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09 Dec 17 01:32
Date Joined: 04 Aug 06
| Topic/replies: 47,090 | Blogger: casemoney's blog
Must be horses names we remember from our youth,but don't really know  ,This one I can remember From the Times I watched Racing, Had not Got a Clue what 20-1 bar was, but if you were watching the racing on TV they put up the Results from other meetings ,FLASH IMP the fcker was always coming up in results Grin  Think I was about 10 early 70s I thought that must be a Great horse Laugh

I await to be enlightened ,I have not googled so if he was decent, Just shows what a Judge I was ,Shame the fckin wheels fell off in later Life Sad
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Report sparrow December 12, 2017 4:46 PM GMT
We all remember our first winner workrider. Mine was London Cry in 1958 Cambridgeshire at 20/1 and ridden by Scobie Breasley. My dad had taken me to Newmarket and allowed me a shilling bet as I was just 10 years old at the time. I was a big fan of the Nightingale stable in the 60s and had backed his horse I Say to finish 3rd to the great Sea Bird in 1965.
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 4:47 PM GMT
Traitors Gate was Tommy Gosling, at least at the end of his long career.  He was 11 in 1968 and won on his last appearance for that season. He seems to have won one race nearly every season.  Any idea of the course for your win Workrider? Was it Yarmouth?

nb - we may well need Ged and/or Onlooker for this one.
Report ribero1 December 12, 2017 4:49 PM GMT
Thanks very much Blackbarn,i'd been to all the Yorkshire tracks by then but for some reason they'd never taken me to York,my Dad was a massive Piggott fan,fairly sure it was a backend meeting and York was fairly quiet that day.
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 4:51 PM GMT
Sparrow - London CryCool   Scobie and Sir Gordon Richards - what a combo.   You should have taken SPCry  Returned 22's
Report sparrow December 12, 2017 4:56 PM GMT
I blame my dad for that, blackbarn. Grin
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 5:02 PM GMT
Sparrow - I blame my Uncle Jack, who got me into this sport aged SIXLaugh.  I wish he was around now. I'd like to take him up to John Gosden and say.....Mr Gosden, this is my Uncle Jack, he knew your dad very well from the Lewes days, and could tell you lots of stories about the old days.  I'd like to think he'd be interestedWink
Report sparrow December 12, 2017 5:11 PM GMT
Ah but in later years when I was old enough to bet for myself my dad did warn me about Towser Gosden. That would be around 1964 and I soon found out what he meant. Grin
Report ged December 12, 2017 5:13 PM GMT
Traitors Gate made his racecourse debut as a 2yo at Hurst Park on the day Oxo won the Grand National - March 21, 1959. He was 2nd in a field of 42 debutants. He was then trained by Peter Ashworth, and was down in the morning paper to be ridden by G Harper(7), but it looks like they went for a touch, as in the race itself he was ridden by Doug Smith (who would be champion jockey that season for the 5th time in 6 years). He was beaten by a 4/1 shot. Seems people knew the score - 42 newcomers, 4/1 beats a 7/2.
Report ged December 12, 2017 5:27 PM GMT
...looks like he had a tough enough first season, as he was also racing on the last day of the flat season, when he finished 2nd in a 29-runner 7f nursery at Lingfield on Nov 14, ridden by Paul Tulk.
Report ronnie rails December 12, 2017 5:27 PM GMT
anybody remember a horse called doulab it got me out of trouble one ebor meeting must have been 30 years ago
sure pat eddery rode it ps there was a very very long stewards enq
I think waiting for the result I aged ten years
one of the good days at York don't seem to have many there these days.
have a nice evening
Report ged December 12, 2017 5:32 PM GMT
He didn't win as a 2yo. His first run as a 3yo was in a mile maiden at Wolverhampton - he was 3rd, ridden by Tommy Gosling, so he would have known something of him when he came to train him.
Report ged December 12, 2017 5:34 PM GMT
^my last post was about Traitors Gate.

I think I was at York when Doulab won. Must have been early 80s. Thomson-Jones/Hamdan I think.
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 5:45 PM GMT
Re Paul Tulk - A top apprentice.  I think his first major job was as (possibly junior) stable Jockey to the McApine family - about 27 different versions of the said Tartan for their racing colours.
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 5:51 PM GMT
Doulab - Decent class Hamdan 2yo in the 1984 season. I will post some stuff later.
Report ged December 12, 2017 5:52 PM GMT
blackbarn - I reckon your uncle Jack could have had a crack at Traitors Gate. He won a couple of 5f sprints as a 3yo (including beating Granville Greta at Sandown), but then lost his form as a 4yo, and was running in sellers as a 5yo, and won one at Lewes, where he was bought in for 110 guineas.
Report ronnie rails December 12, 2017 5:53 PM GMT
ged it was arab owned I think it was the one who died a good few years ago
thought a scott trained it
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 5:58 PM GMT
Ronnie if you are talking about Doulab, it was defo Hamdan al Maktoum, not he who died earlier (Maktoum al Maktoum) and as posted by Ged was trained by H T-J
Report ronnie rails December 12, 2017 6:02 PM GMT
I was mistaken thanks for your help
ps did pat ride it and was it the gimcrack
have a nice evening
Report blackbarn December 12, 2017 6:07 PM GMT
Ged - Re Traitors Gate, do you have a date for that Lewes win?  Even I might have been their if it was Sussex fortnightGrin
Report ged December 12, 2017 6:18 PM GMT
Monday May 28, 1962. Breasley rode 3 winners.


Loni - Breasley
Traitors Gate - Gosling
Foolhardy - Breasley
Set Tradition - Lindley
Canadair - J Wilson
Margo's Pal - Breasley
Report Cork Langer December 12, 2017 6:20 PM GMT
Ronnie it was indeed the 84 Gimcrack, was ridden by the very capable somewhat maligned by some Tony Murray, that day they beat Bassenthwaite by a neck
Report ged December 12, 2017 6:22 PM GMT
It looks to me like he had a spell off the track for a couple of years, and when he returned, he was trained by Gosling, who won a few races with him as a 9, 10 and 11 yo, including one (a non-seller) at Newbury at 25/1 ridden by Tommy Carter. Before that, he was with Ashworth, but I don't have the complete picture.
Report ged December 12, 2017 6:24 PM GMT
Tony Murray rode Traitors Gate to what was probably his final win on June 12, 1968 at Yarmouth. (11/4 fav)
Report ronnie rails December 12, 2017 6:25 PM GMT
Cork langer
thank you 33 years ago I must be getting old
have a good evening
Report ged December 12, 2017 6:52 PM GMT
...and to answer workrider's post, at long last....

Traitors Gate won the 7.10 at Brighton on Monday June 16, 1966 (the day before Royal Ascot), at 11/2, ridden by Duncan Keith. It was a mile seller, and he beat 100/7 Bridal Veil, ridden by Roy Dingwall, and 100/30 Venture Boy, ridden by L Piggott, who had been beaten on a 10/11 in the opener, but otherwise didn't make the frame at the meeting. Ron Hutchinson rode 3 winners; Breasley rode 2 winners and 2 seconds. Bill Williamson was also there. Not a bad array of jockeys for a Monday night.
Report workrider December 12, 2017 6:53 PM GMT
Ged, I'm nearly sure its sp was 11/2 maybe I'm wrong, the date I had was around 67/68 and a midweek meeting.
Report GLASGOWCALLING December 12, 2017 6:54 PM GMT
remember standing in a dangerously full betting shop on the outskirts of southampton cheering on bill wightmans " flying nelly "

winning the cambridgeshire, bill trained at lower upham about 10 miles outside southampton, just found out she was the dam of

" further flight "  !!    marvelous thing is google.  Happy
Report onthejim December 12, 2017 7:17 PM GMT
Yes i think that is the one Ribero .A pal gave me a tip for Southwark Star in Lincoln(76?) ,had 50p ew, not backed Lincoln winner since!  A couple more old favs, Idiots Delight, Lottogift, and Kas, think latter won Phillip Cornes Golden Hurdle Final under Kevin Gray, was working for Ronnies firm at time and delighted to say they got hit pretty hard locally.
Report dambuster December 12, 2017 7:43 PM GMT
i remember having the flu when i was about 18 and got my 16 year old brother to go round to Bloxhams in east london, to back Von Trappe ew at 28/1 for the coral hurdle final at chelt ( i think), he wouldn't go in case they asked his age, i eventually said id have £6 ew instead of £5 ew, and he could have the extra £1 ew if he tried,
he tried and got on, and it won...Happy happy memories..
Report sageform December 12, 2017 8:05 PM GMT
Nice to see a mention of Heighlin, a long price winner of the Triumph before reaching group class on the flat. Sad to read that Collier Bay has died at 27.
Report dunlaying December 12, 2017 8:09 PM GMT
Flying Wild
Fair Astronomer
Grey Of Falloden

Brig would know the last named very well I guess.
Report isleham December 12, 2017 9:03 PM GMT
one of my first good winners was Knotty Pine in the Ebor..i was a student so must have been early 70s. backed him at 8/1 for 20 quid so big win when on a £300 Grant a year. think it won in a 4 horse photo..great memories
Report Cymro December 12, 2017 9:20 PM GMT
From my short trousered days

Rondetto. No more to be said. A legend.

From my University Days- Bronowski (a flat horse, 1981, no idea who trained it. Lost most of my termly grant on him).

From my fledgling jumps betting days- Aardwolf (trained by Charlie Brooks: once saw him in a match at Bangor; I think the other horse fell really early, but he still beat the course record by 3 seconds- could have been anything, but sadly didn't train on).

In my middle years- Suny Bay (probably my fav horse of all time) and Nick Dundee (the Gold Cup winner that never was, but should have been. The old chestnut about how far he would have beaten Looks Like Trouble in that RSA chase is always there, but he was cantering all over the next year's GC winner like nothing I've ever seen. But you have to jump them, and he didn't).

Oh- and Monsignor. My first ever 100-1 winner (ante post). He's apparently looking good on the gallops and might be OK for a run at Wincanton on Boxing Day :-)

In my older years- Moscow Flyer. The finest chaser I've ever seen in the flesh. Don't think I'll ever experience a thrill like the 2004 Tingle Creek, despite not having a bet in the race. Without doubt the best race I've ever seen. Ever.
Report differentdrum December 12, 2017 9:39 PM GMT
Cymro, I am probably as biased as you are in the opposite direction as Looks Like Trouble was one of my all time favourites. Rather than making an assumption about what would have happened a long way from home have a look at how many times Nick Dundee actually won at even three miles and what distance he was running over when they tried to bring him back. He was a non-stayer who would now be a Ryanair horse. I doubt whether he would have got within ten lengths of Looks Like Trouble. Many horses can go from cantering to nothing in a few strides at Cheltenham. The horse I mentioned earlier in this thread was one of them. Had he stayed sound I think Looks Like Trouble would have won three Gold Cups. He was the perfect horse for that race because he jumped and stayed.
Report casemoney December 13, 2017 1:17 AM GMT
Greatest Race in My history  NH , can only be Red Rum v Crisp   ,what an unbelievable performance by Crisp Shocked

The weight he was giving away and the Then Circuit Plain

He beat Rummy easily at Doncaster the Following year would Imagine the Weights were a Little different Grin
Report sageform December 13, 2017 8:13 AM GMT
Rondetto. Ridden in most of his races by John Haine who I knew since childhood. He was always convinced that he would have won the Foinavon National but he was one of the first to be unseated when the loose horse ran across the whole field.
Report blackbarn December 13, 2017 10:41 AM GMT
That loose horse was approprately named Popham Down.
Report sageform December 13, 2017 11:20 AM GMT
Popham Down on which Johnnie Haine won the Scottish National at Bogside in 1964! Just looked it up and was surprised to see that it was trained by Fulke Walwyn who Johnnie didn't ride for much. Another Grand National and Scottish National winner that sticks in my mind is Little Polveir. I owned a share in a horse called James Hunt with Jim Old way back in the day and after winning 3 novice chases we turned up at Chepstow confident of making it 4 despite having a large winners penalty. One of our opponents was a maiden called Little Polveir with a string of zeros and letters in its form and at a very long price. It proceeded to make all and beat us 25 lengths. The rest as they say is history.
Report dambuster December 13, 2017 11:25 AM GMT
My fav race of all time is the 1981 Whitbread won by Diamond edge, a great race
Report stewarty b December 13, 2017 12:09 PM GMT
I could go further back but mid 80s I backed Ezzoud (spelling) at 40s to win a big race at York. (Stoute and Swinburn) (would it have been the Dante?) Maybe not when I think about it but someone will know. Anyways I did an EW at 40s and stuck in Cumbrian Waltzer in the sprint the same day at 7s or 8s for an EW double. Ezzoud won at 28s IIRC and I'm waiting for Cumbrian Waltzer for the biggest pick up in my life at the time.

Finished down the field trained by you know who...
Report stewarty b December 13, 2017 12:11 PM GMT
** Ridden by M.Birch.
Report stewarty b December 13, 2017 12:31 PM GMT
17 Aug 1993
Juddmonte International Stakes Class A (Group 1)
(Class 1) (3yo+) (1m2f85yds) 1m2½f OMS Good To Soft
1st £156,935 2nd £57,665 3rd £27,332.50 4th £10,787.50 5th £3,893.75
My Ratings
POS. (DRAW)   
AGE    WGT    OR    TS    RPR    MR   
1 (3)

Runner Jacket
0. Ezzoud (IRE) 28/1
W R Swinburn
Sir Michael Stoute
4    96 v    –    103    121    –   
Held up in midfield, ridden 3f out, switched 2f out, stayed on strongly under pressure to catch leader well inside final furlong
2 (4)

Runner Jacket
0. Sabrehill (USA) 7/4F
M Roberts
Sir Henry Cecil
3    812     –    101    119    –   
Tracked leaders, going well, led on bit 2f out, soon quickened clear, headed and no extra well inside final furlong
3 (8)
5 [6½]
Runner Jacket
0. Spartan Shareef (IRE) 50/1
Ray Cochrane
Clive Brittain
4    96     –    93    112    –   
Always prominent, ridden along 3f out, kept on same pace final 2f
4 (10)
1½ [8]
Runner Jacket
0. Revelation (IRE) 9/1
A Cruz
Richard Hannon Snr
3    812     –    91    110    –   
Always prominent, ridden over 3f out, hung left 2f out, stayed on inside final furlong
5 (5)
2 [10]
Runner Jacket
0. White Muzzle 2/1
John Reid
Peter Chapple-Hyam
3    812     –    88    108    –   
Always prominent, led over 4f out, ridden and headed 2f out, gradually weakened
6 (7)
1½ [11½]
Runner Jacket
0. Blues Traveller (IRE) 15/1
Mick Kinane
B W Hills
3    812     –    86    106    –   
Led until headed over 4f out, weakened under pressure 2f out
7 (2)
nk [11¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Tenby 15/2
Pat Eddery
Sir Henry Cecil
3    812     –    85    106    –   
Held up behind, effort on outside 3 1/2f out, edged left and no impression final 2f
8 (1)
2 [13¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Guado D'Annibale (IRE) 66/1
Darryll Holland
A Renzoni
4    96     –    82    104    –   
Behind, effort 4f out, no impression, beaten over 2f out
9 (9)
5 [18¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Environment Friend 28/1
George Duffield
N C Wright
5    96 v1    –    75    –    –   
Held up in rear, hampered over 6f out, soon driven along, no impression final 3f
10 (6)
15 [33¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Alhijaz 20/1
W Carson
John Dunlop
4    96     –    51    –    –   
Held up, behind and effort on outside over 3f out, soon beaten
11 (11)
8 [41¾]
Runner Jacket

0. Red Bishop (USA) 14/1
Frankie Dettori
John Gosden
5    96     –    38    –    –   
Held up in rear, ridden and some headway on outside 3 1/2f out, soon beaten and eased
11 ran Winning time: 2m 12.16s (slow by 3.16s) Total SP: 120%
1st owner: Maktoum Al Maktoum (Ezzoud) 1st breeder: T J Monaghan
2nd owner: Sheikh Mohammed (Sabrehill)
3rd owner: C T Olley (Spartan Shareef)
DBI (SP%): L [Stalls 1-4] 69 (44%) M [5-7] 39 (38%) H [8-11] 42 (18%)

Now I'm trying to figure out how I'm a few years out...
Report stewarty b December 13, 2017 12:37 PM GMT
17 Aug 1993
Eagle Lane Handicap Class C
(Class 3) (0-100, 3yo+) 6f Good To Soft
1st £12,622.50 2nd £3,780 3rd £1,815 4th £832.50
My Ratings
POS. (DRAW)   
AGE    WGT    OR    TS    RPR    MR   
1 (6)

Runner Jacket
0. How's Yer Father 8/1J
Alan Munro
Ron Hodges
7    811     79    70    85    –   
Always prominent, ridden to lead inside final furlong, ran on well, readily
2 (8)
Runner Jacket
0. Diet 25/1
J Marshall5
Linda Perratt
7    710 v    69    50    70    –   
Led, clear 2f out, headed and no extra inside final furlong
3 (14)
shd [2]
Runner Jacket
0. Margaret's Gift 25/1
John Carroll
J Berry
3    90     86    72    87    –   
Good speed in centre throughout, ridden 2f out, kept on well towards finish
4 (21)
hd [2¼]
Runner Jacket
0. Peerage Prince 25/1
N Kennedy3
Pat Mitchell
4    710 b    67    49    68    –   
Ridden along halfway, headway under pressure 1 1/2f out, stayed on strongly towards finish
5 (10)
½ [2¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Duplicity (IRE) 20/1
John Reid
L J Holt
5    100     96    80    96    –   
Headway under pressure 2f out, stayed on well inside final furlong
6 (3)
nk [3]
Runner Jacket
0. Nordan Raider 8/1J
Joe Fanning
M J Camacho
5    713     67    50    67    –   
Always in touch, effort and headway to chase leaders 1 1/2f out, unable to quicken inside final furlong
7 (1)
nk [3½]
Runner Jacket
0. Dominuet 14/1
Kevin Darley
John Spearing
8    913     95    77    95    –   
Mid-division, effort over 2f out, stayed on one pace inside final furlong
8 (9)
hd [3½]
Runner Jacket
0. Sagebrush Roller 20/1
George Duffield
J W Watts
5    90     82    64    82    –   
Headway over 2f out, stayed on well inside final furlong , nearest finish
9 (12)
¾ [4¼]
Runner Jacket
0. Macs Maharanee 20/1
D Wright5
P S Felgate
6    810     83    58    82    –   
Behind, headway halfway, kept on well final furlong
10 (23)
2½ [6¾]
Runner Jacket
0. Master Planner 16/1
J D Smith7
C A Cyzer
4    91     90    57    –    –   
Chased leaders, ridden along well over 2f out, no extra approaching final furlong
11 (22)
2½ [9¼]
Runner Jacket
0. Cumbrian Waltzer 14/1
M Birch
M H Easterby
8    96     88    55    –    –   
Switched left start and held up, some headway over 2f out, never reached leaders
12 (5)
shd [9½]
Runner Jacket
0. Gilt Throne 12/1
Philip Robinson
Mark H Tompkins
6    89     77    44    –    –   
Chased leaders until ridden and weakened over 1f out
13 (7)
shd [9½]
Runner Jacket
0. Southern Memories (IRE) 16/1
A Cruz
Richard Hannon Snr
3    89 b    81    48    –    –   
Chased leaders 4f, soon lost place
14 (2)
¾ [10¼]
Runner Jacket
0. Densben 16/1
Kieren Fallon
Denys Smith
9    813     81    46    –    –   
In touch early, soon pushed along, no impression final 2f
15 (16)
hd [10½]
Runner Jacket
0. Macfarlane 10/1
W Carson
M J Fetherston-Godley
5    86     74    38    –    –   
Headway halfway, soon chasing leaders in centre, slightly hampered 2f out, weakened over 1f out
16 (13)
1½ [12]
Runner Jacket
0. Bertie Wooster 20/1
Frankie Dettori
Pat Murphy
10    88     76    37    –    –   
In touch until ridden and weakened well over 1f out
17 (4)
shd [12]
Runner Jacket
0. The Auction Bidder 40/1
S Perks
Reg Hollinshead
6    89     77    37    –    –   
Behind, effort and some headway 2 1/2f out, soon weakened
18 (19)
2 [14]
Runner Jacket
0. So Intrepid (IRE) 12/1
W R Swinburn
P W Harris
3    812     84    39    –    –   
Driven along and outpaced before halfway, soon beaten
19 (17)
1½ [15½]
Runner Jacket
0. Sir Joey (USA) 20/1
J Williams
Pat Murphy
4    87     75    26    –    –   
Soon behind and pushed along, beaten over 2f out
20 (18)
1½ [17]
Runner Jacket
0. White Shadow (IRE) 12/1
Pat Eddery
Roger Charlton
3    94     90    40    –    –   
Effort under pressure in midfield when hampered over 2f out, soon behind and eased
21 (20)
½ [17½]
Runner Jacket
0. Petite-D-Argent 12/1
T Quinn
J Berry
4    94     86    35    –    –   
Raced stands side, good speed until hung badly left from halfway, not recover
22 (11)
Runner Jacket
0. Another Lane 33/1
Jimmy Quinn
J Wharton
6    82     70    18    –    –   
Chased leaders centre, hampered over 2f out, soon behind
23 (15)
Runner Jacket
0. Panikin 50/1
S D Williams3
J Wharton
5    92     87    31    –    –   
Soon ridden along, outpaced final 2f
23 ran Winning time: 1m 13.09s (slow by 3.29s) Total SP: 136%
1st owner: Unity Farm Holiday Centre Ltd (How's Yer Father) 1st breeder: Lord Edwin McAlpine
2nd owner: Mrs M S J Clydesdale (Diet)
3rd owner: Mrs T G Holdcroft (Margaret's Gift)
DBI (SP%): L [Stalls 1-8] 69 (40%) M [9-15] 49 (21%) H [16-23] 32 (39%)

Got the price wrong there but knew it was the same day.
Report BARROWBOY December 13, 2017 3:28 PM GMT
first racehorse i was aware of was called operatic society,my dad used to back it every time it ran & remember my mum complaining once when he was late meeting us for the cinema because hed gone somewhere to get a bet on it.the horse was a brighton specialist they have a race in the summer named after him,won 30 races all told including the 1959 november hcap when he won the 49 runner race despite unseating the rider & bolting for a mile before the race.
Report madhatters December 13, 2017 8:34 PM GMT
Stalbridge Colonist
Summat abt a grey
A la Dessie

Class hurdlers - Bula, Lanzarote, Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon
Taking on the Irish invasion of Cof E & Monks

Red Rum - the summit
Report ronnie rails December 13, 2017 8:43 PM GMT
class hurdlers this horse would have been up with them

have a good evening
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 18, 2018 9:59 PM GMT
fouraces 11 Dec 17 08:23 Joined: 27 Oct 07 | Topic/replies: 1,337 | Blogger: fouraces's blog
First horse I really remember from my childhood was a horse called Pentland Javelin trained by Reg Hollinshead. Had a £1 on it when it won at 20-1. Come to think of it that was my last winner.

Was that the horse who won a 2yo maiden at Newmarket at 33/1? It's a race which has always stuck in my mind, in that it was the first time I realized how important racecourse experience is for a horse - Pentland Javelin (if it was indeed that particular R Hollinshead juvenile) was the only horse in the race with a previous run, its form figure being 0.
Report blackbarn March 18, 2018 10:52 PM GMT
Pentland Javelin who won at Newmarket on its second appearance was 2nd first time out.  Not sure where, we would need ged or onlooker for that detail
Report roadrunner46 March 18, 2018 11:20 PM GMT
edredon blue thats one of my favourite old time horses, 47 runs over the fences and 24 wins
Report geoff m March 19, 2018 1:20 AM GMT
The 1st horses i was aware of was around the late 60s(only 11 or 12 @ the time)and for some reason where all David Mould/Peter Cazalet from memory dont know why.
But allways stuck in me head Escalus/Black Magic and Different Class
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 19, 2018 9:57 AM GMT
Thanks, Blackbarn. Evidently it didn't stick in my mind well enough to remember what it had actually done first time out.

Maybe there was another Hollinshead 2yo named after a potato which won a Newmarket 2yo maiden at 33s? Unlikely though. As one current pundit used to say back then: all trainers with the initials RH are the same - about 300 horses in training and three winners a season (he was thinking of the likes of R Hollinshead, R Hodges and, at that time, R Hannon).
Report ged March 19, 2018 10:02 AM GMT
Pentland Javelin won at 20/1 (though there was a 20p rule 4) in an 8-runner field at Newmarket, with a '2' against his name. All the others were debutants, one being The Noble Player, who went on to run 2nd in both the Chesham and Washington Singer at 2, won the Heron Stakes at 3, before being shipped to the US and running well in some decent 8/9 furlong handicaps at 4 and 5 for John Gosden, who was then training in California.

Pentland Javelin had been 2nd in the 2nd 2yo race of the season at Doncaster (the Grey Friars; Brondesbury had won the Brocklesby). The reason he went off at 20s at Newmarket was that the intended 5-runner Grey Friars had been reduced to 3 runners, and Pentland was beaten 3 lengths by the outsider of the remaining 3, a 12/1 shot; the fav had been W/D, so presumably the form was considered next-to-worthless, but, he'd had a race.

The Javelin then got beat a few times, before winning again at 20/1 (outsider of 6), this time in the Strathclyde Stakes at Ayr in July, so he was keeping decent northern 2yo company. He then blew out a couple of times before winning a Redcar nursery in late Sept off 2nd top weight at 12/1.
Report Andrew in Sweden March 19, 2018 10:34 AM GMT
Dr Crippen   
10 Dec 17 17:35


I certainly remember this one, a prolific winner, but my best recollection is he was one leg of a winning 'Canadian' bet that resulted in a good payout. If memory serves me well, Titus Oates was amongst the 5 winners. I guess it was in the early 70's.
Report mini me March 19, 2018 2:38 PM GMT
I always used to look forward to the Brocklesbury and I have memories of a horse called Spring Cabbage winning at 100/8.

I wonder if my memory is accurate...

I am also trying to think of the name of the Ebor winner which I backed in the betting shop when I was about 15. I hadn't got the bottle to tell my dad I'd had a bet and certainly hadn't got the bottle to draw. I can't remember what happened.

Happy Days!
Report blackbarn March 19, 2018 3:41 PM GMT
mini me - If Spring Cabbage won the Brocklesbury it would have been in 1963. I do not have a record of that win but ged or onlooker will. Whatever he turned into a really good sprinter for Harry Blackshaw (Orange, Brown braid!). Seasons 66 to 68 he ran 39 times, winning 9 and being placed in 12, acquiring the Timeform epithet - "a really honest and hardy individual". He raced on until he was 12, or maybe 13.
Report ged March 19, 2018 3:52 PM GMT
Spring Cabbage made his debut in the first race of the 1963 Grand national meeting at Liverpool, the Croxtexth Plate (worth £306 to the winner) for 2yos. He was unplaced, and trained at that time by Joe Hartigan. The 2nd race on the card was the first running of the Schweppes Gold Trophy (worth £7,825 2s 6d to the winner; £200 less if ridden by an amateur - which it wasn't, because it was won by the perfectly-plotted-up Rosyth, the highest-rated of the 13 on bottom weight of 10-0 - there were 41 runners, top weight 12-7).

Spring Cabbage (well named, being by March Past out of Ma Chou ('chou' is French for cabbage)) was still going at the age of 13, usually running in sellers, and trained for most of his career by Harry Blackshaw.
Report ged March 19, 2018 3:57 PM GMT
*I meant usually running in sellers when he was 13. He was better earlier in his life, as you would expect.
Report ged March 19, 2018 4:00 PM GMT
I think he wore pale blinkers. (b/w TV then)
Report blackbarn March 19, 2018 4:04 PM GMT
ged - the good Captain Henry knew a bit about handicaps. 28/1Cool. As you will know, Rosyth won it the following year off just 2lb higher at 15/1.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 19, 2018 4:31 PM GMT
Many thanks to ged and blackbarn for putting me right about Pentland Javelin's first run (and his SP at Newmarket). The gist of it seems to have stuck in my head correctly: a bit of experience, however moderate, goes a long way in 2yo races.
Report ged March 19, 2018 4:34 PM GMT
Spring Cabbage won a selling handicap as a 3yo at Doncaster in Sep 1964 (at 10/1), and Harry Blackshaw bought him out of it for 575 guineas, and trained him thereafter. Incidenatlly, Harry had won the Croxteth Plate (with Shantam) in which the Cabbage made his racecourse debut.
Report ged March 19, 2018 4:38 PM GMT
Pentland Javelin sounds like a good name for a speedy 2yo - he was by champion sprinter Solinus, out of a mare by Prince Tenderfoot, who was a very fast 2yo trained by Paddy Prendergast.

In fact, Pentland Javelin is a variety of potato.
Report raspberrybottom March 19, 2018 9:30 PM GMT
Anyone remember who trained one called Hilda's Hurricane? Mid to late 70's.
Report blackbarn March 19, 2018 10:25 PM GMT
T A Waugh.  I think that Waugh was Alec but there were loads of them. Anyway Hilda was a 2yo in the 1970 season. "Fine big colt" who failed to place in five runnings. Gelded and three wins, two places from 8 runs at three. Five places from 7 runs at four. Went to Steve Morant and ran twice unplaced at five.  Is your recollection of him over hurdles/fences?
Report onlooker March 19, 2018 10:27 PM GMT
^  Stan Ogden

Seriously, though - had to look it up, as it did not spring readilly to mind  ... and no wonder with a name like it  - but it was ...

S imon/Stephen? Morant - Upper Lambourn.

Apologies to the wife if it was her horse.  Happy
Report onlooker March 19, 2018 10:29 PM GMT
^ blackbarn, even better - I was working my way back from 1978 - when I got 1974 - and the National Hunt trainer.
Report ribero1 March 19, 2018 11:15 PM GMT
Reg Hollinshead used to bet with Laddies on course,used to have pony ew on nearly everything he ran,sometimes upping to 50 and 100 would be his max,happy days.
Report salmon spray March 19, 2018 11:26 PM GMT
I'm afraid as a kid I did the normal trick of following a lot of greys.
Nicolaus Silver was the first. I also remember being ecstatic when the tearaway Richard of Bordeaux made all in the Mackeson ( then run over 2m ).
Report onlooker March 20, 2018 12:10 AM GMT
ribero1 - That merely confirms my long-held belief that Reg Hollinshead was just a 'run and hope' merchant.

He must have gone a long-time between lunches.

Rather like Mark Johnston, nowadays, you never knew whether one of his was going to run well, or - much more often - run awfully.

So - just like Johnston you could never back one of his - nor would you ever want to - But were always wary when you had sorted something else out, and gone for a 'big one' - that along would come one of his his a load of coconuts against it's name, and chin you. Cry

Just hope that we do not have to wait as long as Reg went on for - in order for Johnston to jack it in ... and then there is Reg Mark2 - Milton, aswell.
Report ph. March 20, 2018 3:03 AM GMT
Sula Bula, Earls Brig, Santon Brig, Pawneese, Wollow, Political Pop, Mrs McCardy, Captain Christie, Crisp, Zongalero, Churchtown Boy, Cima, Easter Eel, Fairy Footsteps, Grundy, Willie Wumpkins, Little Owl, Anaglogs Daughter, Little Bay,Twin Oaks, Sabin du Loir, Brondesbury, Provideo, John Cherry, Morgans Choice, Buzzards Bay, W Six Times, Winnie the Witch, Afzaal, Hieronymous, Corporal Clinger
Report ph. March 20, 2018 3:25 AM GMT
some as background noise around Grandparents before going to Highfield Rd from being a tiddler, others in my youth when we could go in the bookies at 15/16 and have a 10p yankee or 5 selections in fourfolds and acca for 20p's. Then we had a thing for Quinn/Cole/Salman on hitting 16 years of age from 83, Reach, Magic Ring, Addenbrooke, Salchow and Bonny Scot for the Major. OI Oyston and Boca Raton for Jack Berry. I've been doing this too long. The Hennessy I've always loved from Bachelors something or other, Approaching and winners backed in Burrough Hill Lad and Galway Blaze. Diamond Edge and the finish of all time with Special Cargo and perhaps Lettoch in the Whitbread. Then we get Lean Ar Aghaidh and Guy Landau. I can genuinely remember being excited at a young age watching Grundy/Bustino. I'm glad I've never tried to introduce this game to my children, its had many highs and lows but its a hard hard game.
Report ph. March 20, 2018 3:36 AM GMT
Rude not to mention Rogers Princess for the chaps in the Quadrant
Report ph. March 20, 2018 3:36 AM GMT
Rude not to mention Rogers Princess for the chaps in the Quadrant
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 9:21 AM GMT
Indeed onlooker,my favourite Reg horse was Ski's double,it was sort of Sea Pigeon lite,had a very good turn of foot but had to produced late and had if delivered too soon it could think it had done enough,remember the Rossington main in those days at Donny,Jonjo used to ride him but this day was on Cardinal Flower for Andy Scott,Scudamore rode Ski's and sauntered to the front far too early and with Jonjo knowing the horse he kept at Cardinal and chinned it in the last 50 yards,very frustrating,i was hoping it might turn up in the supreme but it ran in a handicap at Haydock with Jonjo back on and absolutely bolted up at a short price and then disappeared,think it came back after an absence and showed very little? might be wrong there though?
Report ged March 20, 2018 9:37 AM GMT
Reg did suddenly burst into form late one season when Remainder Man was a 2yo. Perhaps he had had a problem in the yard and they had been even more out of form than usual, and then came back in - who knows, but Swakara, for one, started winning, and I went to Haydock one afternoon and he had the first 3 on the card - Remainder Man winning his maiden being the middle one. I missed the first one  - a very non-descript thing - but backed the next 2. The 3rd one was Nice Value who was winning his 4th race in a row, I think. All a bit unusual for Reg, but he did have his days. The first 2 came up the stand rail, which was something Tony Ives did more than most in those days when the ground was soft, sometimes alone, and often to his benefit.
Report miprixabloater March 20, 2018 9:39 AM GMT
sparrow posting re. Towser Gosden in the early 50s he trained my

always favorite horse a handicapper by the name of Tintinabulam, this

horse done me numerous favours. ribero do you recall a day at Stockton

when I had a £100 e.w with Leslie when you were his floorman a horse

named Sandras Secret trained by Richard Whittaker it won by a long way

the price was around 20s turned out to be the best sprinter around.

Great days earning plenty and playing it up.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 20, 2018 9:40 AM GMT
Despite all that, Hollinshead did train Suluk.

No freezing cold January day of all-weather hurdling at Southwell was complete without Stuart Holder driving Steve Wynne(5) to the course and then betting £1,000 to £200 ON Suluk to canter home in the claiming hurdle, which he always did.

Year after year the thing would run up a sequence of half a dozen consecutive wins at long odds on while every other punter on the track was trying to warm up with a cup of tea.

The extraordinary thing was that it was an entire too. I don't think anything it went on to sire ever even got placed.
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 10:34 AM GMT
Hi Miprix,not sure about Sandras Secret being the best sprinter around? but remember it won a nice few,it was owned by a publican called James Dooler not too far from where my parents lived and he ended up training a few himself for a short time maybe including Sandra's?
There is quite an amusing tale re Sandra's I know of,it was due to run at the backend of the season at Ponty and Piggott was chasing the championship,Dooler told Whittaker he wanted Lester to ride the horse,Whittaker said i'm not asking him (don't really get that?) so Dooler who to put it mildly said was no shrinking violet said no prob i'll ask him,Piggott replied "that will be a monkey" to which Dooler replied i'll do better than that you can have the prize money if it wins.Lester duly got it home at about 15/2 -7/1 ish I think,Dooler backed it and brought the whole family and his own photographer! So everybody happy! although the ironical thing is its the one time Lester may have ridden it for nothing as he was desperate for decent rides as he was going for the champiuonship,but then again maybe not!
Good to hear fro you miprix,hope you are well.
Report miprixabloater March 20, 2018 10:45 AM GMT
ribero To tell you the truth I am cheesed off with Hospital appointments.

I must be wrong but I would have had a bet that Sandras Secret either won

at Royal Ascot or in France, age catches up with one, keep well and keep

Report blackbarn March 20, 2018 12:03 PM GMT
Ribero - Sandra's Secret
If Piggott rode it her it would have been one of her wins at 3 in 1980. She failed to win at 2, 4, or 5. At three, she won five races from 16 runs and ended up with a Timeform rating of 88, and in four of her wins she was ridden by Nicky Connorton.  She never won at Pontefract, but won twice at Stockton (Miprix's bet!!!) and once each at Doncaster, York and Warwick.
Report ged March 20, 2018 12:07 PM GMT
She won at Warwick in October 1980 ridden by Piggott - at 7/1 - so that was probably the race. Carson beat Pigoott by 9 that year, so at the time of the race the title would have been a battle between them. Garraton trained her at 4, and Huffer at 5, though that may not be the whole picture.
Report ged March 20, 2018 12:11 PM GMT
James Dooler seemed to find god at some point in his life....
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 12:33 PM GMT
That will be it Ged cheers,maybe she ran at Ponty after and that's where I heard the story,Mr dooler was certainly a character.
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 12:44 PM GMT
Anything on Ski's Double,Ged or Blackbarn?
Report ged March 20, 2018 1:36 PM GMT
Sandra's Secret's hot spell came in June. She broke her maiden at Stockton at 20/1 on the Tuesday (the day before the Derby at Epsom - she'd been unplaced a fortnight earlier in the 9.05 maiden at Ponty under Jock Skilling). She turned out 3 days later at Catterick, and was beaten half a length by spittin Mick's Dutch Girl (with the 3rd 3 lengths back). Then 11 days later, on another Tuesday at Stockton (first day of Ascot) she won again, as 5/1 jt fav. Then she won again at the end of the month at Doncaster.
Report ged March 20, 2018 2:25 PM GMT
As for Ski's Double, you're about right. The report on the Rossington Main said that Cardinal Flower didn't jump the 2nd last too well, so maybe Scu felt he had to go on then and try to win the race. Cardinal won by a head, with the 3rd 10 away. And yes, Ski's then won at Haydock, as a 7yo, and was then off for nearly 2 years. He was entered in the Schweppes as both an 8yo and 9yo, but didn't run, and eventually re-appeared as a 9yo against See You Then in a conditions race at Doncaster. He made little show, and I think that was his only run that season. He had been entered in the Champion Hurdle, but was withdrawn before the 4-day stage (50/1 at the time). 2 years later (then 11yo) he was unplaced in the County Hurdle at 50/1 for Ray Peacock, with form figures of P0/F against his name for that and the previous season, and that was probably his lot.

Reg would seem to have though he had potentialover hurdles from the outset, because his very first run over hurdles was at Haydock as a 4yo in a 4-runner conditions race against Gaye Chance of Rimell's, and Vicomte of Jimmy Fitz's. He was last of 4 at 25/1, and had just one more run that season before giving hurdles a miss for a couple of years.
Report miprixabloater March 20, 2018 2:33 PM GMT
ged re. Sandras Secret and Jock Skilling on the day I had a £100 ew

with Leslie Steele I also had a £100 ew with Ladbrokes, around that

time I bought a horse named Kilburn Boy from Jock that won and was

placed several times.  Happy days.
Report ronnie rails March 20, 2018 2:55 PM GMT

nice to see you posting

regarding the 100ew with lads, who was the rep then, was it Lyall? seems a lifetime ago

re hospital visits are you at the Freemans, regards Ronnie
Report miprixabloater March 20, 2018 3:06 PM GMT
Hullo Ronnie Yes Lyall was the rep and I think Brian was clerking.

I am an outpatient at both the Freeman and the R.V.I.

Best of luck.
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 4:08 PM GMT
Thanks Ged,appreciate that.
Report blackbarn March 20, 2018 4:11 PM GMT
Ribero - did you want any stuff on Ski's flat career?   It was not very inspiring and he must have been on the verge of a Timeform squiggle at times.
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 4:49 PM GMT
Thanks Blackbarn but it was as a hurdler I remember him and from what you say its no surprise! did he win on the flat?
Report blackbarn March 20, 2018 5:07 PM GMT
Yes Ribero - Won one at wolves aged 4 - ran 23 times at ages three/four (unraced at two) - placed 10 times!!   Timeform said "finds little off the bridle". Ran 19 times aged five, 4 wins (incl 1 disq) - Timeform still said "finds little off the bridle" and "has shown a tendency to hang".  Ran 15 times at six - 1 win - same comments.
Report ribero1 March 20, 2018 6:17 PM GMT
Thanks again Blackbarn.
Report sixtwosix March 20, 2018 6:23 PM GMT
Young Inca , grey sprinter regular in the handicaps ..........used to walk in the stalls without a handler.
Report blackbarn March 20, 2018 7:11 PM GMT
Young Inca - Remember him well. Late developer who improved gradually till he was about 7, then deteriorated equally gradually till he was 12 or so. Standing dish at Goodwood. He seemed to win there every year for ages, and was often placed if he didnt win.  Memory probably playing tricks - I'll look him up but that's going to be a lot of data to go through.
Report onlooker March 20, 2018 8:23 PM GMT
Young Inca was a Grey - if I remember correctly -

West-Country horse - trained by Les Cottrell
Report screaming from beneaththewaves March 21, 2018 12:21 AM GMT
I know LG Cottrell kept himself to himself, and famously never went racing, but he was always referred to as Gerald Cottrell.

Young Inca survived a desperate attempt at turning him into a hurdler as a 12yo, with connections finally calling it a day after a fall at Exeter. He finally enjoyed a very long retirement turned out with foals at the yard of Stuart Kittow (Cottrell's son-in-law, who also trains in the Blackdowns, on the Devon/Somerset border). Lived to be 30 in the end.
Report onlooker March 21, 2018 1:10 AM GMT
Indeed - screaming ... Must have subconsciously got him transposed to fellow, "West-Country."  trainer ... LES Kennard.   Happy
Report Deptford March 23, 2018 3:11 PM GMT
Just has a pleasant hour on Youtube, Chief Singer, Never So Bold, Committed, Chief Singer, Never So Bold, Committed, good old GG
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