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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTQmh3OOSss
god she flew last 1/2 furlong
god she flew last 1/2 furlong
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Recorded the 1000 Guineas from 83 onwards yesterday just going to watch them now with a nice cup of tea will stick my two twopennyworth in shortly Elisjohn.
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I think many forget how impressive pebbles was in the Guineas due to other performances later in her career
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 , dont miss the 81 fairy footsteps, im always going on about lester ride in this , sublime, its on you tube |
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I remember 81 one of my all time favourites Marvell didn’t stay money recovered in Paris.
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Miesque would have been a fair price 1 1/2 out
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Just seen harayir we spoke about the other day still don’t remember the race
 also didn’t remember how impressive sleepytime was. |
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Zarkava if you include the French version
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On the day Cape Verdi was hugely impressive. Nice to see Natagora not a great winner nor an impressive winner but a filly I liked and was convinced she would win the Guineas just watching it again this morning that was a long final furlong
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Good morning Andrew I am sure whilst in lockdown we will get the reruns of the french classics and there will be a thread on them ,I know they don’t win us any money but they are very enjoyable .
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Good morning Foxy. I first saw Zarkava at an Arc meeting when she won the Prix Marcel Boussac. I didn't back her that day, but kept her name in my head as i was so impressed the way she won and thought she could win our 1000 Guineas the following year (2008). A French horse did, but not her as she stayed in France.
A wonderful filly with a superb turn of foot to match the best colts we've seen and i include Dancing Brave. My favourite filly along with Enable, it'a a pity the Aga Khan didn't keep her in training, imagine her against Sea The Stars in the 2009 Arc, i truly believe she could have won. A link to her Boussac win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S87u5E7AgW8 At the 400M pole she jinks her head to the left for whatever reason (maybe greenness) and Soumillon has to bring her off the rail, but at the 200M she really starts to accelerate and it's race over. Note her 'bunny' hop in the last 50M. I never get tired of watching her videos, there are several on You-Tube. |
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She was a terrific horse and yes a match up with sea the stars would have been something to see.
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Over the years I think the aga khan has been the biggest culprit for denying horses that could have been even better at 4 sinndar springs to mind.
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just watched miesque again, bloody hell how did she win !
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Ravinella won with plenty in hand and had Diminuendo trailing.
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Back to the 1000 Guineas ,some great winners pebbles,miesque,salsabil,sayadati,bosra sham,minding,Cape Verdi ,Russian rythem and sky lantern all achieved plenty in the careers,fillies beaten in the race like habiti,tryptych,diminuendo,kooyoonga,marling,reams of verse,lyric fantasy,six perfections,petrushka,and lightning thunder all great horses,but my pick on the day Elisjohn is Cape Verdi overall career yes miesque would be the best.what I did notice watching the reruns from 83 onwards is how the strength in depth has declined in the 1000 Guineas.
Another thing I noticed and I mentioned it on the el gran Senor thread yesterday is what a shocking commentator graham Goode was and for such a long time. |
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Culprit is an emotive word foxy. Owner breeders have their own policies and in the case of the Aga Khan and his advisors, the policy is to improve the breed and to produce a continuous supply of group performers. In the case of sires you may be right that some could have raced on but for mares, the object has to be to breed from them as soon as you have enough evidence of their ability. My profession was as a population geneticist in the pig industry and I would do the same. What I would not do though is produce so many animals that are descended from a very small number of sires as inbreeding will eventually reduce performance. The Age Khan uses quite a few unfashionable sires and that is a good policy if they are unrelated to the mares. I strongly believe that is why he and his ancestors have been successful for so long but he has weakened his policy by not competing in UK for many years.
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Can't agree with Cardinal either! He quit the UK after the disqualification of an Oaks winner. He has been extremely loyal to trainers. Royer-Dupre has been his main French trainer for as long as I can remember and so was John Oxx for many years in Ireland. Dermot Weld and Mick Halford have been his others in Ireland. In UK over the 50 years that I recall he only used 3, Johnson-Houghton, Cumani and Stoute and as I say, he moved out of UK after a dispute with the BHA, not the trainers.
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Stoute had Kalanisi & other previously with Cumani (more falling out)....that was long long after Aliysa & why did he dump John Oxx?
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Good morning sageform
I’m not really that we’ll clued up on the breeding side of the game so am happy to accept your defence of the aga khan ,however I am definitely with cardinal on his falling out with trainers and in fact the racing in the uk for a period. |
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Going completely off-topic found a 1982 doc on YT called Stewards Enquiry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqH9dLARww8 |
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Miesque was a very good winner of the 1000 gns but I think the field came back to her a bit.My memory is not what is was but I remember backing Half A Year in the St James Palace stakes because he had ran the final furlong faster than Miesque when winning his maiden on 1,000 gns day.
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In answer to the question of the best 1000 Guineas winner over the last 40 years...it IS Miesque - by some margin too!
I know there've been some quality winners but I'd say that ALL of the elite brigade were moreso 10-12f performers; Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Bosra Sham, Midway Lady, Salsabil, Minding etc. However good the above were...none of them could've matched her trademark terrific burst over a mile. No chance! |
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I'd go as far as to include the 2000 Guineas winners too...or older milers!
There's a very short list of horses over the last 40 years that she'd not be able to get the better of...especially in receipt of a fillies' allowance. El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave & Frankel are the probably the big three and again, they were successful over longer trips. There are sure to be votes for Zafonic, Zilzal, Goldikova, Kris, Warning, Nureyev etc...even an often overlooked King's Best on his top form. These kind of threads are great for debate - an old forumite from years ago called Shay used to start them and he'd get all his 'facts' wrong  He was great entertainment though and he's missed by many I'm sure. |
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Since 1977 , the best four winners on official ratings ( performance in the race itself ) are as follows
1987 - MIESQUE 122 1984 - PEBBLES 120 1997 - SLEEPYTIME -120 1998 - CAPE VERDI -120 The best performance in the race this century was FINSCEAL BEO ( 118 - 2007 ) |
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Zafonic on that day was brilliant and no one would have beaten him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9gDKdZ3qzA |
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Not a Guineas winner but Goldikova would have given all the prementioned a race, rated 125 as a 3 year old.
A year later she was on 130 and the 2nd best rated horse in the world behind Sea The Stars. |
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prementioned fillies
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No racecourse commentary on zafonics 2000 Guineas which in a strange way made it visually even more impressive.
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Can’t argue to much with those ratings stellar although I would have had Cape Verdi on Guineas day top ,no doubt they are the best 4.
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i know shatoush went on to win a classic but that has to be one of the worst 1000 field.
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Musical bliss possibly
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Hermosa possibly
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Lowest rated winners in recent times ( based on performance in the race itself and not by reference to what they did subsequently ) were SPECIAL DUTY( 2010_ and SKY LANTURN (2014) both on 111
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Pebbles was a fav but Hatoof was happy days and 2kG +1kG double don't come along every year, both Hatoof and RDT were decent prices and surprisingly were best horses in race and both delivered.
Cape Verdi won well too, another good day,as was Attraction win, she was a good un too. |
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Bosra Sham was a beast,pwopper oss, mieseque was a nice oss too but everyone knew.
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didnt fancy rodrigo myself after his greenham defeat
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Triptych won the Irish 2kG, has there ever been a Filly win the 2kG?
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Salsabil was a class act, and she won a good enough guineas I think.
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