why is liquidity so low?

BF don't exactly encourage growth by implementing a system that milks the ones that buy an advantage
Colours nailed to the mast there

One of two things would need to happen to improve the situation -
Either Betfair stops pushing all new customers on to the sportsbook or new (foreign markets) need to be attracted to the exchange.
What will actually happen is the steady decay will continue and more and more punters will give it up.

LV isnt in BFs control, any gain in speed that occurs has nowt to do with them, yet a level playing field is the only thing that encourages growth...... betfair can control the take out they have and other than stuttering promos they cant address their own problems

I predict the same people moaning about it this year will be on here next year, still moaning.
We've had the same type thread every year for the last decade if not more

That's not to say liquidity isn't low or that a boost wouldn't be much welcomed, just saying there's still plenty to be had

There used to be a lot more people moaning about it. Some of them aren't here any more most likely.

The system they thought up doesnt address cheating, it simply takes more from them
The same system discourages growth via high tax mentality within a finite market

They cant possibly not know this, so they cleary dont care.

LV is very fast for the past few months and never had a problem with it...they are sending us what they are getting and not slowing it down...betfair need to advertise thats all

jamesdean is correct - there are of course issues, such as the speed of the Irish pictures but some things have improved. LV has become a lot more reliable and the ATR tracks have speeded up. As JD says, this narrative of "just the sharks eating each other are left, won't be long now" has been around since about 2006 and (largely) fact free. The average matched IR at Cheltenham this year was around £1/2M - the highest I have ever known.

There used to be a lot more people that used the forums. They're probably still here and moaning but
just not posting their moans. There's less mug money about as people get better.

Can only go on personal experience but it doesn't seem any worse than it did this time last year, that might be
different for the big stakes track players that have seen their advantage take a nose dive late on

Commission from exchange betting on Horse Racing is a smaller slice of Betfair's income than it used to be. Exchange markets on the main markets in Football and Cricket trade plenty. Back in the day Betfair didn't have poker, exchange games and most signficantly the sportsbook.

The tracks are cheating the people

people who use the word moaners are mistaken, its called trying to make things better, of course most people are apathetical

unilateral slowing of only certain pictures on course is a contrived action

I was largely refering to pre-race liqudity declining but many years of delayed pictures on ATR and now Sky Sports Racing is a disgrace and obviously a retarder to I/R liqudity.

In running a waste of time. Used to be a slight difference between back & lay but now gap is enormous

Don't think it's just the horse racing.

Other day on the England match, the first amounts I managed to get matched were 26p, 58p and £2.

I've noticed an apparent drop in liquidity for a few weeks now.

Doesn't surprise me, Darlo. Every new customers gets sent straight to the sportsbook. Most only find their way here if they get restricted on the sportsbook and even then they may just go elsewhere rather than use the exchange. Obviously punters retire/go skint/die off etc. They don't get replaced.

i also think sky's new roadside shots are not helpful as many horses are hidden (or not even in picture) this isnt good either

Mar 29, 2019 -- 6:02PM, Rider wrote:

i also think sky's new roadside shots are not helpful as many horses are hidden (or not even in picture) this isnt good either

correct

"Used to be a slight difference between back & lay but now gap is enormous" That isn't anything to moan about..if you're consistently on the right end of it. Ironically, most of the moaners are filthy arbers, fast pic thieves, owners of beasts that ain't trying a leg until their money is down etc..

It's hardly surprising that everything doesn't remain as is..

liquidity seemed fine there on the 2nd

1.01    £17        £28,409       
1.02    £35        £2,905       
1.03            £5,464       
1.04    £87        £1,649       
1.05    £22        £3,239       
1.06    £0        £6,176       
1.07            £1,822       
1.08            £825       
1.09    £78        £2,187       
1.10    £225        £3,516       
1.11    £93        £1,804       
1.12    £75        £3,508       
1.13            £1,708       
1.14            £326       
1.15            £1,436       
1.16            £1,544       
1.17            £508       
1.18            £382       
1.19            £388       
1.2            £3,082

28k just done at 1.01 there.

The end is nigh.

Good evening Sniper.

Mar 29, 2019 -- 6:10PM, jamesdean wrote:

liquidity seemed fine there on the 2nd1.01    £17        £28,409        1.02    £35        £2,905        1.03            £5,464        1.04    £87        £1,649        1.05    £22        £3,239        1.06    £0        £6,176        1.07            £1,822        1.08            £825        1.09    £78        £2,187        1.10    £225        £3,516        1.11    £93        £1,804        1.12    £75        £3,508        1.13            £1,708        1.14            £326        1.15            £1,436        1.16            £1,544        1.17            £508        1.18            £382        1.19            £388        1.2            £3,082

amazes me that people see a 1.01 gubbing as a sign of good liquidity, when in fact, it is likely indicative of the opposite. Either way, bring on the 1.01s

Was about to say the exact same Keefter. There's some markets I've seen recently where it looks like utter desperation to get matched at any price possible because liquidity is so poor. (and I can be guilty of that myself).

Wasn't just the 28k at 1.01 though, it is pretty much 4 figures matched near every price up to 1.2

Would be interesting to know form those who say liquidity is poor, how much are they usually trying to get matched?

And is that i/r?

Hola mousey

i didnt bet in the race but liquidity looked awful most of the race with 3 figure sums either side of the line a rarity, obviously when things hot up late the boxes etc get busy but thats no good to the vast majority watching the pictures at home behind the twitchers/drones(?)/boxes/facetimers

you watch other sports popular sports and its completely different throughout

Only Money

Mar 29, 2019 -- 6:20PM, Wesdag wrote:

Would be interesting to know form those who say liquidity is poor, how much are they usually trying to get matched?And is that i/r?

My amounts on the horse racing aren't high,

But those three football amounts I quoted above, I'd tried to put in I'd guess either £75 or £100 each time. While all our amounts are relative only to ourselves, I got significantly less than 1% on two of my attempted bets. And that's just the one example on what I expected, being a televised England international, would or should be among the better liquid markets on the football.

jamesdean    29 Mar 19 16:23 
I predict the same people moaning about it this year will be on here next year, still moaning.
We've had the same type thread every year for the last decade if not more

That's not to say liquidity isn't low or that a boost wouldn't be much welcomed, just saying there's still plenty to be had





Spot on, jamesdean.
See you all again on the same thread next year.

On the flip side, liquidity on the IPL looks like it's still very high. And I'm sure you can no longer bet direct from India any more.

Doesn't the women's cricket have good liquid as well? I think ZODIE and the butch found an edge in that stuff.

Mar 29, 2019 -- 6:28PM, Darlo Bantam wrote:

Mar 29, 2019 --  5:20PM, Wesdag wrote:Would be interesting to know form those who say liquidity is poor, how much are they usually trying to get matched?And is that i/r?My amounts on the horse racing aren't high,But those three football amounts I quoted above, I'd tried to put in I'd guess either £75 or £100 each time. While all our amounts are relative only to ourselves, I got significantly less than 1% on two of my attempted bets. And that's just the one example on what I expected, being a televised England international, would or should be among the better liquid markets on the football.

Could it not be what you deemed to be value wasn't value for the other side of the bet?

A tick or 2 above/below depending on whether you were laying/backing & obvs you get matched.

Regardless, that is about lack of volume. In a good market anyone can have a bet at the displaying price.

You are right Wesdag. There's many approaches to betting on here, so we'll all judge liquidity differently, and for the same reason you can't judge whether it's a change in liquidity or something else.

I do believe that the overall amounts (which isn't the same as real liquidity) for Cheltenham was down on last year.

2 or 3k matched on most plaice markets (standard term ones) IR, used to be 20k+

Tons of futility in nostalgia, mousey..

I don't grumble. Not like them remoaners or whatever they call themselves.

The point is, whatever the true price is, the difference between that and what you are shown is determined by the take out merchants

Institutional is the word. Quite how it happens when regulators make merry out of stopping kids play pitch and toss is anyones guess

mousey, good to hear. These constant Brexit debates has bored me to tears. Whenever I see anything about it I immediately move away from it.

dusty, how much are the take out merchants taking?

ProSniper

"Used to be a slight difference between back & lay but now gap is enormous" That isn't anything to moan about..if you're consistently on the right end of it. Ironically, most of the moaners are filthy arbers, fast pic thieves, owners of beasts that ain't trying a leg until their money is down etc..

Not moaning about it (because I don't play I/R now), just putting it forward as one of the reasons why liquidity has become so poor

Dont know Prosniper

What I know for absolute is that money from people who think they have a chance is the lifeblood of the exchange
If they stand by and do nothing then the thing died on their watch

Premium Charge
Racetech camera angles
Racing TV showing delayed Irish racing
Digital TV signal replacing faster analogue
Technology improving so more sharks on course

Slow the pics on all screen on course to that of off course
It simple
dont allow bungs to have paid for privilige
everything derives from that

the PC itself came as a reult of the market, which was always made of people gaining advantage
If the insider trading was stopped on course then all things become equilibrium off course
and more people win and lose naturally, so premium charge become irrelevant

'Slow the pics on all screen on course to that of off course'

cringe.

all pics come from the same point and are delayed as a result of the infrastructure they are processed through.

All on course pics should be slowed....just as some have tried to slow the main screen that jockeys use during racing.

If its good enough to slow for the jockeys its good enough to slow for those trading in the boxes

its been like this for 17yrs ydc.

What has the amount of time something has been under regulated got to do with anything?

Are you saying all pics on course are the same speed?

warp factor 8.

I remember when they did the investigation around 2011, the incompetent Review said something to the effect of because hospitality boxes aren’t sold as trading rooms then they are ok.
So because demand outstrips supply, meaning courses don’t have to advertise at all the things that occur in those boxes does that make the actions in them permissable?

The pictures are vehicles for gambling, selling access to privileges is no less wrong than allowing access to trade on share prices before anyone else on the LSE.

what about people who que all night in freezing temps to get 1st in the que for the boxing day sale?  do you thinks its unfair?

The comparable would be to be allowed in during closed hours

It’s not being at the front of the queue, it’s seeing the result before those down the line.

How come passing information is not allowed....but betting on the result before all other is?

Better to go through the front window in a f**king JCB imo.

dont see the result before anyone,there is no result until the jockeys have weighed in.

Superficial argument, on the law of averages all you’d need to see is the first past the post before anyone else who’s in the position to bet on it in order to profit.

From the Tim Brennan encounter the bha said

"which might be used to gain an unfair advantage in the betting market intending to make a gain for himself or another and/or to cause loss to another".

The unfair advantage IR is purchased in plain sight, 100s of thousands every race. Why is that not also gaining an unfair advantage?

A vet giving information about what ‘might happen’ as a result of factors

IR bets on actual winners

*or for the pedantic first past the post

anyone can go courtside at a tennis match...99.9% wont becos they are layseekhuunts.

But they look out for people at tennis court siding and stop them doing it

Courses are in league with people who purchase finite places on track for the single purpose of doing the same
They aren’t selling hospitality, they are selling trading room advantages.
If it were hospitality then slow the pic by 0.5s and see how hospitable they remain.

The amount of effort one goes to to gain an unfair advantage isn’t a just effort, why you keep banging that drum I have no idea

if you were one of the rueben bros and could make your company hundreds of thousands ev yr selling boxes without fear of reprisals what would you do?

What has that got to do with the fact that those tasked with making betting fair and clean are not doing their job?

bit like the government..lifes a bitch.

I’ve always said, if a person were given the chance to take as much money from a pallet as they wanted on the premise they wouldn’t have to answer for it, most people would take the lot.
But that’s what the regulations are there for, to keep people honest.

drout.

Rico any ideas how far the Irish live is behind the BlV ? thx in advance

Thread is 6 years behind although the rest is just conjecture.

the answer to the question is that Betfair starting rotating horse race positions when the market is formed.If you don,t believe me go and ask past customers why they stopped betting with Betfair.Its only last week that they lost another few hundred customers when they rotated a MOORE/O BRIEN horse that lost but most who backed it thought it won ,only to learn that Betfair moved it from top place to second place in the live betting just before the off.

500k plus .440 yesterday
700k plus very next race 5.00.
The glory days are back

450

They can rotate every horse in every race every minute......only effects the ones with nurses nearby

Fred,you must never go into a bookie office or a race course,if you did you would know its the main topic of  conversation.

Weres nursey.....with them meds......2pm is meds time

The meds work wonders with my eyesight

WBA 31 Mar 26 22:34 
Rico any ideas how far the Irish live is behind the BlV ? thx in advance

was same as britain last week -1.3

But you can not see the 5 year old problem,and they lose another customer every time they do it.
and i hope you can see where this story ends.

tecknolodgy has tekkin ower..pre ok last 20 mins..in running is all controlled...no free crumbs ennimare.

Weres James and Dixie for confirmation

Apr 1, 2026 -- 2:42PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:

tecknolodgy has tekkin ower..pre ok last 20 mins..in running is all controlled...no free crumbs ennimare.

Exactly. You see this in sports too. Markets are formed instantly and hits the market before you blink an eye. So much for p2p and death to the bookie

Apr 1, 2026 -- 2:48PM, freddiewilliams wrote:

Weres James and Dixie for confirmation

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Simply the best

The king is dead......long live the king

Plenty better than me. Dixie makes much more per race but trades a lot less.

Where are all the 2019 posters....still here under a nom de plume...or gone de plume

WBA 31 Mar 26 22:34
Rico any ideas how far the Irish live is behind the BlV ? thx in advance

was same as britain last week -1.3

Thought britain was 0.6ish blv from live ? when on RtV

jamee, a good month, what's the last year looking like?

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From 01 Apr 2025 to 31 Mar 2026, you've won

+ £162,481.07

Cracking year. Is it correct you only see 17k out of the extra 63k above the threshold?

£58k expert fee paid.

not a bad year all the same!

@jamee1, do you only trade pre race? or do you also trade IR? Your profit is insane, my bank is only ever in minus, is there any training you can recommend for newbies or books, any advice how you learnt?

swiftynifty 01 Apr 26 16:34 
Cracking year. Is it correct you only see 17k out of the extra 63k above the threshold?

I assumed you paid 40% once your last 52 weeks was £100,000,how would -40% of £62,400 leave you with only £17,000?

Cant fathom how Jamee1 has paid £58,000 expert fee either.If its 20% of £25,000 > £100,000 which is £15,000 and 40% of £100,000 > £164,000 which is approx £25,000 which totals £40,000.
How do they take £58,000?

Hugo if you're over the £100K threshold (last 52 weeks) you pay 40% on the lot.

Yes i understand that if your last 52 weeks is above £100,000 your next £164,000 profit is 40% of £164,000. Didnt it all reset beginning of 2025 to zero when expert fee began though?

no, wishful thinking.