How about your favourite jaw-dropping race?

To watch Grundy v Bustino
Financial, Ballyandy, Cheltenham Bumper

frankels guineas

end of thread

Dancing Braves Arc, because I was there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hXunBuVPk

Wot a filly, Pat Eddery looking round a furlong out

Great performance ^

Sea Bird 11 1965 Arc De Triomphe.


In the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Sea-Bird faced a very strong field, including Irish Derby winner Meadow Court, Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla and Russian Derby winner Anilin. Starting at odds of 6/5, Sea Bird won easily despite veering across the track, with jockey Pat Glennon patting him down the neck in the final 100 yards, by six lengths (though photographs of the finish show it to have been closer to four and a half lengths) from Reliance. Five lengths further back in third place was Diatome (though photographs show it to have been closer to four lengths), who went on to win the Washington, D.C. International. Fourth place went to Free Ride, fifth was Anilin and sixth was Tom Rolfe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w6l4dycjDE

Hello do you think that was better than the Queen Anne?

Arazi in the Breeders Cup Juvenile 29 years ago.

Was that ridden by George formby fidway

Foxy, mine the same so my answer to your question is yes. This was the race when we really saw the real deal for the first time (because always in the back of the mind is has it trained on to be that good?)

Frankel 2012 in the Queen Anne at RA, i was there and it was my daughters first experience of horse racing, does it get any better.

Also Zarkava 2008 Prix Vermeille at Longchamp where she started her run from way off the pace (probably somewhere in Belgium) and ran past the entire field like they were platers to win going away.

I understand where your coming from lee ,for me the day he won the Queen Anne was the day I finally accepted we had seen a freak of a racehorse one which would never be beaten.

In terms of form,style and performance York was his best run.

I backed a horse about 1985 called cyrano de Bergerac on the flat, it won from an impossible position imo I had it backed in a double with efisio of john dunlop I think, not sure who trained cyrano de Bergerac maybe hastings bass?? but it was an excellent performance

Willie Hastings bass

He was well suited by been held up

^^^ and of course it's really good when the race goes from 'well I'll just tear my ticket up' to "get in my son!"

plenty on the a/w with 2st in hand

as mentioned before arazi,frankel and dancing brave (i thought the arc was the most impressive)

Montjeu’s King George was poetry in motion:

https://twitter.com/AtTheRaces/status/1151574037128257548

One of the finest performances I ever saw was Galileo’s debut where he won by 15 lengths. I’d never seen a horse move like that before, he simply glided and floated across the ground. Would love to be able to watch it again but despite looking everywhere I can’t find a link.

montjeu another favourite...didnt he sire hurricane run who also won the arc johnny

Yes he did Chavvers, along with St Nicholas Abbey, Camelot, Fame and Glory, Authorized amongst others.

Arc and king george

Arc and king george

none of those won the arc johhny,both in tabors colours if memory seves

Into View winning at Sandown , coming from another postcode

Humble Duty winning the 1,000 Guineas

Peintre Celebre winning the Arc

Morley Street beating Granville Again in the " bridle " finish at Aintree

Carvills Hill winning the Welsh National

Foxy.thats what it looked like, if it was in a movie you would have laughed at the ridiculousness of it lol.

I know Chavvers, was merely mentioning what else he sired.

but both montjeu and hurricane run ran in tabors silks if im correct

considering the ubiquitous magnier colours these days it seems surprising now

Brief gale beating harcon

harchibald hardy eustace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFXeEOLFrE

I’m biased.....but the horse I bought a leg of that’s now in training with Pipe. Crossing lines

https://youtu.be/BWMSp_hgIeA

G Hall - "I backed a horse about 1985 called cyrano de Bergerac on the flat, it won from an impossible position imo I had it backed in a double with efisio of john dunlop I think, not sure who trained cyrano de Bergerac maybe hastings bass?? but it was an excellent performance"

If memory serves, he put up a couple of tremendous weight carrying performances in Autumn nurseries at Newmarket...I think Piggott rode CDB when he humped 10st to victory!

If that was Efisio's 1985 Challenge Stakes you sure got your money's worth on that double - that was a tremendous race and I'm bewildered that it's not on YT.

Chilibang 1988 Kings Stand was a fairly big price anyway but missed the break, would have gone over 100s on Betfair easy if it had been around then.

Bonanza Boy in one of the Racing Post trophies, was tailed off I think

Both Won

I've found that Kings Stand and memory failed  as never missed the break as badly as I thought, still an excellent recovery


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCUEF-n-Fbc

I was there when Bonanza Boy won. That was incredible and would defo have hit 999 in running.

Some good choices.
Mine are Shergar in the Derby....and because I had a small fortune on it.....Same applies to DAWN RUN in the Gold Cup.

Gibberish I think so but it's a long time ago and not sure I have the formbook either, I will look again, I know both races were televised and it was a midweek meeting but I can't remember where,I thought maybe Doncaster but ciuldn5say for sure.

if the question is jaw dropping it has to be harbinger

Rodrigo-Lester Juddmonte.
Royal Academy-Breeders cup turf.

1984 Kings Stand Stakes won by Habibti from Anita's Prince. The winner came from an impossible position to win on the line - truly jaw dropping especially if you had backed the winner and given up all hope !

Apr 18, 2020 -- 1:25PM, democrat wrote:

1984 Kings Stand Stakes won by Habibti from Anita's Prince. The winner came from an impossible position to win on the line - truly jaw dropping especially if you had backed the winner and given up all hope !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nlQFpHxjTI

Apologies if anyone has already posted this.  Kermouster at Ripon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=259yqIiW4iE

My top five would be:

Frankel's 2000 Guineas
Carvill's Hill Welsh National
Viking Flagship three way photo at Aintree
Morley Street beating Granville Again at Aintree
Red Rum beating Crisp at Aintree

Storm Alert

What's the odds on that , we both picked 5 and we have two same races       

Hayden (and SA) - I only put up Frankel's Guineas but the '73 National was right up there too although for me the jaw-dropping aspect was Crisp's jumping throughout the race which was breathtaking. All imo of course

russian rhtyhm winning guineas after drifting like it had lost a leg

six perfections would have hosed up that day,the french idiot had him in an impossible position

*her

Kings Best 2,000 Guineas - better than Frankel imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh73xxLqm5c

Full CH4 coverage and post race analysis here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4cydWu4KK0

Sorry about this guys and gals but you did ask.

It has to be the 1971 2000 Guineas, the best 2000 Guineas in history.

After winning the Middle Park easily I backed him at 12/1 and all over the winter, the press was either Mill Reef or My Swallow while the form book said differently. They obviously couldn't read it.
I, like everyone else, looked after two horses and the first, his lead horse, ran in the race before the 2000 Guineas bolting up by 5 lengths while I walked around the saddling enclosure listening to the loudspeaker. After letting him go I crossed the course to watch the race at ground level opposite the stands and the sprint in the last two furlongs was amazing. I was so excited when he approached the winning post I ducked under the rails to go get him. Buster, the travelling head lad who was watching with me, grabbed me back after a few strides just as the two backmarkers went by, they were so far back I didn't see them. On the film I can still be seen running across the track to get him.
Six months of working and dreaming I could think of nothing else. Every time I went out in the car if I was on a dual carriageway I would sit behind another car then as we approached a bridge or a marker I would pull out and just pip Mill Reef on the line.
Fifty years ago next year but as clear as day.

are you frank bruno

Fantastic memories for you brigust and for those of us who witnessed those 3 great horses.

Lovely memories there brigust and well told

Although it happened on a Wednesday and I didn't see it until years later I would agree with Sparrow. Sea-Bird. Don't know what he beat. Timeform liked what he beat in the Arc although I'm not totally convinced by that and it was on heavy. But I know what Shergar beat. It wasn't a good field although Glint of Gold became a decent stayer albeit one that Ardross always put in his place.  Looking back at Sea-Bird you could have thought he was a 4-y-o which I suppose is what you want first week in June. Did anything behind turn out any good ?

Just looking back I see Sparrow was putting up the Arc not the Derby.

Fair comment about shergars derby but kalaglow and all nasr also ran in it,albeit poorly.

howard, in that Derby of 1965 Sea Bird beat the 2nd Meadow Court by 2 lengths and that horse went on to win the Irish Derby and the Arc field speaks for itself as you can see in the earlier post.



A 7/4 favourite to win the Derby at Epsom, the manner of his victory and the quality of the field he beat were striking. Under Pat Glennon, an Australian jockey who had moved from Ireland to France to accept a job with Sea Bird’s trainer Etienne Pollet, he cruised along on the outside of the field before crossing the line two lengths clear. Meadow Court, the runner-up ridden by Lester Piggott, later proved himself an outstanding performer by winning the Irish Derby at The Curragh and the King George VI at Ascot.

Bred and owned by Jean Ternynck, a cousin of Pollet, Sea Bird did not have a particularly auspicious pedigree. But he lost only once in eight starts, when given too much ground to make up by Maurice Larraun as a two-year-old in the Grand Critérium at Longchamp.

He ran twice at home as a three-year-old in preparation for the Derby, winning the Prix Greffulhe at Saint-Cloud and the Prix Lupin at Longchamp. In the latter he thrashed the unbeaten Diatome and the French 2,000 Guineas winner Cambremont by six lengths.


Glennon, who had moved from Ireland to France to accept a job with Pollet, barely moved for a mile and half as the colt cruised along behind the leaders on the outside of the field before hitting the front entering the home straight and crossing the line two lengths clear.



Piggott, riding the second, had no doubt as to the merit of that performance or Sea Bird’s victory at Longchamp. “Sea Bird, Ribot and Frankel were the best, in that order,” he told The Telegraph in 2015. “Pat Glennon said before the Arc all he was worried about was being able to pull up the horse before the road [by the old parade ring]. In the race, he started pulling up about a furlong and a half out – that’s how good he was.”

The 1965 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe was shaping up to be a high-quality contest and was set to be his toughest challenge.

Because Sea-Bird had been given a break, he looked noticeably bigger and stronger than he did prior to the Derby and had clearly thrived from his time away from a racecourse.

His rivals included Americas leading three-year-old and Preakness winner, Tom Rolfe, and the unbeaten Reliance, winner of the Prix du Jockey Club, the Grand Prix de Paris and the Prix-Royal Oak, as well as Russian Champion Anilin and his old foe Meadow Court.

What racegoers at Longchamp witnessed Sea-Bird do to his rivals was nothing short of incredible as he stormed to victory leaving his 19 rivals for dead.

Reliance drew clear from the remainder up the home straight but could not go with Sea-Bird who annihilated his opposition by six lengths, with a further five lengths back to the third-placed Diatome.

I rate Sea the Stars the best middle distance horse of my adult lifetime. Best horse Frankel and best performance Frankel ( Ascot )  Very interesting that Peter O'Sullevan thought STS was better than Sea-Bird or Ribot.

Howard, Sea Bird must have been exceptional but I am not convinced about a) being a 3-year-old b) the going  and c) the opposition.

As far as being a three year old is concerned we all know now what effect the allowances can have in the Arc.
The going was recorded as good but many thought it was soft at best.
The opposition could be questionable. The first 4 home were three French three-year-olds and a French four-year-old pacemaker. A Russian horse was fifth and an American three-year-old was fifth.
The nearest and best English horse had been thrashed in the St Leger on heavy ground.

The result has particular resonance with me because apparently it has been concluded that Sea Bird 11 only won by 4.5 lengths meaning his rating by Timeform, 1lb above Brigadier Gerad, was wrong all along.
Iam Balding has always been convinced Mill Reef would have beaten Sea Bird and he is not one to overrate his horses.

*Ian

Sea The Stars was a great horse and won all the right races yet in no way gets the respect he deserved. I don't have Frankel in my top 3 because he only ran in one classic and that was one of the poorest 2000 guineas fields I've seen. None of that was the fault of the horse but you can't just say he would have done this or would have done that because he was never asked to.

Very interesting Brigust. The American horse was a dirt performer albeit a very good one. In addition to French 3-y-o's dominating it seems like the English 3-y-o's were a pretty moderate bunch in '65.  The St Leger winner had previously won the Melrose H'cap at York. I take it that is the last time a Melrose runner won it.

brigust.....The result has particular resonance with me because apparently it has been concluded that Sea Bird 11 only won by 4.5 lengths meaning his rating by Timeform, 1lb above Brigadier Gerard, was wrong all along.





Sea Bird was being eased down all through that final furlong and swerved right across the course losing a few more lengths.

O’Sullivan was getting old when he came out with that comment.

Hayden - Storm Alert What's the odds on that , we both picked 5 and we have two same races

I've just gone back and looked at your five. Yes interesting you picked the Morley Street race. It was quite amazing to watch Bradley I think it was because he went to early the previous year. Carvill's Hill has to be there as it was demolition job off top weight.

Not watching the same race as you Sparrow. And horses often, not always, veer across the course when they can't find any more and in my opinion his jockey wasn't patting him down the neck he was trying to stop him hanging. It's not a criticism of a great horse he was probably running the fastest and facing the sternest test he had ever faced but no matter they said the winning distance was 6 lengths.

brigust.....I agree that the winning distance was exaggerated and would never normally expect to question your judgment over such matters but I do think that Sea Bird as well as Sea the Stars would get far more recognition had they been trained over here. I think Peter O'Sullevan would agree in both cases. There was one thing I will always remember you for and that was when you highlighted the madness of Excelebration being rated higher than Royal Palace and that to me was the clincher in the ratings argument regarding the Brigadier and Frankel.

Laurie,

You may have missed it, but i answered your query ref Clovenford on the Swedish Racing Today thread.

How about Rakti pulling robinson's arms apart to win the locking at newbury. Simply amazing

How about Rakti pulling robinson's arms apart to win the lockinge at newbury. Simply amazing

foxy , I fear there may be something in that. I wasn't surprised in the verdict because I did/do believe  STS to be better than Dancing Brave at 12f. Which makes him rather good. But old folks usually tend to say the old ones were the best so surprising.

Andrew the Stockholm Cup must be on a par with the Arc, don't you think. He was a tubby little Star, Clovenford. I hope he had a happy life at stud.

Peter also said it was a terrible name. I wouldn't agree with that tying in with the dam's name and half brother Galileo.

Laurie,

Certainly the closest we have in Sweden to the Arc, but it's only a G3 (run in September). There are no G1 and G2 races in Sweden.

This old folk Howard sides with a more recent one

You could be right Sparrow about STS and Dancing Brave. They have the same Timeform rating. Sadly STS's opponents never produced a lot and there are far more opportunities now than in '86. It would be a good race but I think DB would have too much speed. That is just my opinion of course.

Howard, it is not just the oldies.

Timeform list of horses rated 135 and above, born in every decade since Timeform started in 1948/57 rated 19, 1958/67 rated 13 (Sea Bird's decade),         
1968/77 rated 18 BG's decade, 1978/87 rated 18 (Dancing Brave's decade), 1988/97  rated 15, 1998/07 rated 4 (Sea the Stars decade)
and 2008/17  rated 3 (Frankel's decade).

So you see according to Timeform's own records the opposition to the top horses this century has been substantially weaker than previous years.

So horses that raced in 2 decades this century have produced 7 horses rated 135 and above so far. The worst two decades in the second half of the last century produced 28 horses rated 135 and above and the best two decades in the second half of the last century produced 37 horses rated 135 and above. And Timeform has confirmed time and again they use the same ratings. In fact a couple of their recent ratings of Cracksman and Battaash beggar belief. But I think after all I have been saying they are well aware what the list shows. How far are they prepared to go to change it? That is the question.

STS never really did much emphatically,he just did enough to win so the extent of his ability was questionably never obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb-ZsMgaH7s

This must rank amoung the best of those with no chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmzbEW1oSWc

My favourite horse of all time Harchibald, gunning down another old favourite Rooster Booster in an unforgettable race - I've never
seen one run like that. The best judgement of pace you'll ever see.

As good as Harchibald was,if his head was in the right place he could have beaten anything.