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07 Apr 19 17:34
Date Joined: 05 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 30,051 | Blogger: themightymac's blog
With the Guineas approaching fast, it may be worth remembering that many good prospects at two, failed to live up to the hype, something worth noting when considering a punt on any before they run this year.

The one that always springs to mind for me, is Crowned Prince which was trained by Bernard van Cutsem. They thought he was going to be a Champion.
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Report chavman April 7, 2019 6:36 PM BST
tenby,duck row
Report sj April 7, 2019 6:40 PM BST
Daggers Drawn, although he did run poorly in Dewhurst which at the time was put down to one race to many that season. Remember Fallon saying one of the best he has sat on during that season
Report lead on April 7, 2019 6:40 PM BST
Tromos looked a champion at 2
Report differentdrum April 7, 2019 6:40 PM BST
Funny you should mention him. One of my earliest vague memories, the 1972 Craven Stakes.

Another of the famous ones would be Tromos in the 1979 race.
Report chavman April 7, 2019 6:40 PM BST
plenty of AOBs
Report howarth31 April 7, 2019 6:43 PM BST
Air Force Blue
Report chavman April 7, 2019 6:46 PM BST
hasnt anything that won the racing post trophy been installed as derby favourite
Report differentdrum April 7, 2019 6:48 PM BST
Apalachee another one.
Report sparrow April 7, 2019 6:53 PM BST
Try My Best.
Report Alices April 7, 2019 6:59 PM BST
Circus Ring was Champion 2yo in 1981 and  Favourite for the 1,000 guineas,  Never ran in it and finished tailed off in its only race at 3 the Coronation  Stakes at Royal Ascot.
I was working for Joes  at the time and a punter brought 4 Grand into the shop in October 1981 to back the horse, it was about 7/2.
The tills then weren't  very modern and £99.99 pence was the most that could be rung up at any one time, so I had to ring it up 41 times, you could hardly see the selection due to the till marks all over the slip.
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 7:01 PM BST
Tromos carried the famous Cambanis colours, Black, White Spots and of course was the produce of the great racing mare Stilvi. Bruce Hobbs thought it was the best he had trained.

Apalachee, trained by Vincent O`Brien is another good shout. Can`t remember who owned him but I seem to have a vague recollection of Green and White colours Confused
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 7:05 PM BST
Report differentdrum April 7, 2019 7:06 PM BST
Mulcahy who had the likes of Thatch and Cloonlara.
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 7:08 PM BST
Thanks differentdrum. Was it Green and White or Green and Red colours? The latter I am thinking now.
Report sparrow April 7, 2019 7:16 PM BST
At age two Try My Best won the G III Larkspur Stakes at Leopardstown Racecourse in Ireland and the Group One Dewhurst Stakes at Newmarket Racecourse in England. The unbeaten 1977 Champion Two-Year-Old of England and Ireland won the Vauxhall Trial Stakes at Phoenix Park Racecourse at age three in 1978 following which owner Robert Sangster syndicated the colt for US$6 million. Try My Best then shocked his owners and the betting public when he finished last in the Classic 2,000 Guineas Stakes to winner, Roland Gardens. Injured, Try My Best never returned to racing.
Report Johnny_Mustang April 7, 2019 7:17 PM BST
This is the betting without Killer Instinct, right?

Oh, and Storm Bird.
Report ronnie rails April 7, 2019 7:26 PM BST
killer instinct
daggers dawn
think I backed all of them at short odds glad to say I have learnt my lesson.
Report chavman April 7, 2019 7:31 PM BST
ive never heard of any of em ConfusedShockedDevilLaugh
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 7:33 PM BST
Storm Bird looked an exceptional 2-y-o. Did he not get attacked by a disgruntled ex stable lad in the Spring of his 3-y-o career?

Gorytus is a great shout. Was he not the victim of the doping gangs?
Report chavman April 7, 2019 7:33 PM BST
5 less losers off the spreadsheet though Laugh
Report Johnny_Mustang April 7, 2019 7:40 PM BST
Yep, TMM. Storm had his tail hacked.
Report elise April 7, 2019 7:43 PM BST
storm bird as a sire was decent enough though
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 7:54 PM BST
He sure was. He must have been the subject of one of the first big breeding syndicates set up by the late, great, Mr Robert Sangster.
Report mymumsfinethankyou April 7, 2019 7:55 PM BST
black buty
Report chavman April 7, 2019 8:00 PM BST

champion the wunder horse never won a classic
Report chavman April 7, 2019 8:02 PM BST
of black bess an her rider robbed loads of geezers,and at least he wore a mask
Report chavman April 7, 2019 8:03 PM BST
*black bess never won a classic
Report differentdrum April 7, 2019 8:29 PM BST
Mulcahy - Green, white sash and orange cap.
Report GAZO April 7, 2019 8:30 PM BST
a few of these get a mention in alec bird's book has being got at by the dopers
Report themightymac April 7, 2019 8:34 PM BST
Cheers differentdrum. I was close.
Report ribero1 April 7, 2019 8:36 PM BST
"This is the betting without Killer Instinct right?" lol,all Killer Instinct was was an overhyped 2 y o,nothing it did at 2 made it look like a classic prospect,won a Nottingham maiden on his 3rd start.
Report maleuk01. April 7, 2019 9:10 PM BST

nowhere near the same as a 3 year old, after being the champion 2 year old in the world.
Report the old nanny ;-) April 7, 2019 9:57 PM BST
Apalachee looked very Decent then finnished   3rd in the 2000 Guineas, was odds on ..  Never ran again Sad
Report Eddie Batt April 7, 2019 10:08 PM BST
Report Vubiant April 7, 2019 11:40 PM BST
Ribofilio -from the Neolithic! Grin
Report themightymac April 8, 2019 12:09 AM BST
I found the 1971 Dewhurst and Crowned Prince looked a world beater in the making. The horse he trounced in that race Rheingold turned out to be not too bad.

Here is Apalachee winning the Observer Gold Cup, now known as the Racing Post Trophy.

Storm Bird winning the 1980 Dewhurst from To-Agori-Mou who turned out quite useful.

Gorytus flopping the 1982 Dewhurst
Report themightymac April 8, 2019 12:19 AM BST
Crocket, a King Of The Tudors colt who had won all five of his races as a juvenile, dominating the division was winter favourite for the 1963 2000 Guineas. He reappeared in the Craven Stakes and was all out to win by a head, but his connections were reassuringly satisfied by the performance and an impressive final gallop ensured he started favourite at 5-2 in a field of 21 on the big day. He finished 21st.

There was an almost exact parallel in 1978. Try My Best had been unbeaten at two, his comfortable win in the Dewhurst guaranteeing he was named champion of his crop. Such was his reputation that Timeform declared him “a ready-made winner of the 2,000 Guineas”, with the caveat “provided the race is run on a sound surface.” He came back with an emphatic two-length triumph in the Vauxhall Trial Stakes at Phoenix Park and was at even money when the stalls opened for the Classic. But there had been rain on the day and the soft ground did not suit the son of Northern Dancer. After two furlongs he was stone last, he never promised to improve his position and at the finish he was tailed off, 19th of the 19 runners.

Could there ever have been a worse display by a Guineas favourite than those by Crocket and Try My Best? Well, yes, actually, and I remember the occasion well. It was 1969 and most people found it hard to look beyond Ribofilio. He had been the champion juvenile, impressive in the Champagne Stakes and dominant in the Dewhurst. And he had come back with a victory in the Ascot 2,000 Guineas Trial, albeit in slow time against negligible rivals. There were no more than a dozen in opposition on the big day and at 15-8 Ribofilio was confidently expected to blow them away.

Oh dear! The supposed leader of his generation was in trouble and under pressure after a furlong, tailed off after three, and at halfway Lester Piggott abandoned pursuit, pulling him up. Effectively, the race was run without the favourite and Right Tack cruised to a victory that was undervalued until he went on to confirm his class as the first to add the Curragh Guineas to success on the Rowley Mile. What happened to Ribofilio?

We never found out and although the dope test was negative, suspicion remained there were some who knew that the favourite was not going to win. Hours afterwards, in a Newmarket hostelry, I partook of a glass or three with a prominent bookmaker who admitted to having made a fortune by laying Ribofilio. Why would he have been so keen to lay the presumed certainty? “I just didn’t fancy him” was the not all too convincing retort. Poor Ribofilio went on to compile the unenviable and unprecedented record of being the beaten favourite in four Classics – at 7-2 in the Derby, 2-1 in the Irish Derby and 11-10 in the St Leger.

Of course, there have also been those who ruled as firm favourites for the Guineas over the winter but who did not even make it to the post. Could there have been any reason to doubt the credentials of Tromos in 1979?
Tremendously impressive in the Dewhurst Stakes, he ranked 5lb clear of the next-best juvenile of his year and Timeform declared: “We think Tromos will take the world of beating as a three-year-old and can’t see anything to trouble him in the Guineas except the ground, should it be soft.” The going was good but Tromos was not there; he had surrendered tamely to Lyphard’s Wish in the Craven Stakes, then contracted a virus which meant he never raced again.

Four years later there was Danzatore, a Northern Dancer colt unbeaten at two and who had returned victorious at Phoenix Park. In mid-April he ruled as 7-4 favourite in ante-post lists, but a week later, after a disappointing gallop, was taken out of the Classic and the previously unconsidered Lomond was sent to deputise successfully for the Ballydoyle stable.

The 2,000 Guineas always represented a prime target for Vincent O’Brien and if Try My Best has to be cited as his most calamitous loser, there were other disappointing favourites, like Thatch, only fourth at 5-2 in 1973, The Minstrel, third at 6-5 in 1977, and more remarkably, Apalachee, sent off at 4-9 in 1974. Timeform had given Apalachee the outlandish rating of 137 as a two-year-old after a couple of wide-margin wins in Ireland and an emphatic victory over Grand Criterium hero Mississippian in the Observer Gold Cup. The accompanying comment could hardly have been more enthusiastic: “Quite frankly we can see nothing to stop him winning both the 2,000 Guineas and the Derby. We have not seen a horse as promising as this for years.” The shortest-priced Guineas favourite in four decades was soundly beaten and never seen on a racecourse again.
Report stewarts rise April 8, 2019 10:11 AM BST
Think Lunchtime was pretty short winter fav for the 2000 gns and Derby in 73, having won all 3 of his races as a 2 yo inc the Dewhurst trained by Peter Walwyn who said was the best 2 yo he ever trained.
Beaten by h'capper Boldboy on his reappearance coming 2nd, ran in the 2000gs unplaced behind Mon Fils, then stepped up to 1 1/2 miles in the Predominate at Goodwood ran 4th behind Buoy and never ran again. Probably did train on just not good enough.
Report G Hall April 8, 2019 11:04 AM BST
Danzatore for me as well.

Arazi was whisked away after the breeders Cup race for an emergency??? Operation and was never the same after. The cynic in me always thought it was an excuse to prevent him for being dope tested post race. The performance of Arazi that night defied belief it was incredible.
Report themightymac April 8, 2019 8:39 PM BST
Onlooker, Ged, Geoff, blackbarn, etc

Regards Crowned Prince - who owned it? I don`t recognise the colours in the video above.
Report stewarts rise April 9, 2019 10:14 AM BST
Was owned by a Frank M McMahon one of his breeders an American, interestingly his Dam produced some terrific racehorses including our Derby winner Secreto and also his full brother Majestic Prince winner of the Kentucky Derby and Preakness in 69.
Report ged April 9, 2019 10:35 AM BST
The colours are black and yellow hoops on the body, yellow cuffs, yellow cap with black spots.

His american colours were slightly different, with a black cap with a black bobble. You can see those in this image, for Majestic Prince...

Majestic Prince was the 3-year-older brother of Crowned Prince (and half the reason the latter cost so much), and finished 1-2 with Arts And Letters in all 3 legs of the US triple crown, winning 2 of them. He was 9 from 9 going into the Belmont (the first horse ever to go into that race undefeated), but there was a big drama about it as his jockey Johnny Longden reported after the Preakness that he had done a tendon, and McMahon said he would be missing the Belmont. The press put pressure on McMahon to change his mind about running him - and he did - but he came a well beaten 2nd. He never ran again.
Report Brian April 9, 2019 10:43 AM BST
Crocket 1962/3 . Not that I bear a grudge!
Report ged April 9, 2019 10:43 AM BST
**trainer Johnny Longden!

Was a famous jockey, but long past that in 1969.
Report geoff m April 9, 2019 11:07 AM BST
Crowned Prince before my time TMM.
Im not quite as old as i make outLaugh

Noel Murless trained:J.O.Tobin  fab 2 year old  from memory:Newmarket Maiden/Richmond stakes/Champagne Stakes cant recall whether it was a case of he didnt train on or was whisked off to America before his 3 year old career

Henry Cecils: Vacarme cant recall if he ever ran @ 3
Report workrider April 9, 2019 11:15 AM BST
Themightymac, thanks for putting those videos up ,really enjoyed watching them.
Report ged April 9, 2019 1:19 PM BST
Wildenstein took Vacarme away from Cecil after his 2yo season and sent him to be trained in France by Patrice Biancone. He did run in Britain once as a 4yo when he chased home Pebbles at Sandown the day before the Whitbread.

Strangely enough, there was another Vacarme in the late 50s who made the reverse journey. He was trained in France originally, but was sent to Norman Bertie as a 5yo, and caused a shock in the Jockey Club Cup on 2000 Guineas day in 1959 when he short-headed 2/5 fav Alcide under a great ride from Breasley, though Alcide was making his seasonal debut and probably wasn't wound up. (Alcide would probably have won the Derby as a 3yo, but was found to be injured shortly before the race, having won the Lingfield Derby Trial by 12 lengths going away - he went on to win the Voltigeur by 12 lengths and the St Leger by 8. As a 4yo, he won the KG&QEII, having been beaten a short head in the Ascot Gold Cup after being held up in his preparation.)
Report ged April 9, 2019 1:33 PM BST
Murless retired at the end of J O Tobin's 2yo season, so his American owner had him trained in the US subsequently. He won Grade 1s at 3 and 4, and was a fast-timer on the dirt, best known over there for blazing from the front and downing triple crown-winner Seattle Slew in the Swaps.
Report geoff m April 9, 2019 1:43 PM BST
Cheers Ged thanx for that.
Report geoff m April 9, 2019 1:43 PM BST
Cheers Ged thanx for that.
Report duffy April 9, 2019 2:13 PM BST
Rainbow View
Report sparrow April 9, 2019 2:22 PM BST
I remember Gosden blaming the firm ground on Rainbow View's odds on defeat in the 2000 gns.
Report duffy April 9, 2019 2:23 PM BST
1000 evenWink
Report sparrow April 9, 2019 2:38 PM BST
Yes of course duffy 1000 gns Sad
Report themightymac April 9, 2019 2:41 PM BST
No problem workrider, hope that you are well! I think that Crowned Prince was the last winner that I bet Laugh

Thanks guys for the info on Crowned Prince`s owner and colours and the piece on JO Tobin.
Report penzance April 9, 2019 4:45 PM BST
Distant Music- B.Hills- Abdullah
Report themightymac April 9, 2019 7:54 PM BST
I never tire of watching Arazi`s performance at the Breeders Cup. One of the greatest performances ever. Any of the younger posters who haven`t seen it, it`s well worth a watch.
Report G Hall April 9, 2019 10:58 PM BST
Any mature forumites might know this I was young when danzatore came on the scene and thought he was brilliant as a 2 year old. How good was he or could he have been.
Report themightymac April 9, 2019 11:20 PM BST
Danzatore, an Irish champion who sired champion Reraise, was euthanized last week. The 23-year-old stallion stood at Dr. Leonard Blach's Buena Suerte Equine Clinic near Roswell, New Mexico
Bred in Canada by E.P. Taylor, Danzatore offered an intriguing 3 x 3 inbreeding to Native Dancer, being by Northern Dancer and out of a Raise a Native mare (Shake a Leg). He commanded $1 million at the 1981 Keeneland July yearling sale and raced in Ireland for a partnership that included Robert Sangster and Danny Schwartz.

Trained by Vincent O'Brien, Danzatore was named Ireland's champion 2-year-old after winning the 1982 Panasonic Beresford Two-Year-Old Stakes (Ire-II) and the Ashford Castle Stakes (Ire-III). He started his 3-year-old season with an Irish win in The Minstrel Stakes in a prep for the Two Thousand Guineas (Eng-I), but was withdrawn from consideration about a week before the classic because of O'Brien's dissatisfaction over his workouts. He raced once more and lost. He later was retired with a record of four wins from five starts and $67,656 in earnings.

Danzatore began his stallion career the following year at Patrick Hogan's Cambridge Stud in New Zealand. He later stood in the U.S. at Spendthrift Farm and Prestonwood Farms in Kentucky, then Summers Mill Farm in Texas before heading to Buena Suerte Equine. It was at Prestonwood where Reraise was conceived.
Reraise was voted 1998 champion sprinter after winning the Breeders' Cup Sprint (gr. I). Reraise won eight of nine starts and earned $922,830.

Danzatore sired a total of 25 stakes winners and a like number of stakes-placed runners.
Report themightymac April 9, 2019 11:26 PM BST
I remember him well G H, mainly because he carried the famous colours of Danny Schwartz my favourite owner of the time. Black and Dark Reddish hoops. He was an outstanding 2-y-o and looked destined for Classic success. I`m almost sure that Julian Wilson, one of the most respected judges of the era, had a clutch of Ante Post vouchers for him and thought that he was one of the best 2-y-o`s he had seen. I really don`t know what happened to him but he was a major disappointment at three. Great shout.
Report G Hall April 10, 2019 11:31 AM BST
Thanks for the lowdown tmm.
Report FELTFAIR April 10, 2019 12:24 PM BST
A major disappointment for me in recent times was Rainbow View, an unbeaten 2 year old and hot favourite for the 1000 Guineas but never looked threatening. She did finally win a weakly contested G1 Matron Stakes but along with the withdrawal of St Nicholas Abbey(can`t say he didn`t train on) from the 2010 Epsom Derby cost me dear.
Report RothmanMike April 10, 2019 1:35 PM BST
Crowned Prince rings long in the memory.
Killer Instinct I remember more clearly.
Owned by the short-lived Thoroughbred Organisation (Green and White stripes) and trained by HRAC.
Much hype before beaten in first race at Ascot - I went there to bet it.
Followed it up to Newcastle next, when a Mark Johnston one beat it.
Gave up after that, although it did eventually get off the mark.
Report themightymac April 10, 2019 5:07 PM BST
Here is a good article from the Irish Times Mike which you may find interesting.

Sat, May 29, 1999, 01:00

Killer Instinct can start to live up to his tall reputation in the Listed John Charcol Mortgage Adviser Stakes (registered as the Heron Stakes) at Kempton today. His well-documented flops at long odds-on before an easy Nottingham win in a poor contest last time out do little to suggest that he is a top-flight performer in the making.

But reputations simply cannot be created without the evidence of ability.

If men like trainer Henry Cecil and ex-jockey Willie Carson (now racing manager for the owners, The Thoroughbred Corporation) talk a horse up as they have done, then he simply must be a good animal.

Furthermore, his disappointing efforts in the past ought to ensure that enough punters are deterred from investing to guarantee a decent price.

After the colt had been turned over on his debut at Ascot last year, owner Ahmed Salman said: "I promise he will win the 2,000 Guineas - you can take my word on that."

And even the slightly less-ebullient Cecil added: "When he went to quicken up he was mentally looking around. But I'm sure it's there."

Take the advice of racing professionals.
Report workrider April 10, 2019 5:18 PM BST
The excuse given for Crowned Prince's failure to train on was if I remember correctly a Soft Palate .
Report flapper April 10, 2019 6:36 PM BST
Undercut (3yo 1987) was the next white hope from the Abdullah/Harwood axis.
Report unitedbiscuits April 10, 2019 7:34 PM BST
Diesis, 2k Gns.
Beat Gorytus in the Middle Park. Fav for Guineas. Stone-bruise or something on the day. Three observations:
1) There was no announcement on-course concerning the doubt about his participation. But I remember Henry Cecil'c swarthy skin was literally crawling as he talked to a wheel-chair bound Lord Howard De Walden. Will always remember De Walden's affably reception to the situation, laughing at adversity as only someone who owns 200 acres of W1 can afford to.
2) Cyril Stein backing the horse all down the rails before the race. People said he would retrieve his money later in the season but it did not happen.
Report unitedbiscuits April 10, 2019 7:36 PM BST
I can't remember 3)
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