Help Request

Have to admit have never placed a bet at BFSP so can't help, was there a late NR possibly? Sure someone will know.

there was a NR in the race - which horse did you attempt to back

The winner!

whoops- dunno what happened there then   , at least it was only a tenner

Did you just miss the Off?

I trial a lot of different angles on Betfair using bsp (just place the bets on the morning) so have put on hundreds and hundreds of bets at bsp over the years but have never seen one lapse before. I wouldn’t have thought it possible though Betfair claiming it is. Given you can’t cancel an sp bet seems wrong that they can in effect cancel it.

The bet was placed in the morning - according to Betfair simply lapsed because there was no sp match (tho they declared a bsp).

The only thing that could have happened was that you did not confirm the bet.

What time was the NR withdrawn, if after you placed your bet would that cancel your bet, sorry i don't know and just putting a few feelers out for you.

The bet was confirmed (it has an id) - it simply lapsed because it wasn’t matched. If it was a simple order then fair enough but it was at sp so should be automatically matched at the off. Non runners do not impact back bets at sp - you just get lower odds.

Have you contacted betfair yet?

If you have an ID they dont have a leg to stand on ",if"

surely somebody has to lay the SP for there to be money there. betfair aren't going to lay your bets on an exchange

Sorry just noticed that you have spoke to betfair.

X matching betting masta?

Aug 29, 2019 -- 2:00PM, betting_masta wrote:

surely somebody has to lay the SP for there to be money there. betfair aren't going to lay your bets on an exchange

Really ??

there's got to be money there. somebody has to lay sp so if nobody layed sp or if all the sp money was already taken it would lapse - i assume. i dont know

the lay money doesn't just appear out of nowhere ..... or does it

if that is the case it still seems odd there wouldnt be money there on a 2nd fav in a 4 horse race.

bm, if the lay money was always matched to the back money available the consequent odds (BFSP) would often be nothing like the last price matched before the off. I have never had a BFSP bet not matched (have hundreds a week) so BF must be undertaking some of the laying/backing.

Yes, I have spoken with Betfair who confirm the bet exists but it lapsed. I am awaiting someone to come back to me to explain the circumstances of how it could happen but thought I’d see if anyone else had ideas. My understanding is that any sp bets existing at the off are matched against existing offers at the off to determine a Betfair sp. For an sp bet not to be matched there must have been more sp back bets than both sp lay bets and existing open lays at the off. However, I have never ever seen this before and based on the amount of sp bets vs open bets I find it quite hard to believe. Fundamentally it can not be fair that an sp bet can not be cancelled by the punter but can in effect by the exchange (normal orders can lapse but equally punter can cancel at any time). An Sp bet which you can’t cancel but don’t know whether you are on or not until after the off doesn’t sit right.

Yes, I have spoken with Betfair who confirm the bet exists but it lapsed. I am awaiting someone to come back to me to explain the circumstances of how it could happen but thought I’d see if anyone else had ideas. My understanding is that any sp bets existing at the off are matched against existing offers at the off to determine a Betfair sp. For an sp bet not to be matched there must have been more sp back bets than both sp lay bets and existing open lays at the off. However, I have never ever seen this before and based on the amount of sp bets vs open bets I find it quite hard to believe. Fundamentally it can not be fair that an sp bet can not be cancelled by the punter but can in effect by the exchange (normal orders can lapse but equally punter can cancel at any time). An Sp bet which you can’t cancel but don’t know whether you are on or not until after the off doesn’t sit right.

Devilsadvocate - I to back hundreds of these but have never seen it before.

As someone said earlier if you have a Bet ID no, then it's been layed surely!

@stewarts - "What time was the NR withdrawn, if after you placed your bet would that cancel your bet"

It absolutely does not. 

Like others, I have placed BSP bets most days for the last 9ish years and (unless you set an odds limit) they don't lapse.

@Ormonde - I take it you didn't set an odds limit?

Even if there were no BSP layers of that runner, the BSP matching process also takes in unmatched Exchange money at the off - there would have to be no layers at any price not to match.

Which race, which horse please?

Agree with longbridge.

Betfair brought in the 'Cross-Matcher' at SP Reconciliation, a few years ago, whereby any SHORTFALL in the BSP Market is  allocated PRE-Race Market UNmatched funds to the MATCH such SP bets.

Ormonde has been using Betfair for years, and appears to be a rational and extremely experienced user.

I too await with interest an explanation to this apparently 'impossible' situation.

Detailed explanation of how it works here, for those who enjoy such things (I do):

https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/FAQs_detailedWorkings.html

@devilsadvocate


"if the lay money was always matched to the back money available the consequent odds (BFSP) would often be nothing like the last price matched before the off. I have never had a BFSP bet not matched (have hundreds a week) so BF must be undertaking some of the laying/backing."

It's not BF, it the unmatched pool of normal exchange bets (see above for details).  And if enough money arrives late in the SP market ("take SP if unmatched" bets the usual cause I think) the BSP can be a long way from last price matched - I recall a French race years ago where the winner traded at 30ish just before the off but a load of late money smashed the BSP down to single figures.

Longrbridge - I think similar once happened with a McManus/McCoy runner in the Grand National - 10/1 ish ISP and about 44.00 BSP!

@TM

Are you thinking of Shutthefrontdoor in the 2015 GN?  Went off 28 BSP and 7 ISP, but I think that was less anything arcane about the BSP and more sentimental recreational punters backing McCoy in his last GN and the books smashing in the on-course market to protect themselves.

Or did you have something else in mind?  I have a feeling there was a year when one runner went off at a BSP much shorter than ISP, but I'm struggling to pin it down any more than that.

Hi Longbridge,

I struggle with my own childrens names, so horse names from more than a week ago have got no chance unless they won a classic! - It was indeed Shutthefrontdoor - where there was a very large/odd disparity between ISP and BSP. Thank you.