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6.50 she gets fewer and fewer rides and no wonder after tonights mess up on Phil mcs red hot fav in the race , All connections attended and punted what they were told was a penalty kick before the horse would go up in grade , I try not to judge rides but tonight beggars belief , I had two bets lined up tonight this was one of them but seemed far too short thank goodness , The horse a sprinter lost a shoe going to post , Did she tell the starter so it could be reshod or did she just think it will be alright , you guess , A sprinter with the cash down really with three shoes , Im sure she must know sprinters have won with lost shoes , but talk about poor judgement ,,,
im told the mood was dark after the horse was unsaddled as she scuttled away ,
i would be very surprised if she ever rides for the stable again ,i did say to my contact on the course did she know it had come off , he was quite adamant she saw if fly off ,
it may be a different story if the trainer was told about it and agreed to its running , but it seems unlikely ,
i wonder if there will be a belated inquiry ,,
im told the mood was dark after the horse was unsaddled as she scuttled away ,
i would be very surprised if she ever rides for the stable again ,i did say to my contact on the course did she know it had come off , he was quite adamant she saw if fly off ,
it may be a different story if the trainer was told about it and agreed to its running , but it seems unlikely ,
i wonder if there will be a belated inquiry ,,
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Replies: 44
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Kemo I can understand your anger and believe me I am the opposite of sexist when it comes to jockeys.I would not let her ride a rocking horse,the idiots who are responsible for making her head bigger than it is entitled to be work for ITV and the PR people of Godolphin et al.
Bryony Frost is going to have a hard time this year if the media keep pushing,as will all the other female jockeys.Gordon though is not as good as she or they believe she is. |
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hers is a funny case , she had everything but as you say got a bit ahead of herself , , she then i suppose got her head down and worked her way back , yet all the second div jockeys are so vulnerable to trainers opinion , i just cant see why she didnt feel able to say ,,, hang on a minute the horse has lost a shoe ,,, i suppose she felt unable to say it , ; I wasnt angry , mostly as i didnt punt it cos it was evens and shorter earlier ,,, yet i could easily have played up clifford ride on michael bells at thirsk , i def dodged the bullet ,
its too hot up here tonight so im trying to get to sleep by tring to find out if the magnier horse in the 6.10S can jump , only three runners and i know nico has done intensive work on kings ride to try to stop it jumping left , I tend not to punt JJs , but the owners dont waste their time with horses that cant do the bizz , If memory serves the horse has scope and size , but can it jump ,,, Hmmm thats the issue , |
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PHILIPINE COBRA, trained by Phil McEntee, ran without its right fore shoe as the trainer had not indicated at declaration stage that the filly should be withdrawn in the event of losing a shoe on the way to post.
Following the race, Josephine Gordon reported that PHILIPINE COBRA, which started favourite and finished fifth, was never travelling, |
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Phil McEntee has been one of her biggest supporters. Interesting to see if he jocks her up again.
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cheers 1830 , thats the blatant facts , for good or bad ,,, it doesnt say if the trainer was asked if at the start should it run , just watched the race ,,, to say never travelled is understatement ,,, plus the drift indicates some watchful people had seen it ,,
i dont wish her ill but at the moment in her career she cant afford the owners falling out with her , lets hope it just passes and she get the ride next time |
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The trainer isn't asked at the start. They sign the declaration form before the race and indicate what happens if the horse loses a shoe. If they don't tick to withdraw the horse it runs. I have no idea what this nonsense about blaming Gordon for it is all about really.
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Marcce, as you use to be the forums Hayley expert, where has the Palmer/Gordon bubble burst iyo?
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the position is clarified , he signed the paper ,,, so why was he so annoyed trying to explain to the owners what had happened,,, maybe he should have said its my fault , and said what he signed ; im told that didnt happen ,
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it doesnt stop the question being asked why didnt she point out to the starter that the shoe was an issue ,,, and insisting he rang the trainer about pulling it out , or is that not allowed ,, this was a heavily punted fav not a no hoper
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That is a very valid point Kemo,regardless of being fav or not and regardless of whether the trainer ticked a box.He would still have the option to have the horse reshod if contacted by the starter unless I have missed a change in rules.I stand to be corrected if wrong.
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stand by
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ahh i thought the suggestion was as he had ticked the box the re shod wasnt possible ,,, i like you understood it was still possible ; let me say ive had horses and part of the job of the jockey is horse welfare , I had a horse that ran on good ground at yarmouth and after the race was told by the pilot jamie spencer ; that no matter what else i did with the horse it mustnt run ever on ground said to be good but was firm , if it was firm i had to withdraw it , the horses legs wouldnt stand it , to me this is similar ,,, if i was the owners and learned like them afterwards the horse was not shod properly i would have been really annoyed ; The fact that i had done my cash wouldnt have helped but i can honestly say not as much as the danger to the horse with a FUTURE ,,, thats the trainers words before the race ,
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This is the rule. Again, I have no idea why they're blaming the jockey.
35.3 In making a decision on withdrawal, the Starter must have regard to any preference which, in accordance with Rules (C)36.2 and (C)36.3 (other requirements affecting equine welfare), the Trainer of the horse has indicated on the list of declared runners given to the Starter. 35.4 Where 35.4.1 one of the plates is removed from a horse at the start or is shed on the way to, or at, the start, and 35.4.2 a farrier is present at the start and replating is possible, the Starter may approve replating if he considers that there is sufficient time for replating to take place or that the race can be delayed while the horse is replated, but if loading into the stalls has commenced for a flat race, approval will be given only in exceptional circumstances. And Delta I have no idea. You were always the resident gossip on here as I remember so any ideas? |
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So we are not wrong then marcce? As to blaming the jockey surely that is self explanatory,she should have told the starter otherwise how is he and consequently the trainer supposed to know? How can a decision be made,seems clear she decided on their behalf?
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I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion glentoby. To clarify, the declaration form, signed 45 minutes before the race by the trainer or his rep, gives a specific instruction what is to happen if the horse is found to have lost a shoe at the start. The trainer can sign to instruct an automatic withdrawal. That being the case why must the starter contact the trainer again when the whole purpose of the instruction is to avoid any confusion in the first place?
If the trainer felt so strongly why didn't he request a withdrawal on the form provided to do that? In not doing so, at very best they were relying on the starter's discretion to allow reshoeing. |
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Are you missing the point kemo made or am I missing something? If she did not inform the starter the horse had lost a shoe then how can either he or the trainer make a decision regardless of boxes ticked?
Are they psychic? |
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If she hadn't informed the ruddy starter how the hell was there an announcement made at the course that the horse had lost a shoe and would be running without? Why were Alex Hammond and Jason Weaver expressing doubts on Sky Racing about the horse's chances running without a front shoe? Maybe they were psychic hey?
I'll repeat, I have no idea why they'e blaming the jockey. |
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Ok fair enough,as I said did I miss something? Obviously I did,probably important but does not sway my opinion of the jockey.
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I thought you were aware that it had been announced the horse was running without so apologies if you weren't. You're entitled to your view on the jockey. I don't have any real opinion on her either way as it goes but in this instance I can't see how she could have been blamed for what happened.
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Neither can I marcce.......at least we maybe cleared up kemo's issue if not helping his disappointment.
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as i had no bet on the race i didnt watch it until the following morning , i was told that connections were not aware until after the race that the horse lost a shoe , the point i was tring to make was why they didnt know ,, maybe they were not paying attention to the course announcement , im quite happy to accept yr facts on the announcement and the regs around the issue of shedding of shoes ,
i had no bet on the horse but i knew connections were going in pretty deep because of trainers total confidence ,,, They did their cash , which happens in each race , i think that perhaps the trainer didnt hold up his hands and say before the race im going to withdraw it ,,, if he knew the problem ;;; or if he didnt why didnt he , just because its on TV doesnt mean everyone knew , i am surprised the jockey didnt assume responsibility and say to the starter to get on the phone to the trainer ,,, the numbers are there to do just that , if i owned the horse i can def say if i was asked when it lost a shoe , withdraw it , this was one of the trainers best horses , , i dont wish to put anything on the jockeys shoulders that isnt true ,,, youve explained the rules , im happy they were complied with , ive learned some new things so thanks , |
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Marcce 23 Jul 19 20:55
This is the rule. Again, I have no idea why they're blaming the jockey. They are blaming the jockey because they always do. |
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kemo sabe 23 Jul 19 00:00
i would be very surprised if she ever rides for the stable again ,i did say to my contact on the course did she know it had come off , he was quite adamant she saw if fly off , tomorrow 9 6 750322 Sweet Forgetme Not tv 1 8 3 8-4 1 Phil McEntee 43 Josephine Gordon |
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ive learned from the thread ist of all the rules around it , my main point was i was surprised she didnt ask the starter to check , im happy to be wrong and she gets rides for the stable ,,, so alls well that ends well ; i hope she wins tonight and indeed she gets the ride on the other one next time , you live and learn ,
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yet the main question i would ask you if you had put a big bet on the horse at Evens and the jockey saw the shoe fly off , would you want the jockey to get the horse re shoed before it ran and if not get it withdrawn , the rules are incidental to that , im not convinced she even thought about it and nothing ive heard since tell me she was fussed about it , do the rules say that getting it re shod wasnt allowed
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not her decsion is it - already covered
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this is when the shoe went imo
 https://twitter.com/i/status/1153298185495953408 |
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ok i accept yr thoughts cheers
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No offence kemo, but that was like plaiting treacle
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Indeed it was.
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yes lets get back to real flyers and horses i am punting , rather than ones i didnt , like the similie of plaiting treacle though
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Phil just sayed HE didnt bother ticking B on Monday @ Windsor as he never does ..
Filly off to race in USA now kemo' you didnt text him on Monday did you?  |
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best system going - whoever just got slated, get on next time :D
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Was Phil taking a swipe at kemo sabe there!
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..reading between the lines s r ...
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KS had a decent bet on it, hence spouting bollox about 'shoegate', he didnt mind losing the money it was just that he was lunching with 2 trainers and a Nobel Prize winner and he told them to lump on.
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