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28 Aug 20 12:31
Date Joined: 09 Mar 03
| Topic/replies: 10,904 | Blogger: howard's blog
can someone post the piece please ?
Pause Switch to Standard View What can we learn from pro backers ?
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Report ItsMeSwaddle August 28, 2020 12:53 PM BST
What we can learn from pro punters?
Report ItsMeSwaddle August 28, 2020 12:54 PM BST
Sorry if not Laugh
t is easy to lump punters together as a single group, but if you are friends with more than a handful of fellow travellers you will know that is too simplistic.

Recreational betting is about two main factors and its participants often thrive on one over the other. It boils down to whether you prefer the hard study or the winning rush, the hunt or the quarry.

You might think it is desirable to err towards the former and most of the time that is surely so. It does have its downsides, though. You find you try to figure everything out. Bet on two flies up a wall? How could I not, if you give me 5-6 the pair! That one on the right is carrying much more condition.

Have you ever priced up something at work in your head? I must admit I do it regularly, and not just with races. What chance this meeting overruns? Who will reply-all to this company-wide email? What will Paul Kealy put up in the big Saturday handicap? All of these and more are offered to the highly exclusive customer base at MelroseBet.

How certain articles will perform in terms of page views is an old favourite, and if you should ever find yourself pricing up those here is a form tip. There are two betting-related topics that prove unerringly popular with readers. Quotes from connections is one, the other is when professional punters are quoted, as in the Secrets Of Racing piece on Tuesday with Mark Holder and Neil Channing.

The popularity of the two genres gets to the heart of a couple of things that all experienced bettors seem to understand naturally. Trainer quotes are covered by the desire to have information that others might not, pro bettors by a desire to learn from the best.

Holder himself made a point about soft inside information that struck a chord. He said: "While most trainers know about their own horse, a punter is dealing with an equation that has ten, 12, 14 runners."

Arsene Wenger, was on to it, too. "Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home," he said in a bygone age (2002) by way of retort to one of Sir Alex Ferguson's jibes.

The point is, what we hear from connections is subject to no small number of biases. That is hardly a novel observation. But it is also the case that what regular bettors pick up from professionals is not always the equivalent of a masterclass.

Being a professional punter is not just about being a great judge, any more than being a professional footballer is solely about skill on the ball. If someone from your bit of the country went on to play in the Premier League, it is probably odds on that there are local tales of a brother, or a youth teammate, who was a much better player 'but he just didn't make it.'

The reasons are much the same when it comes to being a sports bettor. Having been fortunate enough to know and learn from both a smattering of pros and other excellent judges, I can tell you the difference is not merely in whose natural ability is greater.

As Holder and Channing both amply demonstrated in Tuesday's piece, so much of their success is down to dedication, and not just to the form book. Discipline, coolness, a feel for staking and even the tolerance of admin are all major parts of what separates a good punter from those who have what it takes to be professional.

It also needs to be remembered that the desire to have knowledge not in the public domain exists for good reason. It is undoubtedly valuable. Holder gives trainer quotes short shrift, but happily revealed that he keeps private sectional times. That is not a repudiation of chasing down knowledge others do not have, but rather making a choice about which information is important to you.

It is this that strikes at the reason why readers should be looking a little deeper when professional gamblers are quoted. Had Peter Thomas asked for Holder's spreadsheets for the last year, he would have been told where to go. That crosses the line of what explicit information people are generally willing to give away.

Similarly, if you ever find yourself in the company of a top judge, whether that is a pro punter or just one you respect, do not ask them simply what will win the feature. Ask a more open question: what do they think of the race?

Finding out what is important to those with a gift for getting to the nub of a horse is the best lesson a form student can learn. The best punters I have known taught me precious little about staking, we operated in different worlds as far as that was concerned, while their outright tips have been subject to the same vagaries as those of any other tipster.

What I did pick up were various tools of the trade, many of which take a strong hand in my own punting to this day. Trainer rankings, course topography and, yes, even the utility of time analysis are mainstays of my approach now and all were picked up from these role models.

Perhaps the strongest lesson of all has been that there is no silver bullet. The best punters paint with a palette, not in monochrome. Even among the elite there are differing approaches, as we saw on Tuesday. Holder's monastic dedication and barely concealed addiction to being proved right struck a different note from Channing's intuitive and surprisingly collaborative approach.

Their popularity and insight means the Racing Post will keep offering a peek into the lives and methods of those who make their living trading on horses. Readers are right to flock to these pieces. The only advice offered is that we should be looking for the rod, rather than the fish.
Report howard August 28, 2020 1:03 PM BST
Thanks for that.
Report MythWA August 28, 2020 1:11 PM BST
I need convincing that any tipster can make a living from punting.
Name one bookmaker who will allow a punter win regularly.
Most shops monitor anyone who places even one £100 bet.
The traders monitor any savvy betting patterns on-line and soon act.
The exchanges only have liquidity minutes before the off. 
Please tell me how they make circa £35k tax free a year which would be an average income for a typical household without the flash cars etc
Report sparrow August 28, 2020 1:16 PM BST
What is wrong with betting on the exchanges near the off time mythWA?
Report bluebook August 28, 2020 1:17 PM BST
Most important lesson, I'd guess, is patience.
Report ProSniper August 28, 2020 1:21 PM BST
NOTHING. Can only learn from yourself.
Report Shustraya August 28, 2020 1:26 PM BST
the article mentions a pair of bettors working togethor - that's probably the ideal solution. Could be two mates, one that does all the form study and the other with the 'bettors flair' but not much study. Combining the two effectively would be the way ahead.
Report howard August 28, 2020 1:27 PM BST
sparrow , if you are betting big sums to end up with a decent wage your problem on here would likely be the PC not the liquidity. The only way to avoid it is to have loads of winners and losers every week.
Report loper August 28, 2020 1:27 PM BST
Who wrote that piece?

What a load of vacuous waffle.
Report bluebook August 28, 2020 1:31 PM BST
Report bluebook August 28, 2020 1:36 PM BST
Find a method that works, and have the patience to only back those that fit the method.

The problem is finding a method that works... .
Report impossible123 August 28, 2020 1:40 PM BST
I think it might be possible only if on-course bookies obliged (online and high street a non-event) otherwise more chance of selling ice to Eskimos. If it was that simple then almost everyone of the racing channel presenters or pundits would be doing it full-time and not be feeding from the same trough as a bookie employee.

The bookmaking industry (online and bricks and mortar) needs a radical revamp similarly, horse racing and revenue. The present levy is too "friendly" to bookies.
Report Richie_Burnett August 28, 2020 1:43 PM BST
The child is grown,
The dream is gone.
Report breadnbutter August 28, 2020 6:21 PM BST
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 6:31 PM BST
Charity shops springing up in some towns in UK I hear,mostly in closed down betting shops? Maybe just a rumour but I doubt any bookie will ever become a charity impossible?

Btw name one single full time pro punter and I will show my bare arse in a supermarkets main window near you,it is all bull to keep you reading carp,as for 35k a year mentioned,only lunatics would get out of bed for that!!!

HTH and if in doubt ask my old mate Nevo or David as I always call him?Wink
Report brassneck August 28, 2020 8:03 PM BST
most  pro backers will tell you that the day they turned their discipline into a habit they got a marked inprovment in profitsCool
Report Ramruma August 28, 2020 8:06 PM BST
If £35k is the limit, you'd be hard pressed to find a professional bus driver.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 8:14 PM BST
Btw Alan Potts claimed to be a Pro,earning £10k per annum and a decent living.Dave Nevison calls him a James Hunt and tbh,I agree.

He was gutless,Dave said and little has changed from what I observe?
Report bluebook August 28, 2020 8:37 PM BST

That seems rather nasty.
Report Ramruma August 28, 2020 8:38 PM BST
Potts' book came out in 1995 so £10k in early 1990s is worth what today? Call it £20k after tax which would correspond to a pre-tax income (for comparison with ordinary jobs) of £30k pa. Not jet set but ok as pin money.
Report sparrow August 28, 2020 8:43 PM BST
Ramruma 28 Aug 20 20:06 
If £35k is the limit, you'd be hard pressed to find a professional bus driver.

Said the man on the Clapham Omnibus Grin
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 8:46 PM BST
Exactly Ramruna,Pin money? Regardless of Davids opinion,it was a fallacy and a fantasy to claim to be a full time pro punter.Held back until now but from observing,confirmed his opinion imvho?
Report ProSniper August 28, 2020 8:46 PM BST
Nevo was jealous of Pottsy imo
Report elise August 28, 2020 8:47 PM BST
you know he's a regular on here glen?
Report sparrow August 28, 2020 8:52 PM BST
Now you tell him Plain
Report elise August 28, 2020 8:53 PM BST
nevo i mean, posts as kemo
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 8:53 PM BST
I do know that elise,hence the post and as for David prosniper why would he ever be jealous?
Report elise August 28, 2020 8:53 PM BST
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 8:54 PM BST
FFS sparrow,I am ill not fukcing stupid you moron!! HTH
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 8:56 PM BST
Did not take as long as expected!!! WD to the demise of the forum.......VWD in fact!!Sad
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:08 PM BST
Just ordered an ANORAK to be sent to any homeless ex pro in UK in case the temperature drops suddenly!!!Blush
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:09 PM BST
Get to bed you clown!
Report elise August 28, 2020 9:10 PM BST
play nice glen, anoraks a decent bloke, well liked on here and his opinion is respected
Report sparrow August 28, 2020 9:10 PM BST
That toby bloke seems a rather aggressive young man.
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:13 PM BST
Regarding Elise’s post, most people think the exact opposite of you, Glen!
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 28, 2020 9:22 PM BST
In all the years I knew them on the racecourse, only one out of Nevison and Potts ever asked me whether I had any spare readies.

There's no shame in that. I did it myself enough times. But it explains why I had a lot of respect for Potts and how he went about things.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:25 PM BST
Agreed Kenbo,among the flotsam and jetsam that do not engage in anything other than vitriol?

Incapable of engaging in serious or important matters and individually unable to tell a truth. VWD for the heads up.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:27 PM BST
And screamings last post proves the site is full of LSDCs!! NAP

Trolls nothing more or less!!
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:27 PM BST
And screamings last post proves the site is full of LSDCs!! NAP

Trolls nothing more or less!!
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:31 PM BST
Only a week come Monday when a foreign object stuck up my arse,no shyte in sight but some nasty clingon bits hanging on.Resembled plenty on here!!!
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:31 PM BST
Do you think this is the place to discuss serious or important matters?

You make a rod for your own back. You love the attention anyway.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:32 PM BST
Why are you all so COWARDLY you hide behind MULTI NAMES?
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:34 PM BST
I never had you down as thick. I’m starting to doubt myself now.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:34 PM BST
Attention Kenbo? Qualify and quantify why you never ever turn up to discuss anything related to racing or betting?
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:37 PM BST
Challenge me Kenbo,any subject you wish and no time to google? I may have had a stroke but you are at minimum 100 behind on my last mensa of 223?
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:39 PM BST
Mensa has fook all to do with the ability to answer general knowledge questions.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:41 PM BST
Is that a refusal to engage? 223 id down from 241 this time last year Kenbo,you made the statement not me.Prove your opinion of me as a thick clown?
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:43 PM BST
You need better bait there, Glen. I ignored it the first time, now you’re trying too hard.
Report penzance August 28, 2020 9:44 PM BST
could be wrong but thought a schoolgirl
scored the highest ever score(162).
Not long ago.
Report elise August 28, 2020 9:45 PM BST
glen, chill, people know you've not been well but there's no need to have a go at everyone, just have a gin and relax
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:46 PM BST
That’s the kind of reply he was hoping for!
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:46 PM BST
That’s the kind of reply he was hoping for!
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:46 PM BST
Not trying in the slightest,no effort was required.Perhaps you should log out and in again and try for some credibility,try Kemo for example?
Report elise August 28, 2020 9:47 PM BST
i'd be truly amazed if kenbo was kemo, really can't see it sorry
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:48 PM BST
Here’s a question seeing as you’re keen to get some. Why do you think people who disagree with you have multi usernames?
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:48 PM BST
Back of the net Penzance,vwd!!!
Report flukes August 28, 2020 9:50 PM BST
Glentoby, why don't you have a word with Molerat then start another thread that nobody gives a flying flamingo about?
Report penzance August 28, 2020 9:53 PM BST
fcuk me you got me there,pat
on the back.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:53 PM BST
Just for you Kenbo,none ever engage in anything remotely to do with racing or gambling or industry problems.Solely trolling looking for a weakness in anyones posts and even then failing like a school bully slipping on a banana.

My advice,get a job YSDCs and stop squandering my tax money on internet subs!!! Oh yes I still pay UK taxes!!!

Report glentoby August 28, 2020 9:54 PM BST
24/7 and they wonder how and why they are exposed?LaughWinkWinkCrazy
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 9:54 PM BST
That’s made me think of another question. You’re very eager to tell us all about yourself, but what do I do for a living (when I’m not signing on obviously!).
Report penzance August 28, 2020 9:55 PM BST
betty's very own Ted Hastings.
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 10:00 PM BST
You’ve no idea have you, Glen? It’s been mentioned many many times, but you take no notice of other people, you only give a sh1t about yourself.
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 10:01 PM BST
Paranoia still troubling the trolls it appears?

Stay safe,keep others safe and consider the outcome of your actions whilst you still have a choice.

Buona notte tutti,buona fortuna.........look in a mirror SOON,when you feel up to a challenge let the forum know and I will be happy to accommodate ALL users names when and where appropriate?
Report flukes August 28, 2020 10:03 PM BST
Suggested bet for Goodwood tomorrow>>>>>>.

glentoby 27 Aug 20 21:33 Joined: 12 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 12,644 | Blogger: glentoby's blog
Unlikely to be around so thought would pop it on now as bed shortly.

Sophar Sogood 1500 hrs (Stefano) 5/1
Napping 1605 hrs  (Stefano) 6/1
Ahorsecalledwanda 1605 hrs (Marco) 8/1

Gone ew Sophar and ew doubles with the other two,if Sophar only placed (or unp) then ew the other two split stakes.

Good luck if you have a dabble.

Yet another Glentoby thread with no comments from forumites and no winners
Report s.kenbo August 28, 2020 10:05 PM BST
The old ‘I’m gonna back this horse because of where the jockey was born’ system! Laugh
Report glentoby August 28, 2020 10:17 PM BST

A system that never works?

Posted on behalf of glentoby,hope it helps and the right photo,more available if you need any.

Report flukes August 28, 2020 10:48 PM BST
Are you Domino in disguise?
Report flukes August 28, 2020 10:55 PM BST
And yet more B/S

glentoby 28 Aug 20 19:26 Joined: 12 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 12,646 | Blogger: glentoby's blog
Molerat said about this race that the difference could well be the jockey.French Riviera is still a maiden and he says an absolute nightmare to deal with,his words,not mine. The factors in her favour he says,ground she will relish,jockey that will push her forward early and no doubt regarding stamina.

The main thing that swayed me was he is convinced Hollie Doyle might just kick her out and keep riding to the line,that would do me.

Gone ew @ 10s and same 9s 4 places.
Report TheAnorak August 29, 2020 8:33 AM BST
Is this the same Glentoby that was sucking up when I posted the thread concerning my new book:

glentoby • April 19, 2019 6:50 PM BST
Havent looked yet mate but will do shortly.Just like to say that it will probably be a worthwhile delve knowing some of your revelations/knowledge,there are few on here with your depth........

Obviously I've done something that has upset this sensitive soul, but if he thinks insulting me on here is going to have any effect on me, he doesn't know me at all.
Report big aitch August 29, 2020 9:00 AM BST
From reading his posts Alan I think it's safe to assume the poor man has some deep mental issues that cannot be treated.

Another attention seeker who has a very lonely life and needs to blow off steam by posting nonsense on here.
Report loper August 29, 2020 1:07 PM BST
I knew that Glentoby communicated via his gastrointestinal tract, but I never thought he was a cardboard front as well.Sad
Report pablo-fanque August 29, 2020 1:24 PM BST
cello tape all over the computer monitor Laugh

well done glen , you must have won a fortune with them bets , i reckon you won so much that you have to hide the amounts Wink
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