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Hibore
06 Feb 20 16:01
Joined:
Date Joined: 23 Jun 07
| Topic/replies: 2,739 | Blogger: Hibore's blog
Really !!!!! - £428,000


Getaway Trump

Racehorse Syndicate
Details: SEVEN-YEAR-OLD BAY GELDING
TRAINER: PAUL NICHOLLS (SOMERSET)
Pedigree:  Getaway ex Acinorev
Syndicate end date: 01 FEBRUARY 2021

Buy a Share for £107 (inc. VAT)
Getaway Trump ran with credit in two starts over fences in the autumn of 2019, before Paul Nicholls temporarily shelved that plan and switched the seven-year-old back to hurdles. Testing ground and a breathing issue meant that Getaway Trump did not shine in the Grade 1 Christmas Hurdle at Kempton on Boxing Day, but having now had a wind operation, Paul Nicholls is really looking forward to aiming for some exciting spring targets with the son of Getaway. He is likely to remain over hurdles for the rest of this season, before a possible return to fences in the autumn.
This syndicate term lasts until 1 February 2021, with no commitment to continue at the end of the syndicate period. Please click here for full details of the end of term process.

This syndicate is divided into 4,000 shares and each share costs £107 (including VAT). View price transparency. There will be nothing extra to pay, no matter what costs are incurred during the syndicate period. The syndicate is subject to the usual 'Owners Group' terms and conditions. The current maximum number of shares that can be purchased by one person is 10.
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Report the dealer February 6, 2020 5:44 PM GMT
Yes GREED has certainly got in the way, obscene imho
Report neill d February 6, 2020 5:52 PM GMT
you'd want to be very stupid
Report maleuk01. February 6, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
unreal!

Are there really 4,000 people that stupid?

£428,000 minus say £36,000 for training fees is £392,000 for a share of its prize money for 12 months. The horse isnt worth that for full ownership, never mind 12 months.

Do that for the next 5 years and the real owner has made a fortune.
Report maleuk01. February 6, 2020 6:24 PM GMT
If you arent gauranteed an owners ticket everytime it runs and entry to the parade ring, full pertentage of any onward sale and prize money then you arent an owner.

you are simply paying for someone else's hobby/fees.
Report ColeWorldNoBlanket February 6, 2020 6:30 PM GMT
Just bought 10 shares, wish I'd seen this comments first Cry
Report impossible123 February 6, 2020 6:30 PM GMT
That's steep. A benefit for the present owner/s. Does one get all the perks at racecourses each time the horse runs? Otherwise certification requires for the sucker taking up the offer.
Report tomhunt February 6, 2020 6:40 PM GMT
The share price is £107. The full price breakdown is:
The capital value of Getaway Trump is £250,000, which works out as £62.50 per share.
Our current management and service provision fee is set at £13.59 per share.
The all-inclusive racing/training cost is set at £7.50 per share.
The cost for mortality insurance is £5.45 per share.
The Racehorse Rehabilitation contribution is £0.13 per share.
The VAT is £17.83 per share.
There will be nothing extra to pay, no matter what costs are incurred during the syndicate period.
Report flushgordon1 February 6, 2020 6:46 PM GMT
250 k  wouldn't make that at auction.
Report wondersobright February 6, 2020 6:48 PM GMT
only whopping mugs need apply
Report SlippyBlue February 6, 2020 6:49 PM GMT
That is a complete joke.
Report bettysboy February 6, 2020 6:50 PM GMT
4000 shares? - what is the point?
Report maleuk01. February 6, 2020 6:50 PM GMT
£54,360 management fees.

Nice work if you can get it.

How is that horse for 1 year worth £250k? No way near it.

Though £30k training fees for  Nichols seems about right, though i guess that is £36k inc vat.

Someone is onto a nice earner here and it aint any of the 4,000 investors.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! February 6, 2020 6:57 PM GMT
Training fees slightly less than sending your
offspring to ETON

LaughLaughLaugh
Report 1st time poster February 6, 2020 6:58 PM GMT
ted walsh said all 4000 can come along for tera on sunday, LaughLaugh
Report Hibore February 6, 2020 6:59 PM GMT
Pentland Hills syndicate is full. God knows what that was charged at ?

£150 - £175 or more .....
Report wondersobright February 6, 2020 7:04 PM GMT
ted said the more the merrier

have 40,000 fellas if ya like
Report impossible123 February 6, 2020 7:05 PM GMT
4000 investors? 4000 plonkers more like unless Getaway Trump wins the King George at Ascot (not Kempton) or The Arc at Longchamp. You know the saying "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Report Hibore February 6, 2020 7:12 PM GMT
There will be nothing extra to pay, no matter what costs are incurred during the syndicate period.

At least if the horse is kidnapped you have the £250,000 ransom covered.
Report flushgordon1 February 6, 2020 7:14 PM GMT
I think Pentland hills was £50 I remember a friend saying she had bought her husband a share for his birthday.
Report themightymac February 6, 2020 7:34 PM GMT
Hibore LaughLaugh
Report impossible123 February 6, 2020 7:38 PM GMT
A classic sharp practice in operation exploiting the ignorance of amateur horse racing fans.
Report 3132 February 6, 2020 7:43 PM GMT
They have 40(+) horses now.

The Management Fee’s for those must run to Millions.

Buy New Horse -£80,000
Years Fee - £25,000
Travel/Agent/Pre-Train - Say 10,000

Sell 3200 Shares x £53 - Year 1

They then get another 3200 x £34 renewal in Year 2 - that’s when more big money rolls in as its only training fee they will have cost wise that year.

It’s some gig for Owners Group.
Report impossible123 February 6, 2020 7:51 PM GMT
A hole-in-the-wall for the operators. And, no adverse consequence eg no FCA on your back unlike The City of London. A licence to print free money!!
Report ribero1 February 6, 2020 8:45 PM GMT
Posted this before,about 5 years ago was having drink before dinner and got talking to a couple,don't think they're particularly wealthy but recently retired,kids flown the nest pensions etc and enjoy their racing (presumably these syndicates core market?),they told us about the horses THEY own,found it interesting,they explained the different syndicates as they'd been in them all,Elite bottom of the ladder and I think Axiom top?
It was obviously wife's passion and they went on most stable visits,told us Sir Mark was delightful and Pumpkin didn't want to know!
Saw them last festival as they came to our hotel for dinner and she told the wife their horse was running Pentland Hills,in fairness they always come up and have a bet with us and of course when it won they came to see us,wife asked if they'd been in parade ring etc but they said "oh no not allowed" but obviously over the moon going around telling everyone their horse had won and when we got back to the hotel that night the concierge said to me "we've had the owners of the first winner in last night!"
Bumped into them 2 weeks ago and he told me he had bought into one with Skelton.Obviously massive bloody con but I would have to say this couple love it and no doubt think they've had great value for money.
Report the dealer February 6, 2020 8:52 PM GMT
The idea to get people involved in racing is great, the majority probably do think it's good value. I have had this debate a few times on social media and judging by the replies, the owners cant see or don't want to see it's a massive rip off.
Report ribero1 February 6, 2020 9:00 PM GMT
Elite,Owners and Axiom same firm I believe?
Report 3132 February 6, 2020 9:09 PM GMT
Yeah all part of Wentrow group.
Report Cider February 7, 2020 9:14 AM GMT
The value of something is the market price, as long as there's transparency I don't have a problem with it. People willingly pay similar to watch 20 something year old multi-millionaires kick a football around from a distance for 90 minutes. And there's no chance of any change out of that.
Report kevo February 7, 2020 9:30 AM GMT
I suppose the people who buy into this get the same satisfaction as those who sponsor a Penguin or Polar Bear each month.
Report the dealer February 7, 2020 10:30 AM GMT
Cider it's not the money, it's the number of shares they sell in each horse that just doesn't sit right with me.
Report Hibore February 7, 2020 10:43 AM GMT
What is clever is that you are restricted to only 10 shares. They make you think that you need to buy them before they run out.
10 Shares in Getaway Trump is £1070 for a quarter % share. That is criminal.
Report impossible123 February 7, 2020 11:08 AM GMT
It's criminal the lease is only for 12 months; one could probably buy the horse outright with £428k £(4000x107); if the venture is renewed each year for 3 successive years the overall cost would be £(3 x 4000 x 107) = £1.284m (excluding training fees). The exorbitant price of £107 per share is to pay administration and salaries of directors of the entity.

Why not just buy a similar horse as Getaway Trump for about the same price (£400k/£500k), and then pay the training fees (£8k/9k) separately every quarter in advance? As such, one owns the horse outright, and not for a year. It's an absolutely no brainer.

Buying into the lease at £107 per share is akin to feathering the nest of the directors of the entity for sure.
Report ribero1 February 7, 2020 11:42 AM GMT
Agree with Dealer,its the amount of shares they sell that's not right but these syndicates are everywhere and I appreciate others are run differently but the bottom line is the people at the top are creaming it in but I guess the argument is if they are successful like say Middleham Park they deserve it.
Report Hibore February 7, 2020 12:20 PM GMT
Middleham Park is a totally different business model where most horses are syndicated among 6 - 10 owners (but we pay £1000's rather than £107). Just wanted to make that clear to those who may not be aware.

Agree rib, if owners group directors get away with it and make a fortune then good luck to them.
Report Cider February 7, 2020 12:39 PM GMT
The number of shares issued are freely available. For those that are participating, they know what they are getting (if they want to know), risk free, with a specific sunk cost (and a small chance of some return). It's not something I would entertain personally, but there are far worse things to get involved in. Fair play to the organisers if they can make the model work, it's not risk free for them.
Report DIE LINKE February 7, 2020 12:40 PM GMT
No shortage of marks in the racing game. Plenty of mugs for the tipsters, ownership clubs, bet brokers, here-today-gone-tomorrow bookies etc. to rinse.
Report Whippin Piccadilly February 7, 2020 2:21 PM GMT
I posted about this a couple of seasons ago. Getaway Trump only cost 90K
Report impossible123 February 7, 2020 2:27 PM GMT
It's a hobby/pastime/social event for members for a Racing Club, but definitely a business for the organisers/operators/owners of such outfits. Nevertheless, this outfit is mickey taking charging £107 per share with 4000 available.

No doubt if under-subscribed it will either be scratched or relisted with a few tweaks here and there to appeal to the suckers, naive and numbers illiterate.

Getaway Trump is a 7 yr old. Another 3 years as a racehorse on average - all things being equal; 3 x £107 x 4000 = £1.248m. A very lucrative business for the proprietors of these clubs given a horse of similar ability.

Out of curiosity how much did Getaway Trump cost?
Report impossible123 February 7, 2020 2:30 PM GMT
Thanks 'Whipping Piccadilly. That's shocking: £90k to buy outright, and the owners are asking for £428k to lease him for a year?
Report 1st time poster February 7, 2020 2:30 PM GMT
don't get it,any couple/person can walk around chelt pubs,racecourse saying their one of 4000 owners and get the same out of it as a bona fide member,wear a purple/black scarf for effect or do shareholders have a funny handshake,password,
its like buying a few shares in a football club and saying you own it
Report wondersobright February 7, 2020 2:31 PM GMT
exactly, it's the illusion of ownership

or should I say delusion
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! February 7, 2020 2:35 PM GMT
perhaps you should set up your own racing club?
At more realistic rates

Laugh
Report wondersobright February 7, 2020 2:36 PM GMT
I'll do it for £106 a share

howzat?
Report 1st time poster February 7, 2020 2:44 PM GMT
well they could use social media to form a group , use the same monies and nearly have half a million towards actually owning a horse and training fees
Report Whippin Piccadilly February 7, 2020 2:50 PM GMT
Nov 2017 Cheltenham November Sale (Tattersalls Cheltenham) 32 Calluna House Stables (Vincent Halley)Tom Malone/Paul Nicholls £90,000
Report impossible123 February 7, 2020 2:50 PM GMT
If I was horsey mad and had inclination of owning a horse I might. I'd try and pick up a Godolphin rag in the Sales at a bargain price. That would be a good start as any, I think. With £428k one could buy at least 3 horses and pay training fees for 3 future years too; 3 for the price of 1 - what's not to like for members?
Report Whippin Piccadilly February 7, 2020 2:57 PM GMT
I'd do the same. Or one of John Gosden's big owners who regularly move on their horses they feel won't make the very top grade.
Report buddeliea February 7, 2020 3:24 PM GMT
For around £1 a week for a year,one can have a bit of fun watching to see how a three year old moving stables from the flat to a NH yard,gets on when juvenile hurdling.
Chance of visiting stable and going to the races to see him/her race.
Appeals to me.
All those owners of Pentland Hills must have loved last season.

I prefer to look at it that way.
Report buddeliea February 7, 2020 3:35 PM GMT
Its less of a wind up that way, and less upsetting.
Report the dealer February 7, 2020 3:47 PM GMT
How many of the 3 thousand actually got a badge, how many actually got a stable visit ????
Report ribero1 February 7, 2020 3:53 PM GMT
Fair question dealer,the couple I met obviously have plenty of time on their hands and make themselves available probably at every opportunity and I guess have been on plenty of visits etc although obviously didn't make the cut for the big one last March.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! February 7, 2020 3:53 PM GMT
Its a
LOTTERY

Laugh
Report buddeliea February 7, 2020 3:57 PM GMT
Not many will visit the stable and less will get a badge, but its still only a quid a week.
Report Whippin Piccadilly February 7, 2020 3:57 PM GMT
The lease part of it is what I have a problem with. That's 3 seasons of leasing the same horse already and those in charge still own the horse that only cost 90K. I think anyone who gets involved in this is a mug.
Report the dealer February 7, 2020 4:00 PM GMT
Budd it's not the money it's the amount of shares
Report 1st time poster February 7, 2020 4:02 PM GMT
they surely cant sell every share.unless most by 10mshares ,20 shares a couple which greatly enhance chance of stable visit,s,badge for day etc
Report buddeliea February 7, 2020 4:04 PM GMT
Exactly,that's why a choose to look at it differently.
I dare say those who have forked out £50 quid or so will look at it that way as well.
Report the dealer February 7, 2020 4:11 PM GMT
Yes but that doesn't make it right
Report tomhunt February 7, 2020 4:14 PM GMT
notice they're ticking the equine welfare box @ 13p a share!

yet the management and service provision fee is set at £13.59 per share, nearly double the training cost!
Report themightymac February 7, 2020 4:37 PM GMT
Management Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OcM23Hbs5U
Report kublai February 7, 2020 7:18 PM GMT
Bought my Dad a microshare in a horse through Owners Group last year. £50 a year gets you a "connection" with a horse. Nothing really more than that but I would imagine most would know that. There is no chance of an "owner" making a profit via prize money but the excitement when the horse runs is real and different to the normal gambling side of things.

You get videos and magazines and we have been to Nicholls yard which was fascinating. (the trainer himself was present and an excellent host). Dads happy, im happy and if OG can turn a profit by giving customers an interest at a tiny outlay that's business.

I would concur that the renewal fee for Getaway Trump is somewhat excessive.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! February 7, 2020 7:25 PM GMT
Should have bought it as a  store
Only £5k

DevilGrinLaugh
Report Steamship February 7, 2020 7:31 PM GMT
Kublai how many members got to go to the open day? How many do they do in a year?
Report buddeliea February 7, 2020 7:38 PM GMT
Kublai summed it up.
Report Ibrahima Sonko February 7, 2020 9:07 PM GMT
I get being a part of the the ownership, a good thing.

But GT is valued at 250k for 1 season, saying he races for 5 seasons then his true value according to the syndicate is 1.25m, that isnt right.
Report happysandwich February 7, 2020 10:09 PM GMT
Just give your Grandma £107 to knit you a scarf in Getaway Trump colours.
Then mix in with the owners every time it runs.

Better still, get her an order for 4,000. Laugh
Report GAZO February 8, 2020 8:05 AM GMT
whoever runs this group is making a serious amount of money if that is just for one horse
Report 3132 February 8, 2020 7:22 PM GMT
How it works -

4000 Shares x £54 - Year 1
(this covers Purchase/Management Fee/Training Fee etc)

...

When Year 2 comes - say 3700 renew for Year 2 - they still own their share. The renew fee is something like £30-£37 for Year 2. That’s your Management Fee/Training Fees and you still own your 0.03%.

The 300 shares (not renewed) these people are then given 0.03% at horses value for their (Capital Share) plus Prize Money.

Owners Group then Re-Sell the 300 shares available to complete the syndicate again.

...

They make good money £50k-£75k in Year 1 at least.

Year 2 - 4000 renewals x £30 - they only have training fees as cost - £75k plus there as well profit.

...

Remember that’s per horse and they have 40 (+) so 40 x £75k is multi million pound business.
Report impossible123 February 9, 2020 10:26 AM GMT
The horsey knowledgeable and savvy operators are exploiting the naive enthusiasts and ownership wannabes. Using Getaway Trump as an example a £100k horse could generate as much as £500k over two years ie 5x capital outlay; 5 similar horses = 5 x £500k = £2.5m (easy money) over 2 years - a very good return/profit/revenue stream.
Report Cash Is King March 31, 2020 12:04 PM BST
A headline grabbing post for sure but slightly misleading because if existing shareholders retained their shares in early February then their annual cost was substantially less than the £107 per annum being paid by new shareholders because shareholders only pay the capital cost of the horse once (when they first join the syndicate as a shareholder), not each year.
Report Cash Is King March 31, 2020 12:06 PM BST
The fact that I've just posted on a 7 week old thread gives a clue as to how much time I currently have on my hands in this strange new locked down world that we find ourselves enduring.
Report ribero1 March 31, 2020 12:49 PM BST
Worrying time for some syndicates in the current climate no doubt.
Report the dealer March 31, 2020 1:00 PM BST
I would love to know the actual numbers still in full training, plenty will have pulled the plug and taken them elsewhere or purely paying for keep and horse walker.
very hard for trainers to know where they are with regards to this year.
Report ribero1 March 31, 2020 1:05 PM BST
I guess that's why Beckett and co are trying to put an optimistic slant on things.
Report the dealer March 31, 2020 1:07 PM BST
I doubt many would be ready for a May 1st return
Report ribero1 March 31, 2020 1:16 PM BST
We're involved in 2 horses and the monthly bill will be arriving tomorrow and not expecting any reduction in fees yet.
Report the dealer March 31, 2020 1:29 PM BST
yeah you are probably right,
Report ENGLANDBARNES1 March 31, 2020 2:40 PM BST
On another note, Getaway Trump is crying out for further on decent ground next season on pedigree.
Report kevo March 31, 2020 3:36 PM BST
And many who bought the shares are just crying.
Report the dealer March 31, 2020 3:51 PM BST
I wonder how many will be asking for their 50 quid back, if we don't get back till later in the year or maybe they will give them all a free year Grin
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