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Disgusting if true
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Been said on ITV Racing that Corals are restricting bets to 5 and 6 folds for today
And that the final 2 races are going SP only by Coral cos of multiple bets on Frankie Dettori's rides.
And that the final 2 races are going SP only by Coral cos of multiple bets on Frankie Dettori's rides.
It's a pathetic behaviour by the sponsor of The Eclipse. Just another example of herd-mentality from the bookies eg fobt (easy money), and now public restriction implemented. No doubt this will be the norm concerning Dettori esp at weekends, and big meetings. I firmly believe the relevant racing body/authority need to nip this in the bud by threatening a withdrawal of Betting/Gaming Licence from these betting entities.
Chappers giving the Coral suit hard time.
If Muchly wins Enable goes 4/6?
If Muchly wins Enable goes 4/6?
Spokesman on ITV
Said what we saw at Ascot was forms build up big liabilities that they couldn’t pay out.
:o
Said what we saw at Ascot was forms build up big liabilities that they couldn’t pay out.
:o
Big respect to Chappers there. He's marmite and lots can't stand him, personally I like him, but he's the only one who is prepared to give these 'bookmaking' conmen a hard time in public and should be commended for doing so.
Keep it Chappers...McCricrick would have given these sycophants no quarter; the pathetic Coral rep wished he'd not worn that easy-to-spot suit - he'll be noticed at the course for the entire meeting.
corals dave stevens absolutely ripped to pieces on live tv 
at you david ...
at you david ...
So according to C orals guy (who looked like he’d had a couple of drinks and a line) we were 1 race away from a few firms going broke lol
WELL SAID MATT CHAPMAN !
Stevens is a typical P R man.... ala that other idiot Simon Clare !
Stevens is a typical P R man.... ala that other idiot Simon Clare !
That guy that Matt was speaking to was arrogant and trying to make excuses.
They no longer have the facility to hedge directly into the on-course market . A decision that was eventually gonna come back and bite 'em . Serves 'em right .
Cheers , Reynard (former racecourse employee but not bitter ........... much!)
Cheers , Reynard (former racecourse employee but not bitter ........... much!)
They tried to convince the public and their "friends" in Parliament about the misconception of fobt, but they were found to be economical with the truth, big time hence a massive reduction from £100 a spin to £2. Now, once again they are trying to convince the public their refusal to accept accas of Dettori rides was not a restriction. Which school did he go to?
Telling a blatant lie in public, and infront of live tv for money is part of his job. A complete tool!
Telling a blatant lie in public, and infront of live tv for money is part of his job. A complete tool!
i was quite impressed by matt there ,,, i put a five timer multi on haggas this morning , the guy on the counter said its not dettori is it , cos if it is i cant take it
but wasnt coral taking bets of dettori pu to a 5 fold accum ?
Chappers having to apologise there, methinks, in a round-about way. His paymasters had a rocket off Corals I expect 
Nevertheless, the damage has been done; biggest day of their sponsorship, but the public restriction took centre stage.
agree with leif, stevens ran off to the boss and complained. chappers clearly made to come on and say something nice about the filth. laughable.
Valid point by Chappers but may have been a little raw. Hills culled a third of its estate and Cor/Lad about to announce the same you'd possibly speculate.
Sponsorship is about to get slashed and with many vested interests he may have hit a few nerves
Sponsorship is about to get slashed and with many vested interests he may have hit a few nerves
Shhh! Keep it to yourself.
Frankie may have 7 rides at Ascot's Qipco King George day next Saturday.
Top Trumps to anyone who sneaks a 7 timer BGO past 'em
Frankie may have 7 rides at Ascot's Qipco King George day next Saturday.
Top Trumps to anyone who sneaks a 7 timer BGO past 'em
U can still av em but the last 2 selections must be at SP.
U can still av em but the last 2 selections must be at SP.
instead of doing a £5 6 fold and have SP the last 2
just do a £100 treble the last three and take the prices
simples
just do a £100 treble the last three and take the prices
simples
Pathetic. Bookmakers are a cancer on the sport that wont go away. Chapman should have stuck to his guns.
Like Poundland take your custom elsewhere.
A bad day for Corals; their interpretation, understanding and denial of restriction on punters were succinct and irrevocable in "that" interview with their racecourse pr rep. The recent redundancies announced is also a direct result of their error in business strategy undertaken about 15 years ago for the reliance solely on fobt for short-term gain is their making too, and not horse racing induced.
I was astounded the idiotic bookie PR rep brought up the definition of "bookmaking" when Chappers accused the bookies of restricting and closing of (winning) accounts of punters accounts - his paymasters must be pleased with his performance today. The question is...will he be culled post this candid admission?
I was astounded the idiotic bookie PR rep brought up the definition of "bookmaking" when Chappers accused the bookies of restricting and closing of (winning) accounts of punters accounts - his paymasters must be pleased with his performance today. The question is...will he be culled post this candid admission?
The bookmakers could just withdraw early prices from the last two races OR bet the rest of the runners with Frankie's horses set to SP Only
Why not simply slash the early morning prices on all Dettori runners and ease the price of every other runner ? Market forces surely ?
Can they not hedge them eg send money back to the track (or here) like previous? They cannot be greedy and moan at the same time when results do not go entirely their way.
Reynard, that ain't gonna happen as the early prices will either provide arbing opportunities on other runners (and god help you if you back one of those) or EP books will become massively over round.
The trouble with Frankie (and to a lesser extent SDS) he is the only truly multiple bet jockey these days.
The trouble with Frankie (and to a lesser extent SDS) he is the only truly multiple bet jockey these days.
Coral on-course reps were dispensed with when Gala got involved . The general belief , held by non-bookmaking accountants/advisors , was that hedging could be done via the exchanges . Whilst , in theory , this should be possible it is a recognised fact that the effectiveness of hedging is not totally dependant on weight of money . There are other factors which require a physical presence in the betting ring in order to facilitate efficient hedging/liability control .
Thanks. I do understand now. Indeed, hedging on The Exchange is not totally dependent on the weight of money; purely a case of non-bookmaking, but bean counters/advisors have little grasp of the business.
Put it this way : A seven-fold acca running on to a 10/1 chance in the last race at Carlisle this evening would require no more than £5k to force it down to 9/2 or 5/1 . A seven-fold acca running on to a 5/2 shot in the last at Ascot in 1996 required £250,000 from just one off-course firm just to keep it from returning 2/1 and that is not including the money sent down from the other firms !
Coral respond after Matt Chapman slams firm on ITV over Dettori multiples
By Stuart Riley
UPDATED 7:46PM, JUL 6 2019
Coral have hit back over comments made by Matt Chapman during ITV's coverage of the bookmaker-backed Eclipse day at Sandown on Saturday, in which the presenter labelled the firm "absolutely pathetic" for offering starting price (SP) only on legs five and six of any Frankie Dettori accumulators.
The firm, who were angered by the nature of Chapman's attack, cited the threat of spiralling liabilities on Frankie Dettori's mounts for the decision.
Chapman said on ITV: "Absolutely pathetic bookmaking from Coral restricting fivefolds and sixfolds today. Basically what Coral are saying is we do not want you to win. What a pathetic attitude from a bookmaker, they really need to grow a pair."
Spokesman David Stevens, who was subsequently interviewed on ITV by Chapman in which he defended the firm's stance, said: "To say we don't want punters to win is just wrong.
"At Royal Ascot we stood the bets and the industry as a whole got a real scare and we realised the scale and how quickly liabilities can build up.
"We have a duty to bet responsibly and manage our position. We have not turned away any bets today and we don't want to, they are good bets, but unlike in football accumulators when the money is spread, accumulators on Frankie build up liabilities very quickly on one specific outcome."
On the final day of Royal Ascot, bet365 and Sky Bet refused certain multiples featuring Dettori's rides, after the rider had ridden a four-timer earlier in the week.
Stevens said: "There would have been some firms that were simply unable to pay out their positions on the Friday and Saturday [of Royal Ascot] if it [Dettori winning all six races] had happened and we can't do business like that.
"Rather than not take business, we did what everyone suggested during Ascot. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't it seems. It is simply prudent bookmaking and gives us the possibility to manage such huge liabilities should they continue to build."
Coral sponsored all the races on a card worth more than £1 million. Dettori's mount in the first race, Rumble Inthejungle, was well beaten, but he ended up with a treble after wins for Mojito (4-1), Enable (4-6) and Falcon Eight (10-11).
Later in the broadcast Chapman praised Coral's backing of the Eclipse. He said: "I should just say, having hammered Coral earlier, fair play for their sponsorship of this race. They have supported this race for a long time and have done a good job."
By Stuart Riley
UPDATED 7:46PM, JUL 6 2019
Coral have hit back over comments made by Matt Chapman during ITV's coverage of the bookmaker-backed Eclipse day at Sandown on Saturday, in which the presenter labelled the firm "absolutely pathetic" for offering starting price (SP) only on legs five and six of any Frankie Dettori accumulators.
The firm, who were angered by the nature of Chapman's attack, cited the threat of spiralling liabilities on Frankie Dettori's mounts for the decision.
Chapman said on ITV: "Absolutely pathetic bookmaking from Coral restricting fivefolds and sixfolds today. Basically what Coral are saying is we do not want you to win. What a pathetic attitude from a bookmaker, they really need to grow a pair."
Spokesman David Stevens, who was subsequently interviewed on ITV by Chapman in which he defended the firm's stance, said: "To say we don't want punters to win is just wrong.
"At Royal Ascot we stood the bets and the industry as a whole got a real scare and we realised the scale and how quickly liabilities can build up.
"We have a duty to bet responsibly and manage our position. We have not turned away any bets today and we don't want to, they are good bets, but unlike in football accumulators when the money is spread, accumulators on Frankie build up liabilities very quickly on one specific outcome."
On the final day of Royal Ascot, bet365 and Sky Bet refused certain multiples featuring Dettori's rides, after the rider had ridden a four-timer earlier in the week.
Stevens said: "There would have been some firms that were simply unable to pay out their positions on the Friday and Saturday [of Royal Ascot] if it [Dettori winning all six races] had happened and we can't do business like that.
"Rather than not take business, we did what everyone suggested during Ascot. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't it seems. It is simply prudent bookmaking and gives us the possibility to manage such huge liabilities should they continue to build."
Coral sponsored all the races on a card worth more than £1 million. Dettori's mount in the first race, Rumble Inthejungle, was well beaten, but he ended up with a treble after wins for Mojito (4-1), Enable (4-6) and Falcon Eight (10-11).
Later in the broadcast Chapman praised Coral's backing of the Eclipse. He said: "I should just say, having hammered Coral earlier, fair play for their sponsorship of this race. They have supported this race for a long time and have done a good job."
..."simply prudent bookmaking"...
If only. They are unwilling to operate as old-fashioned bookies and accept bets instead behaving like accountants in the betting industry. If so, seek a more appropriate profession or business licence to operate; they cannot be allowed to operate and publicly restrict everyone intending to place accas on Dettori's mounts.
Imagine utility companies eg telecom, energy, transport, etc, only willing to facilitate customers in populated urban centres and not remote areas? There will be outcry, and rightly so too; take the rough with the smooth or exit to pasture new, that's what I'll say to them - they're surplus to requirement.
If only. They are unwilling to operate as old-fashioned bookies and accept bets instead behaving like accountants in the betting industry. If so, seek a more appropriate profession or business licence to operate; they cannot be allowed to operate and publicly restrict everyone intending to place accas on Dettori's mounts.
Imagine utility companies eg telecom, energy, transport, etc, only willing to facilitate customers in populated urban centres and not remote areas? There will be outcry, and rightly so too; take the rough with the smooth or exit to pasture new, that's what I'll say to them - they're surplus to requirement.
sad to say in the shops it was the last 3 races at sp if anybody had a five timer multy or more
regards
Ronnie.
regards
Ronnie.
Apparently June 20th was the first occasion since September 1996 that punters had backed Frankie Dettori in TTC accumulators . For over 20 years they'd kept their powder dry waiting patiently to strike the bookmakers in a well planned coup . Unfortunately , after four winners , his 5th mount could only finish 2nd and thus the "Gamble of the Millennium" was foiled and the bookmakers had a narrow escape .
Meanwhile , back on Planet Earth , punters who'd backed Dettori in TTC acca's religiously over the last 20+years at all major Saturday meetings as well as the major midweek festivals at Ascot , Goodwood , Newmarket , York etc (not to mention AP McCoy , Ruby Walsh and Richard Johnson at the Cheltenham festival and Aintree GN meeting) yet again left their hard earned in the bookies coffeurs . But the bookmakers are keeping that fact to themselves , preferring instead to dwell on what might have been and using this Doomsday scenario to impose further restrictions on the betting public in order to avoid the completely hypothetical event of lightening striking twice , literally .
Fortunately market forces should prevail and these restrictions should , theoretically , be eased as competition on the High Street resurfaces but in the meantime the ordinary punter will have his potential payouts restricted as a result of something that didn't actually occur . Well , not since the end of the last century .
Meanwhile , back on Planet Earth , punters who'd backed Dettori in TTC acca's religiously over the last 20+years at all major Saturday meetings as well as the major midweek festivals at Ascot , Goodwood , Newmarket , York etc (not to mention AP McCoy , Ruby Walsh and Richard Johnson at the Cheltenham festival and Aintree GN meeting) yet again left their hard earned in the bookies coffeurs . But the bookmakers are keeping that fact to themselves , preferring instead to dwell on what might have been and using this Doomsday scenario to impose further restrictions on the betting public in order to avoid the completely hypothetical event of lightening striking twice , literally .
Fortunately market forces should prevail and these restrictions should , theoretically , be eased as competition on the High Street resurfaces but in the meantime the ordinary punter will have his potential payouts restricted as a result of something that didn't actually occur . Well , not since the end of the last century .
I was going to mention the same thing Reynard. 23 years of waiting for any jockey, not only Frankie, to go through the card - the bookies love the publicity. A near miss 4 out 6 means the bets keep on rolling.
Chapman should focus on the major bookmakers restricting bets even on the big handicaps each weekend. Ladcrooks and Joes are both bad reducing £25 e/w bets to £6 and £3 respectively whilst B3P, Sly and B3tway won't even take a bet. How can it be possible not to accept a reasonable each way bet, say £50, for these big handicaps each Saturday? (Billies also reduce £25 e/w to pennies but will allow win bet only for £500 exposure).
Chapman should focus on the major bookmakers restricting bets even on the big handicaps each weekend. Ladcrooks and Joes are both bad reducing £25 e/w bets to £6 and £3 respectively whilst B3P, Sly and B3tway won't even take a bet. How can it be possible not to accept a reasonable each way bet, say £50, for these big handicaps each Saturday? (Billies also reduce £25 e/w to pennies but will allow win bet only for £500 exposure).
Horrible Simon from Coral on the phone at 1030 on Luck On Sunday
Simon Clare was busy with his daughter presenting prize to winner of the King George, and let his understudy copped it; the understudy fell hook-line-and-sinker into the hole dug for him by Chapper. No substitute for experience (in life).
Trusty - Things have got considerably worse over the last decade since they significantly reduced their presence on-course . The exchanges are now their only way of controlling their liabilities and it's no substitution for on-course operatives .
Odd comment by Stevens "To say we don't want punters to win is just wrong"
^^
I think he was clearly being disingenuous and factually wrong eg the closure and restriction of accounts tell a different story. Similarly, his support for fobt was too professionally transparent, and against common consensus.
Anyway this year's Eclipse will be known as the "Coral" PR Eclipse.
I think he was clearly being disingenuous and factually wrong eg the closure and restriction of accounts tell a different story. Similarly, his support for fobt was too professionally transparent, and against common consensus.
Anyway this year's Eclipse will be known as the "Coral" PR Eclipse.
Clare was unhappy that Chapman didn't speak to anybody from Coral about it off air first. Luck pulled him up about that.
The last question was about the culture of restrictions making the reaction to this worse. Clare 'answered' it in masterly PR fashion.
The last question was about the culture of restrictions making the reaction to this worse. Clare 'answered' it in masterly PR fashion.
was it all 5/6 fold accas that were restricted yday or just those solely involving Dettori's mounts?
A totally rancid outfit indeed, my last dealings with them was about 4 years ago when I wanted £250 quid on a dog @ 11/4. They said I could have £50 at S.P. My second word to "the trader" was off...
honest their staff used to run to w hill next door if anyone wanted a yankee with them. staff pathetic not trained, tell them ante post theyd say aunty who, useless
Corals and Clare are on there way out, they are run by people who haven't got a clue, and Clare has been on the gravy train for too long.
All these shops that are closing, only opened to accommodate the FOBT's, So its back to where it was before,
but, oh, wait a minute, they got rid of all there knowledgeable staff to employ staff who only had to know how to empty the FOBT's..
So maybe not..
but, oh, wait a minute, they got rid of all there knowledgeable staff to employ staff who only had to know how to empty the FOBT's..
So maybe not..
Indeed, a self-induced PR calamity meant a £200m hit in the mcap of the parent company GVC; no bonus for Clare and their whipper-snapper PR rep snarled by Chapper.
i'll slag the bookies off like the next man by and large but i've not got a problem with this...most multiples fine for them cos they all include different selections but if a lot of people all want to back the same 100,000/1-shot or whatever the odds added up to, that's going to put them in an awkward position
(in addition, i would say that Corals do still employ knowledgeable people in their trading dept..prob more so than most)
*puts tin hat on and retreats*
(in addition, i would say that Corals do still employ knowledgeable people in their trading dept..prob more so than most)
*puts tin hat on and retreats*
duncan idaho • July 8, 2019 4:51 PM BST
(in addition, i would say that Corals do still employ knowledgeable people in their trading dept..prob more so than most)
That is undoubtedly true , but those making the 'business' decisions have not got the faintest idea how the industry operates beyond FOBT's
(in addition, i would say that Corals do still employ knowledgeable people in their trading dept..prob more so than most)
That is undoubtedly true , but those making the 'business' decisions have not got the faintest idea how the industry operates beyond FOBT's
They could find many underwriters in the city if they wanted to insure themselves against a frankie full house. That way they could maintain their service to their clients.
However, it looks like they do not want to pay the premiums
However, it looks like they do not want to pay the premiums
ok a lot of people wanting to back 100,000 /1 shot, yes but like a previous poster said somwhere, the last big hit they had was near 25 years back, so imagine how much theyve taken on big accas in that time period and not paid out, and now coz frankie had 4 on the trot, its panics
It's only happened once, and probably unlikely ever again. It's easily managed (accordingly) on the day; if chooses not to then buy liability insurance (with Llyods underwriters) or stop being a bookie. Simple!
twice , actually . Willie Carson did it at Newcastle (6 races) I believe , although I could be mistaken 
According to uncle 'Google' Carson rode 6 winners at Newcastle - no details - could be at short-priced odds, and certainly not Royal Ascot. I think the bookies (Clare) is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
i am obviously aware that bookies over time will collect on the vast, vast majority of multiples...however, not sure whoever is in charge now would be able to use the last 20 yrs profits as an excuse if they had been taken to the cleaners for 10s of mills Sat, a fortnight after RA had highlighted the potential of such an occurrence
It was on Northumberland Plate day ... when Carson was in his prime, and the cackling/ giggling, television 'poster boy' that Dettori is today.
I think I backed Carson's only LOSER that day, too.
I think I backed Carson's only LOSER that day, too.
That was 100 years ago, lol..they should have saved some of the FOBT money in case it happened again. what they earned in a month on FOBTS,
They could let dettori go through the card once a year and still be in profit, or as was said earlier, insure themselves against it, but they're greedy ba5tards who want it all ways
They could let dettori go through the card once a year and still be in profit, or as was said earlier, insure themselves against it, but they're greedy ba5tards who want it all ways
I think it was about seven years ago that I phoned Jokes with a £100 EW bet on a 9/2 chance. The woman came back and said I could have £75 win and £25 place. I had lost my bank on here and was using a different debit card. I refused, seething at the time as it was the first time I had been restricted. The horse duly hosed up ridden my the great R.Hills.
I cut Joke card in two as a more rancid outfit I have yet to experience. In retrospect I could have accepted the bet and phoned hillys with the rest but they were going behind the stalls at the time.
That said, how many closures and lost jobs will this mob dispose of.....and baddies??
I cut Joke card in two as a more rancid outfit I have yet to experience. In retrospect I could have accepted the bet and phoned hillys with the rest but they were going behind the stalls at the time.
That said, how many closures and lost jobs will this mob dispose of.....and baddies??
It's my expertise chavers. Let's see how we fare on GEORGE'S thread.
Ladcrookes and Ok Koral are restricting the fan club of Dettori doing accas (6 rides) at Newmarket so soon post the Ok Koral "PR" Eclipse at Sandown last weekend.
I firmly believe the Gaming Commission should have recommended the opposition of the consolidation of Ladcrookes and Ok Koral - this is one of the consequences of their tie-up. What's next,...publicly and blantantly closing down of winning accounts of recreational horse punters?
The betting authority need to show some teeth and gumption eg rescind their gaming/betting licence to operate. Maybe, we as recreational punters could boycott these two sh1tty entities; these two entities are scum of the betting industry, in my opinion.
I firmly believe the Gaming Commission should have recommended the opposition of the consolidation of Ladcrookes and Ok Koral - this is one of the consequences of their tie-up. What's next,...publicly and blantantly closing down of winning accounts of recreational horse punters?
The betting authority need to show some teeth and gumption eg rescind their gaming/betting licence to operate. Maybe, we as recreational punters could boycott these two sh1tty entities; these two entities are scum of the betting industry, in my opinion.
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