Trainers who disappeared

Peerless Prince ?

Audrey was actually older than me by several years

Onlooker, maybe it was a little earlier ? I have a job remembering yesterday sometimes.

Saturday

Onlooker he did indeed make a comeback in the mid 1980's.  RP shows he had a couple of winners in 1988 (earliest year they list) who won five races between them.  No "princes" though.

Blackbarn,

100% not 1988 as i left UK in 84. When Onlooker mentioned Peerless, it jumped off the page hence was it Peerless Prince ? What i remember is it wasn't a big meeting.

Peerless Prince sounds plausible. 1977 season won four races for Mr Arthur - He bought it out of Gavin Hunters stable for 1250gns.  One of the handicaps it won was at Kempton in August. "Slaughtered opposition by 12 lengths landing a gamble" says Timeform.

That has to be it and August is the right time, although i didn't think it was as far back as 77.

Many thanks Blackbarn, now i can sleep with the knowledge i'm not losing it

Also thanks to Onlooker

John Wade,still has horses with trainers

I was just going to post that I had found a PEERLESS PRINCE - - a  4-year-old on 1978 - Trained  by Paul Kellaway - Won twice in the Autumn - But never a wide-margin.

So - The horse was presumably sold to Paul Kellaway .... after Arthur had used up it's well-handicapped mark.

think hes some sort of haulage magnate who fancied his hand at training

Onlooker - Correct as usual, but to be fair to PK, Arthur trained its first five runs at 4, all unplaced, and Kelleway did manage to get two more wins out of it later that season.

KEMPTON - Friday August 19th 1977 -  Yielding

3:30  Arion Handicap  1m 3f

1. PEERLESS PRINCE - 3-7-7  Robert Street
   hdwy 5f out, 3rd str, led 2f out, easily)

2. Tudor Wink - 4-7-13 - M L (Taffy) Thomas

Dist:  12 lengths, 3l

SP  4 Pledge (from 5/2) Sunhat (7/2)- 9/2 PEERLESS PRINCE (from 14s), 11/2 Tudor Wink

Trainer: P Arthur - Aston Ugthorpe, Didcot, Oxon

Time:  2m 29.53s (10.53 slow)

if only we'd had the forum in them days with


Andrew in Audrey in Isle of Wight posting

Good job he wasn't in Douglas

Good job he wasn't in Douglas

Andrew must have been  SHANKLIN, in RYDE ... hope Audrey wasn't one of those COWES. though.

Which brings us, inevitably, to Alan Aylett ...

An excellent comparative connection - screaming from beneaththewaves   

Definitely one for us aficionados.

Emmet Michael Butterly ... Letterkenny
Shaun Harley .... Letterkenny
Ray McGlinchy .... Letterkenny

Mark Benton ... (under front man Luke Dace)

Kamil Mahdi

Elliot Cooper

Violet Jordan

Paul Rich



To name a few ...

Onlooker,

Thank you for posting the result, although i'm confused with the from 14's, i felt sure it was much higher as it was one of the main reasons i backed it. I know i had over 10's and thought it was 100/8. Never mind, all in the past now, and a very long past.

Delta

i knew it was a mistake to mention her name.

Must have been an unusually wet August 1977 to be yielding at Kempton.

Does anyone remember Lewes trainer John Ffitch-Heyes and his glamorous wife Penny? ... she would give the lovely Wendy (Mrs John Jenkins) a run for her money.

A colourful character who wrote a book:
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warts-All-John-Ffitch-Heyes/dp/1784557447

Part of "The Lewes Mafia" ... landed some big gambles back in the day.

Giles Bravery - Absolute gentleman .
Conrad Allen - My father had a 2 year old with him , if I remember correct .

Rod Simpson colourful trainer

Barney Curley.

A jockey who disappeared Stephen crane, used to ride for noel made, he was from the Isle of man.

He rode St jovite to win the king George when Christy Roche was banned.

Predictive text Craine and Meade

Roger Fisher with Ekbalco & David Goulding ... the Golden Era of Hurdling ... early 1980's.

https://racingupnorth.co.uk/love-ekbalco/

Although both Roger and Ekblco have departed this world ... David is alive and well and runs a small retraining and livery yard in Cumbria.

Steph Liddiard............

Alison Hutchinson

George Peckham..

Albert Neaves, trained in Faversham kent

Jamie Poulton... nothing for a few years ... Telscombe, East Sussex.

For many years, he had Ron Huggins as an owner sponsor of the stable ... liked Goodwood ... remember the "Double" horses trained by Mark Johnston.

Now has horses with Anthony Honeyball ...

Greg Chung..

Keith Stone

Timmy McCarthy

Pitman mother and son

Three from the North: Vicky Haigh and Mark Campion, who both may still hold licenses and Bob Woodhouse (now works for Tatts) who trained my best ever pointer.

Mrs Reavely and son

Andrew in sweden i can remember Peter having big punts on miami banker,tachyon park and frimley park.

Dunlop Green Flash!

Pat Rohan

Sawley House Stables 06 May 19 12:36 
Three from the North: Vicky Haigh



trainer in France now ...

Ferdy Murphy ?
something happened in England & he went abroad
similar time to Howard Johnson think

Raymond Shiels (nap)

Yes. Controversy seemed to follow her.

Yes. Controversy seemed to follow her.

Ferdy training in France too.

Con Crossley who trained in the Tarporley area
The Robinson chap who trained Slalom who was in everylist of horses to follow at one time
Mike O'Neil - think he was a constructor then set up training in Lydiate(not far from  Aintree). Trained Ayr Gold Cup winner Joveworth with a young Jimmy Fortune aboard.
Captain Wilson - father of Geraldine Rees. Had Julie Bowker riding for him who is the mum of the young Fallon
Michael Albina- had the Fustouk horses in including Silver Hawk in 1982. Was only about twenty at the time.

handtorofe    06 May 19 12:45 

Andrew in sweden i can remember Peter having big punts on miami banker, tachyon park and frimley park.

Handtorofe,

I remember Frimley Prk (sprinter) but not the other two. I left the UK in 1984 and they were born in '84 nd '86 (no internet on those days). I checked out TP and noticed FP was the sire.

I better not mention any more punts i had in that era, it will end up as a 'This is Your Life' with Delta as Eamonn Andrews.

Derek Hdyn Jones horses always seemed to win when they were gambled, cant remember any though.
John White trained Shikari's Son, always ran well at Brighton and won quite a few
Ron Boss
There was one trainer over 20 years ago I followed every time he had a 2yo gambled, most seemed to win and use to run a lot at salisbury, sadly he passed on then his wife took over the stable, nor can i remember his name (it will come to me later)but i think trained near there, Andover maybe
think the stable might have had a handicapper called pit stop

Friends had one with DHJ, Kristi's Girl, or Kirsti's Girl, something like that. Won at a nice price at Chester, and yes, I was on!

Sue Wilton, David Loder

Sue Wilton, David Loder

Sue Wilton, David Loder

Most of the trainers I had any contact with are long since retired, and I suspect most (if not all) have now passed away.

Before I moved to Somerset in '83, had connections to Jean French, who trained near me (Luddesdown/Meopham?), and her daughters (who I actually knew better) used to ride her horses. Remember Royal And Ancient winning at 50/1 in a small field in an evening race at Towcester, in the days before the shops were open for such meetings. Tom, and Pat Palmer, near Detling, will never forget the day they had a 33/1 winner at Lingfield, Hello Luna iirc?

Through them, got to know Lucy King/Gibbons who won most hunter chases at Fakenham back then for 2 trainers, one was Libby (Elizabeth) Lees, cannot remember other. Clonmellon, and Mr Mellors being the highlights of those.

After moving to Somerset, was in part ownership ventures with 2 trainers, David Tucker, who barely trained a winner, and just vanished from trace. The other was shrewder, John Baker.

john traynor

Lucky Luciano - Finmental , Mentalasanythin and Saddam The Log , to name but three . How on earth can anyone fail to remember such brilliantly named thoroughbreds ?

'This is Your Life' with "Delta as Eamonn Andrews"

Many moons ago had a horse with Chris Murry/Nicola Howarth (newmarket), often wonder where they ended up, being Newmarket it was the money (or lack of it that got him in the end) but he knew horses ok.

I think Reynard failed to mention Derek Haydon Jones' best horse. Smart sprinter Annie Edge, who later became the mother of champion miler Selkirk, amongst others

Thanks , Mr Sawley . I wasn't aware that Annie Edge was trained by Derek Hayden Jones .

Delta as Eamonn Andrews.in.Sweden


just getting the red book

Even better ! ...

  - or belter

just getting the red book

Eamonn Andrews one minute .......... Chairman Mao the next

Shirley at the w/e too

Eddie Reavey was the trainer i couldnt remember and the DHJ horses mentioned are there well now, especially Anne Edge

May 5, 2019 -- 3:10PM, echobelly wrote:

Jeremy Gask???

Gone to Australia I believe https://www.racingpost.com/news/gask-plans-return-to-australia-with-sadness-...

kennythebetboy: Isn't Penny Ffitch-Heyes John's step-daughter, rather than his wife? For all Penny's wins on Manhattan Boy, I still think getting Hettinger to somehow clear the first five fences in the Grand National was her greatest feat. Of course, the inevitable happened at the next (Becher's), but still ...

stephaniebot: Is "David Tucker" DC Tucker, who used to train at Frome? I always had it in my head that he was "Donald Tucker", but I could well be wrong. There's also a Devon breeder, DR Tucker, known as Richard Tucker, who held a licence for a long time, but with few successes. One exception was at an evening meeting at Newton Abbot in May 1992, with a gelding called Deccan Prince, in the selling handicap hurdle.

The whisper, according to Eddie Fremantle, was that the man behind the horse was none other than CJ Hill, the legendary butcher of Barnstaple. The nag had run for Tucker on the Flat in 1998, managing a third in a Bath seller. It was then tailed off several times over hurdles, listed as being trained by Ron Hodges. It disappeared for a couple of years, before being "held up behind, some hdwy, nvr pl to challenge" in a maiden hurdle at Newton Abbot, once more listed as being trained by DR Tucker.

Next time out it sluiced up in the above-mentioned Newton Abbot seller, SP 7/1 (opened at least 14/1 - I managed to get a £500/£35). The first horse listed as trained by DR Tucker to have won a race for what seemed like years. God knows how much actual part he had played in the success though.

The horse was tailed off and pulled up in two subsequent starts and never seen again.

Quite a few job horses seemed to move back and forth between CJ Hill and Ron Hodges at that time. The sprinting mare Beatle Song was one example.

Beatle Song's first trainer was actually Ian Balding, trainer of Selkirk, mentioned above, who was out of Derek Haydn Jones's mare Annie Edge. I remember saying to Eddie once: "What happened to Haydn Jones? You get a mare like Annie Edge, who takes you to the top, yet you spend the rest of your career fiddling horse's handicap marks to get them into 0-60s."

"Not much different from what happened to Ian Balding then," came the reply.

* The nag had run for Tucker on the Flat in 1988

Yes, DR Tucker (Richard) was the one I was in an ownership syndicate with

Stephanie,

Did John Baker appear on the racecard as R J Baker? I owned a horse that got done a neck in an amateur riders race at Salisbury in June 2002, by one of his called Hattington, ridden by the well named Mr Sharkey! Hattington ran in the colours of Mick Channon and when he won again in July, I believe he was the last winner sent out by Mr Baker.

One of my own to add to the list, David Wilson, who trained in Epsom until the mid 90's, after being assistant to John Sutcliffe. One of his best horses was Gamblers Dream, who won the Crocker Bulteel Hcp on King George day at Ascot. I know he went on to work with Gary Moore and he's still around, as I talked to him at the Newmarket sales last October.

Btw, in the Directory of the Turf 1988, there are entries in the trainers section for a David Richard Tucker based in Cullompton, Devon - and a Donald Charles Tucker based in Frome. They were born 17 years apart, DC in 1932, DR in 1949, so seems unlikely they were closely related.

Going back to Annie Edge, good as she was, I think it was a surprise when she made 330k gns at the end of her 3 year old career in 1983. Reputedly to race in the US, not sure if she ever did?.  I assume the buyer was George Strawbridge.  Given she got Selkirk and a couple of other decent animals, hard to argue that he paid too much.

She ran eleven times in the US according to Equibase, winning four of them, including a Grade 2 at Belmont and a Grade 3 at Pimlico. In all she earned just over $200,000 in prize money. Her final run was at Saratoga in August 1985, the only time she finished out of the money over there.

She ran in the name of Augustin Stable, and was trained by Johnathon Sheppard.

The Anorak, that would be around the time he retired, so quite likely that's what he was down as on racecard, its all about 25-30 years ago I was involved, so memory less than perfect, other than that everyone called him John.
Yes, David Richard Tucker was the one. Vaguely remember he was in Churchstanton, but it qualified as a Cullompton address.

The address for DR Tucker in the Directory is Haydon Farm, Blackborough, Cullompton.

I think Mick Channon's first job in racing was as pupil assistant with "John" Baker ... seem to remember them winning The Chester Cup, in 1981 with Star Player, landed a mammoth gamble. Mick said John was the best teacher he could have had.

Les Montague-Hall was head lad at John Sutcliffe's in the 70's & 80's (The Glory Years). Remember Ravi Tikoo horse Tender Heart winning the Royal Hunt Cup in 1980, landing one of the largest ante-post gambles seen at the Royal meeting. Les later set up on his own in Epsom, also rented Chalk Pit stables, was a renowned master horseman. He had a very bad fall in his yard and laterly had few runners, more of a livery yard, handed in his licence in 2012. Mogok Ruby won a few for him.

Brooke Sanders trained at The Chalk Pit stables for a while, Double Dutch & Calapaez were her best horses, she handed in her licence in 2006 after 20 years.

All the Epson yards given a write up:

http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/RacehorseTrainersAtEpsomA-Z.pdf

typo ...*Epsom ...

Arthur Pitt was a smartly turned out trainer from the Epsom "glory years" era ... known to everyone as "Ces" ... he was the first trainer for prolific owner Alan D. Spence back in the late 60's / 70's... best horse was dual purpose "Freight Forwarder" who won a hatful of races. Alan had his burgeoning freight business at Chessington in those days, before expanding into travel ...
I had the same accountant as Alan (Ewart Cockcroft at Henry T Smith., South Lambeth Road, Stockwell, later moved to Surbiton) and took particular interest in his runners ... nice to see him becoming so successful in his business and ownership.

Haven't read the whole thread but Ken Payne "king of the Sellers" was a one-off.

Kim Brassey didn't train for very long.

Jackie Retter...who Mick Fitzgerald rode many winners for, early in his career .

The address for DR Tucker in the Directory is Haydon Farm, Blackborough, Cullompton.

It was Haydon Farm, so that's definitely the one

If it's the same man, it looks like DRT is still going as a breeder, with A Momentofmadness being perhaps his best, and a half-sister yearling selling for £100k last year.

I think Jackie Retter may still have a licence.

At the end of the 80s/start of the 90s she was improving horses out of all recognition. Mzima Spring was my favourite - she got the mare from Gerald Cottrell, and turned her into a brilliant, bold-jumping front-running chaser, running up win after win under Brendan Powell on good ground. In the mare's final start she actually led Desert Orchid until the home straight at Wincanton, before fading into third.

One of my favourites later on was Faux Pavillon - a chestnut with a big white face. He won first time out at D & E under Mick Fitzgerald - £1,500 to £120, thank you Ivor Perry - then followed up as a short-priced favourite.

Then there was The Blue Boy, who had been claimed after winning for John Dunlop, and which she sent out to win seven consecutive 3yo hurdles under Peter Scudamore.

About the only horse she had which had ability but failed to win a race was a mare called Allyfair, which kept getting placed under Mick Fitzgerald. Allyfair was a grey, like her sire, Scallywag. And, like most Scallywags, lived up to the sire's name. I suggested to her that the mare needed blinkers, only to be told very forthrightly that none of her horses needed blinkers, thank you.

That was the last time we ever spoke.

One of Charlie Appleby's early jobs in racing was in Mrs Retter's yard.

Before joining Mrs Retter, Fitzgerald rode quite a few winners for Ray Callow, principally Duncan Idaho. Callow definitely knew what he was doing, but, like so many trainers, got beaten by the economics of the game in the end. I think he went to work for Ron Hodges.

And before that, Fitzgerald rode winners for Somerset trainer Gerald Ham (who was also a pig farmer, inevitably). Ham was yet another trainer who defintely knew the time of day. But the big gamblers latched onto his yard, and in the end, despite the number of winners he sent out, it looked like every loser had run badly, simply because they got sent off at such stupidly short prices.

And before that, guess who trained Fitzgerald's first couple of winners in this country (Lover's Secret and Corston Springs)? None other than that man of mystery DR (Richard) Tucker!

(Incidentally, Churchstanton is up in the Blackdowns, near Cullompton, but just on the Somerset side of the border, with Cullompton being in Devon.)

Screaming  going back to an earlier point regarding John Hill and Ron Hodges, I don't think there was any hoodwinking going on, Ron ended up with most of Johns horses for one season due to John getting a 12 month suspension of his license. The D R Tucker connection may have come about due to the fact before he trained his own horses John had the flat horses trained by Toby Balding and his jumpers trained by Jack Cann father of Grant Cann
at Cullompton at may well be the yard Tucker took over.

C.J Hill now in his 80s and a Chicken Farmer.

Shalimah - Thank you so much for that. After twenty-seven years it all gets cleared up.

Also, I just looked up Deccan Prince on the Racing Post site, and it turns out that the registered owner during the 18 months the horse was off the track was Tony Newcombe. Of course, in those pre-internet days there was no way of knowing that. If it had been public knowledge, then the whole world would have realized CJ Hill was involved, and it never would have been available at 14s.

Incidentally, Deccan Psince's jockey that night was Brian Clifford, who of course went on to ride for Tony Newcombe when the latter took out a licence in his own name. Well, at least he rode for him until winning on Casual Water at a Stratford evening meeting at an SP of 16/1. After that he never rode for Newcombe again.

To be fair, its well over 30 years since I had a horse (Lift High) with Mr Tucker, so its hardly surprising that with time, and the recent seizures I suffered (which has done my brain no favours), that my memory of the location of the stable is somewhat faded. The jockey I remember riding for the stable is Simon McNeill.
In truth, I remember even less about the Baker horses I was involved in now. One was called Perforate, the other I cannot remember the name, and I suspect that short of looking at a list of horses in the stable in the mid to late 80's, I'm not going to, and no guarantees even then.

It was great fun, but the limits of getting around by public transport, combined with work, and starting to cohabit with someone brought the fun days to an end

Brian 'Barney' Clifford, seen here on his greatest day, winning the Midlands National on Glenbrook D'Or for Jim Wilson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS-jAz0WCeg

Plenty of nostalgia to be had from the list of names at the start of that film.

(To stephaniebot)

What am I now that I was then?   
May memory restore again and again   
The smallest color of the smallest day:   
Time is the school in which we learn,   
Time is the fire in which we burn.

Dandy nichols

Stephanie,

Perforate ran in the colours of a Mrs Merrilyn Rowe and the other two horses she had with John Baker at that time were called Sandro and Ziegfeld.

Perforate won two novice hurdles in August 1993 at Exeter and Worcester, ridden in both by Luke Harvey.

I think Perforate was with R J Baker, rather than his father, J H (John) Baker, who previously held the licence. Though I may well have misremembered/misunderstood all this.

One horse of John Baker's I won't forget is a hurdler called Midnight Strike. Willie McFarland used to ride it as a conditional jockey, holding it up miles off the pace at D&E in the early autumn, before unleashing a devastating turn of foot. I remember it shooting about half a furlong clear one day at D&E, in a good race, which prompted me to waste £50 backing it at 50/1 for the Champion Hurdle.

It ran once (well beaten) in the next three years.

Yes, quite possible. Syndicate horses back then tended to run in the colours of 1 owner. Lift High was listed as owned by Malcolm Endicott, but there were 4 us as equal owners. I did meet 2 of the other 3 owners (he was one of them), but never met the final one in my time as owner.

Perforate was the last horse I had any share in, the previous horse was prior to him. Never saw either run in person, that I remember. I remember McFarland riding for Baker, though. Allow that I used to go racing a bit more back then on weekdays when not working, thanks to a veteran bookie named Tony (Conky) Woods, so I did tend to see trainer from time to time that way, mainly Taunton, and Wincanton.
Equally, asking me now as to who held the licence at the time, no idea now.

screaming from beneaththewaves 08 May 19 10:04   

(To stephaniebot)

What am I now that I was then?   
May memory restore again and again   
The smallest color of the smallest day:   
Time is the school in which we learn,   
Time is the fire in which we burn.

Yes, unfortunately time isn't kind to us, grand mal seizures even less so, and I've been through both. Just trying to keep the brain as active as possible now, and threads like this definitely help, even if I cant remember all my personal details

Excellent thread.... some great stories of the West Country circuit.

yes a very interesting thread going back so so far ,,, i wish you well stephaniebot and glad yr enjoying the stuff on the forum ;;;

A relatively recent one Alan McAbe, thinks wife did a piece in the most for a while.
Oldies- D Plant -Kingfisher Blue.
              Nigel Angus-Roman Warrior
              Geoff Toft--Gunner B
               Jack Hardy.
               V Mitchell -trained at Carburton i think,  where Jeremy Glover ended up.
               John Bingham--Sage Merlin.
list is probably endless.

A relatively recent one Alan McAbe, thinks wife did a piece in the most for a while.


runs pre training yard outside HQ currently