Venitia Williams' letter to owners a disgrace

What Deutsch committed was a "misdemeanour".

Incorrect Art, there is no such thing as a "misdemeanour" under UK law.

Art - I thought the distinction between a felony and a misdemeanor was abolished many years ago in the UK????

I'd not make further comments on this matter until the outcome of Deutsch's leave to appeal against the custodial sentence is known.

Correct Blackbarn

Interesting thought, TheFear.

The chances of my ending up inside are remote, but I like to think that I would put my literary skills to good use in the service of my fellow inmates should such an eventuality ever occur.

good man

impossible123 says - "I'd not make further comments on this matter until the outcome of Deutsch's leave to appeal against the custodial sentence is known"

Why? It didn't stop you spouting fluent bo llocks about the case just 20 minutes ago.

Criminal Law Act 1967
1967 CHAPTER 58
An Act to amend the law of England and Wales by abolishing the division of crimes into felonies and misdemeanours and to amend and simplify the law in respect of matters arising from or related to that division or the abolition of it; to do away (within or without England and Wales) with certain obsolete crimes together with the torts of maintenance and champerty; and for purposes connected therewith.

[21st July 1967]

Part I
Felony and Misdemeanour
Annotations: Help about Annotation
Extent Information

E1
Subject to s. 11(2)-(4) this Part shall not extend to Scotland or Northern Ireland see s. 11(1)

1 Abolition of distinction between felony and misdemeanour.
(1)All distinctions between felony and misdemeanour are hereby abolished.
1 Abolition of distinction between felony and misdemeanour.
(1)All distinctions between felony and misdemeanour are hereby abolished.
(2)Subject to the provisions of this Act, on all matters on which a distinction has previously been made between felony and misdemeanour, including mode of trial, the law and practice in relation to all offences cognisable under the law of England and Wales (including piracy) shall be the law and practice applicable at the commencement of this Act in relation to misdemeanour.

Literary skills , Ffs he's Andy Dufrene

Art Decko    19 May 18 19:50 
What Deutsch committed was a "misdemeanour".

Would you still be as sympathetic if he'd mowed down one of your family?

Willie - not sure anyone on here is being "sympathetic" to Deutsch.  Not even sure the Williams letter is particularly sympathetic - she is not certainly not defending him.

It is true that the felony/misdemeanour dichotomy was "officially" abolished in England and Wales.Although not in Scotland and, and the distinction still applies in the US.

Nonetheless, it is still a valid distinction to make, regardless of the judicial location, in order to differentiate between the gravity of  a carefully premeditated crime (ala Piggott) and a spur-of-the moment piece of recklessness ( ala Deutsch)

“It’s sad, it’s very sad,” said Twiston-Davies. “He’s a lovely lad and I think they’ve been very hard on him. We all make the odd mistake, but there we are.

TD should also be castigated for referring to this issue as a 'mistake'. If i type a word incorrectly in a post, that's a mistake. What CD did, can in no way be mentioned as a mistake, it was a reckless and criminal action, end of !

Agreed. "odd mistake" is an unfortunate turn of phrase given what he did.

I agree that "odd mistake" was an unfortunate choice of phrase.

"fellow felon" was equally unfortunate IMO

Was it Kieren Felon or Kieren misdemeanour?

Art, was it spur of the moment getting behind the wheel when he knew how much he had drunk?

Decko - Except that

"odd mistake" drastically underestimates what Deutsch did.

"fellow felon" compares his offence with that of Piggott.  You were suggesting, admittedly with a flawed view of the law, that Deutsch's offence was less serious than that of Piggott.

About as spur of the moment as Piggot not paying tax for x amount of years........

decko,if he'd collided with another car and someone was killed or badly injured would you still be of the same opinion?
yes piggott committed a crime but no ones life was ever going to be put in danger.

misdemeanour
mɪsdɪˈmiːnə/Submit
noun
1.
a minor wrongdoing.

decko ffs give ya head a wobble.

Horse trainer admits 110mph drive
Venetia Williams
Venetia Williams was caught speeding near Evesham
National Hunt trainer Venetia Williams has pleaded guilty to driving at 110mph in Worcestershire.
Ms Williams, who trains about 70 horses at her base in How Caple, near Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, was caught on the Evesham bypass on 9 September.

She admitted breaking the 70mph speed limit, saying she had been rushing back to tend to a sick horse.

Worcester magistrates banned her from driving for 42 days and fined her £500. She was also ordered to pay £35 costs.
The court heard she was spotted when she overtook an unmarked police car on the A46 at about 85mph.

The officers then followed her as she increased her speed to between 108mph and 110mph.

They also said she drove closely behind a Mazda, apparently trying to make it pull over out of her way.

Miss Williams' solicitor Mark Haslam said she was racing back to her yard to look after a horse, Luna, who had the potentially fatal colic.

He said her head lad, who was the only other person with a key to the medicine cabinet, was off and as it was a Sunday it was going to take some time to get a vet.

Mr Haslam told the court she needed a car to run her business and looked after her elderly father, who has Parkinson's Disease and lives five miles from her home.

Outside court, Ms Williams said: "Colic is potentially a very dangerous situation and it was vital that I got back to help the horse and fortunately the horse survived."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7091466.stm

95% of motorists have prob driven over 100mph.

I knew she was not the posh, morally high standard, totty she appears to some

I knew she had been done for speeding but v lucky girl to only get 42 days for 110!

Correct willie, twice in Sweden and the same in Germany, all resulting in fines.

i know someone that got a year ban for 139mph on the m'way

Willie Shafter demands justice?

I knew she was not the posh, morally high standard, totty she appears to some

How dare you, sir. I demand satisfaction . A lady's honour is at stake. Pistols or swords, your choice.

Getting back to Deutsch, the two things I want to emphasise is that [A] he wasn't "drunk" and he didn't kill or hurt anybody.

You can say "well he [b]could have killed somebody" all you like, but the fact remains that he didn't. Hypothetical scenarios have no place in rational analysis.

Neither did he damage any property or cause physical harm to any living creature as a result of his escapade, and my submission is that this is because he was sober and demonstrated exemplary driving skills in a very stressful situation.

You must be his dad

art

you must be on the wind up

He wasn't "drunk" but he "pleaded guilty to dangerous driving while over the legal alcohol limit and escaping from police custody".  Thanks for the clarification, Decko.

How dare you, sir. I demand satisfaction . A lady's honour is at stake. Pistols or swords, your choice.

How common, i insist we use sharpened Reindeer antlers.

ok without seeming to be controversial,i thought the sentence harsh.

Getting back to Deutsch, the two things I want to emphasise is that [A] he wasn't "drunk" and he didn't kill or hurt anybody.

Yes he was drunk - he was over the drink drive limit and is classed as intoxicated behind the wheel. His flee attempt and driving the wrong side of roads and around roundabouts is testimony to that. He also stunk of booze.


You can say "well he [b]could have killed somebody" all you like, but the fact remains that he didn't. Hypothetical scenarios have no place in rational analysis.

More complete bollox from your feeble attempts at justifying a heinous crime. If I pointed a loaded gun and shot at you but missed; would you be happy if the coppers reported that they couldn't prosecute me for attempted murder as the fact remains that he didn't murder you.

i thought i typed it well

slightly over the limit and panicked.drunk drivers dont get locked up when twice,three or even four times the limit.

forum kangaroo court again,holier than though.

I have come to the conclusion that Art is just a koont

"He also stunk of booze".

And just where3 is your source for that allegation ?

chavman - have you read anything about the case?   The sentence had somewhat less to do with his intoxication, than his conduct behind the wheel having escaped potential arrest. 114mph, wrong way round a roundabout, wrong side of the road, 5 mile car chase ending with a stinger to stop him, innocent parties in the vehicle.

Not sure anyone on here is making any judgement over and above that reached by the court.

the breathalyser measured his alcohol level to be slightly over the limit

youve now got the forum attempting to be judge and jury on conjecture of hard fact of the breathalyser.top it all they wanna pass judgement on the punishment their skewed morals deem fair.

you couldnt make it up

hands up i didnt read that bit.

still harsh though.

You certainly couldn't, chavman.

The policeman said he stank of booze as he was going to give him a verbal warning for speeding!

Unfortunately, rather than face up to his actions and accept the consequences he decided to endager the lives of his passengers (who were screaming at him to stop), the policeman (whose arm was in the vehicle) and innocent members of the public using the public roads.

When you are driving in the dark with no headlights, reaching speeds of 114mph and driving on the wrong side of the road and round a roundabout then you are playing russian roulette with innocent peoples lives simply because you aren't man enough to face the consequences of your actions.

So please stop trying to downplay this as some form of high jinx; as you are defending the indefensible.

to say that 10 months in harsh is just pure ballox

it does seem reckless.

the wife was visitng her son in pentonville today,so i am aware of the pitfalls of recklesss behaviour

Art been playing you for nearly four hours lads

must of meant Mark Lester  - Oliver

If only that were the case, Cork.  You can be dim sometimes, for an intelligent and very well informed chap.   Read his last three or four posts on this for guidance.

There is one aspect of this case which I am going to bring up again, because it seemed iffy to me right from the git-go.

Why did the cop pull the car over in the first place ?

The second-hand (or more like fifth hand) info in the tabloids says that the cop "wanted to warn him about his speed". I would dearly love to know the exact circs of this. Was the cop following him, and therefore knew that Deutsch was speeding ? And if so, how far over the speed limit was he traveling ? Or did he do some kind of radar gun check ? Extremely unlikely IMO. And why didn't he issue a speeding ticket there and then ? Or even subsequently, added to the other charges.

Nope ... it was an opportunistic borderline-legal pull over ... that was what so frustrated Deutsch IMO.

I stand by my word blackbarn, has form for it and you are all performing exactly how he wants, hence the post above, you need to relax and stand back and you will see he is taking the rise out of you because you are biting, but then I'm dim so dont't take my word, feel free to keep fueling it up for Art to enjoy

Don't be such a **** Art. He was pulled over as he was speeding. Copper smelt his boozy breath and he he failed a roadside test. Then he fled and endagered lives.

Please stop trying to create an excuse for his behaviousr where none exists. I would like to know what your opinion of him would have been if he ploughed into one of your loved ones. Would you blame he policeman (for doing his job and keeping drink drivers off the roads) then?

declan is taking the pee

A great haul on here to go with the catch he got on the other thread Charlie Deutsche gets 10 months, wise up guys.

Got any winners for tomorrow deckers?

There is an irony in laymen like Struthers and Twiston-Davies criticizing the sentence (and by implication the criminal justice system and the judge). They are professionals in an industry that struggles to accept criticism from anybody perceived to be an outsider.

The desire of his friends and colleagues to defend and support Deutsch is understandable but that does n't necessarily have to extend to questioning the severity of his punishment.I'm not sure what purpose is served by publishing the letter Venetia Williams sent to her owners (other than allowing the Racing Post to continue to generate column inches and social media traffic from this story).

I don't think the sentence was harsh but he is only 21 and deserves a shot at redemption - once he has served his time.

tyres and stones seems the forum concencus

he was young and reckless,why put him into a situation with criminals a lot more sophisticated than himself

"tyres and stones seems the forum concencus"

Aided with pitchforks and lengths of stout hempen rope ...

"Got any winners for tomorrow deckers?"

and that was what a judge said to me at crown when i was within an inch of a stretch for a lot worse than what he did.

ive never been in trouble since.

Got any winners for tomorrow deckers?

It just so happens that a very good contact in Middleham has advised me to have a decent bet on DESERT LANTERN tomorrow. I don't back debutants so it won't be carrying any of my money, but ....

FFS chav h committed a criminal act. An extremely dangerous act. By the law of the land he got (and absolutely deserved) jail.

We can' have drunk racers with no regard for public safety walking free. What sort of message would that send out?

Sorry, mouse , I meant to say that I had received encouraging advice for  DESERT LANTERN tomorrow but I never back debutants.

no previous should have counted as merit for him,first offence,panic,livelihood etc,etc.

bit late to sack the brief though

How many times does it have to be reiterated that Deutsch wasn't "drunk" ?

I don't do debutantes either but might put it on the pretend thread tomorrow, tar.

in the greater scheme of things do you think it warranted custodial willie

joyriders/twocers/drunk drivers arent getting custodial

2/3 year bender with all the trimmings woulda done rightly

ok a 'hypothetical' scenario...

whilst going the wrong way round the roundabout, 'if he hit a car head on and killed people' how many on here would say life would be a fair sentence?

im going 97.8%.

Art Decko    19 May 18 23:04 
How many times does it have to be reiterated that Deutsch wasn't "drunk" ?

you dont have to be rolling around ydc..its been proven without doubt that small intakes of alcohol impairs your driving ability..are you really this naive?

the point isnt in hypothesis,it is what actually happened.

not what could have happened,what did actually happen

Funny thread with Art and Chav.

chavman    19 May 18 23:11 
in the greater scheme of things do you think it warranted custodial willie

I certainly aint gona claim ive been an honest law abiding citizen becos i havent,but,ive got respect for the police,always have,without them the country would be lawless,i dont like drink drivers never have and always thought the law should be tougher on them,1st time caught 5yr ban,2nd automatic jail,sentence depending on circumstances.For deutsch to drive over the limit was reckless itself.to then jump back in his car to create a police chase that oh so easily 'could' have resulted in serious injury to both people in his car and other motorists is simply indefensible,i'd say 10mths is fair bearing in mind he'll only serve 5.

for the firearm offence did they sentence you on the pretext you were seconds away from using it,or the criminal act of having it

One of the problems here is that there is a total lack of relevant information about the details of what actually happened.

I have already highlighted the iffiness of the validity of the stop in the first place.

The whole "cop smashing window and getting arm trapped while dropping radio" is another total mystery. No details whatsoever  ... did the cop get dragged hundreds of yards along the carriageway, Hollywood style, or what ? We don't know.

But for me, at this moment in time, the most disturbing aspect of the whole issue is that there have  been no verified first hand reports or interviews with the other occupants of the car. Why is this ? What are the cops afraid of? Have the other occupants been instructed to say nothing ?

ya see willie what the public construe and what is arguable lawfully is a massive divide

for the firearm offence did they sentence you on the pretext you were seconds away from using it,or the criminal act of having it

You realise one of the main reasons he got sentenced to police custody is for escaping police custody?

*custody

i was caught with a firearm in the days when it wasnt such a big deal,the law re firearms has been altered radically over the last 10yrs,its now a 5yr sentence for being in possession of a firearm or ammunition,i was prosecuted having having a firearm without a certificate,it was found in a garage hidden away,if i was caught with it in my waistband on the high st then thats a different matter.

\do yo wear a sombrero with the waistband bandido

what most dont realise re this is..precedents have to be set.
if deutsch had been let off with a fine for eg..doesnt that then give every drink drive the opportunity to think,'oh hang on,i mays well try to escape from the police in my car as if i do get caught i'll only get a fine'..it was very stupid and without a doubt reckless,no complaints.

the zorro of north shields

ya killing me now

do yo wear a sombrero with the waistband bandido

the last 2 words dont go together.

you were asking for a serious answer..now your taking the pi$$.

you always were a tatie.

and not sure if you're aware..i had a firearm,not a sword.

fcuk me you an expert on the lingo now

ok muchos geordios

and ive moved,no longer live in north shields.

i'll reiterate.. a 'hypothetical' scenario...

whilst going the wrong way round the roundabout, 'if he hit a car head on and killed people' how many on here would say life would be a fair sentence?

im going 97.8%.

10-4...does any **** up there take you seriously

ok ill go 95%

have you got your gimp mask on?

satsuma in mouth ,tights on head...struggling for breath

if i die i love you

heres hoping.

wouldnt recommend..oranges for eating and tights on the head for bank jobs

banana?