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Not that it is ever likely to affect me due to the fact that I am a recreational/mug punter and in negative PL, can anyone tell what is the lowest amount of life time profit that someone as had to start paying the premium charge. £1000,£2000, £10000?
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Replies: 41
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willie says £5000
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£5000
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And it does affect recreational/mug punters, it deters market makers and is part of the reason the early liquidity is so poor.
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after 250 markets..or a quick 5000 profit.
delta knows as going by his lays yesterday he must also pay it. |
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after 250 markets..or a quick 5000 profit. (if your charges are over 20%)
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cancel that ^^^
after 250 markets..or a quick 5000 profit. (if your charges are under 20%) |
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Of course £5000 is the absolute minimum figure, only happens if you win all 250 of those markets and there's only one man (monkey) who is capable of doing that.
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zodie...tarzans best mate.
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And he's exempt from PC and gets freebies thrown at him as well.
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I am very much a recreational punter and I have won quite a lot more than £5000 overall but never paid PC as I have paid something like 40% of my winnings in commission. Has to go down to 20% which in my case will only happen in another lifetime if ever.
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Salmon, you'll be in the net when you get to £250k
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I got caught in the trap long ago.
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Of course £5000 is the absolute minimum figure, only happens if you win all 250 of those markets and there's only one man (monkey) who is capable of doing that.
So if your are in profit but some of your bets are losers you wont have to pay the premium charge? I also dont understand the bit about not paying 20% in charges, thought you pay as you win in my case 5% on every winning bet. |
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If you won 12k in some of those markets and lost 7k in others to make +5k overall I think you'd be OK
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Until you have passed a lifetime 250k profit you are not on the PC radar
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Premium charge is a very strange set up, I could part understand it if they used the extra charge for other things instead of BF pocketing the money
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@ Macarony,
From 2009-2013 i made roughly 10k profit, i got premium charged at 22.5%, in simplicity how that came about was a result of dutching in golf,ie typically 6-8 selections,dumping who i thought weren't going to win and adding in running,of course obviously a lot of losers but finished up in the market(tournament) say 2 in 3 tournaments. Cannot use the exchange now as i don't have a 22.5% edge and certainly wouldn't spend my time in what i see as simply giving that charge to betfair. Mouse Muldoons 10.51 comment is correct as it mirrors my experience. |
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Rubbish Olias.
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Actually you are right lapsy, I am sure it started out with a 250k threshold but that seems to have gone
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There are two premium charges. You only pay the higher one if you make £250k profit but you might have to pay the lower one if you don't pay 20% of your winnings in commission.
For mouse's benefit I won't get to £250k in this lifetime either. Unless zodie starts putting up tips before the race of course. |
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Thanks for that clarification Salmon
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Unfortunately i know Olias, the 5k+£1 sum is correct in theory but nigh impossible.
Betfair themselves put some people in PC territory,on joining i was given a cd to "encourage" trading,with what was follow(PC) it wasn't how i would approach it if i had the time again, result is a redunant account and for what it is worth regarding exchange enjoy small bets with a bookmaker much more now. |
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.
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unsure if it's clear to you, but you can win more than 250k and bet in thousands of markets yet still not pay pc
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pa lapsy • March 15, 2018 11:26 AM GMT
Cannot use the exchange now as i don't have a 22.5% edge and certainly wouldn't spend my time in what i see as simply giving that charge to betfair The first bit isn't correct as, all other things being equal, you would still be profitable, but less so and it's quite reasonable for you to say that it isn't worth your time. |
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Dave fair enough point,dyanamics of the exchange have changed in the meantime though,i might make some fist of it but lack the market makers now that actually took a view/had an opinion.
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That has nothing to do with PC.
the horse racing "took a view/had an opinion" market makers just got tired of losing their money. |
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No JML,the main golf layer/backer (ETE) couldn't make a market because of PC,he is long gone.
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At the higher rates of PC sequential runs make otherwise profitable, highly volatile strategies, untenable.
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pa lapsy
even without eddie the golf market is very competetive. last years masters the book % was always below 105 which included a number of 1000/1 shots. all the layers aiming for a tiny profit(1-2%)and then they all lost money because the 5/1 fav withdrew and obviously no rule 4. |
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Greatest of respect JML as you got who i was talking about straight off, however there are a few Eddies and to a lot lesser extent me's but each and every one adds at least a tick and that is the detrimental sidde side to each and every player on the exchange.
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PC has basically killed any growth in the exchange, on a slippery slope now
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how could anyone forget eddie or his fantastic win on oosthuizen in 2010.
he tried to lay 140+ runners at 102% to take out 100s of thousands but was always left with a book with huge winners and even bigger losers. that strategy was always doomed to fail. |
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Going back a few years but i'd be quite sure he posted he couldn't play because of the charge,also possibly he was going to give the daq a try but don't think that materialised, his golf betting brain was so astute all the same,again on memory he would put prizes up for a comp and often win it himself.
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introduced PC charge and virtually stopped anyone paying it betting pre race..beggars belief.
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Remember Eddie the the eagle posting that he would back four to six golfers a week but the liqutidy was not there for the stakes he wanted so he layed golfers that he did not fancy as well.When he hit a bad run he reckoned he had paid most of his profits in pc with no rebate.JML the golf markets are pretty much dead in running for example this week tiger is 7-1 fav pre off is in to 4-1 when he finished his first round.Mcllory is freely available at 22 and there were people asking for 15.5 before he teed off same with fowler around 22 yet people asking for 17.5.Years ago these bets would have been snapped up in seconds yet they were there for minutes.Nearly all the money traded in running is on a sunday when the fast pic guys come out to play.
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Yes I am aware of that Elise
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only when the PC accounts for 1%-2% of betfairs profits will they get rid of it as share holders profits is all that matters now .
betfairs profits rise year on year, it was only the other week they released their profits for 2017 and if i remember they were up about 15% , but they said they are having to spend an extra £20 million this year on promoting betfair ( not sure if exchange or sportsbook , 1.01/1.02 sportsbook though ) they had the best marketing in town which is word of mouth from its users, this doesn't happen anymore like it use to from what i can tell. too many cheesed off customers , no communication between customers and betfair , charges too high etc . would they need to spend £20m promoting betfair if they removed PC ( i doubt it ) , or would the removal of PC bring in more liquidity, customers, word of mouth , better publicity , close every other exchange as betfair would have most of the liquidity instead of diluting it . not sure if the would come out the other side equal or with less profit . probably only betfair know |
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after 250 markets..or a quick 5000 profit. (if your charges are under 20%)
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