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01 Mar 21
12:04
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Date Joined:
14 Jul 09
So what penalty should Gordon Elliott suffer and what will the charge be? Are we all going a bit OTT in our expectancy of the punishment that he will get? Personally I think it will be left the his current connections to decide his fate. Looking at some of the penalties dished out on this side of the water previously.......
Mick Quinn,
In 2001. Was banned by the Jockey Club until 2004 after an inquiry into allegations that he had neglected his horses. A meeting of the Club's disciplinary committee concluded that Quinn's licence to train should be withdrawn for three years.
John Maxse, the Jockey Club public-relations officer, explained that the lengthy ban was because of "the serious nature" of the offence, but at least one fellow trainer was outraged by the severity of a punishment which effectively takes away Quinn's livelihood and may end his training career.
The inquiry was held after complaints were made by a member of the public to the RSPCA over the condition of three horses left out at grass near Quinn's Wantage stables.
David Muir, the RSPCA's equine consultant, said that he was pleased with the way in which the Jockey Club had handled a case which could have been dealt with in court. "We know the Jockey Club has stringent rules over these matters," he said. "This decision fully vindicates the RSPCA's decision to pass over the matter. It's an appropriate punishment and shows that we have an excellent dialogue with the Jockey Club."
The inquiry was held after complaints were made by a member of the public to the RSPCA over the condition of three horses left out at grass near Quinn's Wantage stables.
Richard Hannon, the former champion trainer, said: "It's a disgrace to take a man's living away like that. OK, fine him four or five thousand but to do what they've done seems harsh."
The last trainer to be punished for a similar offence was Viv Aconley, who was fined £2,500 and warned off for five years in October 1998 after the disciplinary committee found that she had kept horses in a "desperate and unacceptable condition". Mrs Aconley did not review her licence ever again.
THE JOCKEY Club, the body responsible for the integrity of racing, yesterday warned off two individuals found guilty of neglecting horses for a total of 15 years. Vivien Aconley, who held a training licence in Yorkshire until the start of this year, was banned for five years and fined pounds 2,500 and Robert Layland, a former permit holder in Lancashire, banned for 10 years, both with immediate effect.
The penalties - Layland's is the longest for mistreatment since Harry Bell was disqualified for 10 years in 1990 - come in the wake of two recent high-profile cases involving cruelty and unnecessary suffering on stud farms in Suffolk and in Wales.
The Jockey Club disciplinary committee, chaired by Christopher Hall, found that Aconley had breached Rule 51 (i), which covers training care and skill, in the case of two juveniles who were removed from her Melrose Farm, Westow, near Malton, in June last year. Veterinary evidence described the horses - a Pharly filly and a Clantime colt - as in "desperate and unacceptable condition, indicative of a significant degree of neglect."
Mick Quinn,
In 2001. Was banned by the Jockey Club until 2004 after an inquiry into allegations that he had neglected his horses. A meeting of the Club's disciplinary committee concluded that Quinn's licence to train should be withdrawn for three years.
John Maxse, the Jockey Club public-relations officer, explained that the lengthy ban was because of "the serious nature" of the offence, but at least one fellow trainer was outraged by the severity of a punishment which effectively takes away Quinn's livelihood and may end his training career.
The inquiry was held after complaints were made by a member of the public to the RSPCA over the condition of three horses left out at grass near Quinn's Wantage stables.
David Muir, the RSPCA's equine consultant, said that he was pleased with the way in which the Jockey Club had handled a case which could have been dealt with in court. "We know the Jockey Club has stringent rules over these matters," he said. "This decision fully vindicates the RSPCA's decision to pass over the matter. It's an appropriate punishment and shows that we have an excellent dialogue with the Jockey Club."
The inquiry was held after complaints were made by a member of the public to the RSPCA over the condition of three horses left out at grass near Quinn's Wantage stables.
Richard Hannon, the former champion trainer, said: "It's a disgrace to take a man's living away like that. OK, fine him four or five thousand but to do what they've done seems harsh."
The last trainer to be punished for a similar offence was Viv Aconley, who was fined £2,500 and warned off for five years in October 1998 after the disciplinary committee found that she had kept horses in a "desperate and unacceptable condition". Mrs Aconley did not review her licence ever again.
THE JOCKEY Club, the body responsible for the integrity of racing, yesterday warned off two individuals found guilty of neglecting horses for a total of 15 years. Vivien Aconley, who held a training licence in Yorkshire until the start of this year, was banned for five years and fined pounds 2,500 and Robert Layland, a former permit holder in Lancashire, banned for 10 years, both with immediate effect.
The penalties - Layland's is the longest for mistreatment since Harry Bell was disqualified for 10 years in 1990 - come in the wake of two recent high-profile cases involving cruelty and unnecessary suffering on stud farms in Suffolk and in Wales.
The Jockey Club disciplinary committee, chaired by Christopher Hall, found that Aconley had breached Rule 51 (i), which covers training care and skill, in the case of two juveniles who were removed from her Melrose Farm, Westow, near Malton, in June last year. Veterinary evidence described the horses - a Pharly filly and a Clantime colt - as in "desperate and unacceptable condition, indicative of a significant degree of neglect."
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Remember thinking at the Quinn case was harsh...... Maybe I just think the best of people..
I think Quinn got off lightly really, knew exactly what he was doing, as did Aconley and Layland.
The problem to start with, is what exactly will GE be charged with? Bringing the sport into disrepute or something equivalent? He hasn't murdered or maimed anyone or anything, what he did was disgusting and undefendable but there is no comparable incident I can think of in the industry for any disciplinary committee to take a lead from.
The problem to start with, is what exactly will GE be charged with? Bringing the sport into disrepute or something equivalent? He hasn't murdered or maimed anyone or anything, what he did was disgusting and undefendable but there is no comparable incident I can think of in the industry for any disciplinary committee to take a lead from.
Michael and Eddie O'Leary, Gordon Elliott's leading owners through their Gigginstown House Stud operation, have given their backing to Elliott in the wake of the controversy over the photo of the trainer sitting on a dead horse.
The O'Learys said on Monday morning that they will continue to support the trainer despite being "deeply disappointed by the unacceptable photo which appeared on social media over the weekend".
Meanwhile, another statement from Cheveley Park Stud, owners of Elliott's unbeaten superstar Envoi Allen among others, will await the outcome of an investigation by the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board before deciding on further action.
The Gigginstown House Stud silks have been carried to victory by Elliott's Tiger Roll in the 2018 and 2019 Grand Nationals, as well as Don Cossack in the 2016 Cheltenham Gold Cup.
Gigginstown house many of their flagship horses with Elliott, including Champion Hurdle hope Abacadabras, Stayers' Hurdle outsider Fury Road, Albert Bartlett fancy Torygraph and Irish Gold Cup winner Delta Work.
'We will continue to support him and his team at Cullentra'
The statement by Michael O'Leary, released to the Racing Post, said: "Eddie and I were deeply disappointed by the unacceptable photo which appeared on social media over the weekend. The care and welfare of all our animals comes first with all our trainers.
"Sadly, from time to time, our horses suffer injuries and/or fatalities and we expect all such cases to be treated with the care and attention they deserve. We have always found that animal welfare comes first, second and third at Cullentra.
"From the facilities, to the brilliant team of people led by Gordon, our horses are trained with no expense spared for their development, welfare and care. We accept that this photograph was a grievous but momentary lapse of judgement by Gordon, and not in keeping with our 15 year experience of his concern for and attention to the welfare of our horses.
"We all make mistakes, and what is important is that we learn from them and ensure we do not repeat them. We accept Gordon's sincere, profound and unreserved apology and we will continue to support him and his team at Cullentra, as they work to recover from this deeply regrettable incident."
Cheveley Park Stud, who have superstars such as Envoi Allen, Sir Gerhard, Quilixios and Malone Road in training with Elliott, will await the outcome of the IHRB investigation before deciding whether horses will remain with the trainer.
The Cheveley Park statement read: "We are truly horrified and dismayed by the photograph doing the rounds on social media however, we will await the official outcome of the investigation by the IHRB, which we trust will be swift, before making any further comment/decisions."
The O'Learys said on Monday morning that they will continue to support the trainer despite being "deeply disappointed by the unacceptable photo which appeared on social media over the weekend".
Meanwhile, another statement from Cheveley Park Stud, owners of Elliott's unbeaten superstar Envoi Allen among others, will await the outcome of an investigation by the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board before deciding on further action.
The Gigginstown House Stud silks have been carried to victory by Elliott's Tiger Roll in the 2018 and 2019 Grand Nationals, as well as Don Cossack in the 2016 Cheltenham Gold Cup.
Gigginstown house many of their flagship horses with Elliott, including Champion Hurdle hope Abacadabras, Stayers' Hurdle outsider Fury Road, Albert Bartlett fancy Torygraph and Irish Gold Cup winner Delta Work.
'We will continue to support him and his team at Cullentra'
The statement by Michael O'Leary, released to the Racing Post, said: "Eddie and I were deeply disappointed by the unacceptable photo which appeared on social media over the weekend. The care and welfare of all our animals comes first with all our trainers.
"Sadly, from time to time, our horses suffer injuries and/or fatalities and we expect all such cases to be treated with the care and attention they deserve. We have always found that animal welfare comes first, second and third at Cullentra.
"From the facilities, to the brilliant team of people led by Gordon, our horses are trained with no expense spared for their development, welfare and care. We accept that this photograph was a grievous but momentary lapse of judgement by Gordon, and not in keeping with our 15 year experience of his concern for and attention to the welfare of our horses.
"We all make mistakes, and what is important is that we learn from them and ensure we do not repeat them. We accept Gordon's sincere, profound and unreserved apology and we will continue to support him and his team at Cullentra, as they work to recover from this deeply regrettable incident."
Cheveley Park Stud, who have superstars such as Envoi Allen, Sir Gerhard, Quilixios and Malone Road in training with Elliott, will await the outcome of the IHRB investigation before deciding whether horses will remain with the trainer.
The Cheveley Park statement read: "We are truly horrified and dismayed by the photograph doing the rounds on social media however, we will await the official outcome of the investigation by the IHRB, which we trust will be swift, before making any further comment/decisions."
He'll get his hands slapped perhaps a fine and a warning as to his future conduct.
I'm surprised but should have know better of Michael and Eddie O'Leary, their continued backing could be a huge influence on the IHRB.
robo will be along with his opinion of Eddie O'Leary, shortly.
It involves Potatoes - and a very large plate.
It involves Potatoes - and a very large plate.
A fine certainly won't be enough as they never seem to means test them anyway. Could you imagine the uproar if he were to be fined 4 or 5 thousand as was suggested By Hannon in the Quinn case, which seemed like a more egregious case than Elliott's?
If its a fine then it has to be £100k, the IRHB has to be seen to make a statement surely?
Its noticeable that Envoi Allen (Cheveley Park) is on a big drift, out from 1.86 to 2.36, maybe someone knows something?
Comparing a spot of outrageous black humour with the evidenced examples of actual cruelty above is a bit daft.
Quinn blocked me on twitter because I pointed out his dire strike rate with 2yo's.
Sensitive soul.
Sensitive soul.
I don't feel qualified to offer a solution tiger, I was pointing out there is no comparison.
Agree with Saddo, deliberate cruelty to a living horse is unforgivable and should lead to loss of license. This is a trifling matter by comparison.
sageform, what punishment would you dish out to GE for this offence, if any?
Its good to see common sense on this thread, most of the others seem to be for hanging Elliot...
For sitting on a dead horse after probably walking a long way carrying 10 stones overweight, nothing. For taking or agreeing to a photo and putting it on social media, 20,000 Euros and a ban from racecourses for a month while allowing the stable to carry on.
Agreed workrider. It has to be dealt with of course, the IRHB has to get the message across that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable but to me a f large fine is more appropriate than hanging the guy out to dry.
There are several layers here. What he did. The wider public perception of what he did. Lastly why the person who had the image decided to release it now.
1 Crass stupid and frankly unreal. He deserves some sort of ban even if for now until the end of the season.
2 I cannot see how he can be allowed to train horses running at Cheltenham or Aintree (imaging the headlines if Tiger Roll were to win the national). There would be nothing relating to great achievement of the horse just wide spread negative publicity for racing that will take decades to regain goodwill. In the last 12 months racing has gained a much better public perception.
3 Why release now. We need to know who released the picture. I assume Betfair etc are looking at accounts laying Elliot horses at Cheltenham or Aintree to see if there are any patterns. It is not like he has trained horses for characters that have been associated with criminal activity before which should not assume anything negative about Gordon Elliot. They or others like them could exploit something like this for financial gains.
1 Crass stupid and frankly unreal. He deserves some sort of ban even if for now until the end of the season.
2 I cannot see how he can be allowed to train horses running at Cheltenham or Aintree (imaging the headlines if Tiger Roll were to win the national). There would be nothing relating to great achievement of the horse just wide spread negative publicity for racing that will take decades to regain goodwill. In the last 12 months racing has gained a much better public perception.
3 Why release now. We need to know who released the picture. I assume Betfair etc are looking at accounts laying Elliot horses at Cheltenham or Aintree to see if there are any patterns. It is not like he has trained horses for characters that have been associated with criminal activity before which should not assume anything negative about Gordon Elliot. They or others like them could exploit something like this for financial gains.
If the IHRB dish out just a fine. Is it possible that the BHA will ban Elliott from running his horses on these shores?
This wasn't some indiscriminate geezer sitting on a dead horse. The horse was in his care and died of a heart attack on the gallops at, I suggest, his bidding. What does the owner of the horse think, or the lad or lass who looked after it? Added to that he appeared to be acting in a celebratory manner, what was that about?
I remember when John Gosden walked down the course, I think it was Ascot, to attend to a stricken horse. I cannot imagine what he is thinking.
Personally I would show him the door. There is no place for that attitude anywhere let alone horseracing. If it was some young lads messing about I would be disgusted and this is several grades worse than that.
I remember when John Gosden walked down the course, I think it was Ascot, to attend to a stricken horse. I cannot imagine what he is thinking.
Personally I would show him the door. There is no place for that attitude anywhere let alone horseracing. If it was some young lads messing about I would be disgusted and this is several grades worse than that.
bigrust, did you really say......... 'and died of a heart attack on the gallops at, I suggest, his bidding??'
Please explain.
Please explain.
so in no particular order in last 24 hrs
absolute certain fake only an absolute moron could believe photo was true
disgusting moronic journo,s at mail publishing a certain fake
disgusting cruelty against animal mob setting up elliott
now someone manipulating the markets
we wait for the next loony theory to absolve GE of something he,s admitted to
absolute certain fake only an absolute moron could believe photo was true
disgusting moronic journo,s at mail publishing a certain fake
disgusting cruelty against animal mob setting up elliott
now someone manipulating the markets
we wait for the next loony theory to absolve GE of something he,s admitted to
Eont on your point 3 I would be confident it has nothing to do with betting, rather someone in the stable who felt let down by GL and it's payback time. The stuff that was out a couple of weeks ago to me seemed like someone who directly/indirectly came out the wrong side of GL's roving eye(pun there not intended to Kate!). When these 'relevations' a couple of weeks ago got little media attention it seems the same source decided to up the ante.
Horse Racing Ireland has said the photograph of Gordon Elliott sitting on a dead horse which appeared on social media over the weekend does a "disservice to the thousands of people who look after their horses on a daily basis".
Elliott is said to be "cooperating fully" with an investigation by the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB) into the image, and HRI said it supports the investigation and will not be making any further comment until it has completed.
The statement from HRI read: "Horse Racing Ireland unreservedly condemns the disturbing photograph that appeared on social media at the weekend.
"This image does not reflect the care, attention and respect that racehorses receive, and does a disservice to the thousands of people who look after their horses on a daily basis. Horse Racing Ireland notes and supports the IHRB investigation into the circumstances around the photograph.
"From a disciplinary perspective, the matter is in process, so any further comment on the matter or the detail of the case at this time would not be appropriate."
Meanwhile, the BHA is "considering its own regulatory options" in response to the controversy.
A statement released on Monday read: "The BHA is appalled by the image that appeared this weekend. We expect all those in our sport to demonstrate respect for horses, on the racecourse, in the training yard, on the gallops, and wherever they have horses in their care.
"People who work in our industry believe their values – of caring for and respecting our horses – have been deeply undermined by this behaviour. On their behalf, and on behalf of all horse-lovers, we say loudly that British horseracing finds this totally unacceptable.
"The BHA is considering its own regulatory options, recognising that the Irish authorities license Mr Elliott and are carrying out their own investigation."
Elliott is said to be "cooperating fully" with an investigation by the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB) into the image, and HRI said it supports the investigation and will not be making any further comment until it has completed.
The statement from HRI read: "Horse Racing Ireland unreservedly condemns the disturbing photograph that appeared on social media at the weekend.
"This image does not reflect the care, attention and respect that racehorses receive, and does a disservice to the thousands of people who look after their horses on a daily basis. Horse Racing Ireland notes and supports the IHRB investigation into the circumstances around the photograph.
"From a disciplinary perspective, the matter is in process, so any further comment on the matter or the detail of the case at this time would not be appropriate."
Meanwhile, the BHA is "considering its own regulatory options" in response to the controversy.
A statement released on Monday read: "The BHA is appalled by the image that appeared this weekend. We expect all those in our sport to demonstrate respect for horses, on the racecourse, in the training yard, on the gallops, and wherever they have horses in their care.
"People who work in our industry believe their values – of caring for and respecting our horses – have been deeply undermined by this behaviour. On their behalf, and on behalf of all horse-lovers, we say loudly that British horseracing finds this totally unacceptable.
"The BHA is considering its own regulatory options, recognising that the Irish authorities license Mr Elliott and are carrying out their own investigation."
There will be an over reaction of course. The PR staff will have a field day and tell us that such behaviour deserves a lifetime training ban, a refund of all training fees for the past 5 years and 20 years in jail.
Whilst we speculate who took the photo and GE obviously knows who did - what would be the reason(s)for doing so unless you had some futuristic thought it might come in handy! And surely just sitting on the horse is crass stupidity from GE and even more rank allowing a photograph to be taken - for what purpose other than causing mischief, though that is much to kind a word!!
There will be an over reaction of course. The PR staff will have a field day and tell us that such behaviour deserves a lifetime training ban, a refund of all training fees for the past 5 years and 20 years in jail. --- That's the least of his worries. I think if CP pull out it will create a chain reaction. I think they may stay for the rest of the season but that will be it for them and new owners may well be tough to find.
The British Horseracing Authority has banned trainer Gordon Elliott from having runners in Britain while Irish racing authorities continue to investigate a photo showing him sat on a dead horse.
The photo emerged on social media over the weekend and Elliott subsequently confirmed its authenticity when issuing an apology in a statement on Sunday evening.
The Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board, responsible for issuing licences to trainers based in Ireland, is conducting its own investigation, but the BHA had said it was also “considering its own regulatory options” and has now acted, barring Elliott from saddling runners at meetings under its jurisdiction until the Irish investigation is concluded.
The statement said: “The British Horseracing Authority (BHA) will not allow the Irish trainer Gordon Elliott to race horses in Britain whilst the Irish authorities investigate an image that appeared on social media over the weekend.
“The BHA, which regulates racing in Britain, will use powers under its own rules to refuse to allow horses trained by Mr Elliott to race in Britain pending consideration of the outcome of the Irish investigation.
“The action taken by the BHA recognises that Mr Elliott is licensed in Ireland, whose regulatory body, the IHRB, is carrying out its own investigation.
“However, Mr Elliott has entered horses to race in Britain, from which point the British Rules of Racing apply to him.
“The decision to refuse to allow horses trained by Mr Elliott to run in Britain is therefore an interim decision which the BHA regards as proportionate in these circumstances.”
Elliott is due to have a number of high-profile runners at the Cheltenham Festival, which begins in just over two weeks time.
The BHA have confirmed that owners will be allowed to transfer their horses to other trainers in order for them to compete in Britain.
The photo emerged on social media over the weekend and Elliott subsequently confirmed its authenticity when issuing an apology in a statement on Sunday evening.
The Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board, responsible for issuing licences to trainers based in Ireland, is conducting its own investigation, but the BHA had said it was also “considering its own regulatory options” and has now acted, barring Elliott from saddling runners at meetings under its jurisdiction until the Irish investigation is concluded.
The statement said: “The British Horseracing Authority (BHA) will not allow the Irish trainer Gordon Elliott to race horses in Britain whilst the Irish authorities investigate an image that appeared on social media over the weekend.
“The BHA, which regulates racing in Britain, will use powers under its own rules to refuse to allow horses trained by Mr Elliott to race in Britain pending consideration of the outcome of the Irish investigation.
“The action taken by the BHA recognises that Mr Elliott is licensed in Ireland, whose regulatory body, the IHRB, is carrying out its own investigation.
“However, Mr Elliott has entered horses to race in Britain, from which point the British Rules of Racing apply to him.
“The decision to refuse to allow horses trained by Mr Elliott to run in Britain is therefore an interim decision which the BHA regards as proportionate in these circumstances.”
Elliott is due to have a number of high-profile runners at the Cheltenham Festival, which begins in just over two weeks time.
The BHA have confirmed that owners will be allowed to transfer their horses to other trainers in order for them to compete in Britain.
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