5.40 Leicester 3 place market with 7 runners

Have you emailed them about it? Genuine question.

I certainly did barton. It was on Facebook Messenger and I will see if I can find their reply.

are u comparing like for like there? An 8 runner with a non is a bit diff to 7 to begin with?

I seem to have deleted their reply but it went along the lines that the figures didn't justify retaining it.
Whoever looked at these figure certainly took no notice of the extra 2 place markets and anyone on here that plays in these markets will tell you that those 2 place markets are a waste of time. The problem is that people complained about a dilution of liquidity in the place market and Betfair listened and removed the wrong markets.

Fear, I am talking about the 5.40 Leicester which had 7 runners with 1 withdrawn which meant both markets were available. Had there been no withdrawal then only the 2 place market would have been available.

Their removal has really put a dent in my profits :(

Talked to them on live chat and was given the same answer regarding diluting liquidity, funnily enough they had no answer when I asked why the 2TBP and 4TBP markets remain.

On the upside, he told me that betfair were monitoring the situation (doesnt fill me with confidence)

Hopefully they come back in future, cant see why theyve been singled out given some of the mickey mouse markets that remain across all sports, and given the commission they'll be missing out on.

Looking through Saturdays cards has left me in a mild temper with a total of 18 (FFS) races that I would normally bet on at around 200 a race that I need to rule out instead of play in

Jetlonestar, the problem is that we never get to speak to the right people on these live chat things. They are just following up on a script prepared for them and in my case had no idea what I was talking about.

I have found their response to my first contact.

Update email from betfair who simply do not understand what we are talking about despite me spelling it out to them over the phone.



Thanks for getting in touch.

I am contacting you in relation to the 3 place markets on our site.

I had a look into this for you xxxx and even though there isn't a specific market called 3 place market, this can usually still be found in the place market.

Below is an example of the markets being offered on one of the Newmarket races tomorrow.



As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out. In this case this market is paying out at 3 places, as can be seen below.






I do apologise for any inconveniences that this may have caused you.

Thanks,

Julian

Betfair Customer Service Management

Follow up email from betfair below.



Thanks for getting in touch.

After checking with our Exchange team, we can confirm that due to a business decision we have removed certain extra place markets from our Exchange. This is part of the ongoing rationalisation project, which essentially seeks to focus liquidity on our markets thus ensuring an optimal betting customer experience overall. As of Monday 4th June the below changes have come into effect.

• No 3TBP markets for GB/IRE races with 7 runners or less
• No place market (TBP) at all for GB/IRE races with 3 runners

I have attached a handy tab;le which clarified which markets are going to remain and which will be removed for your clarification.

I have also passed on your feedback from our end regarding the change in question.

Apologies if this is not the answer you wished to hear.

Should you still wish a callback regarding the above kindly reply with a suitable time frame for the next 72hours so that we can get that set up for you.

Thanks,

7.35 Hamilton, 7 runners and instead of a 3 place market we have a "how far market" fot the odds on fav.
Just £728 matched

i wonder what the real reason is then?

Imo they should cull the quiet markets in general though. Although this will be disappointing for the small amount of winners who use them it's a good policy overall.

the how far market is silly on an exchange apart from a big race

seriously?

The 3 place market in this case is the standard market.  The only point you are making is that all other place markets should be binned (and that would include the one you have been constantly moaning about)

for instance no place on a 3 runner hits me but it forces me onto the win

you aiming that at me dave? how is 3 to place the norm in a 7 runner? Yes id bin 2 and 4 it took money from the place market traditional.

dave, you have told us before that you don't want any extra markets. The majority of place market backers do want them and we have explained why.

majority? when was that vote?!

apologies dave if yours was aimed at sparrow

What is your objection fear?>

I think there are a few people here who would be better off with a bookmaker rather than an exchange with a variety of different opportunities.

Your agin a laugh ain't ya

Love a bet in those races

Sort this mr sparrow

Not that it'll happen but id be content enough just having the 3TBP on 7 runner races, might be rage induced paranoia but they seem to be ******* everywhere

sparrow • June 28, 2018 7:47 PM BST
dave, you have told us before that you don't want any extra markets. The majority of place market backers do want them and we have explained why.

You said in your original post that the two place market was empty.  Why were the "majority of place backers" not betting in it?

imo the exchange should be as simple as possible for recreational players - one place market - and provide the best value - high liquidity and minimum spread.

@TheFear I was indeed replying to sparrow

todays been bad, apart from newcastle which is unplayable as it is, it seems like 50% of the races from the other tracks must have had 7 runners or less and no extra markets. One of the most boring days I can remember and considering its a thursday, youd expect a hell of lot better.

dont think ive had a bet matched tonight beyond a fiver. Luckily won this avo

Take a look at Saturday @wicklow

2K matched on the 7 runner place market so far in the 9.10 compared with the 20k in the 8 runner+ markets with the time time til the races.

@Dave it isnt a case of people wanting a shedload of extra place markets as proven by the fact we would be happy if they got rid of the 2TBP and 4TBP in standard races (Their liquidity was far worse than 3TBP. Alot of place backers want that 3rd place option proven by the difference in liquidity in the now 'standard' place markets with 8.

dave1357    28 Jun 18 20:44 
sparrow • June 28, 2018 7:47 PM BST
dave, you have told us before that you don't want any extra markets. The majority of place market backers do want them and we have explained why.

You said in your original post that the two place market was empty.  Why were the "majority of place backers" not betting in it?

imo the exchange should be as simple as possible for recreational players - one place market - and provide the best value - high liquidity and minimum spread.

@TheFear I was indeed replying to sparrow





Dave, the point is the place backers in that particular race had chosen the 3 place market overwhelmingly over the 2 place market. You are trying to read something that isn't there at all. Quite simply 7 times as much money was bet in one market than the other.

meant to read difference in 8 or more versus less than 8.

It's only the extra 2 place market that needed removing. The 4 place extra is fairly well used.

Im an in running player primarily so the 4TBP was usually dead, preraced ive used it quite a bit in the past and ye agree that liquidity wasnt that bad.

Another 7 runner race to finish

Our argument is solely based on liquidity and not a personal preference.

These EW markets are something I never bother with and whenever I look there is very little punted. They really shouldn't have any place on the exchanges as it's just an old traditional bookmakers bet.

Dave, the point is the place backers in that particular race had chosen the 3 place market overwhelmingly over the 2 place market. You are trying to read something that isn't there at all. Quite simply 7 times as much money was bet in one market than the other

bollocks, it is *the* place market just like a two place market is the main market for a race with seven declared runners.

I was comparing the difference in liquidity between the standard place market ie 2 places in 7 runners or less compared to the place market ie 3 places with 8 or more runners. Out of interest have you seen significant improvement in the standard place market now that 3TBP has been removed - Id be willing to wager its alot less than the liquidity lost by removing 3TBP as alot of people like having that 3rd place option.

But if punters were going to choose an alternative place market they'd be more likely to go for the extra place than the one with less places. Have we been over this before?

No JLS, no noticable improvement in the standard place markets, as predicted. It's all downhill from here

Dave must simply be a 2 place market layer.

Corruption is why they were removed.

I think you might need to elaborate on that, domino.

sparrow • June 29, 2018 6:22 AM BST
Dave must simply be a 2 place market layer

No I always lay in the standard market as that is where the liquidity is. If that is the two place market then I will use that or not bet.  I will also even play in 3 places in 6 runners if I think a horse might run badly.

bollocks, it is *the* place market just like a two place market is the main market for a race with seven declared runners.

agree

@Sparrow

Place markets in 3 horse races, are usually very short odds.

Say said horse is 4/1 outsider to win race, it could be as little as evens to place.

Gives incentive for a horse to be assured last place.

There have been some dodgy drifts in some of these markets which the BHA notified to Betfair.

BHA notified to Betfair

ha ha ha oh my sides ha ha

Whatever disagreements regarding the place markets, I had a similar reaction to dave, as if either of them give a toss about corruption

Back on topic, looks like we'll be having Sunday off @sparrow, small field galore

Dave and fear can toddle off back to the bookmakers and try to pretend it's still 1985.

Sparrow, I am fairly sure that both Dave and Fear know what they are doing and make the game pay without the need to toddle back to the bookmakers.

flukes,  If they are layers protecting their own interests then I would probably agree with you.

Hope liquidity improves today


Horse Racing: £0.01  Total P&L:  £0.01

Horse Racing > Donc 29th Jun : 4 TBP     Showing 1 - 1 of 1 Selections
Selection     Odds     Stake(£)     Bid type     Placed     Profit/loss(£)
Golden Guest     1.40     0.03     Back     29-Jun-18 14:03     0.01
*Average odds: On Off     Back subtotal:     0.01
Lay subtotal:     0.00
Market subtotal:     0.01
Commission :     0.00
Net Market Total:     0.01

domino  14,,

did you ever pull any of your mounts.

i dont understand the stuck in the past jibes, sparrow. The issue is liquidity (as i might have mentioned once or twice). It's dire on here so imo they shd cull the less popular markets to increase liquidity elsewhere. I have nothing against this market one way or the other tho.

3 pays 2 up now, who's taking a pull?

@TheFear

"It's [liquidity] dire on here so imo they shd cull the less popular markets to increase liquidity elsewhere."

How does that work?  If I want to bet on 3TBP and BF cull it, do I put my money up on 2TBP or Win instead?  I don't think so, I just don't play that bet or (if offered) I play it on Purple or MB.

not in my opinion, some extra money would make the place. Someone might have £25 on first 2 and £25 on first 3. Now they might have £50 on first 2.

And with in running if there's no place market in a 3 runner i switch from place to win. As an example.

it's also a poor advert for BF when pennies are matched on these markets

Longbridge has explained it perfectly to you fear.
I explained it to you in my opening post whereby 7 times as much was bet in the 3 place market as opposed to the 2 place market in that 5.40 race yesterday.
In the first race today there were 7 runners and no 3 place market and so I did not bet.
I am not going to repeat all of this anymore.

I really don't get it.  It's like saying BF should drop Curling markets so they get more money on Football, imho.  If I can't bet on what I want to bet on here, I don't bet or I bet elsewhere.  If (eg) I'm trying to arb a bookie bet  that's had NRs so no longer offering the same Place terms as BF, I need the right TBP market to lay it off into.

dave explained to you why that was, because it was the ACTUAL place market. GL it's not that big a deal to me anyway.

It's not "ACTUAL" in any real sense other than bookmakers' convention - it's not the horses that get place prize money.

And if it's not a big deal for you, why support the cull, when it clearly is (on this and other threads) a big deal for those that miss those markets?

Have tried the 'standard' place market today (with half stakes ofc) and did reasonably well, although the 1 loser that ended up 3rd left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth. Cant say I found the liquidity much better than when I could play the 3TBP in the same market.

@Cardenden

No never, actually won on two horses, who I was told not to win on.

is this sorted yet mr sparrow

aint reading 43 posts

Jun 29, 2018 -- 5:57PM, domino14 wrote:

@CardendenNo never, actually won on two horses, who I was told not to win on.

ok dom ,, i never pulled any either,,,  lets just say i didnt win on any , i was told not to by connections

Mr Bird, you need to read those posts and especially from longbridge.

Ok Mr Sparrow i will but im stellaed up so now is not the best time

Il see you you know where early a m. x

Ok then, Mr Bird.