"does running uphill offset the firmness?"

the answer is yes (sort of)

It can work but a cold shower is usually considered most effective.

Ramruna, you've offered no evidence and failed to give any examples, so sorry, but I'm ruling your reply as 'inadmissible'.

Careful mouse, sudden reduction in body temperature can cause shock and lead to a coronary arrest, and it wouldn't be nice for the ambulance people if they turned up at your house and discovered 'rigor mortis' had already set in!


But as for Naughton, it's like watching a little boy in awe of a trainer and asking a question that after around 30 years following racing, he really ought to know the answer to himself, even if in this instance, it's all unscientific, opinion and ultimately 'noise'!

Ramruna, you've offered no evidence and failed to give any examples, so sorry, but I'm ruling your reply as 'inadmissible'.

kate bush, aug 1985 - running up that road, we're running up that hill … no problem

qed innit

It's like when you ride a bike up a hill your bodyweight is transferred backwards so you've got less of it on the front end like your arms in this instance,or running up hills your bodyweight is tilted backwards so is easier on the knees in my last running stint I couldn't run downhill for this reason.
So in horses a % of weight will be shifted to the rear which otherwise would've been putting pressure on the knees so could help some high knee types on quicker ground.

So in reality, a lot of perceived soft ground horses win at Beverley on 'firmish' going because running uphill is offsetting the firmness?

I'll be honest with you, I'm struggling to think of any examples.

There's less of a 'pounding action' running up hill than on a straight or even worse, running down hill.
So the firm ground probably isn't as bad running up hill as it causes less stress on the horses (or humans) joints.  HTH

As denzil says, he and Naughton are indeed, correct.

So far it's all theoretical, and I thank you for the well thought replies, but we are currently bereft of any actual examples.

I take the point, but it's probably an angle that would find you 3, maybe 4 winners in a good year.

Think of climbing a ladder ,...going down you "drop your weight" but, going up you're pulling it.I think going up hill is akin to something in between and you wouldn't put down so heavily when climbing....my guess.

walked up and down Snowden the other year and it was hell on the knees coming down...i guess when you're running uphill, each stride is marginally shorter than an average (on level) stride, and the opposite (ie marginally longer) when running downhill, so makes sense

Judging by the lack of actual examples (none to be precise), I think mouse might have nailed in it in his 14.01 post, and with respect, that's probably an over-estimation.

2, maybe 3, George.

I'm happy to settle for that, mouse, and conclude that the theory that running uphill offsets the firmness and can help soft ground horses perform as they would on a soft surface, is for the trees and the birds.

It's more about trainers taking a chance letting them run where they'd otherwise be pulled out,have read quotes in the past on RP analysis where trainers have let them run because the finish is 'on the collar' when otherwise they wouldn't,nobody can quantify the number of winners in a year you'd have maybe best asking racing professionals for examples and reasons which aren't simple physics like evidence of injuries and the like.

Don't know how that would be done mind you.

You'd have to know for certain which had dodgy legs and which were genuine mudders.

https://www.equisearch.com/discoverhorses/riding-horses-on-hills-22755

Basic science, it's not a matter of being right or wrong I'm afraid, it's fact.

Mouse may well be correct it will have no baring on finding winners mind you but there's no question it will be easier on the horses joints
running up hill than down hill.

Gravity I think Newton called it...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17402462

Thinking about, the implication in some of the posts on this thread is that it's a soundness issue [ James Dean: "but there's no question it will be easier on the horses joints"], but a preference for softer ground doesn't necessarily imply a soundness issue, rather that a horse's action is best suited to softer surface, whatever the gradient.

the answer is yes

Anyone who has ever had cartilaginous (meniscus) trouble in their knees knows that climbing stairs is a lot less painful than descending them...

At Beverley, or any other racecourse.

no stairs at beverley is there?

not many races either

6-8 a meeting

Keep up Hugo. Topical joke. It was 3 last time, then they abandoned the meeting.

Hugo probably spent an hour or more searching before he found and then resurrected this 7 year-old topic.

To add insult to injury he posts a comment and jumps straight into Ramruma's net!

Not that you are at all obsessed,top2

t2r gets an E Wreckshun when he spots a ressa reckshun.

definetly does as a male athlete