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21 Dec 20
14:38
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25 Aug 05
yeah, she needs a 5 pound female allowance
awful stats/science from the "great" man. he's a moron.
awful stats/science from the "great" man. he's a moron.
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Kevin is anything but, a very clever man who makes the game pay...
And he definitely reads The Betfair Forum, you will be in his bad books now Charlton.
Agree with workrider ;ridiculous to refer to KB in such manner. If he's a moron 99.5% of the racing world must be sub moronic.........
acey deucy
Date Joined: 29 Sep 02
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21 Dec 20 16:15
Joined: 29 Sep 02 | Topic/replies: 21,570 | Blogger: acey deucy's blog
And he definitely reads The Betfair Forum, you will be in his bad books now Charlton.
that's ok
Date Joined: 29 Sep 02
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21 Dec 20 16:15
Joined: 29 Sep 02 | Topic/replies: 21,570 | Blogger: acey deucy's blog
And he definitely reads The Betfair Forum, you will be in his bad books now Charlton.
that's ok
posy
Date Joined: 18 Oct 03
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21 Dec 20 16:56
Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 13,002 | Blogger: posy's blog
Agree with workrider ;ridiculous to refer to KB in such manner. If he's a moron 99.5% of the racing world must be sub moronic.........
like guliani, I exaggerate a bit. my point is, don't accept anything he says. or the classic, do the work yourself.
Date Joined: 18 Oct 03
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21 Dec 20 16:56
Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 13,002 | Blogger: posy's blog
Agree with workrider ;ridiculous to refer to KB in such manner. If he's a moron 99.5% of the racing world must be sub moronic.........
like guliani, I exaggerate a bit. my point is, don't accept anything he says. or the classic, do the work yourself.
He is anything but a moron.You should read his blog from the 16 of December Charlton a excellent piece.He thinks outside the box and is not a sheep.
just trying to confirm his public record and found this. no idea what it means but anyone who has documented "I don't need a job" tipping qulity, be keen to see it
KEVIN BLAKE is employed by Attheraces, ITV and betfair and has become a extremely well known tipping voice in UK and Irish Racing. He is a noted breeder and Joseph O'Brien's race planner. Shrewd and worth listening too, if only as a gauge to the response of irish trained handicap marks in the Festival. When Kevin talks, people listen. Kevin's antepost tips on the Attheraces site didn't fire in 2020. He had two solid lays at Graham's Belfast Preview Night Carefully Selected and Champ. Pictured with an old goat at Graham's Belfast Preview 2nd March 2020. A pleasure to meet.
KEVIN BLAKE is employed by Attheraces, ITV and betfair and has become a extremely well known tipping voice in UK and Irish Racing. He is a noted breeder and Joseph O'Brien's race planner. Shrewd and worth listening too, if only as a gauge to the response of irish trained handicap marks in the Festival. When Kevin talks, people listen. Kevin's antepost tips on the Attheraces site didn't fire in 2020. He had two solid lays at Graham's Belfast Preview Night Carefully Selected and Champ. Pictured with an old goat at Graham's Belfast Preview 2nd March 2020. A pleasure to meet.
nothing?
so either he makes his money in private (yet still chooses to work) or he doesn't actually make the game pay (as we on here would interpret that phrase)
so either he makes his money in private (yet still chooses to work) or he doesn't actually make the game pay (as we on here would interpret that phrase)
Irish Whisper is going to have Charlton's Jacobs....
He makes the game pay because he breeds, is a race planner and is employed by organizations involved in racing.
Racing is the game and it pays him, that's how he makes the game pay.
He makes the game pay in as much as a stall handler makes the game pay as it's the industry he is part of.
Any suggestion that he makes the game pay in the sense of the phrase that immediately springs to mind, i.e. betting, only a full disclosure of his betting records over a lengthy period of time would clarify that.
Racing is the game and it pays him, that's how he makes the game pay.
He makes the game pay in as much as a stall handler makes the game pay as it's the industry he is part of.
Any suggestion that he makes the game pay in the sense of the phrase that immediately springs to mind, i.e. betting, only a full disclosure of his betting records over a lengthy period of time would clarify that.
suppose youve got to be in the middle of it to get the inside word......sort of chicken and the egg scenario
Duffy , Chariton, he wrote a book outlining EVERY bet he made in a year and returned a profit, to me that's making it pay. Well worth a read lads...
I've been trying to buy his book in paperback or hardback but it's unavailable on Amazon ( kindle only ) and can't find it anywhere else....anyone know where i can buy a copy?
Will have a look Grayhawk and if I can find it will post it to you free of charge as a Christmas present ...
That's very kind of you Workrider...i'll make a small donation to the IJF in appreciation
Sorry mate can't find it , think I could have given it to a friend, if A.Ps auto is any good to you will pop them over also a old copy of Alex Bird auto .
No problem Workrider thanks for looking anyway....I've no interest in APs book and i already have Birds.
Just to say you can read kindle books on Amazon's free kindle apps for desktops, tablets and (presumably) phones; you do not need to buy a kindle device.
Amazon page for kindle apps, including download button for PCs and Macs.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/kindle-dbs/fd/kcp
https://www.amazon.co.uk/kindle-dbs/fd/kcp
There is also a kindle cloud reader, if you do not want to install an app.
https://read.amazon.co.uk/
https://read.amazon.co.uk/
He doesn't seem to understand how to h'cap horses going by his Irish h'cappers at Chelt article.
I've only seen him tip a few on channel 4 and he wasn't good.
I look forward to reading anything of his, though, always interesting.
Thought his article on too many graded races was spot on.
I've only seen him tip a few on channel 4 and he wasn't good.
I look forward to reading anything of his, though, always interesting.
Thought his article on too many graded races was spot on.
Souldancer read his latest blog, makes a huge amount of sense...
Workrider,
yes, i'd agree with most of that except about novice chase grade 1's ending by the end of february.
He seems to be fighting a lone battle, no other journalists on the case.
Fair play he's always a good read.
yes, i'd agree with most of that except about novice chase grade 1's ending by the end of february.
He seems to be fighting a lone battle, no other journalists on the case.
Fair play he's always a good read.
cloone river
21 Dec 20 17:59
Joined: 23 Dec 04 | Topic/replies: 771 | Blogger: cloone river's blog
What makes you think he is a moron Charlton?
in short, his claim that female jockeys needed a 5 lbs claim to be the equal of a male
in long, the "scientific" basis for that claim which he tried to get across on TV. it became evident quite quickly that he has not taken any university level courses in statistics
ergo, the danger is that he speaks well (like Reagan) and has knowledge in some areas of racing and hence people believe the assertion he makes is based in data/science. it isn't.
21 Dec 20 17:59
Joined: 23 Dec 04 | Topic/replies: 771 | Blogger: cloone river's blog
What makes you think he is a moron Charlton?
in short, his claim that female jockeys needed a 5 lbs claim to be the equal of a male
in long, the "scientific" basis for that claim which he tried to get across on TV. it became evident quite quickly that he has not taken any university level courses in statistics
ergo, the danger is that he speaks well (like Reagan) and has knowledge in some areas of racing and hence people believe the assertion he makes is based in data/science. it isn't.
returned a profit,
so did I but I still work. how much profit did he make?
so did I but I still work. how much profit did he make?
workrider
21 Dec 20 22:47
Joined: 29 Jun 02 | Topic/replies: 29,038 | Blogger: workrider's blog
Duffy , Chariton, he wrote a book outlining EVERY bet he made in a year and returned a profit, to me that's making it pay. Well worth a read lads...
(1) anyone proof these bets or are they all aftertimed?
(2) 1 year, hows he done in other years?
21 Dec 20 22:47
Joined: 29 Jun 02 | Topic/replies: 29,038 | Blogger: workrider's blog
Duffy , Chariton, he wrote a book outlining EVERY bet he made in a year and returned a profit, to me that's making it pay. Well worth a read lads...
(1) anyone proof these bets or are they all aftertimed?
(2) 1 year, hows he done in other years?
I think he says things that are a little too much for many, he's blog last week about throwing out the programme and starting from scratch is simply brilliant . He has been saying for years that it only profits the few rather than the many is becoming more obvious every day..Races that have usually 4.or 5 with one of them been odds on is simply no good for the sport. As a racing man who does racing nearly every day when possible and has seen some of the greats both here and in the U.K. I find it mind numbing to see the same trainers frighten away those horses that could possibly challenge theirs . Yes seeing the best taking on the best is brilliant but in all honesty how often does it happen...I fully agree with Kevin its time for real change...
workrider. he evidently thinks a lot about racing/breeding/admin/betting and maybe he has some good big picture ideas. my point is that when it comes to detail and statistical logic, he is sorely lacking. and worse than that he covers it over with "fluff".
in terms of the 5 lbs allowance for female jockeys...how in your view would we go about proving that this was the right way to go? I'll save you some time. There isnt one. But he makes you belive there is.
in terms of the 5 lbs allowance for female jockeys...how in your view would we go about proving that this was the right way to go? I'll save you some time. There isnt one. But he makes you belive there is.
Chatiton, I just think he makes valid points re racing,I would be a traditionalist and hate change but he gets me thinking , if i'm really honest i still think many women riders are lacking in certain areas , not all are Rachel's or Hollies so maybe some do need a helping hand. It begs the question as a owner would you want them riding your horse. Listening to Catt yesterday at Ling you'd think Holly was the second coming the way he described her winning ride, yet not a mention of her poor one .
maybe they need a helping hand...maybe they don't. my point is that it is not possible to determine.
You know a lot more than me re the subject Chariton, I just try and keep an open mind.
as a simple of example of what he is suggesting.
two car tyre manufacturers claim their tyres are "superior" to the other
we test the tyres on say 50 different makes of car with the same cars, same drivers, same weather conditions, same routes. The difference in wear of the tyres is thus down to the tyre, not the make of car, not the driver, not the weather, not the route.
This example is trivial yet there will still be arguments over the results.
now in blakes example, the tyres are the jockeys and the makes of car are the horses. you should be able to see where this is going. somehow blake doesn't.
two car tyre manufacturers claim their tyres are "superior" to the other
we test the tyres on say 50 different makes of car with the same cars, same drivers, same weather conditions, same routes. The difference in wear of the tyres is thus down to the tyre, not the make of car, not the driver, not the weather, not the route.
This example is trivial yet there will still be arguments over the results.
now in blakes example, the tyres are the jockeys and the makes of car are the horses. you should be able to see where this is going. somehow blake doesn't.
Hi Charlton,
It isn't clear from your various comments whether you have read the article I wrote on this subject or just watched discussions relating to it on television, but just in case you haven't read it, here it is: https://www.attheraces.com/blogs/kevin-blake/05-August-2019/time-to-introduc... I'm not sure if links can be posted on the forum these days or not, but if that doesn't work, a Google search of "kevin blake at the races female jockey allowance" will bring the article up in the first result.
Whether or not you agree with the suggestion the article makes, I would take issue with your contention that my views on this issue lack detail or statistical support, as I went to great lengths to harvest and contextualise the data that is reproduced in that article.
On a more general point, I will never have an issue with you or anyone else disagreeing with what I write or say, it's a game of opinions and my views are often contrarian. However, the name calling etc in multiple threads is unnecessary.
Happy Xmas to you and everyone else that reads this.
All the best.
It isn't clear from your various comments whether you have read the article I wrote on this subject or just watched discussions relating to it on television, but just in case you haven't read it, here it is: https://www.attheraces.com/blogs/kevin-blake/05-August-2019/time-to-introduc... I'm not sure if links can be posted on the forum these days or not, but if that doesn't work, a Google search of "kevin blake at the races female jockey allowance" will bring the article up in the first result.
Whether or not you agree with the suggestion the article makes, I would take issue with your contention that my views on this issue lack detail or statistical support, as I went to great lengths to harvest and contextualise the data that is reproduced in that article.
On a more general point, I will never have an issue with you or anyone else disagreeing with what I write or say, it's a game of opinions and my views are often contrarian. However, the name calling etc in multiple threads is unnecessary.
Happy Xmas to you and everyone else that reads this.
All the best.
and to you. i'll have a look at the article. the name calling is meant to balance out the almost godlike following that you have. it is obvs not personal.
the data presented are at too high a level to determine the cause of the difference in strike rates. one suggestion is that it may be owing to experience (among a host of others) and the article comments as follows;
The stated aim of this brave and pioneering move was to incentivise owners and trainers to give more opportunities to female jockeys who had historically struggled to make a meaningful impact in French racing. The underlying hope was that increased numbers of rides for female jockeys would give them more opportunity to improve their skills on the job and develop into successful professional riders.
so once their skill level has improved, do we take the allowance away? When do we deem them to have improved sufficiently? (another impossible question to answer).
The stated aim of this brave and pioneering move was to incentivise owners and trainers to give more opportunities to female jockeys who had historically struggled to make a meaningful impact in French racing. The underlying hope was that increased numbers of rides for female jockeys would give them more opportunity to improve their skills on the job and develop into successful professional riders.
so once their skill level has improved, do we take the allowance away? When do we deem them to have improved sufficiently? (another impossible question to answer).
having read the article, maybe I have misunderstood your focus. if the aim is simply to level the playing field through affirmative action policies then this will be fine. however I think (and I think the vast majority think the same, especially women who are against the policy) the focus is actually based on an assumption that there is a difference relevant capabilities of the sexes. If the latter, this is unprovable.
i wouldn't say he has a god like following, personally i prefer to read views that don't always follow the mainstream from people that have a real love of the sport , not that fussed whether i agree with them tbh, just whether they open up an interesting debate or ask questions some are too politically aware to ask, the latter we seem to have in abundance sadly
Dec 23, 2020 -- 1:49PM, Charlton2005 wrote:
having read the article, maybe I have misunderstood your focus. if the aim is simply to level the playing field through affirmative action policies then this will be fine. however I think (and I think the vast majority think the same, especially women who are against the policy) the focus is actually based on an assumption that there is a difference relevant capabilities of the sexes. If the latter, this is unprovable.
Do you think female horses should receive a weight allowance against their male counterparts?
I am opposed to weight allowances of all kinds.* Let the jockeys and horses find their own level.
The Arc.for example, has been hugely in favour of 3 year olds especially fillies over the years.
The argument in favour is that if there were no allowances they wouldn't enter, only older horses
would run in certain events such as the Arc. The counter to that is the top 3 year olds might stay
in training for another year.
* apart from apprentices.
The Arc.for example, has been hugely in favour of 3 year olds especially fillies over the years.
The argument in favour is that if there were no allowances they wouldn't enter, only older horses
would run in certain events such as the Arc. The counter to that is the top 3 year olds might stay
in training for another year.
* apart from apprentices.
Oh, and why should an experienced female jockey say Hayley Turner or Hollie Doyle be able to enjoy
the same weight allowance as a 5lb apprentice? Would female apprentices start out on a 12lb
allowance?
the same weight allowance as a 5lb apprentice? Would female apprentices start out on a 12lb
allowance?
Is this an idea whose time has come and gone?
The statistics in Blake's article are unconvincing mainly because they are unsurprising. If you gave any group of jockeys, left-handers for instance, an allowance you'd expect them to be used more and win more. That is how allowances work. If they gave Frankie Dettori a 5lbs allowance, we'd be straight onto Oddschecker for next season's championship prices.
A decade or two ago, perhaps we were looking at how to get more women jockeys, and perhaps Alex & Emma's prominence in the early days of the all-weather was a false dawn but nowadays women no longer stand out on a card. There are still some trainers who hold out but progress now is steady enough on the Flat and over the Jumps, in Britain and Ireland. If the woke police are watching racing, they might be more concerned at the paucity of BAME and openly gay jockeys. Especially Asian, perhaps, given the number of grooms from the subcontinent.
My impression is that, right now, extra measures to boost women jockeys are not needed. If they are needed, then I'd favour more direct action, such as imposing a minimum quota on large stables (or owners) rather than mess around with indirect measures like allowances.
The statistics in Blake's article are unconvincing mainly because they are unsurprising. If you gave any group of jockeys, left-handers for instance, an allowance you'd expect them to be used more and win more. That is how allowances work. If they gave Frankie Dettori a 5lbs allowance, we'd be straight onto Oddschecker for next season's championship prices.
A decade or two ago, perhaps we were looking at how to get more women jockeys, and perhaps Alex & Emma's prominence in the early days of the all-weather was a false dawn but nowadays women no longer stand out on a card. There are still some trainers who hold out but progress now is steady enough on the Flat and over the Jumps, in Britain and Ireland. If the woke police are watching racing, they might be more concerned at the paucity of BAME and openly gay jockeys. Especially Asian, perhaps, given the number of grooms from the subcontinent.
My impression is that, right now, extra measures to boost women jockeys are not needed. If they are needed, then I'd favour more direct action, such as imposing a minimum quota on large stables (or owners) rather than mess around with indirect measures like allowances.
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