How much does a bolier service cost these days?

No criticism intended Onlooker, BUT why do loads of people still think/trust that British Gas is the national company of old, instead of a being a big firm (owned by a big firm, owned by another big firm) who rely for much of their income on persuading people to trade in their aged but solidly build, working well, capable of repair boilers for shoddy thin metal combi and/or condensing boilers with a shelf life of about 10 years.

no magnaclean then theres nowt to service..

I don't really, - blackbarn

I was just reproducing their Offer - which, if you have an old boiler (and I don't mean the wife ), that is a bit iffy - then it could be an idea.

The Fan on my Combi packed in last September - when I asked it to do more work, by turning the temperature up, following the summer, mostly, shut-down.

I am in the fortunate position that I know a few different tradesmen, who have a pint in our Pub and Club - and, consequently - because I reciprocate favours with them - got a virtually new Fan replacement for FREE.

Well - not necessarily free - as - if I did not go for a couple of pints of beer nearly every evening, then I would not know these guys ....

So the Fan probably cost 2  x £2.60/£2.70 per pint - per 5 nights per week X the lifetime of the boiler ... or A year for comparison with the above Offers = £26.50 x 52 weeks - means the Fan cost me.... £1378. 

But you don't get to relax, mellow, and argue/discuss Politics and Footy with a British Gas Plan. 

no magnaclean then theres nowt to service..


Best £100 I ever spent fitting one of those Willie

aye they do clean the **** from the water..

My Man £45 quid Generally give him a 50 ,he has done bits of other work for me and Friends ,10 on Check a Trade best 50 I spend each Year ,I know if the **** goes wrong he will be able to fix and I wont get stitched up ,it was him that fitted it

an easy 50..unless he actually dus check gas pressure and flue for leaks etc..

Three large Vodkas and a Chicken Vindaloo

£50 in Sheffield.
I am dyspraxic and so no way I could do it myself and they spend a bit of time on it. But who kmows except that the boiler hasn't gone wrong this winter.

Just give it a good kick once a year.

Does The Lot Steve  Tubes attached to Meter outside Etc , Move a Radiator charged me a Pony some fckers would not start the Van for that ,as stated he has got a bit of work from me ,nice bloke

Rather him than some wxnker from British Gas coming round more interested in selling me an over priced bolier than Fixing the

one I have ... Paid £600 for a boiler on Ebay (new) My man fitted it for £350 , HTF he got the Old boiler off the wall and

out on his own I will never Know

Dont live in the Biggest house Boiler does its Job. Was more interested in its Dimension than anything Else ,was Exactly same size as old One ,Saved a lot of Fckin about .

cant beat a baxi..

Our BAXI fire (boiler) went down the Tip, 30 years ago. 

That 'fault' you described (hot, cold then hot again) is a thing I recognize from our combi. Not really a fault, just the way it works I think.

could be any amount of things..faulty flow valve..heat exchanger furred up...wrong pressure blah blah blah

.... you sound like you have had previous knowledge of "old boilers" willie. ?

time served plumber gassy...long time ago now like

I'd heard you'd served time. Didn't realise it was as a plumber.

£50 IDEAL make boiler with 10yr Warranty
Now in 3rd year.
No problems.

LOL - salmon -

Willie walked into that one.

Ideal have a reputation.. and it's not a good one.

Willie Shafter what should the pressure be? Read about the heatvexchanger on t'internet. I'm pretty useful at diy but dont think I'd fancy tackling that job.

Pressure should be around 1.5 bar...not below 1

Yeah koikeeper. I tend to have it too high rather than low. Over 2 mainly, will that affect anything?

Yes...it will "blow off"...meaning that when you have the heating on the pressure rises as the water gets hot...over 3 and it will spew out of the blow off .. (copper pipe outside)

when system is cool between 1-1.5.

What you describe..hot cold hot....chances are the heat exchanger is sludged up..if it's the case then it needs to come out to clean it..or replace it..something along the lines of a "limefighter" should be placed on the cold water pipe before it enters the boiler....
A magnaclean should be fitted on the "heating return" pipe just before it enters the boiler...this collects all the crap from the heating/radiators entering the boiler

served time as plumber aged 16-21..served 2 times in HMP..

not bad really considering.

Plumber/heating engineer/gas fitter...30 odd yrs...apprentice of the year 3 yrs running...left the trade in 2011..

Had the same problem on a Worcester 24cdi was the diverter valve diaphragm

That British Gas "annual service" isn't. It's advertised as such but what you actually get is an "annual inspection", to quote the two BG engineers who I asked when I saw what they were actually doing.

Willie/koi when i have increased system pressure by using the key placed into integral filling connection? and opening the valve next to it to fill the system for pressure gauge to go up above 1.5 bar how do I get they key out? It just keeps turning, i used to be able to remove it now its just stuck in there

Give it a pull it will come out...happens regular with them

If you can't get it out..leave it there.

If i leave it in how do i know if the valves open or not?

pressure will continue rising

what key?  ive only ever seen 1 or 2 flow valves on a loop

Left it in koi just keeps turning anyway nothing happens. Cheers all for the help.

willie/koi can i ask a question, the pressure on my boiler drops down to almost zero when cold, no pipework is leaking and it is quite happy once switched on it sits at 2 and doesn't move, been like this for the last two years, am i doing any going to cause any more problems not getting it sorted.

For forks sake!!! Start your own thread!!!

Sounds like the diaghphram is split in the pressure vessel ..usually a big red disc at the rear of the boiler

Apologies sl , cheltenham was tough, the miss thinks i had it fixed last year.

Cheers koi, sounds expensive and a job for a tradesman.

houseofpain

could be a faulty pressure gauge housey..

is it a pressure issue -system  may need topping up if sealed system - shows you how on you tube

I turned the key thing to let in some water, you can here it filling up. When its switched off it starts on zero again.

You can check the expansion vessel for a spit diaghphram ...it has a valve on just like a car tyre valve ..take the cap off ..if water comes out it's kaput..if not you ca try pumping it up with a bike pump to around 1 bar

Koi pressure bar is on 1.5 when heating not on. When heating is on goes up to 2.5 is this normal or does it have to be 1.5 when heating is on? If so how do I get it down to 1.5?

Sorry for getting in the way here sl, if i pump it up koi, will the pressure gauge show me when its on 1.

Stilllearning..that is normal...pressure rises when heat is on wether it is hot water or heating.

House...it will show up on the pressure dial..

It does sound like a common fault on a combi boiler, the diverter valve diaphragm as dopeyone said. The diaphragm is a cheap part and should not cost a fortune to replace .

Cheers koi. I'm finished now, no more questions yer honour. house hope you get yours sorted.

Yeah you too pal, im all done too, no water came out so ill pump it up some time tomorrow when ive borrowed a pump. Thx too all for your time and patience.

Doonvy...the diaphragm in the diverted valve and the one in the expansion vessel are totally different..
If the diaghphram is split in the diverter valve they you won't get hot water..there is no pressure to push the pin onto the Microsoft to fire the boiler up when the hot tap is opened..
It's a simple job to replace it.

Cheers for the info koi, worked a treat thx.

My annual boiler service for my Worcester combi boiler is £65.

Fidge/freezer sounds like it's packing up now, woke up this morning and the milk was off, sounds like thermostat not working, condenser is permanently running. Its a 9 year old machine, not worth fixing I suppose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3Qq3sBOV8

Boiler update:

Previous issue fixed, had a failing fan and had to have a new pcb fitted. Now I have the following problem: when heating is off pressure gauge is showing at 0, I refill it to just over 1 using the internal filling loop and it stays there. Then the heating goes on and the gauge rises to about 2, when the heating goes off, the gauge drops back down to 0 again and not back to 1, it does this every time I refill.

Where is the refilled water going, and should I be consistently topping up? Why does theb gauge keep dropping to 0? Do you think the plastic key which is stuck (which has now snapped off in the filling loop) has anything to do with it? Worcester combi greenstar boiler.

Checked for leaks around radiators and the boiler no evidence of losing any water there.

Everything suggest a leak, but another cause could be the diaghram is split in the pressure vessel, this is the large circular thing at the back, usually red in colour

yeah read about that also koi, big job?

When that happened to me they said it was the pressure tank failing. It was 20 years old so got another one which due to the thermostat with multiple settings is saving me a good bit on gas.

my heating and hot water is working normally though, even when it's down to 0 when heating off.

so was mine after a fashion, but the low temperature/frost protection wouldn't work when I was away for a few days.  And once when I came back the temp gauge was about 3% and it kept cutting out and I had to aim a fan heater at the boiler for about 20 mins before it would work.

I suppose it's a matter of judging how much this and future repairs are. I got a new Worcester for £1600, so you can get good deals.

*temp gauge 3 degrees

Where is the refilled water going, and should I be consistently topping up? Why does theb gauge keep dropping to 0? Do you think the plastic key which is stuck (which has now snapped off in the filling loop) has anything to do with it? Worcester combi greenstar boiler.

Inside your pressure/expansion tank there's an air bag which takes up the change in pressure when the system goes from hot to cold and vice-versa.
If the bag has failed the pressure tank will simply be filled with water - with nothing to take up the expansion.

So you have to add water to pressurise the system when its cold, because it won't start without pressure.

Then when the system warms up the water expands, and because their is no air in the bag to take up the expansion. water is expelled out of the safety valve.

The system runs okay until it shuts down and goes cold, then the water contracts and the pressure drops to zero again,

And you have to add water to get the pressure up again.

The most likely cause is a failed valve in the air bag, you should be able to see this at the top of pressure tank.

It's usually the kind of valve they put in bike tyres.

All you have to do is get a bike pump and pump it up to the correct pressure.  You might have change the valve.

Or use a car pump.

The valve will be OK, it will be a split diaphragm if indeed it is that.
It's around £90 to buy on
The boiler will have to come off the wall to replace it. But a cheaper way
Is to add another expansion vessel maybe underneath the boiler, if there's room.

thanks Dr Crippen and koikeeper, I have seen the expansion tank at the back of the boiler and the valve at the top, not sure whether it has a cap on it though, Dr Crippen, will it do any damage short term continually adding water to the system to move gauge from 0 to 1 bar when it's cold?

He's not a real Dr imo

That's what the blow off is for

No wonder there is a skill shortage in UK,its not a service it needs it's past that stage its a brake down, call out a local indy guy and let him do his thing, don't buy anew unit the Worcester bosch is a decent boiler and all parts readily available,local indy guy, will give you a quote have the right card to do the job and supply and fit some new bits, reckon it sounds like fan/diaphram there is a vacuum valve and some other wee  doophery bits and bobs but reckon it's worth repairing and get a local indy dude, bigger firm will recommend renewal but that's prob not a best idea, them Worcester bosch is OK imo.fans do chuck it in emm after a million unserviced hours

It should have a cap on it SL, the same as on a car tyre.
If there is water in the valve, this is a good indication that the diaphragm has a puncture.
If not, it probably just wants some air pumping in, or the valve is leaking air.

This is the first thing an engineer should address on the information you've given.
Just a few pumps could probably fix it.

If the diaphragm has gone in the pressure tank then it will have to be replaced. 
Of course they can charge you a lot more for changing the pressure tank, which always makes that favourite - lol.

will it do any damage short term continually adding water to the system to move gauge from 0 to 1 bar when it's cold?

No.

Just looked Dr Crippen, took off cap of expansion tank and when I pressed top of valve, water indeed did come out, put a few pumps of air in anyway. Looks like it's what you said, thanks for the advice, at least I know I have a bit more to go on when I call the plumber.

The chances are he won't replace like for like, too much of a job, boiler off the wall etc, like I said before, easier to add another one.

message for koi/willie or Dr Crippen, sorry to keep digging this thread up but think I have established it's a dodggy diaphragm needs replacing, external expansion vessel is looking favourite, still trying to convince a plumber to get round, think they are running scared, just a couple of important questions, I know Dr Crippen has partially answered one: If I keep topping up the pressure by refilling with water, everytime I have had the heating on where is that water going? and am I better just leaving it at 0 when it is cold (as it goes up to 2 anyway when heating comes on)

I answered this one, the blow off.. A copper overflow pipe outside

Thanks Koi, would you keep topping up or leave it at 0?

when cold I mean

SL, I have had the exact same problem for the last 2 and half years, my expansion tank has perished, i've had the boiler 17 years so i'm going to get myself a brand new worcester when it eventually packs in. Fully expected that to be this winter when i switched the rads on in october but it's still going strong and i still keep topping it up, have had no problems at all other than that.

Cheers JJmbe, how often do you top it up though? Thinking of moving anyway, so don't want to splash out on a new boiler, prefer to just keep it going.

Just top it up enough to fire the boiler up, you might get away with half a bar, bearing in mind that the pressure will rise when it gets hot, if it gets up to around 3 bar it will blow off.

koi, boiler fires up even when on 0 that's why I asked top it up or leave it?

If it fires up leave it

StillLearning
Date Joined: 13 Jun 12
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26 Jan 20 14:10Joined: 13 Jun 12 | Topic/replies: 8,974 | Blogger: StillLearning's blog
Just looked Dr Crippen, took off cap of expansion tank and when I pressed top of valve, water indeed did come out, put a few pumps of air in anyway. Looks like it's what you said, thanks for the advice, at least I know I have a bit more to go on when I call the plumber.



Personally SL I wouldn't let a plumber near my boiler. It would have to be a gas safe heating engineer. You may get a gas safe plumber nowadays so it's possible they might have paid the dough to get the certificate.

My nephew is gas safe and has to pay over a grand every three years to go through a practical and written test. The one thing you don't want is any carbon monoxide leaking but most have the alarm which I check every fortnight.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrie_McCathie

I usually just leave it and it fires up ok, occasionally once a fortnight or so i put a little bit of water in.

The mrs just said sometimes it can be a couple of months, the boiler will tell you it wont fire up.

Jan 29, 2020 -- 1:34PM, stewarty b wrote:

StillLearningDate Joined: 13 Jun 12Add contact | Send message26 Jan 20 14:10Joined: 13 Jun 12 | Topic/replies: 8,974 | Blogger: StillLearning's blogJust looked Dr Crippen, took off cap of expansion tank and when I pressed top of valve, water indeed did come out, put a few pumps of air in anyway. Looks like it's what you said, thanks for the advice, at least I know I have a bit more to go on when I call the plumber.Personally SL I wouldn't let a plumber near my boiler. It would have to be a gas safe heating engineer. You may get a gas safe plumber nowadays so it's possible they might have paid the dough to get the certificate.My nephew is gas safe and has to pay over a grand every three years to go through a practical and written test. The one thing you don't want is any carbon monoxide leaking but most have the alarm which I check every fortnight.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrie_McCathie

I meant a gas safe heating engineer I just call them plumbers.

No probs SL but you'd be surprised just how long a period some people leave it between services. My boiler is just over 2 years old and I've had it serviced once. I was told by my heating engineer to leave it for two years to get it serviced because it's fairly new.

He also told me that the most I would pay is if the circuit board went faulty.

Are you sure he was qualified..

I'm open to your views Koi.

Never had my boiler serviced in 17 years, a valve of something similar went after about 7 years, off hand think i spent about £150 , so i guess i've been lucky and and well overdue a replacement when it finally packs up.

koikeeper, Dr Crippen or WS or anyone else with previous plumbing experience.

Have you ever fitted a new pressure gauge on a Worcester Bosch Greenstar Junior 24i?

Is it something I could do myself, given the step by step instructions?

When my boiler doesn't fire up its normally because I've stopped out too long and had too much ale, she's normally alright next day though and breakfast as normal.