Bryony Frost bullying investigation

It was a jump jockey from co Clare that I was thinking of.

He's from the West of Ireland, but not Clare.

I'm not sure you can tell the media, the BHA or your Dad to tell the other jockey's to treat you with respect, I think that is earned. This Dunne thing seems like a smokescreen to me.

i think byrony has more than earned respect

won top races most of her weighing room collegues never have , great job at the top stable , only 25 aswell

Agree , and respect is neither here nor there , but undeserved abuse is a nono these days between sexes , whether you like it or not .

Who said she hadn't earned respect or was abused? All I am saying is if, as it appears or sounds like, some people don't respect her they cannot be told to.

Exactly brigust. 
As for Bryony I rated her very highly but being one of those sad, middle-aged old creeps that this forum abhors I'm sure you will all find that understandable!    I don't now though, little cry-baby that she is.  And I fully agree with McCoy's comment about her winning ride in the KG.  Not one of the opposition horses, favs. or otherwise, ran their race that day ( or any sort of a race ) and she had the race made so much more easy to win in that sense.  Any of about twenty jockeys could have given the horse the same ride and that for me was the gist of McCoy's comment.
She's a grass.  Good luck to her - she'll need it.

LoyalHoncho 15 Jan 21 05:09 
Exactly brigust.
As for Bryony I rated her very highly but being one of those sad, middle-aged old creeps that this forum abhors I'm sure you will all find that understandable!  Love  I don't now though, little cry-baby that she is.  And I fully agree with McCoy's comment about her winning ride in the KG.  Not one of the opposition horses, favs. or otherwise, ran their race that day ( or any sort of a race ) and she had the race made so much more easy to win in that sense.  Any of about twenty jockeys could have given the horse the same ride and that for me was the gist of McCoy's comment.
She's a grass.  Good luck to her - she'll need it.

you can kinda get an idea what she must face in her job tbh , for what its woth honcho people are encouraged to speak out about abuse today rather than suffer quietly

We don't know what she faces. She hasn't said yet. Don't always take the side of the accuser imo
They might be full of it.

"She's a grass".......very mature comment.

If it weren't for grass's we'd have murderers and rapists (well more anyway) walking the streets. It's called telling the truth.

If she feels badly done by, she should call it out. I suspect being  a woman in a largely man's world is not easy at all. She's probably put up with loads of stuff over the years.

hello - to use your own phrase, for what it's worth, people today are all very much like you - calling alleged something, something, instead. of alleged something.  And doing it so often that it eventually becomes accepted as the facts before it has even been investigated.  The old phrase still holds good - if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.  As for the allegation of "abuse" this whole situation would appear to have occurred because she "abused" her position as a jockey during a race, "allegedly" causing a horse in close proximity to fall and then suffer death.  So which alleged abuse are you, and everyone else, most concerned with?
She's making a rod for her own back here and in my opinion she shouldn't be.
What does she want to be?  A jockey or a modern day suffragette/revolutionary.

Here's another innuendo word - "suspect" - without the slightest piece of evidence.

@LoyalHoncho -- Any of about twenty jockeys could have given the horse the same ride and that for me was the gist of McCoy's comment.

Expressed like that, it is a truism. If I did exactly what Marcus Rashford did I'd have 50 Premier League goals and a food campaign. If any of the other jockeys had been on Wichita Lineman at Cheltenham and given him the same ride AP did, they'd have won. All jockeys aren't the same.

Frodon was a 20/1 rag. Nicholls was not doing Bryony any favours because he'd put the chaps on the 85/40 and 5/2 shots.

Fair enough Ramruna.  I value your opinion.  Frodon however continually jumped out to his left/veered out to his left to get across the fences, and never once hampered another horse.  That's how easily, in my view,  he was allowed to win by the opposition.

The other factor we might be missing on the bullying front is that she is a woman and therefore more vulnerable. It is a power thing. A woman I know was terrified when a security guard at a supermarket drew his finger across his throat. Men would shake it off (or lamp him). Even "don't do that again" in the right (or wrong) tone of voice can sound like a credible threat from a man to a woman whereas between two men means almost nothing.

Wouldn't like to criticise any NH Jockey..who would ride half a ton of living meat  at 30 miles an hour over a fence....brave as they come...
Bryony is no wallflower, hard as nails. But this is clearly media driven, had her head turned by success and playing up to the woke brigade. Her interviews are now so contrived you worry that Ed Chamberlain has said " let me introduce you to my media training PR coach"

Be interesting to hear Chamberlain's/Fitzgerald's take on this matter ;it'll no doubt be fully discussed tomorrow.

If it is a on going case it wont be.But the BHA could have it on going for years.

needs  a good nights sleep tonight,lil rockerfella takes some stoking and no,s more about the game than frost so wont buy in to any of that dr dolittle shoite

dots up of course

One thing it won't be is "fully discussed by Chamberlin/Fitzgerald" anything controversial will be avoided by Chamberlain and Fitzgerald is about as incisive as Thommo !!

mottershead on moaning line basically saying nothing,
torygraph fear and loathing in the weighing room
frost dad wouldnt put his kids in weighing room now

No point buying the R.P. so , unable to tell us anything until its over according to him...

So what was the point of dragging him away from his baking and knitting just to tell us SFA....and get paid for it too!

Lead on ..

they all no more than us,which suggests this could be big,jimmy frosts remarks back this up,if this was handbags [ no pun intended ] it would be getting burried by media and those involved not getting bigger
torygraph today

I agree BOWLER.  One comment she made was particularly significant for me.  She is becoming a very "prepared agenda" type guest on the Ed Chamberlain product.  Bullied?  You have to laugh.  She's been cossetted in cotton wool and put up on a pedestal by the ruling tv media, that's for sure.

Was she bullied out of it  there I wonder...

read the love in in tomorrows post. 3 observations i made {1}shes says she s not allowed to talk about the bha investigation ,but she still manages to ge plenty of media attention out of it.{2}mccoy was slated for saying anyone could win on it,in the article she says it was one of the most simple races ive ever ridden. {3}she celebrated crossing the line at kemptom to an empty grandstand saying she had an injection of adrenaline ,yet robbie dunne is not allowed any adrenaline after his fall{if that was the incident the bha  were investigating.her dr doolittle persona is very much to the fore in the article. i think it will alienate many racing people.it wont earn her any respect amongst her peers.

@ambush -- Frost says she can't talk about it when Mottershead asked her. Mottershead wrote a very long paragraph (and a half, and the same again at the end) to say Frost had not and could not answer the question. I do not think you can blame her for that. The stuff on Frodon and race-riding is more informative than I've seen from many jockeys. Owls and sisters I could do without.

she would be better served if she had kept her own counsel till the bha has finished its investigation ramruna.i think she is being badly advised.shes courting the media whilst playing the innocent victim{she may be a victim in all of this but let the bha decide . not the darlings of the media}the workplace of a nh jockey is not like any other with all it dangers, i think she will stuggle to get the respect of the weighing room until this investigation is over. once its lost it will be very slow to re establish that respect. i like mark paterson of mountaineer fame who refuses to criticise any jockey during covid.i do admire her riding but do wince when she is been interviewed. im a grumpy middle aged man but was surprised when my 23 yr old daughter and her friend groaned after she passed the post at kempton . they refused to listen to her post race interview.the media would have you believe that this is what the younger generation want to hear post race.

Brough Scott has a piece in today's Times, hard copy, not in the online edition as yet?

One of the things he says is "There is a feeling among respected and non misogynist fellow riders that Frost has a tendency to take other people's ground. That has not helped with her popularity among her peers"

If the criticism of her by fellow jockeys is the same that would be given to any other jockey then I don't see a problem but I suspect that there is more to it than that.

The 'adrenaline' point from Bryony is a very important one. Lots of public faces love the adrenaline but then when everything has died down they suffer from depression. I think there is an element of this here. Bryony is UP when she wins and she cannot stop talking and enthusing but I bet when the interest has cooled she is DOWN. Classic depression signs I have heard.

so we have gone from her being bullied to she is suffering from depression

she depresses me,

I don't know that Gazo but I do know that, apparently, a lot of jockey's do suffer from depression so it could be.

She hasn't gone many days without a winner lately!

Daily Mail going large :
.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9163009/The-golden-girl-British-horse-racing-centre-toxic-row-3-3billion-sport.html

Thanks for the Mail link @The Leopard.

The Mail has no new facts (well, depending on what you already know) but lots of photos, including one of Paul Nicholls hugging Bryony Frost in the winners enclosure in front of a large sign telling everyone to keep 2 metres (or one horse length) apart.

There is also (taken from Twitter) a five-second video loop of the fall for which Robbie Dunne blamed Bryony.

1st time poster    Date Joined: 25 Dec 05
17 Jan 21 11:13Joined: 25 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 44,532 | Blogger: 1st time poster's blog

she depresses me, Sad

interesting race there, at taunton, considering all  that's been said

indeed Daryl - not giving Bryan Carver much room round the bend eh .... surprising no-one else commenting - was it discussed elsewhere?

That is one game horse Yala Enki.

Bryony accused of having to bully Yala Enki!

I think she bullied that Horse in to Winning.

Great minds.

... Great ride imo, Bryonys Knockers seem to have disappeared.

They'll be back as soon as they can, glasgow.
She breaks their hearts

She is good from the front and from behind. Good jockey

True colours showing now...daft cow

One just arrived now .

only thing i will say about bryony frost is i have never seen a jockey precent a race horse to a fence like she does she always gets it so right its as if she gets the horse to go to stride she wants  perfect.And as  a person shes so loveable.

Sexist claptrap.

Agreed,I wonder why they do it Blackbarn,any ideas?

Nope, no idea why she would be singled out.

CHRIS COOK IN GUARDIAN still reporting story ,whether its old news to anyone or new ,todays he writes about
trainer johnny farrely having an argument with frost at uttox
jockey flint who,s father was involved in southwell incident saying frost shouldnt have involved bha what happens in weighing room should stay in weighing room,
and cook hinting whole incident/complaint  might have been dropped

Racing people have some well-established lines to fall back on when faced with a microphone, like the rider who insists they “wouldn’t swap my horse for any of them” when they would clearly prefer to be on the favourite. In similar vein, every jockey is expected to mark the moment of retirement by saying the thing they’ll miss most is the camaraderie of “the weighing room”, a term used literally to describe the place where jockeys are weighed but also figuratively as a collective reference to all jockeys. In either sense, it is generally made to sound like an ideal workplace, full of good humour and mutual support.

That reputation has taken a couple of dents in recent weeks, the result of some pretty dark hints from one of its best-known inhabitants, Bryony Frost, who has evidently had moments of friction with other jump-racing figures. Details have begun to emerge, of a complaint being made about the trainer Johnny Farrelly after a verbal exchange at Uttoxeter in 2019, and of another verbal clash between Frost and the jockey Robbie Dunne at Southwell last September.


Bryony Frost: 'Some people will always frown. Opinions are not facts'
Read more
These and possibly other incidents like them are thought to be what Frost had in mind when she told the Guardian recently: “There are ongoing things that need to be sorted out and there is protection that needs to be given to others. So at the moment I can’t go too much into it. But it’s something I’m going to be trying extremely hard to make better and move forward in a positive way ... I think for our younger generation there are things that must be improved.”

The two incidents were reported to the British Horseracing Authority and may still lead to hearings, or may have been quietly dropped; the sport’s ruling body won’t say. Whether Frost herself complained is unknown but any official involvement is beyond the pale for some, as one still-young retired rider, Rhys Flint, tweeted: “Bad form going to the BHA ... say what you have to say, take it on the chin, move forward”. While some protested, his tweet was liked by a number of current jockeys, trainers and stable staff, who appear to agree that what happens in the weighing room should stay there.

To some extent, that attitude reflects a feeling that racing’s internal disputes are best kept out of the public eye, for fear the nuances, motivations and daily realities in this odd little world will never be understood by outsiders. But it also suggests nostalgia for a simpler, rougher time of long-gone decades, when, if a steward stumbled across jockeys trading punches, he was expected to forget it immediately and close the door quietly behind him. The late Ginger McCain described the weighing room of those days as “a man’s domain ... You had that smell of men’s bodies, sweaty and masculine. The toilet was a bucket in the corner that never got emptied until it was full”.

Modern plumbing could just about be taken for granted by the 1980s, when Peter Scudamore was the dominant champion jump jockey, but perhaps the prevailing mood had not changed much. He once reflected: “When you go back to it, it was a ruffian sport of very, very tough men, and it’s hard to get rid of that completely. It’s always going to be there.”

National Hunt jockey Peter Scudamore reading a newspaper in the weighing room as jockeys wait for their next race in 1988.
National Hunt jockey Peter Scudamore reading a newspaper in the weighing room as jockeys wait for their next race in 1988. Photograph: Chris Smith/Popperfoto/Getty Images
Scudamore keeps in touch with the weighing room as an employer of jockeys at the Kinross stable of his partner, Lucinda Russell, and through the exploits of his son, Tom. He sees it as a “surprisingly non-violent space, for the level of competition” and can recall seeing only a handful of fights, but stands up for a jockey’s right to speak their mind plainly to their rivals.

“When I was riding, the older jockeys didn’t like amateurs ... because they didn’t keep straight. When you go out to ride, it’s a risk. You weigh up those risks and say, look, given reasonable luck, I can get this horse round. But you add somebody who’s wobbling all over the place or taking you along at too strong a pace, it adds to the danger and people don’t like it. It’s affecting their ability to earn a living and the welfare of the horse.”

Scudamore, an admirer of Frost’s skills in the saddle, did not want to comment on the specifics of her reported troubles but the importance of keeping straight is thought to have been a factor in her clash with Dunne. Her mount, Wisecracker, persistently edged left as he jumped round Southwell and may, at a late fence, have contributed to the fatal fall of Dunne’s mount, Cillian’s Well.

Was Frost at fault for allowing Wisecracker to move away from the rail between fences? Or does blame lie with Dunne for trying to move up the inside of a horse who had been jumping that way? Opinion is divided and neither jockey has yet addressed the issue in public. Cillian’s Well was trained by John Flint, whose son, Rhys, later tweeted his complaint about involving the BHA.

While there is no suggestion Frost made a deliberate manoeuvre on Wisecracker, nipping up another jockey’s inside has long been seen as a rude and provocative act which has led to reprisals on occasion, including at last year’s Cheltenham Festival, where the crack Irish amateur Jamie Codd earned a six-day ban. Scudamore got a three-week ban for his furious reaction when Bruce Dowling did it to him at Newbury, and recalls another occasion when he was on the receiving end, being put through the rails by a northern‑based jockey defending his patch.

“I went mad but I was the idiot for poking up his inner. He was saying, don’t come up to Cartmel, being cocky. And you respect that. You’ve got to stamp your authority.”

It may colour Frost’s relationship with her fellow jockeys that she appears to have some reputation for jealously guarding the inner, which is certainly no sin in the eyes of her employers or any punter who may have sided with her mount. She got a two-day ban in her moment of greatest triumph, having allowed Frodon to interfere with a rival on the final bend on their way to winning the King George on Boxing Day.

Bryony Frost riding Frodon (right) clear the last to win the King George VI Chase at Kempton Park in December 2020.
Bryony Frost riding Frodon (right) on their way to victory in the King George VI Chase at Kempton Park in December 2020. Photograph: Alan Crowhurst/PA
But that little dose of official trouble was a rarity for Frost, the BHA confirming last week that she has just one other finding of interference against her, a two-day ban handed out by the Plumpton stewards in 2018. It is a record to be proud of, after more than 1,200 rides, and undermines any suggestion she is doing anything wrong on the track.

Some observers fear Frost is, at least in part, a victim of jealousy from riders who do not get the same number of chances in major races, who allow themselves to be rubbed up the wrong way by her free‑form emoting in TV interviews, so different from the reserved stoicism that most jump jockeys favour. Is there a residual chauvinist element at play? Whether a different woman in her situation would have a similar experience is hard to know, because for now she is the only one in the top 40 and, at age 25, already holds the British record for wins by a female jump jockey.

Bryony Frost looks to the skies as she is surrounded by the press after her win on Frodon in the Ryanair Chase at the 2019 Cheltenham Festival.
Bryony Frost looks to the skies as she is surrounded by the press after her win on Frodon in the Ryanair Chase at the 2019 Cheltenham Festival. Photograph: Pat Healy/racingfotos.com/Shutterstock
But there are other women getting regular work at a slightly less exalted level, including Bridget Andrews and Page Fuller, while youngsters such as Lilly Pinchin and Millie Wonnacott are building enviable reputations. Wonnacott, who won the Somerset National with a finely judged ride last week, has had a reassuringly straightforward experience to this point.

“Personally, I’ve had no trouble in the weighing room,” she says. “I’ve never experienced any problems whatsoever. Some people get verbal. But to me that’s just sport in general. You’re going to get that anywhere. We’re all trying to do our best, we’re all competitive. Some things get said in the heat of the moment and it’s brushed off within five minutes in most situations. It’s very rare that I would come across a fight or a serious argument. Everyone lets them get on with it and the next moment it’s all over.”

There would rarely be more than three women at the races on the same day but a good relationship exists among those happy few, Wonnacott reports. “We’re like one big happy family, us girls. We all get on. There’s absolutely no bad blood between any of us.”

She makes the point that, in the Covid era, all jockeys see less of each other, with changing rooms spaced apart through every grandstand and everyone under instruction not to linger after their last ride of the day. As a result, a troubled jockey may feel more isolated than in normal times.

Plenty of help is available for any jockey having a hard time, through their trade association or the Injured Jockeys Fund, which routinely helps riders struggling with pressures on their mental health. Those pressures often revolve around exhaustion, the constant need to travel and to lose weight, to compete and succeed, as well as financial concerns.

But the IJF’s chief executive, Lisa Hancock, reports that bullying in the weighing room, or anything resembling it, has never crossed their radar. “I can’t recall any support we have given specific to challenges they’re experiencing in the weighing room,” she says.

“We’ve got pretty good dialogue with a significant number of jockeys in all parts of the country now and lots of them stay with us, at Oaksey House or Jack Berry House; there are injured jockeys staying at both those places right now. They become a bit of an extended family to the team at the centres. I would hope that if there were concerns, they would come out in those kinds of environment, when it’s quite relaxed.”

Brian Hughes, Britain’s champion jump jockey, is satisfied that the weighing room still deserves a good reputation. “I’ve never felt there’s anything to worry about. There’s a good mix of people, boys and girls, and plenty of older figures who are more than welcoming to the younger generation.

“If there was a jockey unlucky to get a fall or get injured, then you see people’s true colours come out and everyone wants to do their bit. You know someone’s going to help you out, whether it be a colleague or a valet.”

What would he say to the parent of some horse-mad teenager, with their sights set on jockeyship but worried about those recent reports? “There’s absolutely no reason to fear. This is a dream for us all. I would say to anyone who wants to pursue this dream to kick on and do it. There’s absolutely nothing to worry about.”

Having read that I am more surer now that Frost is a little touchy to say the least, Dad Jimmy asking the question would you allow your Daughter become a jockey and be attacked verbally like this etc, well out there in the real World people from All walks of life suffer that , the nicest person in the World has a bad day now and again and expresses their feelings verbally, someone needs to tell Jimmy that it seems. Everyone one of us have experienced that terrible moment when someone decides to vent their anger , its simply called living life.

Haven't read all of this thread but has anyone mentioned the alleged fisticuffs in the jockeys room some years ago between Sophie Doyle and Kirsty Milczarek?

say it again all this was when frost was struggling for rides,winners and a KG victory looked a distant dream,its now soured her dreram victory and she,s probably striving to put the genie back in the bottle

When discussing the plan for the ride, Nicholl's and Frost would have nailed down the easy pace that she'd set and how it would be the best way to win the race.

Nicholl's main thoughts though would be that it would also suit Cyrname with his stamina concerns and that is what the main reason for Frodon even being in there would have been IMO

It was a good ride with the plan carried out but it wasn't a great tactical masterclass, she set a steady pace and wasn't pressed on the lead, it gets overblown because the jockey was a bird.

Based on the Guardian article @posy posted, though we talk about the weighing room, presumably the lady riding grooms get changed somewhere else, in which case, after any hypothetical row in the corridor about who went up whose inner, Dunne would have had a load of blokes around him moving the conversation on to something else, whereas Frost would have been left on her own to brood on it.

Is that plausible?

Ramruma , thats beside the point ,imo Frost is basically saying its because shes a Woman that this happened , I'd say no its because Dunne felt it could have been a Man and he would have said the same thing and maybe even a little stronger.Here we have a situation were Frost wants to be treated as a jockey for Work purposes but like a Woman when it comes to verbals .Thats only my opinion, I have two Daughters myself and would be the first to back them if I felt they were been bullied unfairly but when the real World asks them questions hopefully they can stand up for themselves after all we are all supposed to be equal now, do you set separate standards for male and female jockeys or is it all inclusive...

@workrider -- the point was that if the two jockeys had different environments, only one surrounded by supportive workmates, might that explain why this exploded, leaving aside the merits of what happened on the racecourse? I do not know if that is the case in these socially-distanced times but it would not surprise me if it was a factor.

workrider as you well know,life as we live in is not equal.1 in 4 domestic abuse victims are men,but we are fed only females could be victims.I urge you to watch a Danish film(subtitled) was on Film 4 last week something like guilty  or perhaps The Guilty and it gets the mind thinking perhaps how B Frost has used and abused male jocks.

She may be using one incident to warn off the others but none of this detracts from her ability imo and Frodon is just a high profile example of what she is doing several times each week (at least when there is any racing on). Admiral Barratry was the latest example of her winning when all looked lost.

Ramruma , weather she is sitting alone or with her fellow Lady jockeys is not the point, she feels she is the victim full stop, has she never exploded herself on track during a race, I'd say its quite common in the helter skelter of everyday race riding, next time you get a chance pop down to the last fence with several coming to it with a chance, I can assure you its not their prayers they're saying.
Sageform , nobody is denying shes got talent .
San Quentin, I play golf with a friend who is getting on in years and his wife beats him up, so I know exactly where you're coming from.The thing is he's to scared of her to do anything about it...

Jesus workrider , you are still some man for the stories , you haven’t lost it . Man is getting on in years , but is still able to play golf , and the wife is beating him up , what a load of absolute shiite. Remember when you sorted out the Greek fella who had the restaurant years ago , I think he was going out with the daughter .

workrider, several on here have doubted her talent and believe she only gets good rides because of her dad and because she is a girl. We all know that racing is a reactionary sport in many ways ands I am quite sure that there are still jockeys, trainers and owners who don't approve of professional female jockeys at all. It is changing but it has not gone away.

I think you have summed up the situation pretty well there sageform.

Absolute rubbish , Bryony Frost , Hollie Doyle , Rachel Blackmore are as good , if not better than 90% of their male counterparts . There is no bias against women jockeys in this day and age , the only bias could possibly be from disgruntled male riders who haven’t the ability to stop losing mounts to their female colleagues .

sageform, I see where you are coming from , Paul has used some mediocre  jockeys over the years but has learnt to his cost and has brought in a better lot these past few years. It would be really old school trainers who would be of that mindset and there are very few of them around. Rachel is one of the best jockeys I have ever seen so I have no problem with lady jockeys. Its a tough life been a jockey what with travelling ,riding early work , wasting etc, put all those together and show me the man or woman who wouldn't expel a few expletives.

robo 02 Feb 21 11:05 
Absolute rubbish , Bryony Frost , Hollie Doyle , Rachel Blackmore are as good , if not better than 90% of their male counterparts . There is no bias against women jockeys in this day and age , the only bias could possibly be from disgruntled male riders who haven’t the ability to stop losing mounts to their female colleagues .




Plenty of bias on this forum towards women jockeys by some of the people.

your judging apples and pears,frost isnt riding 30 horses a week so isnt getting questioned,critiqued on 27/28 losing rides like the so called top jocks are,to use the KG as an example of a great jock is plainly ridiculous as it was an artform/case study of the term a race falling apart
she was on the stables 4th choice as said above a front runner who any jock in the country could have giving a decent ride to,what happened behind had nothing to do with jock on winner

That’s absolute shiite, what happens behind is invariably directly related to the front runner . Bold jumping front runners frequently force errors out of opponents , and win races as a result of that . Also front runners frequently put chasing jockeys in a stew as to when they should make inroads and also as to how much they have left in front . It’s a combination of good jockeys in front abs thick ones behind which shape results

makes you wonder why 99% of so called best trainers ,jocks,owners all want a lead, but thar ya go

so you think pumpkin told frost to ride a race to disadvantage cyrname and CDO,

99% of all so called best  trainers do not want a lead , that is absolute drivel . How many times do Willie Mullins horses not be ridden prominently particularly at the shorter distances , why are front runners a lot shorter in running than their price at the start of a race ?, did you ever think of that by any chance ?. Frost rode her horse to maximise her chance of winning , if that was disadvantageous to cyrname , then so be it . Henry de bromhead another trainer who’s horses are always up in the van , who are these 99% you are in about ?

Ist time poster gone to sleep by the looks of things

If frodon's MO was that he had to do a Native River type ride in order to win his races and set a scorching pace he wouldn't have even been in the race.

I bet if Nicholl's would reveal it, he'd tell you that he was in there primarily because he would hopefully protect Cyrname's iffy stamina and set the race up for him.

The fact that this style of racing, if the other two flopped, would see Frodon in his best light and provide a hopeful fallback was a fortunate bonus and made him an ideal participant for the stable.

1st time poster 02 Feb 21 14:10 
your judging apples and pears,frost isnt riding 30 horses a week so isnt getting questioned,critiqued on 27/28 losing rides like the so called top jocks are

Agree, and furthermore, and particularly so now, she would not get criticised when she does ride a poor race because they'd all be frightened to death to say a word against her.

Frodon was ridden in a way to benefit him,
not any other horse.

Exactly Penzance, the notion that he was there as some sort of pacemaker is absolutely preposterous. The big trainers regularly run more than one horse in big races , and the notion that one is ridden to benefit another is a fanciful one . When denman took out kauto star in that vintage gold cup , he wasn’t ridden to protect the stamina of kauto star

robo,

Of course Denman wasn't there for that, that's because he was in there in his own right and his style of racing wouldn't help KS anyway, the opposite in fact, Kauto would just have to deal with it.

Frodon's style of racing would have aided Cyrname, if that horse was what they thought he was and that in no way would have been lost on Nicholl's, it's fanciful to think otherwise.

Why would Frodons style of racing suit cyrname ?, that’s a load of rubbish .

why would a front runner aid that of
another who like to front run?
Especailly one with suspect stamina.

Never mind

Exactly Penzance , never mind from that other clown then , when he realises he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about . Another conspiracy theorist gone to ground

He's a front runner that sets a steady pace that helps protect the stamina of his better fancied stablemate in behind, you seem to think that being a front runner "per se" busts the theory without considering the really very fundamental part of the pace being set

Allying the style of a pace set by Denman to that set by Frodon was a good one though, you almost got me there

So the jockeys on horses like lostintranslation and Santini are going to let frost set a slow pace for cyrname , and counteract their own chances . Ya that’s a very likely scenario .

But they did let her set the pace she wanted didn't they! The fact that Santini, yes Santini, was cruising along in second sows just how steady the pace was, around Kempton he should have been the first one off the bridle.

that's right, they danced to her tune.

I don’t get the around kempton bit , I can’t remember the last horse to win a king George who didn’t stay 3m somewhere else . They were obviously happy it wasn’t a crawl , otherwise they’d have pressured the pace .

Look, it's a fact she set a steady pace, that suited her horse, there's no denying that and Nicholl's knew that that might provide a decent fallback if plan A failed.....but....whether he would admit it or not, he also knew that Frodon up front would help plan A, that's all I'm saying.

The time was 10.87 secs faster than the course average , so it was a fast run race . You are the only one saying it was a steady pace

perhaps he had plan A,B,C & D,cos
he did have 4 in the race.Do you
think Frodon's owner wants his horse
to set the race up for others.?

We see it all the time though, horses that don't tend to make the pace, all waiting for someone else to pick up the baton and then no-one does and it ends up like this. It may have been a different scenario had Monalee rocked up, I bet Nicholl's had a big smile on his face when he became a N/R. The whole picture of this race changed when he didn't turn up.

Monalee did'nt run,you can say
that about any race when certain horses
don't run.