3 places market missing

ffs just place lay the 3rd horse

easy innit

Greg_Gory    07 Jun 18 07:40 
ffs just place lay the 3rd horse

easy innit




What are you talking about?

Good question Sparrow.

Come on, Greg, enlighten us. Please.

A vs B market will be the next one to go.

betfair put the markets up for a vs b and they put them up late as possable now a lot of markets betfair put them up

They used to have them under the horse racing market where you could access them all together.Thats gone and they will go all together soon.

Its a really mystery why other exchanges are not challenging betfair supremacy because this lot don't care about their customers.

So, tonight, rightly or wrongly, I would be betting Tennessee Wildcat (7.25 Leop) and Cimeara (7.55 Leop) to three places.
Now I can't.
Therefore betfair will lose commission on about £60 that I won't now bet.
Where do they see logic in that????
Idiots.

But what if they both won?

I am also a regular player on the 3 place market in 6 and 7 runner races,and am surprised to see this market no longer
available.I back a lot of bigger priced horses and this market is useful to me.However i also place a bet in the win market
which will be money lost to betfair now as i will be unlikely to bet in most races with 6 or 7 runners.I hope betfair reconsider this decision,but will not hold my breath.

Strange that they have retained the 2 3 AND 4 place market on 8 runner races. How does that not dilute liquidity too?

The 3 place market is also still available on the us horseracing.I saw an early race from Delaware yesterday with only 6 runners and the option of a 2 place or 3 place market with only a little over £700 matched on the 3 place market. I feel sure
most 3 place markets in the uk on these races attracted more than this.

stoped the match betting on rpgtv dogs tonight im going to betdag with some of my bets

Donc 28th Apr	18:15	win	BSP	Avg	plc	BSp PLC	Avg PLC
Eddiethebung		0	1000.00	966.31	0	13.98	66.57
Gibeno		0	1000.00	958.05	1	17.26	61.87

Maybe we won't see these types of place BSP being returned from now on.

re US racing I think betfair tries to follow the betting terms available in the country of the race - in the US this is win, place and show ie win, two places, three places.

And another thing, why can't the US TBPs go in play?

So a race declared with 8 runners that has one non runner (today's Wolverhampton 16.50 for example) still has 2 additional place markets but a 7 runner race elsewhere has none!

Ridiculous.

I have just rung in to complain and I trust all other posters have done the same.

Update email from betfair who simply do not understand what we are talking about despite me spelling it out to them over the phone.



Thanks for getting in touch.

I am contacting you in relation to the 3 place markets on our site.

I had a look into this for you xxxx and even though there isn't a specific market called 3 place market, this can usually still be found in the place market.

Below is an example of the markets being offered on one of the Newmarket races tomorrow.



As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out. In this case this market is paying out at 3 places, as can be seen below.






I do apologise for any inconveniences that this may have caused you.

Thanks,

Julian

Betfair Customer Service Management

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I had a look into this for you xxxx

giving you kisses a bit familiar imo

Indeed mouse. I shall ring again in the morning and insist they speak to someone who is actively involved in the market listings.

Trust you to seize on that, dave.

"As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out."

One failure to understand what the emailer has actually asked, one failure to understand the fundamental issue, and three grammatical errors, all neatly packaged into one almost incomprehensible sentence.

Welcome to the world of the 21st century millennial.

you done well bettinghelp, i have read it twice now and its still not making an ounce of sense. !   

The fool was talking to me about how to negotiate a market I have been using for the past 15 years or more.

The laughable response to sparrow's query is sadly typical of Betfair's customer services these days, they seem to be unable to grasp even the simplest issue.

I've got in touch with someone more senior there but am still awaiting a response....

The complete inanity of the CS response is so typical. I would like to add my support for the return of some of the place markets but find dealing with Betfair CS quite depressing. For weeks I (and others )
were on to them about the 'wrong headers' issue and their lack of an effective response really go to me. I have reduced my BF turnover by some 70 %. I want to enjoy my gambling in my retirement  but find
steering clear of BF CS is good for my sanity !

Try tweeting @BetfairRacing and @Betfair Exchange

If you tweet them you'll just get another birdbrain.

Just called them again and they said someone from the "trading team" would contact me.

ttt

I want to bet a long priced horse to three places in the 7 runner 6.40 Southwell tonight but can't so that's another race they wont be getting my money invested in. Yet they offer 5 places on the 16 runner event at 7.10.
To make it even more stupid, they offer 4 places on the 7.00 Roscommon, which was due to have just eight runners and now has only seven.
I don't know how their logic works but I doubt they do either!

I have given up with trying to explain this to them. The present staff seem to have very little knowledge of how the exchange operates. Just another 2 bob bookmaker these days.

"As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out."


F**k me!!!

Precisely, Dirkdiggler.
I rest my case

the purple one appears to have these markets....do they give you live pictures from all courses that you may have bet at?

I have a purple account but haven't used it for so long that i'm not even sure if i can remember/find my password!

if you havent used it for ages madhatter  - you need to reopen an a/c

if you havent used it for ages madhatter  - you need to reopen an a/c


Yep, I had to.

Found login name and password and done!
Didn't need to start a new one, just replenish my one

But bet B D Mottes there to 2 places on Betfair 'cos hadn't got Purple organised in time so it worked out better odds (although I would have bet more money if the three place market still existed)...swings and roundabouts.
The 6.40 horse is Foundation Man should anyone really care.
Off to purple one to bet that one

But as someone said earlier, any liquidity at all is still money in betfair's coffers so why stop them (unless it costs more in someones time to set them up than the commission they make from it)

any liquidity at all is still money in betfair's coffers so why stop them

if betfair made more from commission with the 3TBP+ markets than without them, they would have kept them that's for sure . 

with more than 1 place betting market offering in operation , they dilute eachother, which in turn puts people off betting/trading in them as there can be big gaps in the prices , so poor value for betting, so no one wins long term.

And herein is the purple problem. Just £1,307 bet in the 3 place market and my bet was (fortunately as it turned out) unmatched.
We had a hot fav that was always likely to be placed so, had I bet the two place market on betfair, then in my mind i am betting Foundation Man to beat all the other five runners i.e. no leeway whatsoever, which is what you get when the extra place market is available.
Shame there is no-one at betfair that would understand a word of what i've written here.
I despair of them.

Still, now I can have a proper bet on Canardier to finish first four at 1.30 in 7.00 Rosc.

29.55% interest in 5 mins....you don't get that in abank!

Chantecler, first five @ 2.52

madhatter

And herein is the purple problem

Although it may be BF's problem one day if they are driving people away (admittedly a small number at the moment) to find markets which have been removed from here. May have a knock on effect of raising purple's liquidity to the point where some people may accept reduced odds if the gap is seen to be closing etc

Although a bank is much better than that result!

LHF,
Why do you think it is that purple haven't seemingly made inroads into betfairs market share?
I struggle to see why they dont grow. If Ladbrokes really wanted an exchange then you'd think they would do more to promote it to the betting public.
I still think betfairs site is more easy to follow and easier on the eye but of course that is also because that is the one we are used to navigating every day.

The place markets have suffered some dilution but Betfair have removed the wrong extra market and it should have been the extra 2 place market. Unfortunately when contacting Betfair you are unable to speak to the people who understand the situation.

I don't think they have made inroads MH, just saying that BF are doing themselves no favours in encouraging people to consider other providers.

Neither betfair or Ladbrokes are going to promote their exchanges when they make far more profit on the bookmaking side. Why on earth would they?

Agreed. But you'd think that, with all their strength and all that investment in purchasing their own exchange, Ladbrokes would be trying very hard to get the gamblers onto purple.
But I see no evidence of that being the case.

That was agreed with LHF.
Sparrow - one assumes Laddies bought purple to compete with betfair, unwise why waste 30 million euros on something you dont push forward with.

Both - but what if something none of us would consider happening happened eg another exchange entering and competing with the big 2?

...otherwise...

https://egr.global/intel/insight/disrupting-the-status-quo-is-betfairs-excha...

smarkets 10%, matchbook 5%, purple 5%, betfair most of the rest.
That tells me purple havent grown in terms of market share for the last 5 years

I would have thought young people would have taken to the exchanges with them being more used to handling the technology. But it seems they are little different to their parents and grandparents when it comes to preferring bookmakers to the exchanges.

i am pushing 60 and haven't had a bet with a bookie since i joined betfair in Jan 2003

I can give you 11 years madhatter and I don't bet with bookmakers either. Crazy when you think about it as we are supposed to be the "old stick in the muds"

A classic example is the old traditional bookmaker each way bet where you have to have equal stakes rather than say 25% win and 75% place.

Agreed Sparrow. I tend bet one, sometimes two or occasionally three horses place only and find having a variety of place markets is often very helpful for this.

I have just received the following email from Betfair.


Thanks for getting in touch.

After checking with our Exchange team, we can confirm that due to a business decision we have removed certain extra place markets from our Exchange. This is part of the ongoing rationalisation project, which essentially seeks to focus liquidity on our markets thus ensuring an optimal betting customer experience overall. As of Monday 4th June the below changes have come into effect.

• No 3TBP markets for GB/IRE races with 7 runners or less
• No place market (TBP) at all for GB/IRE races with 3 runners

I have attached a handy tab;le which clarified which markets are going to remain and which will be removed for your clarification.

I have also passed on your feedback from our end regarding the change in question.

Apologies if this is not the answer you wished to hear.

Should you still wish a callback regarding the above kindly reply with a suitable time frame for the next 72hours so that we can get that set up for you.

Thanks,

Extremely irritating, 7 runners races now become a no-bet for me, less money for me and less commission for betfair :/

we can confirm that due to a business decision we have removed certain extra place markets from our Exchange. This is part of the ongoing rationalisation project, which essentially seeks to focus liquidity on our markets thus ensuring an optimal betting customer experience overall

great betfair , now try taking a look at re-structuring the Premium Charge to see if you can improve liquidity in the horse racing markets

cheers

People need to call betfair and complain as they clearly believe there is no demand from punters for these markets

betfair were puting the prices up for 3 places in 5 6 7 runners and did there money

maddogman..........Are you talking about the Betfair bots?

If they were liquid markets I doubt that they would be axed.

imo the place markets should be restricted to the standard place terms and one less than standard terms.

same here jetlonestar - Ive spent alot of races this week out in the garden water the flowers.

Dave,  they have withdrawn the wrong extra market as it should have been the extra 2 place market.
Many of us used the extra 3 place markets even if you didn't.

The books will often offer an extra place in big races to attract more custom, while betfair exchange seem to be of the opinion that offering one place less than the normal terms is more appealing. Which is right?

Dave thinks one less place is better.

I too have left the 5 6 7 runner races alone since the introduction of this.Three 7 runner races at uttoxeter tonight, again
unless fancy something strongly at the front of the market I will leave the race alone.
Betfair talk about improving liquidity in other markets on these races,but I am certainly not going to start betting in the 2
place market in these races.If anything it will cost them money in the win market as when having a bet in a 5 6 or 7runner
race I would place a smaller bet in the win market as well, just in case. I think others must do the same,wonder if betfair
have considered this.

I would like to see the figures differential between extra 2 place and extra 3 place markets Betfair presumably based this decision on.

I only ever play the standard place market, so I really would rather that was the only one tbh.

Dave,  as long as you're satisfied that's all that matters then.

p2p

I only play the place markets so if Betfair could remove the win markets and send more liquidity my way that would be great, ta

Get rid of all the Irish please.

Except group 1s

Indeed Jetlonestar, what a good idea.

It will certainly make no difference just talking about it on here but we should all let them know our feelings on this decision.

Obscene amount of 6/7 runner races over the weekend, very upsetting - would easily turnover 2k+ if the 3TBP markets were still there...yes im extremely bitter

I got this reponse from the account manager this morning after I asked for an update on the situation.

This is still ongoing. The issue my team have is we are defending our customers who are the ones who benefit most from the markets. Exchange ops argue that the overall exchange customer proposition is more important long term than short term revenue.



As you know I am not convinced that this justifies removing markets which clearly we will be getting revenue from and Premium customers such as yourself will be earning from, especially when racing is in decline.



I need to be able to look at market data on this because I think that will paint the clearest picture on the impact. The anecdotal evidence we have definitely has been heard. I am going to have this data collated now we have a good few weeks since the change.



Exchange ops have removed markets from lots of sports but this is the first time they have come across issues but clearly, the way this was done with little warning to us and therefore our customers is not acceptable so will be addressed in future.



It is very frustrating from my point of view.

As you know I am not convinced that this justifies removing markets which clearly we will be getting revenue from and Premium customers such as yourself will be earning from, especially when racing is in decline.

at least they acknowledge that racing is in decline .

@pablo "at least they acknowledge that racing is in decline"

That's an industry-wide truism isn't it?

yes

So they've figured out it's in decline. Now all they need is a committee to sit down for a couple of years and try to work out why.

longbridge , i dont have facts or figures ( levy raised etc ) for the industry as a whole, but i think horse racing markets on here are declining

If a market is particularly profitable for a subset of customers, it must be very bad for other customers.  In a very liquid market (minimum spread) anyone putting a bet up is providing a service to other customers, someone putting up bets with a wide spread isn't.

That excuse doesn't wash in this case as the 3 TBPs were more liquid than the 2 TBPs which are still there.

Precisely mouse. We had the very same argument the other day.

dave1357    14 Jun 18 15:21 
I only ever play the standard place market, so I really would rather that was the only one tbh.

I didn't get that argument of dave1357.  It's like saying "I only ever smoke B&H, so I'd rather tobacconists didn't stock Silk Cut"

It's nothing like saying that.  If the standard place market is the only market, it's clearly better for me.