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Heading across the Irish Sea next month, I'm going to 7 meetings in 7 days. Basing myself in Huddersfield so returning every night. In that week I'll do 1,500mls and will be shattered by the end of it. Dane O'Neill did a 10 hour return journey yesterday to Newcastle for one ride, most of these guys do this kind of driving for 9 months of the year, more if doing the a/w . I'm heading to Naas soon enough its a couple of miles down the road yet I've already fell asleep for a little nap..You really have to respect these guys and the effort they put in on a daily basis...
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Most of the top jockeys - if they don't fly/helicopter - have a Driver.
Some of the others may 'double-up/share with another jockey, when convenient... or in the case of rides for just one trainer - travel with the trainer.
Plenty possible permutations - You wouldn't expect each and every jockey to just drive themselves everywhere, ever day, alone.
Some of the others may 'double-up/share with another jockey, when convenient... or in the case of rides for just one trainer - travel with the trainer.
Plenty possible permutations - You wouldn't expect each and every jockey to just drive themselves everywhere, ever day, alone.
10 hours in a day in a car is not fun whether you are driving or not
Because of some much racing plenty are earning 500 quid a DAY at least. Plenty in the industrial wage wouldn't mind travelling for that sort of money.
Onlooker, I think you are under the misconception that EVERY jockey is at the top table, many of these lads live hand to mouth. Young jockeys have huge insurance premiums which they can hardly afford, of course many do pool cars etc, but the driving still has to be done...
Beside all the wasting etc ...Try driving with the heater on full blast and the needle pointing to 27 degrees plus ...
Cant remember exact figure but according to stats jockeys drive an average of something like 70-80,000 miles a year which works out around 200 miles a day. It sounds totally insane because thats exactly what it is.
Jul 25, 2018 -- 4:14PM, workrider wrote:
Beside all the wasting etc ...Try driving with the heater on full blast and the needle pointing to 27 degrees plus ...
Sounds like the bus up to Derry
When I rode, had I ever had a car crash, my insurance would have been well and truly void. I put on my insurance form I was a stable hand and that I drove 12,000 miles a year. If I put I was a jockey driving 50,000 miles a year, my premiums would have been huge.
When I was claiming, it cost me money to ride if I had 1 or 2 rides and even as a pro, I would always try and share the drive. Going back 5 years ago, going from Newmarket to say Catterick for 2 rides, would have cost me about £80 in Diesel, and I would have got £120 ish per ride, so say £240. From this my Valet would have got £10 a race, my agent 10%, so we're at £195, then there's diesel to take off so we're at £115. That would be if I had two rides. I would break even on 1 ride, and that's before tax. I would have taken home maybe £80 after deductions on a day of 2 rides, and then you have to consider upkeep of your car, insurance, cost of all your riding gear and so on.
Unless you had 3 rides, you could earn more riding 4/5 lots at home for someone, and maybe picking up a couple more lots elsewhere for another trainer.
Very few riders would be making £500 a day ! You would need 8/9 rides a day to earn that.
Any jockey riding less than 3 horses every day is not making money at all.
When I was claiming, it cost me money to ride if I had 1 or 2 rides and even as a pro, I would always try and share the drive. Going back 5 years ago, going from Newmarket to say Catterick for 2 rides, would have cost me about £80 in Diesel, and I would have got £120 ish per ride, so say £240. From this my Valet would have got £10 a race, my agent 10%, so we're at £195, then there's diesel to take off so we're at £115. That would be if I had two rides. I would break even on 1 ride, and that's before tax. I would have taken home maybe £80 after deductions on a day of 2 rides, and then you have to consider upkeep of your car, insurance, cost of all your riding gear and so on.
Unless you had 3 rides, you could earn more riding 4/5 lots at home for someone, and maybe picking up a couple more lots elsewhere for another trainer.
Very few riders would be making £500 a day ! You would need 8/9 rides a day to earn that.
Any jockey riding less than 3 horses every day is not making money at all.
Domino I'm not talking about back in the day, but present day where very poor jockeys ate getting 5 rides at least a day. Fwiw regular workers also have petrol, insurance etc costs.
The idea of car pooling is great in theory but if you're a struggling freelancer driving 100 miles to ride work in the morning, because there's a decent ride going you're trying to nail down, and then have another 200 miles to get to the racecourse after, it's not going to work out more often than not.
Yes MJK but most people in normal jobs will have lower premiums and less fuel costs than jockeys.
Flat riders only get around £130 a ride now, it's only £10-15 more now than it was in 2013 when I stopped riding.
They get nearly £200 over jumps though and it was near £170 5 years ago when I packed up.
Very few riders are getting 5 rides a day.
Maybe one attached to a big yard, but the majority of journeyman get 1 or 2 a day.
Even top jocks struggle to get more than 3 or 4 these days.
Only chance of a decent book is when there are two meetings close together and you are in demand.
Flat riders only get around £130 a ride now, it's only £10-15 more now than it was in 2013 when I stopped riding.
They get nearly £200 over jumps though and it was near £170 5 years ago when I packed up.
Very few riders are getting 5 rides a day.
Maybe one attached to a big yard, but the majority of journeyman get 1 or 2 a day.
Even top jocks struggle to get more than 3 or 4 these days.
Only chance of a decent book is when there are two meetings close together and you are in demand.
Yes MJK but most people in normal jobs will have lower premiums and less fuel costs than jockeys.
Flat riders only get around £130 a ride now, it's only £10-15 more now than it was in 2013 when I stopped riding.
They get nearly £200 over jumps though and it was near £170 5 years ago when I packed up.
Very few riders are getting 5 rides a day.
Maybe one attached to a big yard, but the majority of journeyman get 1 or 2 a day.
Even top jocks struggle to get more than 3 or 4 these days.
Only chance of a decent book is when there are two meetings close together and you are in demand.
Flat riders only get around £130 a ride now, it's only £10-15 more now than it was in 2013 when I stopped riding.
They get nearly £200 over jumps though and it was near £170 5 years ago when I packed up.
Very few riders are getting 5 rides a day.
Maybe one attached to a big yard, but the majority of journeyman get 1 or 2 a day.
Even top jocks struggle to get more than 3 or 4 these days.
Only chance of a decent book is when there are two meetings close together and you are in demand.
MJK any chance you coming over with me and sharing the costs!...Derry bus...
..Off to Naas talk later...
..Off to Naas talk later...
You should get some form of compo from somewhere for staying in Huddersfield
I covered 70,000 miles during my first full year in the industry .
that's the main reason haley turner stopped riding for a while - long hours driving low wage
Dale Gibson singled out Dane O'Neill yesterday as an example of a jockey travelling miles and miles for just one ride, and workrider uses the same example in his opening post, but while I take the principal of the point, not sure that was the best example to highlight given O'Neill is probably on a decent retainer and it's not as if it's a regular occurrence for him, as prior to yesterday he'd only had 3 rides at Newcastle in the last 5 seasons.
And do we know he definitely drove up?
And do we know he definitely drove up?
George B
If you think Dane O'Neill gets any form of monetary reward for being Sheikh Hamdan's second jockey you are sadly mistaken. You won't find any retained jockeys getting a payment as such, it is pure media fantasy. Some of my best mates have been retained by big yards and never got anything from it. At most they may supply you with a car and pay insurance and fuel, but there is no fee involved just a promise of rides as such.
If you think Dane O'Neill gets any form of monetary reward for being Sheikh Hamdan's second jockey you are sadly mistaken. You won't find any retained jockeys getting a payment as such, it is pure media fantasy. Some of my best mates have been retained by big yards and never got anything from it. At most they may supply you with a car and pay insurance and fuel, but there is no fee involved just a promise of rides as such.
Jul 26, 2018 -- 3:37AM, domino14 wrote:
George BIf you think Dane O'Neill gets any form of monetary reward for being Sheikh Hamdan's second jockey you are sadly mistaken. You won't find any retained jockeys getting a payment as such, it is pure media fantasy. Some of my best mates have been retained by big yards and never got anything from it. At most they may supply you with a car and pay insurance and fuel, but there is no fee involved just a promise of rides as such.
Yikes I didn't know that.
Apparently the old regular gamblers were up and down the motorway half their lives going to meetings.
I remember one who was usually at the Midlands jump meetings along with his pal the Dodger.
The story goes that the Dodger was killed in a car accident on his way from an afternoon meeting to a night meeting.
Driving all over the country isn't much fun for anybody.
But neither is driving a lorry, a van, or even a bus.
Spare a thought for them before you sympathise with people who do a glamorous job like race riding.
I remember one who was usually at the Midlands jump meetings along with his pal the Dodger.
The story goes that the Dodger was killed in a car accident on his way from an afternoon meeting to a night meeting.
Driving all over the country isn't much fun for anybody.
But neither is driving a lorry, a van, or even a bus.
Spare a thought for them before you sympathise with people who do a glamorous job like race riding.
I think lorry drivers are regulated unlike jockeys, who maybe start at 5am and sometimes don't finish till 11pm .That's the difference...
@Dr Crippen
If you think race riding is a glamorous job, you are sadly mistaken. It might be nice for the elite who can pick and chose their rides, but I can assure you, for those struggling to get buy it's not enjoyable. By the end of 2007 I was sick to death of going to meetings for the odd ride here and there, normally for a small trainer on something with no form, that you'll sweat your arse off to ride, then be weak as a kitten, only for it to pull like hell, and be a dangerous ride and the only reason you're on it, is because no one else would take the ride. If it wouldn't have been for the support of a big yard I would have packed up. I then went abroad to try and further a career but it was just as tough and despite a fair amount of success the money is way worse abroad. the flip side is what you can earn off prize is way better, but you get less for a ride and you find it very hard to get outside rides, as normally each yard has 2/3 jockeys.
The sad reality is, those driving a bus, lorry or van, are probably taking home after tax a lot more than your average journeyman jockey and they aren't putting their lives at risk to get on some bear which hasn't been taught properly at home. I remember in my last couple of years before I went abroad, I rode a 2yo first time out for a trainer and I would have sworn it hadn't been broken in, it fly lept to the start, was a nightmare in the stalls, fly lept out them and proceeded to have no mouth or breaks in the race. I actually complained to the stewards when I got in that the horse was dangerous, and shouldn't be on the track.
Find me the toughest bloke around, and I'll put them on a horse that will scare the life out of them, and then they may realise just what the lesser riders put themselves through every day.
I was racing at Kempton earlier in the year and saw Dettori down to ride one for an average yard. The horse was having a play in the paddock, nothing insincere just fresh. Dettori turned the trainer and said I thought you told my agent this was quiet. He proceeded to give it zero ride in the race, like he made his mind up he didn't want to ride it before he even got on it.
Only last week, Charlie Bishop refused to ride a horse at Newmarket as he thought it was dangerous. The guys who are struggling in this game, going everywhere for one or two, ride those horses 6 days a week. I remember Ollie Pears once riding a right bear, and when he started training he made a joke that he only rides the quiet ones at home, his days of riding out the bears are long gone. The sad fact now, as I found out in 2013 and 2014, was the kids coming into the game, can barely ride, they wont get on anything. When I was an apprentice, you were made to ride all the bears in the yard, it was part of the short straw if you wanted to get on. I remember riding out at Stoutes one morning and getting told walking out the yard, to change onto louis phillipe's horse, because it was too much for him and he couldn't ride it! I got on it and yes it was a c u next tuesday, but the difference was, that was the yard apprentice saying he couldn't ride something and one of the older lads chucked up on it, in my day as an apprentice I would have been told, if you can't ride them all you don't ride any.
If anyone thinks riding racehorses whether it be at home or on the track is glamorous, they are very mistaken. The boys at the top may pick and chose, but that isn't a luxury for most !
If you think race riding is a glamorous job, you are sadly mistaken. It might be nice for the elite who can pick and chose their rides, but I can assure you, for those struggling to get buy it's not enjoyable. By the end of 2007 I was sick to death of going to meetings for the odd ride here and there, normally for a small trainer on something with no form, that you'll sweat your arse off to ride, then be weak as a kitten, only for it to pull like hell, and be a dangerous ride and the only reason you're on it, is because no one else would take the ride. If it wouldn't have been for the support of a big yard I would have packed up. I then went abroad to try and further a career but it was just as tough and despite a fair amount of success the money is way worse abroad. the flip side is what you can earn off prize is way better, but you get less for a ride and you find it very hard to get outside rides, as normally each yard has 2/3 jockeys.
The sad reality is, those driving a bus, lorry or van, are probably taking home after tax a lot more than your average journeyman jockey and they aren't putting their lives at risk to get on some bear which hasn't been taught properly at home. I remember in my last couple of years before I went abroad, I rode a 2yo first time out for a trainer and I would have sworn it hadn't been broken in, it fly lept to the start, was a nightmare in the stalls, fly lept out them and proceeded to have no mouth or breaks in the race. I actually complained to the stewards when I got in that the horse was dangerous, and shouldn't be on the track.
Find me the toughest bloke around, and I'll put them on a horse that will scare the life out of them, and then they may realise just what the lesser riders put themselves through every day.
I was racing at Kempton earlier in the year and saw Dettori down to ride one for an average yard. The horse was having a play in the paddock, nothing insincere just fresh. Dettori turned the trainer and said I thought you told my agent this was quiet. He proceeded to give it zero ride in the race, like he made his mind up he didn't want to ride it before he even got on it.
Only last week, Charlie Bishop refused to ride a horse at Newmarket as he thought it was dangerous. The guys who are struggling in this game, going everywhere for one or two, ride those horses 6 days a week. I remember Ollie Pears once riding a right bear, and when he started training he made a joke that he only rides the quiet ones at home, his days of riding out the bears are long gone. The sad fact now, as I found out in 2013 and 2014, was the kids coming into the game, can barely ride, they wont get on anything. When I was an apprentice, you were made to ride all the bears in the yard, it was part of the short straw if you wanted to get on. I remember riding out at Stoutes one morning and getting told walking out the yard, to change onto louis phillipe's horse, because it was too much for him and he couldn't ride it! I got on it and yes it was a c u next tuesday, but the difference was, that was the yard apprentice saying he couldn't ride something and one of the older lads chucked up on it, in my day as an apprentice I would have been told, if you can't ride them all you don't ride any.
If anyone thinks riding racehorses whether it be at home or on the track is glamorous, they are very mistaken. The boys at the top may pick and chose, but that isn't a luxury for most !
I'm not going to argue with you domino12 as the proof would appear to be in the in the pudding, with both Tadger O'Shea and Martin Dwyer having the left the job in recent years, the latter to slum it as a freelance and the former to ride for the Partick Thistle fella.
Sure quite a few find a way to "suppliment their income"
I wont be reaching for the tissues or settin up a relief fund either
I wont be reaching for the tissues or settin up a relief fund either
domino, would you think Dwyer regrets his decision to quit the second job, still not a bad number if you throw in getting on a decent one enough times and lucrative winters in Dubai?
Oh, and who knows, he might have got the numero uno job when Hills retired!
Oh, and who knows, he might have got the numero uno job when Hills retired!
domino14 -
"£80 Diesel for Newmarket/Catterick trip" ...
-----
Most Diesels do a minimum 50/60 miles to the gallon -
What were you driving - a Tractor?
"£80 Diesel for Newmarket/Catterick trip" ...
-----
Most Diesels do a minimum 50/60 miles to the gallon -
What were you driving - a Tractor?
I think the problem with Martin was he wasn't too willing to travel to Newmarket, Middleham and so on to ride out. It suited him in Lambourn when the main trainers were Tregoning, Hills, and so on. Richard often rode out the ones in Newmarket. Martin also wasn't keen on riding abroad in the winter, he wanted to stay in England and ride on the all weather and try and get good rides, as he knew in Dubai Doug Watson who was Hamdan's main trainer at the time, would always use Hills and his own riders before Martin.
When it came down to it, Hamdan started having horses with a lot more trainers and the job wasn't feasible for Martin. Had you been on say a retainer it may have been worth it, but Martin has always struck me as someone would rather have it comfortable than to graft. I think the Hamdan 2nd job was a cushy number whilst it suited him.
Dwyer would have never been number one, as the bigger trainers for Hamdan, Stoute / Gosden / Varian and Johnston didn't really like him.
When it came down to it, Hamdan started having horses with a lot more trainers and the job wasn't feasible for Martin. Had you been on say a retainer it may have been worth it, but Martin has always struck me as someone would rather have it comfortable than to graft. I think the Hamdan 2nd job was a cushy number whilst it suited him.
Dwyer would have never been number one, as the bigger trainers for Hamdan, Stoute / Gosden / Varian and Johnston didn't really like him.
@Onlooker
It's about 410 miles there and back . My card used to cost about £80 to fill up a 60 litre tank, which got me between 400 and 500 miles depending how much traffic you hit. I drove an Audi TT.
It's about 410 miles there and back . My card used to cost about £80 to fill up a 60 litre tank, which got me between 400 and 500 miles depending how much traffic you hit. I drove an Audi TT.
^ He's only 5'3" and couldn't reach the pedals, so had to employ somebody taller to do the actual driving.
50/60 miles to the gallon !! I wish, I barely get 25 miles to the gallon out of my current car.
@Johnny
Lol, I wish. Could never afford a driver. When I was at Stoute's I spent many a time going on the horse box to save money !
Lol, I wish. Could never afford a driver. When I was at Stoute's I spent many a time going on the horse box to save money !
Yet despite the bleating about the job, any shortage of jockeys is caused by weight issues rather than people who don't want to do it.
I'll stand by the attractive glamour of race riding over the drudgery of doing a regular job.
I'll stand by the attractive glamour of race riding over the drudgery of doing a regular job.
@Dr Crippen
There are no kids leaving school wanting to go into racing. Trainers have to employ from abroad and that's going to be a lot tougher now.
They are even paying 2/3 ex jockeys like Ollie McPhail and Derek Byrne to go round schools and try and promote racing as an industry.
The staff crisis is because people dont want to work long hours, in a high risk job for little pay.
There are no kids leaving school wanting to go into racing. Trainers have to employ from abroad and that's going to be a lot tougher now.
They are even paying 2/3 ex jockeys like Ollie McPhail and Derek Byrne to go round schools and try and promote racing as an industry.
The staff crisis is because people dont want to work long hours, in a high risk job for little pay.
Cheers, domino.
I think he said to the press at the time, the main issue was having to wait for Hills to decide where he would be riding and as the decision would often be left late, it meant Dwyer couldn't book rides outside of the retainer as he didn't know which meeting(s) he would be riding at, and as a result he felt he was burning too many bridges.
I think he said to the press at the time, the main issue was having to wait for Hills to decide where he would be riding and as the decision would often be left late, it meant Dwyer couldn't book rides outside of the retainer as he didn't know which meeting(s) he would be riding at, and as a result he felt he was burning too many bridges.
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