MATCHBOOK V BETFAIR

They aint got a forum to be a boring dc on.

poor wullie ,, ydc

Thing is you can go and be a boring dc on there, but as there's no forum then no one will know just quite how much of a boring dc.

let wullie go then ,, no great loss here,,

As opposed to the betfair forum where you can have a big badge

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wullie doesnt want a badge,,  he want a crackerjack pencil...

wullie has done his nuts again,,

Horse Racing: -£428.10  Total P&L:  -£428.10

Horse Racing     Showing 1 - 20 of 35 markets
Market     Start time     Settled date     Profit/loss (£)
Horse Racing / Bath 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 17:05     30-Mar-18 17:14     7.03
Horse Racing / Bath 30th Mar : 5f Hcap     30-Mar-18 17:05     30-Mar-18 17:08     -129.00
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 3 TBP     30-Mar-18 16:55     30-Mar-18 17:01     3.14
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 1m2f Hcap     30-Mar-18 16:55     30-Mar-18 17:00     -112.38
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 16:40     30-Mar-18 16:48     8.94
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 1m2f Cond Stks     30-Mar-18 16:40     30-Mar-18 16:44     -292.52
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 16:25     30-Mar-18 16:35     8.62
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 5f Cond Stks     30-Mar-18 16:25     30-Mar-18 16:32     -200.00
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 16:10     30-Mar-18 16:15     -1.22
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 1m Cond Stks     30-Mar-18 16:10     30-Mar-18 16:13     -0.40
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 15:55     30-Mar-18 16:05     4.56
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 1m Listed     30-Mar-18 15:55     30-Mar-18 16:01     -75.80
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 15:40     30-Mar-18 15:48     15.80
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 2 TBP     30-Mar-18 15:40     30-Mar-18 15:48     -2.00
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 1m4f Hcap     30-Mar-18 15:20     30-Mar-18 15:40     38.32
Horse Racing / Bath 30th Mar : 3 TBP     30-Mar-18 15:30     30-Mar-18 15:34     4.68
Horse Racing / Bath 30th Mar : 6f Cond Stks     30-Mar-18 15:30     30-Mar-18 15:32     47.90
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 15:05     30-Mar-18 15:13     7.90
Horse Racing / Ling 30th Mar : 6f Cond Stks     30-Mar-18 15:05     30-Mar-18 15:11     -17.36
Horse Racing / Newc 30th Mar : 4 TBP     30-Mar-18 14:45     30-Mar-18 14:53     -29.81
Pages: 1  2   of 2 Pages

Everyone wins on Matchbook.

Don't MB count total matched the way the 'daq do?

eg £10 matched at 9.0, BF call that £20 matched, Purple call it £90 matched?

no they dont/

@cardenden

apologies, but I think ypu're wrong - I just backed a rag on MB for £2 @ 150 and the 'total matched' jumped by £300, not the £4 it would on here.

ok mate , didnt realise they did that .

^ Cold call scammers must love you!

jm dick

bf have the ir market on racing (as the first in and possibly better api set up) but other than that its enevitable that bf will lose business with their current price metric, i hope mb adopt a flat 2% (or less!) commission when the 0% goes, the people behind them are clever and they will get this right where bf didnt, imo

Haven't looked at MB for a while. Have they improved the website at all?

its ok for placing bets pre-race, i find, bit clumsy for ir, early days still

How long has this company been trading?

I've found the answer 14 years!

The Matchbook betting exchange
About Matchbook
Matchbook started in 2004 and is licensed by the  AGCC (Alderney Gambling Control Commission). Licensing is always important when it comes to bookmakers and betting exchanges as your money is involved.


And people talking on here as if it just arrived.  After 14 years it has appeared to have achieved next to nothing.

were you expecting deep space expeditions and the discovery of new life?

I wasn't, but what about you?

Don't use them myself  but that's an interesting assumption Sparrow; if they have achieved next to nothing then assume you have you seen their customer numbers and P&L figures?

All I hear is that it is hopeless for liquidity. If it was ever going to be any good it would have happened by now. That's why most of us are all still here.

the pre race liquidity is fine, if you look

All you hear from who re liquidity? Somebody posted on here recently that liquidity wasn't much different to Betfair, albeit they are running a 0% commission promotion. Betfair's share price hasn't been heading south by accident, they appear to be cutting back on markets in various areas on the exchange and who knows what will happen in the future particularly if US companies are able to get involved in the longer term.

sparrow only recently have they really pushed their exchange through advertising, sponsorship and promotions, my only interest is the much needed competition they are providing, thats good for punters

If this is the case why has it taken 14 years to happen?

idk, but who cares? why not ask them..

A more pertinent question would be how have they managed to survive  14 years if they were doing badly?

I agree that the Betfair exchange needs some competition and if it provides this then it can only be good news for us. But after all these years I remain a little sceptical.

idk?

Aren't there NEW people in there now?

if you are sceptical about exchanges and their longevity / success you'd be more concerned that betfair is now owned by a major bookmaker surely?

One only has to look at their US open winner market.

except for the fav ($226) the most available for any selection is $124.

At the best price.

At the best price.

Elise......I have expressed my concern about Betfair being involved in bookmaking on numerous occasions on here. I fear very much for the future of exchange betting with the lack of advertising and Betfair making it extremely difficult for new subscribers to access the exchange.

they don't see it as easy to sell or understand to new users, hence the lack of promotion and the rise in ads for sportsbook

changes to the usa markets might re-ignite some interest but there's a stack of blockchain new startups in the pipeline plus some of the old usa models that have been lurking in the carribean that might also come into play in the near future

daq got bought out as well so almost all of the exchanges that were around 10 years ago have either sold out or folded and some of those had millions thrown at them in various forms

Betfair Exchange being advertised during the ODI yesterday!

they don't push it as they could or should

It's become very disappointing when you look back to those early years. Whatever the reasons the vast majority of ordinary punters prefer betting with the bookmakers. So much for progress.

i was at the races recently listening to a bunch of 20 somethings who were arguing about which was the bigger, 4/6 or 6/4, so tap tap boom is about as much as they can cope with

Thet sponsored the The Big evening meeting at Sandown the other week,the one covered by ITV.

If you google Betfair and try that link it will send you straight to the Sportsbook and you have to really persevere to get onto the exchange. This is all understandable as the profits from their bookmaking far exceed the Exchange profit.

You would have thought it would be the 20 somethings that would embrace the exchanges with their technological knowledge not someone like me in their 70s.

There is a new one opening this year with a UK licence, I expect the software to be good but God knows how they will attract enough customers to make it viable.
Google bet.me

from memory, the paddy power annual report showed something like a 28 or 29% growth on sportsbook for 2017 and about 1% for the exchange, the focus has been on the easy mug stuff and just creaming off the comms and fees

any recent activity is probably related to a world cup marketing strategy rather than a need to push the exchange to new customers

you work for easysoft shalimah lol?

Any new enterprise is doomed to failure without the support of the layers on here.

The layers would move in a flash as would nearly everyone else that make a profit on betfair
--it's the ordinary punter that all other exchanges have failed to attract.

If the layers move from here who would you be backing with?
No backers without layers.

@JML that doesn't work does it?  If "nearly everyone" that makes a profit on Betfair moves to A N Other Exchange they're missing the thing they need - all the punters who make a loss on BF and provide the money that becomes their profits?

longbridge... who do these backers bet with if the layers move?

@sparrow do you mean that:

- all the winners move to New Exchange
- all the losers find there is no-one to take their bets
- all the losers then move to New Exchange where the money is?

I suppose it might work if:

layers == winners

and the winners are organised enough and honest enough to all move and not be tempted to be the last one still taking *all* the losing bets

but I can't see it.

Didn't explain very well---the sharks would have a look but soon
realise that there is no fish and come back.

But any exchange that can attract the fish will have no trouble attracting the shrewdies from here.


How is this new company going to succeed where every other company have failed?

I can't see it either longbridge but if the layers were tempted away the backers would have to follow.

No Elise but I did have a look at a list of their clients on their website, some big names in there so I assume they know what they are doing software wise. I don't think its possible for a start up to make a go of it without seeding the markets and if they do they will need large resources and patience. Odds against to make it work but would love to see a viable alternative to the current market leaders

@JML

"But any exchange that can attract the fish will have no trouble attracting the shrewdies from here."

I think that's absolutely true.

You've only got to look at ****.Thousands of adverts in the Racing Post
and some fantastic incentives over the years but still very few fish.

At least bet.me is a better name than **** so that's a start.

0% Commision till the end of the year will instantly leave me a good few thousand better off.

trying to remember which one was seeding and went broke, sporting options i think

there used to be some huge arbs back then before the bots really took hold

i had accounts with flutter, sporting options, daq, betx, betbull, betbutler, betxc, mansion, tradesports, matchbook, betmart and a few more exchanges over the years, i'm down to just four now


had one i won't name that i had 36k in when the us govn strangled their banking and it took me 2 years to drag it out in losing bets

Liquidity is still awful, and only a handful of antepost markets for horses eg The Leger and Irish Derby. I cannot see situation changing for the better in the near future myself.

http://www.bettingmarket.com/refraichir010388.htm

I think it is great for exchanges that Matchbook have a presence in the Exchange market. Bookmaker owned Betfair and Purple are not greatly interested in expanding exchanges at the expense of traditional bookmaking.

i've been tracking it over the world cup - i'm a bit wary, it's feeling like it's 90% seeded money or it's certainly coming from just a very small number of layers

i wouldn't want a massive bank in there long term

Amouts available on Spain 5.9      BFair  more than £10K        MB less than £100
                    Brazil 6.6                      £24K                     £50


Don't know how the matched amounts are reached but I doubt it the purple method.
the numbers are far to high for it's to be that method.

Doubt if MB is as much as 5% the size of Betfair.

mb are stake x odds when calculating the matched amounts

Todays 3 o'clock matches   betfair AUS £705K   DEN £972K.

                           MB          $672K       $1.7 million.


Purple who use the same method as MB    £72K        £104K


If you take the Denmark game  Betfairs true matched amount is £486K. 

The highest price is 5.5 so if we take an average price of 3.5 we have a true matched figure of $486K.

I suspect that MBs figure will be mostly self matching.

i may be wrong, but the matchbook figure i think is for all the markets, not solely the win market (so includes h'cap, totals. etc 30 plus markets maybe?)

You could well be right.



You've only have to look at the match odds and the amount on offer can go for long
periods without changing and it's not unusual to have a gap in prices.

for what it's worth, i hope they can make it work, you never know when an alternative will be needed

So do I--anyone who's opened an account on 0% are having a great deal

0% is obviously an incentive, but I think MB will need to extend this concession for at least another 12 months to grow the business or and/or when liquidity has improved 10 folds - really dismal at present. What's their withdrawal like? Straight forward, I hope, as I do not trust Exchanges being the custodians of my money longer than one week as the ramifications could be problematic.

they've been around long enough and i can't recall complaints re taking funds out, i'm just a bit dubious about where the money in the markets is coming from

impossible123    26 Jun 18 14:40 
, as I do not trust Exchanges being the custodians of my money longer than one week as the ramifications could be problematic.





You would not trust Betfair exchange?

this may interest you guys as to betting exchange companies betting/trading/seeding there own markets

https://egr.global/intel/opinion/when-is-a-betting-exchange-no-longer-a-betting-exchange/

When is a betting exchange no longer a betting exchange?

**** MD Shane McLaughlin outlines the challenges facing peer-to-peer betting platforms in 2018



Contributor   

14 June 2018

Email Print  Share 

 

It’s 18 years now since betting exchanges first launched and it’s fair to say that while we at **** and some notable others have worked hard to challenge Betfair, their first-mover advantage delivered critical scale and a dominant market position that has largely been maintained to the present day. But after a few quiet years where exchanges seemed out of vogue, while everyone was chasing more attractive sportsbook and casino industry growth rates, there is a lot of attention coming back onto the exchange industry, and the business model appears to be evolving into something that can sustain more than just a couple of profitable operators.

The introduction of Betfair’s premium charge highlighted the undeniable truth that the smartest guys on the exchanges were winning big and paying a fraction of their winnings back to the exchanges by way of commission. The exchanges needed to compete with massive sportsbook marketing budgets to attract recreational players and keep the ecosystem moving, and someone had to fund this new player acquisition.

Most large players we’ve discussed this with get the logic of winners having to pay more to fund new player acquisition, but baulk at the 40-60% levels of premium charge set by Betfair. We work off a target number of 25% of winnings over time retained as revenue, and most customers reach this through the natural churn of wins and losses. It is also a number that seems to be acceptable to most large winning customers, but we also believe the optimal charging model is not simply about absolute winnings but the contribution the customer is making to overall exchange liquidity.

Another factor is that outside of the UK and Ireland the world has been slow to embrace and regulate for betting exchanges even where online sportsbooks and casinos are licensed. We know what we left on the table in a number of countries and it hurts that we can no longer compete for that business. Added to that, the pace of technological innovation has stalled and exchange platform technology is now relatively mature. Competition has focussed on reducing commission rates – we moved to a flat 2% rate in January this year – rather than product-driven differentiation.

Sowing seeds

A few large exchange customers have partnered at an equity level with some of the smaller exchanges in order to provide liquidity, which makes a lot of financial sense for both parties but it also represents a fundamental shift in the business model and where all sorts of difficult questions start to arise about how a betting exchange should conduct its business.

Questions like, how active should an operator be in trading on their own exchange and what information do their own traders, group companies and shareholders get to see about what the customers are doing? There is a justifiable need for an exchange to provide seed liquidity into markets to provide an acceptable product to customers. We do this at **** to the minimum extent possible, as a loss-making exercise, and we’re involved in about 6% of ****’s traded volume.

Other ‘betting exchanges’ are now making as much as two thirds of revenue from proprietary trading on their own exchange and one recently admitted publicly that they are involved in up to 40% of bets on their exchange. The conflict of interest is obvious but does it actually matter? Well, yes, if winning customers are not welcome because they are playing against the house.

Ultimately, customers now have more choice about where they do business and that’s a good thing. Exchanges should be more transparent, though, about the extent to which they participate in their own markets, the rules of engagement, and whether they provide a true peer to peer product or something else.

cheers pablo, i hadn't read that piece

the point re whether you're playing the house is one aspect to consider, the 2nd is that ring-fenced funds are a smoke screen, they are not ring-fenced in the way that bookmakers / exchanges made out 15 years ago

pablo, thanks for the info.

I'd baulk at 40% commission - this is akin to paying a high worth taxation to HMRC; 10% is acceptable, but this must be stake/s (singly or cumulatively) related. As for proprietary trading (here) it is evidently clear it is on the increase to intimidate (red herring price movement) and manipulate the markets eg large amounts on 'lay' and 'back' section. In addition, the use of bots to further increase their advantage/profit margins, all these shenanigans to frustrate genuine or recreational users, I gather.

If these sharp practises persist sooner or later genuine and recreational users will be not forthcoming but probably leaving in droves. Then proprietary trading could be competing against themselves (here and from other Exchanges), and not against genuine and/or recreational users.

I've had no issues getting funds out, takes the same length of time as BF.

behave .... you've never withdrawn money

To be able to withdraw without hassle is vital for me. I hope to play more with MB when liquidity is better on raceday (hopefully) otherwise, curtains from me; brief spell with **** but were not impressed.

If I was to open an exchange it would look as close to betfair as legally possible.

How can any exchange succeed if they charge commission on every bet including losing bets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

£100 in your account and back a loser for the whole amount,your balance is now minus £1.50.

How can anyone think that's a good idea?

the first to market scenario has killed it, the dominance they gained early is too tough for competitors to break in the short term

the only way we can see a shift now is new money (poss usa / canada) coming into play and for a while maybe on another exchange & we'll get another year or two of opportunities until the bots close it all off again (if we're lucky)

Liquidity is of utmost importance, 2ndly commission ie one would not mind paying a higher commission on a winning bet or winning consistently; a higher commission for a winning bet and vice versa with a ceiling of 10%. I think a business model structured along the lines of that of share/equity dealing brokers like in the City could work well in the long run.

No liquidity = no growth = no business

impossible123    26 Jun 18 14:40 
, as I do not trust Exchanges being the custodians of my money longer than one week as the ramifications could be problematic.





You would not trust Betfair exchange?

Not exchange-related but have you heard of the new Ascotbet? If not, it’s where Ascot are opening up pool betting in conjunction with HKJC for next year’s Royal meeting: there’s going to be be some enormous pools going on.

Story is here Johnny.


https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/hong-kong-jockey-club-totepool-launch-ascot-world-pool-for-2019-royal-meeting/

i was struggling to understand how that was set up, is it just the tote under the ascot banner ?  i thought you'd posted previously on it (or someone did) but it had a july date for launch on their webpage

just checked it's july but on track

If it aint got BOG & FPTP then I aint interested.

Any association with HKJC is almost a sure fire for success as the Chinese are prolific gamblers, and addicted to horse racing thus guaranteeing liquidity at its highest, I firmly believe. And from Royal Ascot where the world's best horses are expected to run its popularity in Hong Kong is almost a given.

sparrow    26 Jun 18 17:48 
impossible123    26 Jun 18 14:40 
, as I do not trust Exchanges being the custodians of my money longer than one week as the ramifications could be problematic.





You would not trust Betfair exchange?

'sparrow', I do not even trust the supermarkets as custodians of my money,..the bookies no chance!

But you just mentioned the exchanges with no mention of bookmakers, impossible.

Exchanges deal with betting, and any form of betting I do have reservation with, regards my money.