Nobody has thought to mention - Crystal Ocean is STILL...

boys are better than girls is older than man lands on moon ffs

One acronym for you - WFA!

Unless you count Doyle as a 3lb penalty.

Danedream, Zarkava, Triptych, Dahlia, Treve all rubbish in reality

Don't forget Allez France who beat Dahlia every time they met which was 6 in all.

the dahlias in my garden are. slugs all over em

Enable had to overcome a difficult draw, caught out wide, dropped to back of the field, while Crystal Ocean got the perfect trip. She still won a shade cosily for me, look forward to the rematch in the Arc

He only gave her one tap of the whip!!

They have 'run to the pound'

In fact - there could be a case for saying that the Official Handicappers will have to put the THIRD horse - Waldgeist UP by a couple of pounds - to 124.

1  Enable 8/15F
Frankie Dettori John Gosden     5-9-4     125
       
Trapped out wide 1st 4f, held up in last quartet, progress over 4f out, closed quickly from 3f out to lead 2f out, shaken up and pressed by runner-up after, narrow but decisive lead last 100yds and mostly pushed out near finish (op 8/13 tchd 4/6)

2 (nk) Crystal Ocean 7/2  James Doyle Sir Michael Stoute 5-9-7     127
   
Tracked clear leaders, progress to go 2nd 3f out, led over 2f out but soon pounced on by winner and narrowly headed, fought on bravely and still upsides inside final furlong, narrowly but clearly held last 100yds

3 (1¾) Waldgeist 12/1 Pierre-Charles Boudot A Fabre 5-9-7     122
   
Held up in midfield, headway over 3f out, 5th over 2f out, soon progress under pressure to chase leading pair, never able to challenge and but stayed on well and edged closer near finish

Nijinksy was getting a stone from Blakeney when he won the King George

She's solid and very consistent and her last few runs tie together nicely.
She's not the second coming though, the ITV crew get way too ott about her, imo

A-T you don't understand wfa obviously

A-T you don't understand wfa obviously
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Neither do the fillies.

Enable is the most accomplished European racehorse of all-time.

There are three horses that have won the KG twice.
There are eight hores that have won the Arc twice.

There is one horse that has done both.

If Enable had balls she´d be rated 150, but as it stand we are supposed to believe that she was never the top horse in either 2017, 2018 or 2019.

They did mention it on ITV.

Enable would have still won at levels imo.

Seems to me that a number of people are never going to rate Enable as a great horse,  but what more does she have to do to prove it to them?

What is the argument for suggesting that Crystal Ocean was anything other than flattered to finish so close to Enable?

Similar passages and Enable wins by as far as she wants to. That is probably why this headline was overlooked.

A-T you don't understand wfa obviously


No I understand it perfectly, thanks.

everyone been saying crystal ocean this that and the other, all hes done is 1 group 1 win over 10 furlongs v magical, btn 6 lengths by cracksman last year , won a group 2 beating red vardian, the rest is consistent group 3 wins , why is he such a super horse, a very overated horse id say.

Seems to me that a number of people are never going to rate Enable as a great horse,  but what more does she have to do to prove it to them?

Enable commits the sin of always winning and sometimes not winning all that - and when she does it's because she as a 1000lb filly carries 3lb less than a colt. Whereas horses like Cracksman who get beat a lot are forgiven all the losses and rated on one or two flashy performances.

*all that far

Enable is the most accomplished European racehorse of all-time.

she isn't in timeforms top 100 of all time, so I guess they are wrong with all of those horses

PHS
27 Jul 19 18:03
Joined: 16 May 03 | Topic/replies: 9,040 | Blogger: PHS's blog
They did mention it on ITV.

Enable would have still won at levels imo.

two chances of that.

none and none at all

It is clearly not a quality era of flat racing but....Enable & Crystal Ocean are the best around.
As for the 3 year old middle distance horses  .....they are very poor.
It might be a long time before we see another Derby winner try this race.

I think it is pretty difficult to put an accurate rating on Enable as increasingly she appears to be just doing enough. It's a cliche but she can only keep beating those around and she has now done that over three years.

If you want to you can throw negatives at all horses. Most people these days use Frankel as a benchmark but he didn't race beyond four, didn't travel and had a limited range of distance. He didn't win an Eclipse, King George or an Arc. Personally, I don't think he raced in a great era either.

he beat marco bottis horse every time though

Very much agree different drum and Frankel's 2000 guineas field was one of the worst fields I can remember.

frankel would have beaten enable by 10 lengths at wfa

in an arc,eclipse or KG

please?

10f

Unfortunately Frankel was never allowed to run in any of these races so we will never know. It's simply not enough to say he would've done this or would've done that as the horse never went further than 10f and never further than York either.

lets not introduce personal biases into what is ultimately a question of mechanics

mechanics of a discussion,but the anatomy of a horses physical limitations are only supposition

Personal biases....question of mechanics?

no prob mate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDA0Hecw1k

Enable is the most accomplished European racehorse of all-time.

she isn't in timeforms top 100 of all time, so I guess they are wrong with all of those horses
_____________________________
Is that the same publication that rates Cracksman higher than Enable, Treve, Danedream, Winx and Zarkava?

Cracksman beating a six year old Czech Gr.3 horse by 6L really should rank almost ten pounds higher than Danedream beating one of the deepest Arc fields by five length in record time.

Timeform is a shadow of its former self, not worth looking at and taking note of anything they publish.

for me i think the last great year was 2000, sinndar , giant causeway, montjeu, fantastic light,crimplene, aljabr,kalanisi,

The problem about abolishing the fillies allowance is that you would get even fewer competing against the colts,there is hardly a shortage of pattern races confined to them these days.
I HAVE often wondered about the w-f-a allowance. Bustino on the day was certainly a better horse than Grundy and as has been mentioned above it's quite probable that Blakeney would have beaten Nijinsky at levels. Maybe there is a case for making the top races for 4-y-os and up and giving 3-y-os their own programme,but I must admit I can see a lot of problems with that.

scrapping the weight for age allowance would be a good way to encourage the owners of champion 3yo colts to run them at 4. I don't think anyone would take them that seriously as stallions until they had done it against fully-developed horses

Dark Angel was intentionally retired after his 2-y-o career because his connections thought he would probably not be a great 3-y-o. Now a leading sire. Teofilio never ran after 2 either,though that was because of injury. Coolmore retired a top 2-y-o of theirs to replace the infertile George Washington. Back in the day the legendary The Tetrarch never ran beyond two either.
There would almost certainly continue to be a trend to retire 3-y-os even if they hadn't run in the very top races.

my thoughts on yesterdays King George is Coolmore will try ANY dirty tactic to win a group 1,their horses,m spread out leaving a gap for their fav..Enable ran further than any other horse in the race..Well done her and another great tactical race by Frankie