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From a photo last friday
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here you go
https://www.britishhorseracing.com/press_releases/oversight-photo-finish-calls-following-corrected-result-kempton/
https://www.britishhorseracing.com/press_releases/oversight-photo-finish-calls-following-corrected-result-kempton/
It just beggars belief that they called the race wrong. All the untold tens of thousands of pounds on the 10/11 favourite Oregon Gift down the swanny when it was a winner. Absolutely scandalous.
Scandalous is indeed the correct word. Betfair should refund anyone who lost out
I'm always on the wrong side of these decisions. I rushed to check my activity on the race once I saw this thread.
Fortunately for me, I was down the pub, which is where most punters should be on a Friday night.
Fortunately for me, I was down the pub, which is where most punters should be on a Friday night.
looking at the high res picture , i am guessing the far side won it . is that correct ?
It's clear enough on the bha site so how did the judge get it wrong with his enhanced pictures
Was it not raised or questioned on here by anyone at the time...?
has the forum gotta scrutinize every photo finish cos these idiots are incompetent,they may as well not be there.
they had one job to do and fcuked that up
they had one job to do and fcuked that up
someone should get the bullet,theyd soon sharpen their act up then
I don't know the horses numbers or colours so I will make an unbiased call on that photograph as I haven't seen it, to me, 1 has clearly won with 8 second
It's a ridiculous state of affairs. I have long argued that this trend for judges to call the result within seconds needs to stop. They should be made to take at least 60 seconds to ensure they have not made a mistake and to allow punters to actually have a bet on the photo market.
he's right on jockey and hind qtrs position, he just forgot to look at the noses
Why no mention of the name of the judge in the BHA statement? Does it not matter or is it a secret? For the record it was Felix Wheeler and not his first error of this kind. Millions of pounds at stake and a continuing slapdash approach from the governing body of the sport.
Laughable in this day and age with all the technology and Mr. Wheeler sent to Specsavers by the BHA 
Fluffy Wheeler's obviously more popular than poor old Smudger who was sent to Siberia never to be seen again
Tight photo in the first at Dundalk just now called within seconds and the market not even opened.
remember thinking it looked the winner at the time, backed it at 6/4 in the photo, the original winner was finishing like a rocket but thought crowley hung on
Cost me £175.21.
I'd laid Bird For Life at 1.63 in the photo, because the freeze frame on RUK looked exactly the same as the official photo - I mean, you could see why at first glance someone might assume Oregon Gift's nose somehow ended at the noseband and reach the wrong conclusion, hence the odds being wrong. But look a little more closely, i.e. for about 2 seconds, and you could see that Bird For Life had been beaten.
It never occurred to me that the judge would be so lazy and so thick that he too would not be prepared to spend 2 seconds doing his job to get the correct answer.
I'd laid Bird For Life at 1.63 in the photo, because the freeze frame on RUK looked exactly the same as the official photo - I mean, you could see why at first glance someone might assume Oregon Gift's nose somehow ended at the noseband and reach the wrong conclusion, hence the odds being wrong. But look a little more closely, i.e. for about 2 seconds, and you could see that Bird For Life had been beaten.
It never occurred to me that the judge would be so lazy and so thick that he too would not be prepared to spend 2 seconds doing his job to get the correct answer.
What is, "Clear," about it?
Blowing up this image - there is a very strong case that Oregon Trail (far side) Nose is NOT touching the White line, EITHER.
In other words - Where the White Line is - NEITHER horse's Nose are touching it ... and it is a absolute DEAD-HEAT by any standard.
https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2018_21720_0.jpg
Blowing up this image - there is a very strong case that Oregon Trail (far side) Nose is NOT touching the White line, EITHER.
In other words - Where the White Line is - NEITHER horse's Nose are touching it ... and it is a absolute DEAD-HEAT by any standard.
https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2018_21720_0.jpg
thanks jamesdean - I was staggered on the night and it cost me £300. I can understand why bookmakers can't reverse the result but no reason why the exchange cannot do so.
I agree onlooker, the resolution of that print is not good enough to make a definitive verdict either way imo
well a good reason is how long do you wait for a reverse?
Totally agree with JAck BAuer 24's comment above that a minimum 60 seconds must elapse before a photo is declared giving the judge more time and betting on the finish to open.
Mar 28, 2018 -- 5:44PM, bilbobaggins wrote:
thanks jamesdean - I was staggered on the night and it cost me £300. I can understand why bookmakers can't reverse the result but no reason why the exchange cannot do so.
official result at the point the weighed in signal is given is final for betting purposes
these are the rules of racing
Onlooker: the black blob above the tip of the nose of the horse on the near side is part of the nose of the horse on the far side. It's clearly touching the white line.
Have a look at the nose of the horse on the near side - there's a black shadow underneath its nostril. The black blob above its nose is the same black shadow under the actual winner's nostril.
Have a look at the nose of the horse on the near side - there's a black shadow underneath its nostril. The black blob above its nose is the same black shadow under the actual winner's nostril.
^ I am ignoring the Black shadow/imagery ALL around Bird Of Life - BOTH ABOVE and below.
Bring THIS IMAGE up - from the BHA site - where you can also click on ENLARGE.
https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2018_21720_0.jpg
Oregon Trails (far side) Nose is ALSO is, most definitely, ALSO short of the line, for me.
Bring THIS IMAGE up - from the BHA site - where you can also click on ENLARGE.
https://media.britishhorseracing.com/images/photofinish/hireswatermark/2018_21720_0.jpg
Oregon Trails (far side) Nose is ALSO is, most definitely, ALSO short of the line, for me.
Looks like the one on the far side has won on that photo. You can bet they would not have reversed the result unless they were totally sure it was wrong, probably why they give themselves a few days to be doubly sure, they couldn't even change to a dead heat, it was that poor an effort from the judge in the first place.
onlooker, its an optical illusion .
if you try and see the far side horses nostril , there clearly is NO gap between it and the white line
if you try and see the far side horses nostril , there clearly is NO gap between it and the white line
That's the picture I was looking at too, onlooker.
How can you ignore the black shadows? They're part of the horses' heads, and are inevitably going to appear when you have floodlighting above flared nostrils.
How can you ignore the black shadows? They're part of the horses' heads, and are inevitably going to appear when you have floodlighting above flared nostrils.
How can a SHADOW be, "PART of a horse's head" ? ...
That statement simply does not make sense.
I am - correctly, surely, - IGNORING the Shadows, as BEING, 'part of Bird Of Life's head' -
- and, consequently, NOT claiming that Bird Of Life's Nose is touching the White line ...
Because it is NOT.
But, I still also feel that NEITHER is Oregon Trail's Nose touching the White Line, EITHER.
The more I look, the more I feel that you can see some POLYTRACK, between the White Line and Oregon Trail's nose.
Either that - or Oregon Trail's nose is a different colour to the rest of it's head.
Each to their own, however - and the BHA will have, presumably, had it enlarged even more we can access.
That statement simply does not make sense.
I am - correctly, surely, - IGNORING the Shadows, as BEING, 'part of Bird Of Life's head' -
- and, consequently, NOT claiming that Bird Of Life's Nose is touching the White line ...
Because it is NOT.
But, I still also feel that NEITHER is Oregon Trail's Nose touching the White Line, EITHER.
The more I look, the more I feel that you can see some POLYTRACK, between the White Line and Oregon Trail's nose.
Either that - or Oregon Trail's nose is a different colour to the rest of it's head.
Each to their own, however - and the BHA will have, presumably, had it enlarged even more we can access.
Is your name Felix by any chance?
onlooker, can you see the horses nostril on the far side ?
I find myself with onlooker here..it's pretty impossible to separate them on that photo, it doesn't help that the image is very grainy
and has a whole lot of brown colour throughout.
The brain apparently starts filling in things it thinks should be there, like when you see images looking at clouds or leaves, etc
If someone had a computer program to separate the brown of the track from the colour of the horses, etc, then it should be clearer.
At times I look and it appears the #1 far side horse has got up to win by a flared nostril, but when I look again I don't see it the
same and the flared nostril has disappeared thus looking like a dead-heat, or even favouring the nearside horse.
Some commentators on here are fairly confident they are seeing #1's nostril all the way to the line, but I am not so sure.
and has a whole lot of brown colour throughout.
The brain apparently starts filling in things it thinks should be there, like when you see images looking at clouds or leaves, etc
If someone had a computer program to separate the brown of the track from the colour of the horses, etc, then it should be clearer.
At times I look and it appears the #1 far side horse has got up to win by a flared nostril, but when I look again I don't see it the
same and the flared nostril has disappeared thus looking like a dead-heat, or even favouring the nearside horse.
Some commentators on here are fairly confident they are seeing #1's nostril all the way to the line, but I am not so sure.
screaming - leaving aside your jokey jibe 
Can you CLARIFY what you mean by ...
screaming from beneaththewaves 28 Mar 18 18:07
How can you ignore the black shadows? They're part of the horses' heads,
----------
Perhaps we should be talking Grammar, and sentence construction, here - and not the Photo.
Have you missed out the words - APPEAR to be -"part of the horses' heads" ...?
Because, otherwise, your claim is a physical impossibility
Can you CLARIFY what you mean by ...
screaming from beneaththewaves 28 Mar 18 18:07
How can you ignore the black shadows? They're part of the horses' heads,
----------
Perhaps we should be talking Grammar, and sentence construction, here - and not the Photo.
Have you missed out the words - APPEAR to be -"part of the horses' heads" ...?
Because, otherwise, your claim is a physical impossibility
Sure. They're the shadows under the near-side nostril of each horse. The lights are shining from high above, the nostrils are flared, and they create shadows underneath the nostrils, which are parts of the horses' heads.
Paddy power paying on the amended result, so at least Burkey will be happy
The circular white ring on the bridle of Oregon Gift (if viewed leaving the paddock on Sporting Life results video) is 6 or 7 inches from the end of its mouth. On the photo finish the same white circle is about half that distance from the white line. I backed the loser in the photo.
screaming -
To be kind - the nostrils are, of course, part of the horse's head - quite obviously.
However - the way that you have posted - and AGAIN, in your explanation - STILL intimates that the, "SHADOWS are part of the horses' heads" - which simply cannot be so for adjudicating purposes.
By that 'measure' - Where the Sun to be directly behind horses, in a race - and when the horse was still a Head from the line - But the horse casts a forwards SHADOW, that touches the line - then that would be, "part of the horse's head" - and count for the Winning Result.
Of course that is Not, and cannot be, the case
However - Forgive me for being pedantic - but that is how your repeated statement, "the SHADOWS ARE PART OF the horses' heads actually does read.
To be kind - the nostrils are, of course, part of the horse's head - quite obviously.
However - the way that you have posted - and AGAIN, in your explanation - STILL intimates that the, "SHADOWS are part of the horses' heads" - which simply cannot be so for adjudicating purposes.
By that 'measure' - Where the Sun to be directly behind horses, in a race - and when the horse was still a Head from the line - But the horse casts a forwards SHADOW, that touches the line - then that would be, "part of the horse's head" - and count for the Winning Result.
Of course that is Not, and cannot be, the case
However - Forgive me for being pedantic - but that is how your repeated statement, "the SHADOWS ARE PART OF the horses' heads actually does read.
SkyBet paid me on this - didn't realise the result had been reversed until I saw this thread. Fair play to them. Thank god I didn't use Betfair.
The BHA announce that in future a BHA official will have a look at the photo in addition to the judge. Expect some long photo deliberations
"Extensive new procedures" were introduced when this happened in 2016...
Much easier to sack the judge but this one went to a better school than Smudger
Good - That means much more Photo Betting on here ...
- with many Markets sliding towards 'Evens each of Two' - the longer that it takes.
- with many Markets sliding towards 'Evens each of Two' - the longer that it takes.
yeah horses that have won a short head will go 1.5 money money money
I backed Bird for Life at 2.88 to get the photo and cover my stake on Oregon Gift.
This sort of stuff really doesnt help when im trying to get friends interested in horse racing. Ridiculous
Bring back Jane Stickels I am sure she would called the correct result.
The photo technology being used is obviously inadequate and/or the BHA's website reproduction of the photos. The pictures are often grainy and
unclear. In 40 years of following US racing I have never come across an incidence of this nature. There the photos are crystal clear and always
include the mirror image. The same in France. It's not that surprising that ,given the poor quality, judges are occasionally going to make mistakes.
The problem with the photos is that it is often very difficult to separate horses' noses from the background.
Whether the result is called correctly or not when will the BHA realise that 'justice must not only be done it must be see to be done'?
unclear. In 40 years of following US racing I have never come across an incidence of this nature. There the photos are crystal clear and always
include the mirror image. The same in France. It's not that surprising that ,given the poor quality, judges are occasionally going to make mistakes.
The problem with the photos is that it is often very difficult to separate horses' noses from the background.
Whether the result is called correctly or not when will the BHA realise that 'justice must not only be done it must be see to be done'?
it is true the technology used is shockingly inadequate given the bha drive to bring horseracing into the 21st century.
re: Quality of PHOTO-Finish Prints.
I agree - they are abysmal in anything other than a very bright sunny day
Irish Photo Prints are also crystal clear - becacuse they still use PHOTOGRAPH technology -
- whereas - the BHA thought they were being clever by adopting a VIDEO technology system - as the system also gives fractions of a second differences between the finishers - from which, the BHA/Judge then CALCULATES the Distances between the horse ... on a pre-determined time-scale.
This has really backfired badly on the BHA - with many racing followers and punters often questioning some of the Distances announced - compared to the naked eye ... So, that is another UNSATISFACTORY issue. that needs addressing.
Of course, with the BHA, it will not happen - as it would mean abandoning their 'brilliant' idea
- and reverting to proper Camera Photo-Finishes, with the Judge deciding the Distances, as before.
I agree - they are abysmal in anything other than a very bright sunny day
Irish Photo Prints are also crystal clear - becacuse they still use PHOTOGRAPH technology -
- whereas - the BHA thought they were being clever by adopting a VIDEO technology system - as the system also gives fractions of a second differences between the finishers - from which, the BHA/Judge then CALCULATES the Distances between the horse ... on a pre-determined time-scale.
This has really backfired badly on the BHA - with many racing followers and punters often questioning some of the Distances announced - compared to the naked eye ... So, that is another UNSATISFACTORY issue. that needs addressing.
Of course, with the BHA, it will not happen - as it would mean abandoning their 'brilliant' idea
- and reverting to proper Camera Photo-Finishes, with the Judge deciding the Distances, as before.
you would much prefer to have the right result rather than a pinpoint distance
anyone get paid out from powers on this, oregon let my mate down for a lucky 15.
oregon didnt let your mate down . those blind f*ckers @ the track did.
And we don't want results like at Bangor a couple of months ago when a horse that wins by MORE than a nose is given a dead heat. What are you going to do about that track (and others ) BHA ?
I know the enquiry made the photo irrelevant btw but that's not the point.
looked like a lot more matched on that chelmsford photo than normal? Has the new procedure kicked in immediately?
1.02 £13,665
1.03 £30,237
1.04 £25,789
1.05 £2 £17,695
1.02 £13,665
1.03 £30,237
1.04 £25,789
1.05 £2 £17,695
The judge F Wheeler commentates at Point to Points, he has called the wrong horse throughout the race at Badbury Rings, even when its passed the post he didn't realise his mistake... c$$t
Tight photo finish calls can often be misleading at first glance and present a challenge on racedays when there is a time pressure.
WTF, what time pressure? And how much longer does it take to be certain?
WTF, what time pressure? And how much longer does it take to be certain?
^ probably because he is named Felix - and not plain Smith.
'Old School Tie', and all that.
'Old School Tie', and all that.
there had been plenty of complaints re dave smith before he messed up, he was calling photos in seconds on a number of occasions, it wasn't just his error he was plain reckless
I think the nickname Fluffy is a clue to his background. I don't think he's from the 'Hood.
Elise ,yeah I wanted him sacked was taking the fun out of the game.
im not sure if im right but i think he'd been warned already before he finally got sacked
Mar 29, 2018 -- 10:56AM, onlooker wrote:
re: Quality of PHOTO-Finish Prints.I agree - they are abysmal in anything other than a very bright sunny dayIrish Photo Prints are also crystal clear - becacuse they still use PHOTOGRAPH technology - - whereas - the BHA thought they were being clever by adopting a VIDEO technology system - as the system also gives fractions of a second differences between the finishers - from which, the BHA/Judge then CALCULATES the Distances between the horse ... on a pre-determined time-scale. This has really backfired badly on the BHA - with many racing followers and punters often questioning some of the Distances announced - compared to the naked eye ... So, that is another UNSATISFACTORY issue. that needs addressing.Of course, with the BHA, it will not happen - as it would mean abandoning their 'brilliant' idea - and reverting to proper Camera Photo-Finishes, with the Judge deciding the Distances, as before.
Is there anywhere we can see Irish photo finish prints?
You can BUY them from HRI - But they are 20euros a pop.
I am outlining their quality from those that get shown on ATR.
I am outlining their quality from those that get shown on ATR.
^ http://www.hri.ie/uploadedFiles/HRI-Corporate/PhotoFinishPrintOrderForm.pdf
Yes, I know were talking about their quality, but is there a website like the bha site where all photo finishes can be seen?
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