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where to start!!
''Some frown on concerts that are now so popular at race meetings in the summer. To me they offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again."
I wonder how many Ed has attended? The 'Little Mix' crowd couldn't care less if it were camel racing and the 'Boys Night Out' groups seldom wander far from the bars, sending the odd one or two who profess to know about racing, out to place their wagers on their behalf...he hasn't mentioned that these events have a higher probability of alienating the regular racegoer than they do of 'entice them to come racing again'!!!
'"Racing needs to do similar and get on the front foot and be less reactionary." - if going on the front foot means taking the bull by the horns and projecting the sport/industry in a different fashion then fine but that requires the 'media' amongst others to call a spade a spade and speak up in non-gravy-train language about the many factors repeated here ad infinitum - too much racing, good racing concentrated on saturdays, high admission costs and even higher refreshment/food prices, increasing number of suspect rides, links between trainers/owners and bookmakers, account restrictions etc etc
'Chamberlin also called trainers to not only allow apprentice riders to do media training but to encourage them to do so.' - I got immersed in horseracing more than 30 years ago (and stuck with it since) due to horses and betting not because of the fascinating insight provided on ITV/BBC by interviewing jockeys, in fact the best jockey of the era hardly spoke two words!! it was the excitement of the race, getting to know the horses and the form, the stables in form, the draw bias, the going preferences, the joy of winning and the self-doubts after losing etc etc but always always it came back to the horses themselves
I realise the changes in the past 1-2 generations across all aspects of life, work and leisure are greater than at any comparative time in history and the omnipresence of the internet means there is no going back - but all these media types who believe they know what the public want are just deluding themselves...I can't see horse racing being any thing else than a niche sport but at the same time a substantial industry (in fact two industries - one related to the horses themselves and the other to betting)..but the feeling of walking through the gates at cheltenham or sitting down in our favourite bar in hamilton for a few hours with a few pints and going through the form together before a days racing cannot be replicated and I hope I'm lucky enough to have that to look forward to for few more years yet
''Some frown on concerts that are now so popular at race meetings in the summer. To me they offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again."
I wonder how many Ed has attended? The 'Little Mix' crowd couldn't care less if it were camel racing and the 'Boys Night Out' groups seldom wander far from the bars, sending the odd one or two who profess to know about racing, out to place their wagers on their behalf...he hasn't mentioned that these events have a higher probability of alienating the regular racegoer than they do of 'entice them to come racing again'!!!
'"Racing needs to do similar and get on the front foot and be less reactionary." - if going on the front foot means taking the bull by the horns and projecting the sport/industry in a different fashion then fine but that requires the 'media' amongst others to call a spade a spade and speak up in non-gravy-train language about the many factors repeated here ad infinitum - too much racing, good racing concentrated on saturdays, high admission costs and even higher refreshment/food prices, increasing number of suspect rides, links between trainers/owners and bookmakers, account restrictions etc etc
'Chamberlin also called trainers to not only allow apprentice riders to do media training but to encourage them to do so.' - I got immersed in horseracing more than 30 years ago (and stuck with it since) due to horses and betting not because of the fascinating insight provided on ITV/BBC by interviewing jockeys, in fact the best jockey of the era hardly spoke two words!! it was the excitement of the race, getting to know the horses and the form, the stables in form, the draw bias, the going preferences, the joy of winning and the self-doubts after losing etc etc but always always it came back to the horses themselves
I realise the changes in the past 1-2 generations across all aspects of life, work and leisure are greater than at any comparative time in history and the omnipresence of the internet means there is no going back - but all these media types who believe they know what the public want are just deluding themselves...I can't see horse racing being any thing else than a niche sport but at the same time a substantial industry (in fact two industries - one related to the horses themselves and the other to betting)..but the feeling of walking through the gates at cheltenham or sitting down in our favourite bar in hamilton for a few hours with a few pints and going through the form together before a days racing cannot be replicated and I hope I'm lucky enough to have that to look forward to for few more years yet
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apprentices already do compulsory media training via the racing school classes
isnt paying a 'k a year for the racing post to follow the sport off putting too for newbies?
isnt paying a 'k a year for the racing post to follow the sport off putting too for newbies?
Ed Chamberlin is nothing more than an advertisement space salesman on behalf of ITV.
Is there actually a problem?
Racecourses jam-packed reporting record attendances and plenty of young people going racing as far as I can tell.
Racecourses jam-packed reporting record attendances and plenty of young people going racing as far as I can tell.
Plenty of young people going racing ? I was at Sandown on Friday and very few young people there. Most were 40 plus. Enjoyed the day though, apart from the usual nightmare of getting out of Esher (over an hour !). Wouldn't dream of going to another meeting when there is a concert. Did it once, but never again.
Ghh:
Racecourses jam-packed reporting record attendances and plenty of young people going racing as far as I can tell.
That aint young people going racing .Its going to a concert with racing attached as a pre side show.
Racecourses jam-packed reporting record attendances and plenty of young people going racing as far as I can tell.
That aint young people going racing .Its going to a concert with racing attached as a pre side show.
At least it might make them decide to start a band.
Having a selfie around the paddock of a 0-60 hcap to post to facebook aint cool;
1 hour later they can be posting selfies @ the front of the concert which is.
1 hour later they can be posting selfies @ the front of the concert which is.
I think the attendances at NH courses which race during winter (with an absence of music nights) on Saturdays (e.g. cheltenham, newbury, ascot, haydock, warwick etc) are holding up (don't have the actual data to hand) but mid-week probably struggling...the situation in Scotland is however encouraging..
'When One For Arthur crossed the line at Aintree to become the first Scottish-trained winner of the Grand National since 1979, it was a seminal moment for horse racing north of the border.
But the bigger picture is even brighter for the sport. Attendances across the five courses in Scotland - Ayr, Hamilton Park, Kelso, Perth and Musselburgh - have risen steadily since the turn of the century.
The latter track in East Lothian was pulling in a total attendance of around 35,000 across 25 fixtures annually. That figure had doubled by 2016 and operators hope it will soon rise to 80,000. The numbers attending race meetings across the country topped 308,000 in 2015 - a seven year high, worth an estimated £173m to the national economy. And it’s not just attendances that are on the up. More punters means bigger rewards for winners. Prize money at Hamilton Park will break the £1 million mark this year - a 15 per cent increase from 2016, to over £1.166m, with a further £800,000 earmarked for refurbishment of the grandstand.
For Bill Farnsworth, chief executive of Musselburgh racecourse, investment in spectator facilities over the last decade is a big part in explaining the rising numbers passing through turnstiles. “It’s not that horse racing has become suddenly popular among the general public,” he told The Scotsman. “It’s because the courses have invested millions in their facilities. If you had gone racing 10 years ago and then returned this summer, you would notice a massive difference across each of the five tracks. The aim is to provide a quality experience for everyone that attends.”
Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/horse-racing/horse-racing-in-scotland-winning...
'When One For Arthur crossed the line at Aintree to become the first Scottish-trained winner of the Grand National since 1979, it was a seminal moment for horse racing north of the border.
But the bigger picture is even brighter for the sport. Attendances across the five courses in Scotland - Ayr, Hamilton Park, Kelso, Perth and Musselburgh - have risen steadily since the turn of the century.
The latter track in East Lothian was pulling in a total attendance of around 35,000 across 25 fixtures annually. That figure had doubled by 2016 and operators hope it will soon rise to 80,000. The numbers attending race meetings across the country topped 308,000 in 2015 - a seven year high, worth an estimated £173m to the national economy. And it’s not just attendances that are on the up. More punters means bigger rewards for winners. Prize money at Hamilton Park will break the £1 million mark this year - a 15 per cent increase from 2016, to over £1.166m, with a further £800,000 earmarked for refurbishment of the grandstand.
For Bill Farnsworth, chief executive of Musselburgh racecourse, investment in spectator facilities over the last decade is a big part in explaining the rising numbers passing through turnstiles. “It’s not that horse racing has become suddenly popular among the general public,” he told The Scotsman. “It’s because the courses have invested millions in their facilities. If you had gone racing 10 years ago and then returned this summer, you would notice a massive difference across each of the five tracks. The aim is to provide a quality experience for everyone that attends.”
Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/horse-racing/horse-racing-in-scotland-winning...
Ed seems a decent guy but what's he on about here? A few buzzword laden sentences without really explaining anything.
"To me they (concerts) offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again"
then
"the language of racing "intimidates and restricts" and needed "demystifying."
Why not have leaflets sent with tickets for concerts explaining what certain terms mean? Or stalls at these meetings where people can ask questions and learn? Or is he suggesting going to meters and decimals? Re-phrasing things? What exactly? What sort of stuff is he talking about re. jockeys? Try and make them celebs? Pre match interviews? It's full of nothingness.
"To me they (concerts) offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again"
then
"the language of racing "intimidates and restricts" and needed "demystifying."
Why not have leaflets sent with tickets for concerts explaining what certain terms mean? Or stalls at these meetings where people can ask questions and learn? Or is he suggesting going to meters and decimals? Re-phrasing things? What exactly? What sort of stuff is he talking about re. jockeys? Try and make them celebs? Pre match interviews? It's full of nothingness.
Long term there is nothing you can do about new punters learning the complexities of weights, going, track suitability etc. It isnt going to happen, it only happened previously due to father passing to son and the working mens club generation. It is online now, there is a choice of sports many much simpler than racing and with less perceived skullduggery to bet on. The game is over on that.
Unfortunately Chamberlain is right on using the course to attract younger patrons putting on interests to them with racing as part of their day.
Where racing can help itself if it were at all serious about racecourse attendances would be to reduce entry fees which are extortionate if you have a family looking for a day outdoors with live entertainment watching horses. You wont have much change from £100-150 taken off you just to get the family in. Thats for around 3 hours! Yes £50 an hour before paying £20 for a sandwich each and one soft drink another fiver. Maybe £20 petrol getting there.
Went recently it cost £190 to attend for 3 hours before even having a bet!
I mean which family you know are going to pay that when it is half the price of a holiday in Greece these days.
Used to go as a student when younger but wouldnt be able to afford the entry prices now if i were one. Probably losing student interest for the future as well.
Unfortunately Chamberlain is right on using the course to attract younger patrons putting on interests to them with racing as part of their day.
Where racing can help itself if it were at all serious about racecourse attendances would be to reduce entry fees which are extortionate if you have a family looking for a day outdoors with live entertainment watching horses. You wont have much change from £100-150 taken off you just to get the family in. Thats for around 3 hours! Yes £50 an hour before paying £20 for a sandwich each and one soft drink another fiver. Maybe £20 petrol getting there.
Went recently it cost £190 to attend for 3 hours before even having a bet!
I mean which family you know are going to pay that when it is half the price of a holiday in Greece these days.
Used to go as a student when younger but wouldnt be able to afford the entry prices now if i were one. Probably losing student interest for the future as well.
and students are the ones likely to see weights, going, track as a challenge to work out.
people would rather pay in and get a half decent prices for food,drink water etc 
edd,s point makes no more sense than those in racing going to pop concerts,nightclubs etc handing out flyers, etc about racing
edd,s point makes no more sense than those in racing going to pop concerts,nightclubs etc handing out flyers, etc about racing
Yes you can go in cheaper enclosures but then you dont see the horses parade which you are stung for. Those are the people interested in the horses being stung.
The real stakeholders, with the exception of owners, in racing dont really care about attendances they care about profits and that is it.
Whether it be breeders, bookmakers or courses they will take the best dollar on offer while returning as little as possible to the punter.
So why should the punter care?
Whether it be breeders, bookmakers or courses they will take the best dollar on offer while returning as little as possible to the punter.
So why should the punter care?
i care because i'm not only a punter but a horse racing enthusiast - sure i can bet on football, NFL and MLB and make a profit but it's not what really gets my heart pumping nor create those 'i was there' moment although this years world series was pretty pretty special
Why should other new punters care when those running the industry are only interested in $$$$ without giving anything back.
getting to know the horses and the form, the stables in form, the draw bias, the going preferences, the joy of winning
If you are planning on betting, doing any of those things is no longer allowed.
And therein lies the heart of the problem when it comes to the future of the sport.
The bookmaking industry commercial third parties who now control racing, assisted by the media who serve it, want to devolve the experience of betting on racing to an equine version of Rainbow Riches, where winning is not an expectation, but losing while having 'entertainment' is.
They want the sport to be seen as a game of lucky numbers, just as you'd perceive the experience of going to a casino.
The problem for racing, is that, with only a few honourable exceptions, everyone who works in the sport is either standing on the sidelines with their hands open, or giving them a round of applause...
If you are planning on betting, doing any of those things is no longer allowed.
And therein lies the heart of the problem when it comes to the future of the sport.
The bookmaking industry commercial third parties who now control racing, assisted by the media who serve it, want to devolve the experience of betting on racing to an equine version of Rainbow Riches, where winning is not an expectation, but losing while having 'entertainment' is.
They want the sport to be seen as a game of lucky numbers, just as you'd perceive the experience of going to a casino.
The problem for racing, is that, with only a few honourable exceptions, everyone who works in the sport is either standing on the sidelines with their hands open, or giving them a round of applause...
absolutely millhouse - we should expect better of those who are paid to report on the sport but long since given up on that, and chamberlin has fallen in line with his article today..
red rum saved the national, istabraq, best mate, kauto star, denman, sprinter sacre all kept the NH flame burning bright...
frankel, sea the stars, aidan o'brien are at least the equal of the stars of past generations..
it's producing and more importantly racing(!) horses like above which will bring the crowds, young and old - and whilst admission costs are far too high for the average meetings, the sold out signs are up at york, chester, cheltenham, aintree despite the prices being in the £40-£100 range! (I don't consider Ascot because although the racing itself is fantastic, it's unfortunately more and more a side show for those who want to be seen)
red rum saved the national, istabraq, best mate, kauto star, denman, sprinter sacre all kept the NH flame burning bright...
frankel, sea the stars, aidan o'brien are at least the equal of the stars of past generations..
it's producing and more importantly racing(!) horses like above which will bring the crowds, young and old - and whilst admission costs are far too high for the average meetings, the sold out signs are up at york, chester, cheltenham, aintree despite the prices being in the £40-£100 range! (I don't consider Ascot because although the racing itself is fantastic, it's unfortunately more and more a side show for those who want to be seen)
You only have to look at the design of the facilities. The overwhelming priority is to raise revenue through the corporate boxes. The average punter comes a distant second to that. A new racegoer might be impressed as they walk in and see a magnificent stand, but it soon becomes apparent that the best bits are a no go area. Things have improved since I first started going racing when the averarge guy would have to go into the silver ring, which was a good way from the winning post. The facilities were awful and the bookies offered prices much shorter than in the main ring.
As someone else has said, it costs you a big wedge to go as a family, the exit at the end of racing is nearly always a horrible experience, as there appears to be no cooperation between the courses and the local authorities in terms of getting the race traffic away expeditiously. Even for a keen racing fan it is more than tempting to watch it on the racing channels, rather than going through the hassle of driving, parking and then buying food and drink. It's ok once in a while, but I don't see how the overall experience is likely to appeal to lots of new customers. There is so much more to do, and bet on.
As someone else has said, it costs you a big wedge to go as a family, the exit at the end of racing is nearly always a horrible experience, as there appears to be no cooperation between the courses and the local authorities in terms of getting the race traffic away expeditiously. Even for a keen racing fan it is more than tempting to watch it on the racing channels, rather than going through the hassle of driving, parking and then buying food and drink. It's ok once in a while, but I don't see how the overall experience is likely to appeal to lots of new customers. There is so much more to do, and bet on.
I think his overall point is fair but not so sure about the individual points he raised. Racing does like to appear to operate within its own bubble and is very defensive of anyone outside that bubble having a negative opinion. That has been the case since year dot so very good luck with changing that.
I am not so sure that just finding any old way to get people through the gates in the hope that a small number will become converts is such a fantastic idea. Unless it is in the family most younger people who might be attracted by either concerts or betting will pretty soon find something else to grab their attention.
God help us if jockeys sell the sport. The likes of Moore aside, footballers are even worse to listen to but at least they don't need a horse to demonstrate their skills.
I am not so sure that just finding any old way to get people through the gates in the hope that a small number will become converts is such a fantastic idea. Unless it is in the family most younger people who might be attracted by either concerts or betting will pretty soon find something else to grab their attention.
God help us if jockeys sell the sport. The likes of Moore aside, footballers are even worse to listen to but at least they don't need a horse to demonstrate their skills.
I keep repeating on here that when terrestrial TV take on sports coverage they need talking heads and "celebrities" to keep the non specialist viewers from changing channel. Having a race every 15 minutes will lose you all but the keen fan if you just show horses and discuss form and those fans will probably be watching RUK. The same happens with athletics which was my main participant sport. Every British runner has to give a recorded interview to BBC to be played a few minutes before their event just when a keen fan wants to be watching a field event competitor throw or jump which they are able to do on Eurosport. It is TV for the masses not for people interested in sport.
If Chamberlin doesn't feel he has the knowledge, experience or authority to broadcast the sport to the public, he shouldn't be expecting apprentice jockeys to bail him out.
When Julian Wilson spoke to the camera, you felt thst this was a man who knew the game inside out, in a way no jockey focused just on riding the horse ever could.
When Julian Wilson spoke to the camera, you felt thst this was a man who knew the game inside out, in a way no jockey focused just on riding the horse ever could.
Net pay £1726/month for the average national pay of £27,600 in the uk in 2016 (paying 5% towards employer pension).
11% of a months pay for 3 hours with your family on a racecourse (if it costs for example £190 before bets for a family of 4).
After mortgage, car, food and bills that is likely to be more like 50% or more of disposable monthly income for a young family for 3 hour entertainment. Not going to happen is it?
Fk me do they have to hire brain surgeons to do some basic maths to see why the young arent coming to the racecourse.
11% of a months pay for 3 hours with your family on a racecourse (if it costs for example £190 before bets for a family of 4).
After mortgage, car, food and bills that is likely to be more like 50% or more of disposable monthly income for a young family for 3 hour entertainment. Not going to happen is it?
Fk me do they have to hire brain surgeons to do some basic maths to see why the young arent coming to the racecourse.
PompeyMike hits the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. When I first started attending race meetings the first thing I observed was the number of enclosures and facilities you couldn't access unless you paid to upgrade or become a day member or a full member, even then you were still restricted from some areas. Also if you wanted access to the parade ring and the rails bookmakers you had to pay for a day members badge.I used to enjoy going to the midweek and weekend NH meetings and also seeing the horses in the flesh in the pre-parade ring. As I got older I eventually got fed up with the driving especially on the long journeys home in heavy traffic. When the 2 dedicated racing channels and betfair came into being it was a no brainer for me to start watch racing from the comfort of home. Sometimes I would get refused a bet on course even though the price was available, that's not a problem sitting at home on the machine. I don't now what the answer is to get more young people interested in going racing but some of the suggestions from Ed Chamberlin are simplistic at best.
Racing is aligned with Trickle-Down capitalism and how it is ultimately failing society. It is now accepted that making the wealthy wealthier which should in turn trickle the benefits of that wealth down to the rest of society does not work. The wealthy just invest their gains in more investments that will make them wealthier still (empty property and buy-to-lets that further exacerbate housing shortages forcing prices up) rather than spending that money in areas which would benefit society.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
The bookies and breeders follow the same Trickle-Down capitalism that doesnt work for society. No point whinging about it, just wait for the revolution against it. It will happen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
The bookies and breeders follow the same Trickle-Down capitalism that doesnt work for society. No point whinging about it, just wait for the revolution against it. It will happen.
Watch the two episodes and decide for yourself where it is all going..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04xw2x8
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04xw2x8
Current working links as the BBC ones on iPlayer not showing now. Excellent view of the future and how we got to where we are now.
Dont think we should be expecting young people in zero hour contract parent families to consider paying what they have left going racing without subsidy for entrance fees.
Episode 1:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2eiirb
Episode 2:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mxebi
Dont think we should be expecting young people in zero hour contract parent families to consider paying what they have left going racing without subsidy for entrance fees.
Episode 1:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2eiirb
Episode 2:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mxebi
Agree about the costs but as a pensioner who used to go racing 3 or 4 days a week the reasons I no longer do so is a) that there is no longer a Tote Credit where all of the regulars met and mixed with owners and trainers, b) the chance of getting hot food and a seat between races is 50/1 on most courses unless you pay £50 for a 3 course meal. c) The level of information on the 2 pay channels is far superior to anything available on course. RUK costs the same per month as a visit to a premier day at a major course in club/members so it is a no brainer. Despite all that, crowds on average are up so courses have no incentive to change unless they get a cut from on course betting turnover.
Spouting all the drivel that ticks boxes in the social media era .
eric, a few fairly minor law changes would solve the problem without causing the wealthy to leave the country because trickle down can work with a bit more thought. A wealth tax on productive assets (business premises, factories and land but not private homes or investments) would make people put the assets to productive work or sell them to someone who will and the right of local authorities to limit the number of empty housing units that any one landlord (individual or corporate) can own.
sageform it isnt that simple, you need to watch those 2 episodes excellent journalism should win an award. It has been planned by certain business leaders to create a divide in society to profit further from that divide. He actually interviews the people who have deliberately instigated it and it worked.
Imagine years to come the kids now but then with their own kids and with no workers rights, zero hour contracts and unsustainable pressure trying to keep a mortgage going with the uncertainty of whether they will have money month to month to pay it.
Antepost a revolution against the corporations and big business is a no brainer in the future. It has been planned to deliberately create a divide in society to profit from watch the programmes, not boring while going into good depth.
Imagine years to come the kids now but then with their own kids and with no workers rights, zero hour contracts and unsustainable pressure trying to keep a mortgage going with the uncertainty of whether they will have money month to month to pay it.
Antepost a revolution against the corporations and big business is a no brainer in the future. It has been planned to deliberately create a divide in society to profit from watch the programmes, not boring while going into good depth.
The last thing kids of the future are going to be worrying about is finding the extortionate entry fees to take their kids to the races. They are going to be part of a modern colourless slave industry where you are living month to month and having to rent due to the uncertainty of zero hour contracts.
Without any capital individuals will be held down in poor paid jobs by greedy, merciless business leaders making their dirty gains out of human misery.
Ed needs to go and enjoy his gravy and not worry about the complexities of the questions he raises as racing is a bubble train running for profit without social conscience as the fobts also ably demonstrate.
Without any capital individuals will be held down in poor paid jobs by greedy, merciless business leaders making their dirty gains out of human misery.
Ed needs to go and enjoy his gravy and not worry about the complexities of the questions he raises as racing is a bubble train running for profit without social conscience as the fobts also ably demonstrate.
How much is stable pay these days workrider?
What would a stable lad earn in a year?
What would a stable lad earn in a year?
I would imagine a lot, Bet365 made over half a billion profit last year so that must have trickled down to stable wages.
£15,600 to £20,800 so well below the £27,600 average uk wage.
Even those in racing cant afford to take their family for a day at the races.
Even those in racing cant afford to take their family for a day at the races.
So, the business model of courses is to charge as much as they can to target individuals with no interest in racing, paying just £30 to get themselves in, who will come to the course with what they have left for a p*ss up with their mates who are also only paying themselves in.
It is known as a business model Ed. They are excluding families and those on lower wages who love racing from being able to go due to their business model of attracting p*ssheads as they also sell lots at the bar making even more $$$$.
It is known as a business model Ed. They are excluding families and those on lower wages who love racing from being able to go due to their business model of attracting p*ssheads as they also sell lots at the bar making even more $$$$.
Maybe best using L and R signs ha ha.
A suggestion for the next speech pontificating about why the price excluded arent coming racing.
Walk on the stage, say ‘have we all made great profits this year lads’ to the breeders and bookies with the head of Bet365 sat in the front row with his half a billion pounds smile, probably meal paid for as well. Then just walk off. That’s it, no point in feigning a social conscience in an industry that doesnt have one.
A suggestion for the next speech pontificating about why the price excluded arent coming racing.
Walk on the stage, say ‘have we all made great profits this year lads’ to the breeders and bookies with the head of Bet365 sat in the front row with his half a billion pounds smile, probably meal paid for as well. Then just walk off. That’s it, no point in feigning a social conscience in an industry that doesnt have one.
Cant resist adding that whenever i ring for an antepost bet with Bet365 i am greeted with ‘sir, we cant let you have anything on that’. At least they should have the balls to close my account greedy cowardly b’strds.
Eric, your figures and those available elsewhere prove that those stable staff are paid lower than the national average and i think this has probably always been the case, however the £6M mare Marsha and many other examples, show the money is out there but it is just never never going to trickle down - those stable staff are probably tied to their work in similar way as most of us are to horseracing (and betting)..it's just in us and provides incredible highs and lows..
whilst in general sympathy with your political musings on this thread, I don't have any problem with companies making money, it is after all why they exist, my contempt is for those who fail to pay sensible and reciprocal taxes, and I'm not aware of the big bookmakers being challenged on this although of course they all moved offshore as soon as they could but thats a failing of government (of all persuasions)
your point about the expense of going racing is also well made, I made same observation in OP, however there clearly is money to go round at a certain level for those attending racing, and I'm not just talking about the top meetings in the South, there are queues and queues waiting to pay more than £5 for a pint at haydock, york, aintree, chester on a regular basis and the same is true at ayr, newcastle, wetherby at their bigger meetings..but it's a day out for most of them, not the start of a lifelong interest in racing with regular attendance or even ownership..
one of the earlier posts mentioned the demographics at a non-feature raceday and suggest if anyone is serious about strengthening the industry, that it's them whose opinions should be sought...
whatever happened to the two characters dreamt up by BHA to encourage racegoing?? their response to the pathetic Stan & James or Bill & Ben or whatever..
whilst in general sympathy with your political musings on this thread, I don't have any problem with companies making money, it is after all why they exist, my contempt is for those who fail to pay sensible and reciprocal taxes, and I'm not aware of the big bookmakers being challenged on this although of course they all moved offshore as soon as they could but thats a failing of government (of all persuasions)
your point about the expense of going racing is also well made, I made same observation in OP, however there clearly is money to go round at a certain level for those attending racing, and I'm not just talking about the top meetings in the South, there are queues and queues waiting to pay more than £5 for a pint at haydock, york, aintree, chester on a regular basis and the same is true at ayr, newcastle, wetherby at their bigger meetings..but it's a day out for most of them, not the start of a lifelong interest in racing with regular attendance or even ownership..
one of the earlier posts mentioned the demographics at a non-feature raceday and suggest if anyone is serious about strengthening the industry, that it's them whose opinions should be sought...
whatever happened to the two characters dreamt up by BHA to encourage racegoing?? their response to the pathetic Stan & James or Bill & Ben or whatever..
Gordon63 yes i agree, you have to remember big business are following trickle down theory by avoiding taxes and it is not then being spent by them to benefit society, just to make themselves even wealthier via property which makes average joe even more worse off with property prices.
I would advise everyone watch the 2 episodes, everyone should know how a divide in society has been deliberately planned by business leaders. In addition it also interviews the guru in the States who the Phoney Bliar government consulted to break the teaching unions to eliminate workers rights. It isnt chance, poverty and instability has been planned to profit from which is despicable.
Racing is getting what it wants, maximum profits for the main stakeholders. There is no interest whatsoever from those stakeholders in keeping those who love or those who might in future love horse racing coming racing. In fact it is the opposite they are being deliberately excluded by pricing models.
They want a public sticking a pin (quickly) in and losing (quickly) with no real depth of interest.
They want attendees at racecourses to come as individuals in groups paying for drinks. These individuals wont have any depth of interest in racing it is a playground for adults to get their gear on and get p*ssed with betting entertainment laid on.
Discussion over. There will be no enthusiasts in future just a roulette table taking the highest $$$$ rate possible.
I would advise everyone watch the 2 episodes, everyone should know how a divide in society has been deliberately planned by business leaders. In addition it also interviews the guru in the States who the Phoney Bliar government consulted to break the teaching unions to eliminate workers rights. It isnt chance, poverty and instability has been planned to profit from which is despicable.
Racing is getting what it wants, maximum profits for the main stakeholders. There is no interest whatsoever from those stakeholders in keeping those who love or those who might in future love horse racing coming racing. In fact it is the opposite they are being deliberately excluded by pricing models.
They want a public sticking a pin (quickly) in and losing (quickly) with no real depth of interest.
They want attendees at racecourses to come as individuals in groups paying for drinks. These individuals wont have any depth of interest in racing it is a playground for adults to get their gear on and get p*ssed with betting entertainment laid on.
Discussion over. There will be no enthusiasts in future just a roulette table taking the highest $$$$ rate possible.
To get back to the opening sentence, of the opening post ...
''Some frown on concerts that are now so popular at race meetings in the summer. To me they offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again."
---------------
- and then - some pedantic tawt at the BHA decides that we HAVE to have Race Distances such as this one from Kempton, last night ...
1m 7f 218yds
Just 2 yards short of - 2 MILES.
Half the field would run MORE than those 2 yards 'short' - by being mid-field to outside on the bends.
''Some frown on concerts that are now so popular at race meetings in the summer. To me they offer a perfect opportunity to educate people about our sport, engage them in our sport, and entice them to come racing again."
---------------
- and then - some pedantic tawt at the BHA decides that we HAVE to have Race Distances such as this one from Kempton, last night ...
1m 7f 218yds
Just 2 yards short of - 2 MILES.
Half the field would run MORE than those 2 yards 'short' - by being mid-field to outside on the bends.
Ed Chamberlin is a very personable guy and a good presenter who is extremely good at his job. But he does not speak with authority on the sport eg when he speaks, he does not make yours truly want to listen to him because he does not know sufficiently about the sport through no fault of his own. He may be an ardent supporter/follower - recently or in the past - but definitely no Julian Wilson or Brough Scott; he's only employed by ITV as a presenter. Also, I do not think he'd be asked to front a specialist horse racing channel eg Racing Uk or BBC Racing, for instance. I'd be more inclined to watch and listen to ex-jockeys eg Murtagh, Carson, Kinane, Fallon, etc, for education and info because they'd been/still are involved with the sport.
As a long time racing fan and follower of the sport my main bugbears with horseracing at the moment are eg:-
1) racing at saturation level,...a high percentage of which is of mediocre quality.
2) the difficulty in placing a bet and withdrawing money/fund post an (occasional) win without the risk of being
restricted (wrongly) and (rescinded) eg with 'ok coral' - truly bizarre.
3) the lack of "genuine" investigative racing journalism and standard of journalism in general especially at the Racing Post
4) the cosy relationship between racing journalists and bookies, and trainers and bookies.
5) the exorbitant costs of a day out at the races (not punting) merely to watch the horses and races.
Horse Racing is facing competition from various other well supported sports thus unlikely to be able to redeem their past glory days. And to be perfectly frank I'd not miss horse racing coverage on terrestrial tv as long as the specialist providers deliver real-life pictures or transmission.
At the end of day I just like to enjoy a day out at the races and be able to place a bet (without concession, if must) when I want and how I want without risking being restricted and/or fund withdrawal obstructed/denied post an occasional antepost/ day of the race win.
Less talk and more action, please, from the racing fraternity and authority.
As a long time racing fan and follower of the sport my main bugbears with horseracing at the moment are eg:-
1) racing at saturation level,...a high percentage of which is of mediocre quality.
2) the difficulty in placing a bet and withdrawing money/fund post an (occasional) win without the risk of being
restricted (wrongly) and (rescinded) eg with 'ok coral' - truly bizarre.
3) the lack of "genuine" investigative racing journalism and standard of journalism in general especially at the Racing Post
4) the cosy relationship between racing journalists and bookies, and trainers and bookies.
5) the exorbitant costs of a day out at the races (not punting) merely to watch the horses and races.
Horse Racing is facing competition from various other well supported sports thus unlikely to be able to redeem their past glory days. And to be perfectly frank I'd not miss horse racing coverage on terrestrial tv as long as the specialist providers deliver real-life pictures or transmission.
At the end of day I just like to enjoy a day out at the races and be able to place a bet (without concession, if must) when I want and how I want without risking being restricted and/or fund withdrawal obstructed/denied post an occasional antepost/ day of the race win.
Less talk and more action, please, from the racing fraternity and authority.
bloke doing the rounds on sky sports,sky news ,beeb today saying racing never been so popular ,steady as she goes,easy passing the gravey boat down
funnily enough the sky news reporter said he went to the races on a freebie junket thought it was a great day out but never been or thought of going back,one would assume if he,d endured all the average joe blogs costs ,he,d have rather cut his hand off than go again
Several years ago I was fortunate enough to be invited by a VIP customer of Billies to their hospitality box at Sandown Park one winter afternoon in February or March - it was phenomenal. Everything was free eg entrance, drinks, salmon/roast beef, etc; runners were on hand to place bets on your behalf. But I did not like the atmosphere and vacated after only a couple of races to be closer to the action.
My friend did not win that afternoon, and most in the box did not either, but the hospitality box achieved its main purpose ie provided a comfortable environment conducive for extracting cash from the VIP customers.
My friend did not win that afternoon, and most in the box did not either, but the hospitality box achieved its main purpose ie provided a comfortable environment conducive for extracting cash from the VIP customers.
chambnerlin the horse racing buff at chelt and not aware of the news regarding cue card probably to busy looking at the line up for next years fri music nights
Listen, the game is dying. I love going racing but that’s because I’m an old git (with some like-minded old gittish mates) who got into the game because it was the only thing you could bet on. That meant rascalry, excitement & mischief. If you weren’t (and still aren’t) an insider you could still revel in the sheer notoriety of the whole experience. Gambling wasn’t respectable; that made it even more fun.
Now gambling is no longer beyond the Pale and, of course, you can gamble on football, on individual singles as well as the myriad other bets on offer. Plus, football (&, I guess rugby and cricket if those are your things) are actually entertaining sports in their own right. You can watch & enjoy without a bet.
Now I go racing about 50 times a year but I wouldn’t watch a single horse race if I either didn’t have a bet or wasn’t watching with a future bet in mind. I don’t even like horses much; I like gambling and for me that’s nags. I dare say I’m not alone but the younger generation have different outlets.
And don’t get me started on the Animal Rights lobby - I give National Hunt racing 20 years tops.
Now gambling is no longer beyond the Pale and, of course, you can gamble on football, on individual singles as well as the myriad other bets on offer. Plus, football (&, I guess rugby and cricket if those are your things) are actually entertaining sports in their own right. You can watch & enjoy without a bet.
Now I go racing about 50 times a year but I wouldn’t watch a single horse race if I either didn’t have a bet or wasn’t watching with a future bet in mind. I don’t even like horses much; I like gambling and for me that’s nags. I dare say I’m not alone but the younger generation have different outlets.
And don’t get me started on the Animal Rights lobby - I give National Hunt racing 20 years tops.
Listen, the game is dying. I love going racing but that’s because I’m an old git (with some like-minded old gittish mates) who got into the game because it was the only thing you could bet on. That meant rascalry, excitement & mischief. If you weren’t (and still aren’t) an insider you could still revel in the sheer notoriety of the whole experience. Gambling wasn’t respectable; that made it even more fun.
Now gambling is no longer beyond the Pale and, of course, you can gamble on football, on individual singles as well as the myriad other bets on offer. Plus, football (&, I guess rugby and cricket if those are your things) are actually entertaining sports in their own right. You can watch & enjoy without a bet.
Now I go racing about 50 times a year but I wouldn’t watch a single horse race if I either didn’t have a bet or wasn’t watching with a future bet in mind. I don’t even like horses much; I like gambling and for me that’s nags. I dare say I’m not alone but the younger generation have different outlets.
And don’t get me started on the Animal Rights lobby - I give National Hunt racing 20 years tops.
Now gambling is no longer beyond the Pale and, of course, you can gamble on football, on individual singles as well as the myriad other bets on offer. Plus, football (&, I guess rugby and cricket if those are your things) are actually entertaining sports in their own right. You can watch & enjoy without a bet.
Now I go racing about 50 times a year but I wouldn’t watch a single horse race if I either didn’t have a bet or wasn’t watching with a future bet in mind. I don’t even like horses much; I like gambling and for me that’s nags. I dare say I’m not alone but the younger generation have different outlets.
And don’t get me started on the Animal Rights lobby - I give National Hunt racing 20 years tops.
Ed Chamberlame , I am sick of the ****** sight of the **** .
Hard enough seeing the horse die, but on top of that Ed is in an even more 'congratulations to everyone' mode than usual. Firstly congratulating Ryan Day for his comments on the poor horse after Oily has told him what to say, then congratulating Boiled on his 'tone' in commentary. That has to be a new low. What's next, congratulations to whoever put the batteries in the microphones?
I keep reading about all the poor people who can't afford this that and the other. The latest retail survey showed strong growth and a worldwide surey suggested that the UK was top of what ever measure they used of affordability of a variety of goods and services. Many people are struggling of course but not the majority. Race attendances are up, Prem league matches are mostly sold out, 4000 barmy army in Australia etc.
wonderful things credit cards and endless cheap borrowing
Debt is the downfall of the masses. It is the makeup of the financial markets, bundling and trading our debts is what makes bankers rich.
That is until their greed led them to bundle the mortgages they thought were safe with risky ones until homeowners in the States started defaulting on them as the middle classes were squeezed causing these subprimes to bring down the financial markets. Then as well as encouraging us to get into debt to get rich off our backs, they were bailed out of their greedy subprimes with tax-payers money but not only that, we were given austerity measures for their dismal failure. Not only that but the bailout cash found its way to the richest 1% what a great land of hope and glory.
That is until their greed led them to bundle the mortgages they thought were safe with risky ones until homeowners in the States started defaulting on them as the middle classes were squeezed causing these subprimes to bring down the financial markets. Then as well as encouraging us to get into debt to get rich off our backs, they were bailed out of their greedy subprimes with tax-payers money but not only that, we were given austerity measures for their dismal failure. Not only that but the bailout cash found its way to the richest 1% what a great land of hope and glory.
The real threat to our wealth is a left wing Government who would confiscate most of it to finance their "progressive" policy.
They say how wonderful these after racing concerts are but how often do the likes of Ed Chamberlin or Matt Chapman pay the inflated racecourse entrance charges for the "pleasure" of Madness etc on?
I like going to Sandown its usually around £16/18 for grandstand entry.
Come the concert night its usually double, I've no interest in the band and wouldn't stay so never likely to go to one of these meetings.
Tell a lie, I went to Chepstow last year, on a Friday night, Simply Red were performing.
The stage was located on the rails at the furlong pole, this blocked out any runners up the near rail until past the furlong pole.
Friend of mine emailed the course about how awkward this was, their reply was well its always been there and will remain there i.e couldn't care less about the race watchers.
Come the concert night its usually double, I've no interest in the band and wouldn't stay so never likely to go to one of these meetings.
Tell a lie, I went to Chepstow last year, on a Friday night, Simply Red were performing.
The stage was located on the rails at the furlong pole, this blocked out any runners up the near rail until past the furlong pole.
Friend of mine emailed the course about how awkward this was, their reply was well its always been there and will remain there i.e couldn't care less about the race watchers.
If the idea is to get more people coming racing we might consider banning live TV coverage. In the US there is often a TV blackout in the area of a sporting event. It would have the added advantage of getting rid of Clueless Chamberlin and (even better) Bonkers Chapman. (Has he really been hired to front "Dancing On Ice"?) The question was being asked 50 years ago when I first went racing as a boy. The answer was the same then as now: it is too expensive. Why is it $4 entry in USA? No bookies need to be subsidised. The track runs its own tote. Do the fees paid by ITV, Racing Channel and ATR make up for reduced attendances?
racing is not like other sports,its not something you do once a week,by sourcing the cheapest tkt you can still probably get a tkt,get the wife to drop you off ,pickmyou mup etc for 40 quid or under
racing is not something people tend to do on a weekly basis,working out the cheapest way to do it,if you treat it as the same equation as above ,cheapest entry,just get dropped off,picked up by the wife ,watch the races come home you can probably do it for 20 quid or under, but most people would probably set aside 200/300 quid for a day at the races even if they hope they don't spend that much,and for most it probably starts at 10 in the morning and goes on late into the night and is something they may do 6 times a year, if it were turned into a 20 quid event and the uniqueness of a special day taken out of it ,they probably wouldn't do it at all
getting smartened up
meeting the lads days drink
meal after racing
few pubs
etc. is all part of it ,if you just want to watch the racing and have a bet the sofa or maybe pub,club is the place to be,
how many of our age were engaged in racing through local social clubs with a bookies next door which had the old blower commentaries, fed into the club
racing is not something people tend to do on a weekly basis,working out the cheapest way to do it,if you treat it as the same equation as above ,cheapest entry,just get dropped off,picked up by the wife ,watch the races come home you can probably do it for 20 quid or under, but most people would probably set aside 200/300 quid for a day at the races even if they hope they don't spend that much,and for most it probably starts at 10 in the morning and goes on late into the night and is something they may do 6 times a year, if it were turned into a 20 quid event and the uniqueness of a special day taken out of it ,they probably wouldn't do it at all
getting smartened up
meeting the lads days drink
meal after racing
few pubs
etc. is all part of it ,if you just want to watch the racing and have a bet the sofa or maybe pub,club is the place to be,
how many of our age were engaged in racing through local social clubs with a bookies next door which had the old blower commentaries, fed into the club
Yes they dont care about getting people interested in racing into the courses. Bringing about their own downfall through maximising $$$$ nothing can get in the way until the partygoers paying just themselves in and buying drinks find somewhere else to party.
If you like horses you dont go to the bother to go in the grandstand or centre of the course you want to see them parade. Why should the people who love the horses be stood around doing nothing in between 5 minute races because the courses are too greedy to let them see them?
the new wave of grandstands are basically shopping centres,leisure complexes. with ever increasing ways of getting you to spend money and besides viewing spots in accessable to most pockets have nothing to do with the racing
The cost of going racing for 3 hours entertainment is currently not justifiable if you want to go and see the horses parade. It is way way out of the pockets of families where the you g actually develop an affinity for the race horses and dont simply want to get p*ssed with a few bets with their mates.
I love horse racing and football. I still attend the odd prestigious race meetings but not football solely because the total spend at a football match is so expensive eg £70/80; £40/50 for a ticket (opposition dependent), £10/15 for substinance and a drink, £10/15 transport/parking. And that is for one person!
Why would I want to pay to further inflate the already bulging wallets of the players (home grown and foreign) and egotistical foreign managers? If a bigger portion of my expense was earmarked for grass root football I'd be all for it. And now I do not even watch the Champions League since pay-per-view only (only the finals on terrestrial), but I still enjoy watching the FA Cup matches very much.
Why would I want to pay to further inflate the already bulging wallets of the players (home grown and foreign) and egotistical foreign managers? If a bigger portion of my expense was earmarked for grass root football I'd be all for it. And now I do not even watch the Champions League since pay-per-view only (only the finals on terrestrial), but I still enjoy watching the FA Cup matches very much.
I agree with ftp, this is the first season for 30 years I have not been to a course for live racing. Too expensive and all about fleecing the customers to pay their premium to the tracks for pitches.
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