Racecourse Closures

I’ve been playing the Australian markets. I’m usually up at 5:00 so I haven’t had to change my sleep pattern.

Up around 3am for the last 5 weeks playing in the Aussie races.
Their presentation is different class.
No talking heads, just informed on-course presenters.
Comprehensive prices shown, full paddock shots every race, and pre-race interviews  with
jocks and trainers on the point , no stupid Chapman-type comments.
And  a feature I like, they show numbers of the horses that will set the pace in the race.
Trakus for most tracks, with names and prices shown for the leaders during the race at the bottom of screen.
What's not to,like

I won’t backing his type of price foyleswar

Or his amounts

Back in 2012 I went to ascot Perth twice and quite enjoyed it for overseas racing ,I promised myself when I got home I would have a look at it and try and find some winners,but I never really made much effort just got back into the home racing..

I will say it’s the only racing I’ve been to outside Europe I enjoyed.

Harry did have £200,000 on a 2/1 shot one time.

me neither foxy cant rem the last time i backed a shorty, years ago .

FOYLESWAR07 May 20 18:41Joined: 09 Jan 11 | Topic/replies: 18,254 | Blogger: FOYLESWAR's blog
away from the thread topic, screamingbeneaththe waves/foxy and others   a question !  you make your money betting i assume from the daily jumps and flat stuff how is this lockdown affecting you and others on here who rely for most or some of their income from gambling on the british stuff ? how are you and others adapting ,what if any methods are you trying or is it complete down tools so to speak untill we are back to something near normality .

A complete down-tools here. It was Nov. 1990 when I gave up work to go full-time. This is the holiday I've been looking forward to for the last 29 years.

It could go on for a decade as far as I'm concerned. Glorious weather here in rural Somerset; no one stopping you going out as much as you like; no cars, no people, no pressure. In the evenings I can watch films and read books I thought I'd never get round to enjoying again. No evening racing, no form to wade through, no losing runs.

I'd say the last six weeks have been the happiest of my life.

I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. They won't admit it, but that's why surveys show so many people demanding this lockdown doesn't get lifted any time soon.

glad you are weathering it well sbtw, still punting here but only ante post and the dough i would have probably lost when getting involved with the daily stuff has been either invested on future events or has just stayed  in my bank . starting to build up a decent tank here.

Anyone familiar with German racing in pre lockdown times? Prize money for the 3 listed races was £5900 and all other races £1270. If that is typical, how do owners and trainers manage to survive there? Is it more of an "amateur" sport or do owners just lose 80% of their costs? It does perhaps show that racing can take place with very low returns which could be a lesson for UK.

That was a point I made on another thread yesterday Sageform. In essence, prizemoney was half of what was on offer in the corresponding period at Hanover last year where the LRs had a total purse of €20K rather than €10K.

morning jm

as above so back in the autumn at the same track a gp3 mares was 55k euro and a listed was 25k

as in total for the race, the 55k gp3 was 32k to the winner

Morning Elise, hope all's well.

The German industry is completely different to that of the UK, France or Ireland and is nowhere near as commercially driven. Total German foals number less than 1,000 each year with very few 'outside' mares going to their stallions. Most of the best horses are owner/breeder owned and there are very few racing syndicates. It's much more of a sport than an industry.

good ty, you seem on good form, I see you've been winding up some of your Scottish friends

given all the the cr@p re resumption of racing I thought the germans did pretty well y'day, the usual 15 min late off was maintained and the garbage pre race interviews were all intact just with masks in place, so hardly any different to normal

FOYLESWAR08 May 20 07:05Joined: 09 Jan 11 | Topic/replies: 18,256 | Blogger: FOYLESWAR's blog
glad you are weathering it well sbtw, still punting here but only ante post and the dough i would have probably lost when getting involved with the daily stuff has been either invested on future events or has just stayed  in my bank . starting to build up a decent tank here.

That's really good news. Not having a proper tank to work with is about the most common obstacle which trips up a punter (and a bookmaker). For one thing, without proper back-up, you don't do the right things - you miss out on speculative bets at big prices, for instance, and end up watching races praying certain outsiders don't win because you didn't back them when you should have.

And then there's the problem that you might be doing the right things, and have a good method, but the results simply fall in the wrong order and your bank can't take the strain. I believe there are more punters than you'd think out there who could make it pay, but they never do because the losing runs hit them too early and their bank wasn't big enough. So they give up on doing the right thing.

I've written the following story a couple of times on here recently, but it bears repeating. It just illustrates how lucky I've been:


I remember when I went full-time for the second time, in November 1990. I was going only to have value bets, whether or not I thought the horse was the likeliest winner. I calculated that if I wanted to cover the expenses of going racing every day, paying for food and rent, and giving myself a chance of doing more than just survive, I was going to have to bet to level stakes of around £60, whether the horse was evens or 100/1, and I was going to need a bank of £10,000 to do that.

I had just under £3,000 in the world.

What I did was bet as though I really did have £10,000. I had to find out if I could do it.

In retrospect, I was extraordinarily lucky. Day one, I went to Newbury and my first bet was a £500 to £35 each way the Queen Mother's Furry Knowe, and it held on all out by half a length. I ended the day £800 up, and by the end of the season I'd won £13,000, minus three grand expenses. And I upped my stakes to £100, and I'm still here.

BUT ... there was a period in early spring 1991 where I did about £6,000 in two months. If that had occurred a few weeks earlier, I would have been cleaned out. Long-term, I would never have recovered. I would have knocked value-betting on the head, having had my life shattered by it, and I would have spent the last thirty years as a cautious, sensible punter, and lost thousands in the process.

good advice and good to see someone who has had the balls to gamble for a living doing well and still at it ,i do have a few other ways of a smalll income coming in which pays the bills and gives me a bit of money to add to the tank . i have learned quite recently  after a long time punting to not be afraid to win , what i mean by that is the thinking "oh that horse is a very big price but i fancy it strongly but i used to talk myself out of having a really big go on it ,in my mind i was thinking it must be that big a price for a reason ie i must be reading it wrong  so i would go smaller than i should have and regret it when  on odd occasions it  copped(obv backing biggish priced horses a fair amount of losers expected ) , my thinking now is if its a big price  and i have put the work in and it ticks the boxes i now look at the positives and rewards for being brave and having a real go .

It's desperately hard to stick a tenner on a 50/1 ante-post shot you think should be 25s when your bank is anything less than a couple of grand. Especially when a losing run has already halved it. It's so tempting just to save yourself that tenner. After all, even if you're right, twenty-five times out of twenty-six it's going to get stuffed anyway.

But those are the bets that put you in front at the end of the decade.

May 8, 2020 -- 8:21AM, sageform wrote:

Anyone familiar with German racing in pre lockdown times? Prize money for the 3 listed races was £5900 and all other races £1270. If that is typical, how do owners and trainers manage to survive there? Is it more of an "amateur" sport or do owners just lose 80% of their costs? It does perhaps show that racing can take place with very low returns which could be a lesson for UK.

Easier to win a grand and a half on here running it into the back of things is yer problem

An old article from TRC which says a lot about the integrity of German breeders.

The country where stallions who have ever had Lasix are disqualified for breeding


It’s one of the great anomalies of modern racing - the bare figures tell you the German breeding industry is in decline, yet the horses being produced year-in, year-out tell a story of a flourishing and increasingly influential system envied more and more around the world.

Remember that this is a relatively minor racing nation, with just seven G1s through the year, and a bloodstock industry that’s positively tiny alongside the likes of the United States, Britain, Ireland, France, Japan, and Australia. But it has a history of punching way above its weight, and that is at least as great now as it ever has been.

In the last four seasons alone, German-breds have won some of the world’s very greatest races: the Arc (Danedream, 2011), the King George at Ascot twice (Danedream in 2012, Novellist in 2013), and the Melbourne Cup (Protectionist in 2014). And 2011 Kentucky Derby (and 2013 Dubai World Cup) winner Animal Kingdom was out of a German mare, who was bought at the Baden-Baden sales shortly after winning at the local racecourse.

Last season's top German 3-year-old, Sea The Moon, whose career was cut short by injury, was rated 125 in the World’s Best Racehorse Rankings, making him the joint fourth best horse of the classic generation in the world (alongside Bayern).

German-breds are noted for soundness, stamina, and being able to maintain their form, even improve, as they mature, qualities many believe are less and less evident in Thoroughbreds being produced elsewhere.

So what is Germany’s secret? What is it that enables its breeding industry to maintain a level of success proportionally so much higher than other jurisdictions?

Perhaps one of the keys lies in the system for selecting stallions, and in particular the distinction between approved stallions (the German word is anerkannt) under German rules and those not approved (nicht anerkannt).

The big difference is that foals sired by approved stallions are eligible for German breeders' premiums (currently 30 percent of prize money for 2- and 3-year-olds, and 20 percent for older horses), while those by non-approved stallions get nothing.

These premiums are a considerable factor in the financial planning of breeders, so the loss of them is a huge disincentive. Basically it means it is extremely rare for a leading German breeder to use a non-approved stallion.

The conditions a stallion must fulfil before approval is granted by the breeding commission at the Direktorium, the German racing authority, are very strict. He must have reached a certain level of form as measured by his performances on the track, he must be a good physical specimen free of defects - and he must be free of any artificial stimulant or medication.

He will be subject to a physical examination and must have correct conformation and prove his suitability as a stallion; five qualities are tested and given ratings, and a minimum mark must be reached. He must be totally free of any infectious disease and also of any congenital defect that could in theory be passed on to his offspring; rigs (cryptorchids) or parrot-mouths, for example, will not be allowed.

The rule that a horse must be free of any artificial medication is retroactive. If he has at any time been on artificial medication, he is automatically disqualified as an approved stallion. This includes medication commonly used in other racing jurisdictions but banned in Europe for horses in training, such as bute or Lasix.

The rules were introduced in 1997. Some ex-U.S. runners (mainly Northern Dancer line stallions) had been brought to Germany in the 1980s, and trainers and breeders had complained that they were in many cases siring "soft" offspring.

One notable “victim” of the rule is Fährhof stud's Sabiango, one of the few stallions now standing in Germany who is not approved. Sabiango was an excellent racehorse, winning three G1s, and has a fine pedigree, being one of the best sons of Acatenango and a half-brother to South African champion sire Silvano. He is good-looking and there are no problems with his conformation.

However, as a 6-year-old, he was sent to the states, where he won two stakes races, the Charles Whittingham Memorial and the Kentucky Cup Turf Handicap, both on Lasix. He came back to Germany afterwards, but is not approved as a stallion there because of those U.S. runs on Lasix, so he started his stud career in France. He is now back at Fährhof but covers very few mares.

Despite only minor support, Sabiango has had some minor success as a stallion - his daughter Jive won the Swedish Oaks - so it is possible he may have been a loss to German breeding.

On the whole, though, these regulations have strengthened the industry in Germany as they mean no “soft” horses will find a place at stud there. Breeders sending their mares to be covered in Germany can be confident the prospective mate will be healthy, have no defects and be drug-free. This is undoubtedly a major factor in the worldwide success of German-breds and helps account for the soundness, longevity, and stamina for which they are admired.

That is not to imply that German-breds are one-paced plodders. There is, of course, a long list of German successes in such stayers' races as the Prix du Cadran, the Gold Cup, the Cesarewitch, and the Melbourne Cup, as well as a host of top jumps races, but the best German-breds have the class to win at all distances.

Monsun, the most successful German stallion of all time, who stood at Gestüt Schlenderhan from 1996 to his death in 2012, did indeed sire the winners of these races, but he was also represented by several 2-year-old champions, as well as G1 milers such as Maxios and Manduro, although the latter, described by André Fabre as the best horse he has ever trained, seemed to be effective at many trips.

Yet a mile and a half is the key distance in Germany. Five of the country’s seven G1s are run over that trip (the Deutsches Derby, the Grosser Preis von Berlin, the Grosser Preis von Baden, the Preis von Europa, and the Grosser Preis von Bayern), one, the Preis der Diana (Oaks), is over 11 furlongs and the other, the Grosser Dallmayr-Preis, is over 10.

Clearly a German breeder intending to race his own stock (as many of them do) will be trying to breed a horse whose best distance will be 12 furlongs. So it is no surprise that the German racing programme caters mainly for later maturing types with plenty of stamina - the 2-year-old programme is relatively weak, with hardly any races for that age group before August and only four Group races all year, all of them G3.

The mile-and-a-half Deutsches Derby, of course, plays a significant role, with many of its winners going on to success at stud.

Indeed there was nearly an unbroken run of almost a century of one line of Derby winners themselves each siring a Derby winner. It began with Herold, the 1920 winner. He sired three winners of the Derby, including the outstanding Alchimist, who won in 1933 and became the sire of Birkhahn (1948). The sequence stops there, but his son Literat (who broke down in the 1968 Derby when an odds-on favourite - and on all known form would have won), was the sire of Surumu, who won the race in 1977 and resumed the sequence as he was the sire of Acatenango (1985), who was the sire of Lando (1993).

The series could be coming to an end, as neither Lando nor Nicaron, Acatenango's other winner of the race, has yet produced a Deutsches Derby winner. One of Lando's best sons, Scalo, was hot favourite for the 2010 renewal but could only finish ninth.

Acatenango is also sire of Derby-winning filly Borgia, who is doing well as a broodmare, while he sired French Derby winner Blue Canari, as well as the dam of Kentucky Derby winner Animal Kingdom, Dalicia. So it is possible that this line could continue in another country.

German breeding has two big built-in advantages – the sheer number of strong female families that have flourished for generations, often for the same breeder, and the high number of quality stallions, often from these same families.

Although quite a few stallions from the Northern Dancer line were imported into Germany in the final quarter of the last century, they have far less influence than has been the case in many other countries, Ireland in particular, with the result that German stallions and mares are often complete outcrosses.

Yet, for all these advantages and this level of success, the number of Thoroughbred mares in Germany has dropped alarmingly from 2,079 in 2008 (and even more in the late 1990s) to 1,425 in 2014, while the number of live foals fell from 1,245 to only 748 in the same period, according to the Direktorium.

The numbers are expected to improve in 2015, as about 20 percent more mares were covered last year, but they are still well short of the numbers required to support a viable racing programme. Jan Antony Vogel, the secretary general of the Direktorium, has proposed that a minimum of at least 1,200 foals a year is needed.

It is to be hoped that this target can be achieved - otherwise the consequences could be be felt not just in Germany, but ultimately all around the world.

Close places like Fakenham & Fontwell (never any runners )and Southwell,Wolverhampton & Foss las, and reopen Folkestone

Fos Las^^

Folkestone

Loved Folkestone, always busy, i would have loved to have run that racecourse, it'd be a flagship for smaller courses.

So is the German model the one that the smaller UK tracks should follow?

I will help you run it dambuster even though it’s a 600 mile round trip for me.

Dambuster wants to close 5 tracks he doesn't care for and reopen another he likes.
You will be pleased to know that I don't wish to close any track I personally dislike.

Close Fontwell ! I'll give  dambuster the benefit of the doubt that he's suffering from heat stroke .

It is not about closing, it is about whether or not to prop them up with levy cash. Same for football or rugby clubs.

many years ago i did the point to point circuit(my record was 49 meetings in a season) and living in surrey i always
went to the Folkestone hunter chase night..mad dash after work from croydon..was always great fun but did seem a long way down the M20

My racing life started with point to points. As a farming family, we were usually occupied with work in the summer and PTP was the main entertainment in my childhood, starting at 11 months or so I was told. Our 2 local courses were Didmarton and Woodford (Berkeley) with Avon Vale and Mendip farmers other regulars. Later we also managed to get to the Heythrop, Lockinge, Badbury, Larkhill and and to the Worcestershire courses such as the Dudley cup. My first rules meeting was probably Beaufort Hunt at Sherston and then Cheltenham when aged 11. The family never went flat racing so that had to wait until I was at Reading Univ. when Newbury and Ascot were accessible by train.

isleham I've lived near to Tweseldown for the past 40 years , that's a course I'd love to see brought back to life.

I mainly did the south east circuit with some east Anglia and a little Midlands..sorry Post but the odd times I went to Tweseldown was never that keen with much of the racing behind trees even from the hill..access from the tunnel under the track as you obviously know

Tweseldown is the only point to point I have ever visited when my father took me in the 50s. Coming from the East End of London it was like a completely different world to me.

Only went there a couple of times but can't remember much.

as i mentioned earlier the tunnel under the track must be fairly unusual/almost unique..anyone know others??(Ascot's was to the old paddock)

Chester

Chelmsford has 2

Reminds of telly tubby land walking into Chelmsford.

Brighton has a tunnel about 2 furlongs down the track to get to the council estate in the middle.

Epsom

What’s Wilson Avenue for?

it's a road the course goes across, traffic has to be held up during a race

Ascot has a road tunnel by the royal hunt cup start.

Sorry squares I knew that bit ,but wasn’t aware of a tunnel I just thought Wilson Avenue was for that

Three Little Words hostelry from your part  of the world Foxy just been on the box. Have you been there ?

Doesn’t ring a bell democrat but there opening up all the time some don’t last very long.

Love Pontefract. Detest Epsom

Just enquired about it ,it’s a new modern gin and cocktail bar that’s rules me and Debbie out.

Foxy
it looked very nice could do with one in downtown Darlo.
hope you are well
stay safe
Ronnie.

Hello Ronnie it will be priced accordingly.

I’m reasonably well should have been the country’s only mixed card today so getting fed up now.

Look after yourself

Didn't Newbury have a decent mixed card back in the day Foxy ?

Sandown it was democrat the whitbread and the Gordon Richards stakes

Was the Horris Hill ever part of a mixed card - going  back several years Foxy

1973 for instance Foxy. Showing my age !

Horris hill is late October so it’s possible but I can never remember it been a mixed card ,it’s a long time since anything decent won that race probably tirol.

I can remember kris in 78 but none before that so if it was it would be pre 78.

The likes of onlooker,anorak or ged can back a lot further than me.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEWBURY-RACE-CARD-26TH-OCTOBER-1973-A-MIXED-CARD-FLAT-AND-NATIONAL-HUNT/372877138386?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180213162448%26meid%3De4881c7b67b24636ac1e39168490e33c%26pid%3D100930%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D12%26b%3D1%26sd%3D323871515094%26itm%3D372877138386%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100930.m5375

Having a very poor memory and nowhere near the knowledge of some on here I confess to researching !

Harlow - tunnel , track to kennels.

Well done democrat it wasn’t until 77/78 I started racing so didn’t know that ,I suppose it makes sense been late October my first memory of Newbury jumps was night nurse winning the mandarin chase.

No it’s not bright highway was before night nurse.

Foxy
it looked very nice could do with one in downtown Darlo.
hope you are well
stay safe
Ronnie.

Ronnie not sure how a trendy gin/cocktail bar would fare in Darlo against The Greyhound and Hogans!! Going from a nice rhubarb gin to a hot shot is a bit of a jump!!

Foxy

I first went to Newbury 40 years ago, I backed one of Charlie Nelson's in the Fred Darling; Millingdale lily owned by Robert Sangster and I think Lester rode her; it was a red hot day and I remember After the race buying a slice of melon from the fruit seller at the end of tats.

I got the special from Newbury into London before the train home north, and remember watching the card schools in the buffet carriage from Newbury to London, that was an eye opener.

The next day I went Ayr, those were the days my friend, at that age we did think they would never end, sadly I now know different now but I still have the memories.

glad to say i said ALMOST unique..forgotten the epsom and chester(only been there once) ones and never been to brighton and chelmsford and in all probability not likely to go to the latter two

One of the best sprinters I ever saw Marwell won the Fred darling the year after Ronnie,Newbury to Ayr is some trip but the trains then were always more fun,time wise my longest journey was Yarmouth Monday ffos las Tuesday.

Isleham I forgot Epsom,still don’t know where the Brighton one is and I’ve been loads of times ,worth a visit by the way despite the cr.p racing.

Perth Sunday, Chelmsford Monday (and it wasn't an evening meeting) for me.

What a disappointing race the Fred darling has become in the 20 years period from millingdale Lillie we had marwell,salsabil ,shadidayad,bosra sham,and wince,since 99 nothing of any note.

What did you think f Chelmsford squares?

foxy
was it marwell  or marling that won the kings stand on the Friday at the royal meeting it was known as the getting out stakes.
Ronnie.

Marwell Ronnie she came up the stands rail amazing how times change back then many had gone home after the Thursday the racecourse was nowhere near full probably around 60 % full now Friday is as busy as any day.


Marwell didn’t stay in the 1000 marling should have won the 1000

Brighton one is a pedestrian only one, just past the garden centre . It’s a subway - you’d hardly seek it out!

Marwell was beaten at odds on at Haydock by one of John Dunlop’s then went and won in Paris .

Thanks third time lucky I know the garden centre had coffee there .

Foxy

RE:-One of the best sprinters I ever saw Marwell won the Fred darling the year after Ronnie,Newbury to Ayr is some trip but the trains then were always more fun,time wise my longest journey was Yarmouth Monday ffos las Tuesday.


remember 20 odd years ago had a leg in one that ran at Hamilton; thousand to 120 with macbet; it won and the next day flew down to ascot 600/400 one with Micky that also won, NOW THOSE WERE THE DAYS.

cant wait to get back to work looking forward to all those 10p lucky 15's

Stay safe

I would settle for going racing with restricted crowds I think Ireland is going to be 5000,which over here would mean no restrictions on many days.

Sept. 1985: Longchamp on the Sunday to back Clive Brittain's Bold Arrangement in the Prix de la Salamandre (finished only third, ran into a right one, having to give weight to the filly Baiser Volé).

Overnight boat train back to Newhaven on the Monday morning, then the rattler to Plumpton hoping a Martin Pipe 3yo called Honeyman would be attempting to defy a puny 15 lb triple penalty in the juvenile hurdle (it did - "made all, easily" as usual).

What a marvellous life it's been!

Foxy (18.29 Q), I'm a big fan although I appreciate it is not necessarily going to impress the traditionalists.

When there was only 3 aw tracks I spent a lot of time at Wolverhampton and Southwell good times ,still enjoy the occasional day at Wolverhampton..

what about foreign courses people have attended ??
in ireland the curragh,galway,punchestown,naas and navan(the last two the night before punchestown)..none in scotland
also in france longchamp,chantilly and seen deauville(no racing) and driven past cagnes sur mer so the latter two hardly count
and further afield only garrison savannah and caulfield..attended meetings

Saratoga. End of thread.

Hello jm

Only been to gulfstream in America a long time ago don’t think I was over impressed.

Have you been watching match of their lives on bbc 1 ,you seem to get a united arsenal game each week i didn’t realise how physical they were.

In historical order, my visits to foreign tracks are: Nairobi, Aqueduct, Finger Lakes, Belmont, Athens (Greece), Deauville, Rio de Janeiro, Pompadour (french provinces) Longchamp, Chantilly, Sao Paulo, Arlington, Florence (Italy) and Santa Anita for the Breeders Cup. Some were when on holiday, some as a side trip when on business and some when at University in America. I did visit Saratoga and Keeneland but not for live racing. Probably the most impressive winner I have seen live was Black Tie Affair who won at Arlington before winning the Breeders Cup. He was enormous and just kept galloping away from his rivals.

Sorry, you will have to lower the text size to read that.

Hi both.

Not sure players would get anywhere near that physical level these days but they have been wonderful matches to watch again. And now for a 29 year old aftertime, I had Black Tie Affair in a treble with Arazi and Dance Smartly that day back at Churchill Downs.

horrendously ungentlemanly aftertiming johnnie

Hello isleham

Been to a few overseas and to be honest I much prefer uk and Ireland,in fairness I did enjoy ascot in Perth ,not yet been to the new Longchamp,one place I did get a great review from was merano a friend of mine had a runner there a couple of years ago he had only praise for the place.

Not been to deauville but intend to one day,of the Irish tracks you mention navan would be my favourite of those.

although retrospective penance could be granted given the time lapse

in sageform order

Longchamp (Arc), Portland Meadows, Happy Valley, Toulouse, Auteuil, Mont de Marsan, Gulfstream (Breeders Cup), Nad Al Sheba (Dubai WC), Jebel Ali, Pardubice (Velka), Slusovice

there are literally dozens of racecourses in France, some trotting only, many only race on local festival days - sure some of them would be a cracking day out

looking forward to racing online from Toulouse tomorrow, in 98-99 the apartment I rented overlooked the course, 5 minute walk, baguette, a few pressions and saw some decent horses, JC Rouget was just coming to the fore then and Marquesa de Moratalla regularly had runners there.  Toulouse has flat, hurdles, chases and trotting - sometimes all on the same card!! trotting was very confusing - in every race it seemed half the field were Disqualifié pour Allures Irrégulières!!

Going back to the question about mixed meetings at Newbury, they did exist in different forms up to 1997. Up to 1982, the October meeting was scheduled over three days, with flat and NH races mixed on each day, Thursday to saturday.

In 1982, the first two days were lost to waterlogging and as the flat track was still unraceable, all the NH races were resceduled to make up a full card for the Saturday.

The following year, it was still a three day meeting, but now it was all flat on Thursday and Saturday, NH on Friday. That continued until 1996 and was shown that way in the original 1997 fixture list, but at some point during the year, it was changed to a two day flat only meeting on Friday and Saturday. And that became the pattern for the future.

I recall the Friday jumps meet being on BBC at one time

I can remember those Newbury mixed cards. They were a very good standard.
Good memory JM, I had a small bet at Arlington but a bigger one at Churchill. My day at Santa Anita (bragging again) included Conduit, Goldikova and a big enough bet on Ravens Pass to take the family out for a meal at a very good restaurant in Pasadena. My son was a postdoc at UCLA medical school at the time and he organised the tickets. Great memories, a table on the infield, short walk to the paddock and at the end Frankie doing a flying dismount. The Americans tore up the course after the Europeans won 5 races on that day in 2008 and went back to dirt.

how do we find the Forum without reducing text size and then ending with a long line in each post?

You could use this link and save it to your favourites, sageform.


https://community.betfair.com/service/go/forum/view/94166/165814/Service

toulouse jumps was me fave for the couple of years it was available on sportsbook and exchange. bet on sportsbook and play ir on exchange, 8 seconds ahead. its very tight and last year i williams sent one of his there, ridden by d crosse. lined up in front and was clearly getting a flyer. backed it at 14 and then again after 2 flights when it was 50 lengths clear. they never got near it.

demise of flash put an end to the french but i still dont understand how it was possible. been losing ever since.

I do have that link but had not used it today. Thanks anyway.