Pre race i backed Fujin and I put an IR keep bet, end up down on the bet

Eh?

Are you sure?

Reduction Factor does not apply to In-Running bets - Placed AFTER the Off - BUT -

Reduction Factor IS applied to 'KEEP LAYS' - Otherwise, unaware EARLY betting  people, would be shafted.

4.4 was a KKEP bet before it went 'in play'

they never took the w/d horse out of the market til after the race

* KEEP

What race are you talking about?

2:30 Brighton - FAV Withdrawn at the Start.

imo reduction factor should have been applied to keep bet, not my fault they didn't take the fav out of the market before in running

In my opinion - I entirely agree with you.

After all, they have managed to apply the Reduction Factor to your, also, PRE-race placed Win bet.

I seriously think you should be chasing this up with them.... either on Twitter, or perhaps better still - 0344 871 0000 - Option 4.

If the case is that ... For the application of a Reduction Factor to a LAY bet to be at the RANDOM WHIM of when a Withdrawn horse is taken out of a Betfair market is both ridiculous and very disturbing.

This is how the non withdrawal of a NR from IR works

Has been for ages

Has happened to me a few times

Queried BF NONHELPDESK but got nowhere

Does seem ridiculus but it is what it is

If the withdrawal is made prior to IR your KEEP bet is reduced accordingly

A member of the forum had the same  bet the same a few  years back and the in running was cancelled as the reduction factor was greater than 2.3%, Ask the service desk about that as I seen the bet.

Yes - I feel sure that I have seen something like  that in the Rules - Will look later.

I just confirmed about the bet, he bet the horse same as you pre race and laid it off in running at 1.1 , the bet was cancelled even although the inrunning betting hit 1.08.

I emailed them straight after settlement but yet to get a reply

Let us know how you get on BIG BOSS as the figures were bet at 5/2 for £500 bet place for in running was 1.1 to £1500, the in running was cancelled due to what was stated before (the reduction factor was bigger than 2.3%, therefore going by the rules they stated your in running bet should have been declared void.

Big Boss i have the day date and bet number of the situation explained above if you require , The actual bet was back £500 @3.25 , lay £500 @1.1 the reduction factor was 27.8% and the lay bet was voided.

Why don't they just do away with "in running"................and horrible on course purveyors..

I had to chase up yet again as a promise to email me last night with a resolution failed to arrive.

They have just got back to me via email about the 2.30pm Brighton...........

My back of 9.6, placed at 2.23pm, reduced to a price 4.15 because of a 56% reduction factor will STAND.

My lay pre race and keep bet of 4.4, placed at 2.24pm will STAND.

So I ended up down across the 2 wagers struck.

dumplingheid, could you PM those bet details to me, thank you

Big Boss,

Something is not right, surely?

skiptoomaloumacari
Date Joined:    24 Nov 10
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04 Sep 17 10:47 Joined: 24 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 688 | Blogger: skiptoomaloumacari's blog
Why don't they just do away with "in running"

I would have preferred a separate market for in running (rather than switching the pre race market at the off) but it was never going to happen

Hi BIG BOSS i have sent you the email sent to betfair im trying to get the other correspondence

bet no 2078646890



Sir/Madam,
                  I placed two bets on tonight 5th July 2012 for the 2105 race from Newbury. The first bet was  on misdemeanour £500 at 3.25 and the 2nd bet was a lay bet on the same horse of 1.1 to £500 to cover my stake (due to incompetance of the jockey) there was a non runner with a reduction factor of 27.8% in the race, as I was unable to view the race due to commitments I feel that my bet should not have been lapsed by you instead it should have been kept at the 1.1 or 1.1 minus the reduction factor 27.8%  thus a figure of 1.07 to give all parties a fairness due to the scenario of the withdrawn horse. The lay bet was laid in good faith through the keep button on the betfair site and its not as if there were any horses in the race odds on whereby the 1.1 would have looked out of place. It makes a mockery of the keep button on this situation as no matter what as soon as i clicked the keep button I was in a lose lose situation,I will not be the only one who  feels your rules are not fair on this circumstance and they certainly need looking at due to this happening as this problem should never have come to light its only the unfairness of the rules that has highlighted the problem.


                                                                                            REGARDS

thanks, I have replied via PM

from the Betfair Ts and C's that they emailed to me...........

When there is a late withdrawal, Betfair may not have time to remove the non-runner from the market before turning it in-play. In such cases if Betfair is able to determine that the late withdrawal is a material runner (i.e. a selection with a reduction factor of approx 20% or greater in the win market), it reserves the right to cancel ALL lay 'keep' bets (in both the win and ‘to be placed’ markets) before turning the market in-play. If Betfair does not cancel lay 'keep' bets in the case of a late withdrawal (for example, it may not be possible to know which horse is withdrawn, at the time of the off), any such bets placed before the off and matched in-play will remain at the original selected price. This means that those lay 'keep' bets will not be subject to any reduction factor which as a result of the late withdrawal, will be applied after the completion of the race to bets matched at or before the 'off'.

I hope you get the answer you require as one of us must be right either that they are playing with two different set of rules, There was no reply and and there was a phone called made to betfair and it was then they stated the rules, the said horse above hit 1.03 in running. so there was very little that could be done at the time as it was in the rules. Now they have shifted something therefore one of us must get the benefit of there own rules and regulations.
BETFAIR NOT TO PAY ANYBODY 1/100
BETAFIR TO PAY BIG BOSS 100/1
BETFAIR TO PAY ON THE ABOVE BET 100/1

so the moral of the story is do not put on early bird wagers on the exchange with keep bets that feature any kind of odds on favourite if you are not going to online when they load the stalss or line up at the tape, you will be running a tightrope whereby the markets are skewed against you.

absolutely crazy rule imho.

This situation can lead to some IR value for backers by the look of it. Correct ?

so the moral of the story is do not put on early bird wagers on the exchange with keep bets that feature any kind of odds on favourite.

if you are not going to be online when they load the stalls or line up at the tape, you will be running a tightrope whereby the markets are skewed against you.

absolutely crazy rule imho.

This situation can lead to some IR value for backers by the look of it. Correct ?

ABSOFECKINGLUTELY

My 4.4 would have been hoovered up in a heartbeat as it was already bigger than the Betfair SP as market turned in play

They have won in both our cases , both of us were on lose lose situation ........... and some people think they can win on here.

it reserves the right to cancel ALL lay 'keep' bets .......................... it gets you everytime

BB , glad you brought this up. Hope you didn't lose a big amount. But people must have been stung for large amounts in the past. And you could have been laying at more than 4.4.

ive been with Betfair since inception, I originally signed up to flutter.com when it first opened up.

I have basically told them if they don't pay me my profit with reduction factors applied to both bets then to shut the account, if I don't post a reply, you obviously know what they have decided to do.

there are plenty of other companies require your business , that was the same as the guy whos bet that was ............flutter

dumpling , surely it wasn't the case that your bet was cancelled. How could they do that ? Are they saying it wasn't matched ?

18 years or so, never known it as bad on here the last year or so, this is the cherry on the icing on the cake

my confidence levels are now zero in terms of Betfair's ability to handle any kind of suspension or manageability of pre-race or in running exchange markets

the levels of automated bots and lack of liquidity just adds fuel to the fire

maybe not a bad time to be calling it a day on here

No they cancelled/lAPSED the bet, before the race turned to in running, the bet was put in at 1.1 and the horse hit 1.03 in running and get beaten.

I know the person who struck the bet shut his account down, ive seen this coming for many years my last bet on here was lord samposin against an odds on shot the jockey on lord samposin received a 30 day suspension for pulling it and the winning jockey of the race retired.
And there are some people think they can win at the game.

So if your lay had been 1.7 the same thing would have happened ?  If so would this still happen today ?

unknown I know it happened then and there hasn't been any rules changes since. So given that I dare say the same thing could happen again todaY

they have rang me personally and paid me out in full, citing a goodwill gesture

it was the principle not the money for me, just cause something is shoehorned into their t's and c's when you are not looking doesn't mean it is right

the question remains, will it be looked at for future instances of the same thing happening ? I would say no.

thanks to dumplingheid for the info which I didn't need in the end but thanks anyway

Big Boss
Date Joined:    08 Jun 02
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04 Sep 17 13:15
18 years or so, never known it as bad on here the last year or so


Ran by pp now so just going the same way as the books, welch at every single opportunity possible. I would also guess that at the other end of the 4.4 back was the good old BF bot.

betfair SP was around 3.5 in the end, so the in house BOT would have pounced on my 4.4 in play like a ferret going up a trouser leg

1st Fujin ISP 7/1 BFSP 3.52
2nd Iseemist ISP 100/30 BFSP 2.03
3rd Upavon ISP 9/2 BFSP 2.83

Does the BOT just skim off money FOR BETFAIR ?

they call it "cross matching" *COUGH*

Good lad Boss im glad you got paid out, at least one person got paid out on the same instance.

I laid a horse in the each market for a 7 runner standard 2-y-o race (no non runners). The horse finished third so I thought I had won until I looked at p/l and it had it as a loser. Looked at the each way terms and it was a quarter the odds the first three.

This was clearly a Betfair mistake and I asked them to return my losses. That I failed in that attempt was disapponting but not surprising, What was both disappointing and surprising was that I communicated with 4 Betfair help staff and not one of them understood the point that I was making.