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onlooker
15 Aug 17 12:48
Joined:
Date Joined: 18 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 37,763 | Blogger: onlooker's blog
Off you go boys -

I suspect this will become a long thread ...

Arena courses delay big-screen action in bid to crack down on illegal streaming

Wolverhampton: two-second delay on big screen

By Peter Scargill
12:33PM, AUG 15 2017

Arena Racing Company has taken action to combat illegal filming and streaming of the action from its courses by introducing a delay to the live pictures being shown on big screens.

While they still operate at a marginal delay, big screens at most racecourses run nearly live, meaning anyone off course who is capable of watching the races via the big screen has an advantage over those viewing the action on television.

This can have implications for punters betting on the action in-running, with major gains possible for those able to see what is happening before the majority of the market.

In-running punters have been known to hire expensive hospitality boxes at some fixtures to make the most of this advantage, but streaming of the big screen enables those off course to have the same head start without the costs.

Others who could be affected by the delay include jockeys, who use the screen to check where the opposition are, and paying racegoers watching on course. There are also implications for the lucrative media rights deals struck on racing’s behalf.

Alternative feeds

A delay of just over two seconds was timed by the Racing Post at Wolverhampton’s meeting last Friday. No such delay was evident on the big screen at Ripon on Monday.

Wolverhampton confirmed the delay and had been in effect for around six weeks. Officials were able to watch the action live on an alternative feed for integrity purposes, while no complaints had been received from jockeys or racegoers.

Increased security has been introduced at Chelmsford to prevent similar streaming taking place, with officials not wanting to delay pictures for the majority of racegoers.

Fraser Garrity, the track’s manager, said: “We’ve had a few ‘FaceTimers’ with mobile phones trying to film the action off the screens inside the stand, presumably to give an advantage of a couple of seconds to someone else off course.

“We have good security who are able to identify and remove people from the course. We’ve had our big screen only since February 2016 and we don’t want to disrupt the majority of people who are watching it legitimately by having a delay.”

Planned upgrade

Arc said the delay was part of a planned upgrade to big screens at the group's courses, with the all-weather tracks prioritised because of the amount of racing they host.

Director of operations, Mark Spincer, said: “Over the next year we're upgrading the feed to the big screens and TVs across our racecourses by moving from an analogue to a digital service. This creates a small delay, which is kept to a minimum, and will improve the quality of the pictures customers enjoy when they are on our racecourses.”

A spokesman for the Jockey Club reported there were no delays to pictures on big screens at its racecourses.
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Report mouse muldoon August 23, 2017 6:09 PM BST
Even if the facetimers were completely eradicated, it would still be possible to stream the audio in real time. This would still enable the at-home punters to profit by following the advice of some of our excellent race-callers such as Derek Thompson.
Report TheFear August 23, 2017 6:19 PM BST
Imagine going to Cheltenham ,,, Annie Power's coming to the last, you're watching the big screen and OOOOH goes up from those watching through binoculars 2 seconds before you see it. She's down. Your enjoyment spoilt.

IDIOTIC.
Report howard August 23, 2017 7:06 PM BST
Ten 80-year-olds looking through bins not going to make much noise
Report TheFear August 23, 2017 7:09 PM BST
Lots of people watch the last flight as live? I was using artistic licence with binoculars.
Report howard August 23, 2017 7:15 PM BST
I think you have a good point but I would say Cheltenham for many reasons not the best course to focus on.
Report Willie Shafter. August 23, 2017 8:01 PM BST
changing to digital has implemented a slight delay..yous best phone the inventer of the digital box.
Report Rueben August 24, 2017 2:43 PM BST
But the digital delay hasn't hit the Betfair in running boxes at the tracks ? You didnt answer the question about why you stop anyone else getting a box at your tracks ?
Report TheFear August 24, 2017 2:46 PM BST
Did he answer the one about whether he gets facetime? be ironic if Wolves and co stopped facetime on the say so of a facetimer Laugh
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 2:47 PM BST
in a word rueban..

cosican.
Report TheFear August 24, 2017 2:47 PM BST
The press have to get on this. Cmon Greg Wood FFS. Let's put a bit more pressure on David Roberts Cool
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 2:48 PM BST
ive never used facetime pics.
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 2:50 PM BST
i heard all the shoplifters in the country are complaining to offcom about the installation of cctv.
Report TheFear August 24, 2017 2:51 PM BST
Fair play. Let's hope no one offers you Ireland,,,
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 2:54 PM BST
have you seen the pics? 1 out of 5 are decent..vastly overated and costly.
Report TheFear August 24, 2017 2:58 PM BST
No doubt, but alternative is squinting at LV two seconds behind.
Report Rueben August 24, 2017 2:59 PM BST
Willie Shafter. 24 Aug 17 14:47 Joined: 15 Jul 04 | Topic/replies: 3,997 | Blogger: Willie Shafter.'s blog
in a word rueban..

cosican.

In a word #sh1ttingyourselfincaseyouloseyouredge
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 3:00 PM BST
rueben..if betfair closed today i cudnt givaphuck.
Report dustybin August 24, 2017 3:04 PM BST
wazza going into tarot card reading after having his duck knocked off by the psychic
Report Willie Shafter. August 24, 2017 6:02 PM BST
but how did he know?
Report dustybin August 24, 2017 6:36 PM BST
he had a 3 second start
Report duncan idaho August 25, 2017 8:46 AM BST
Laugh
Report use2begudear August 25, 2017 2:23 PM BST
How can people be allowed to go to the racetrack and lay horses from other meetings on Betfair without a bookmakers licence ? Thought anyone attending and laying horses had to have the required licences ? The track players all pay Betfair between 20-60% of their takings so in effect Betfair operate from racetracks for free while making a nice tidy sum !!
Report TheFear August 25, 2017 4:29 PM BST
Filming the action live will be next surely? People do this to a high standard on footy already?
Report Willie Shafter. August 25, 2017 6:53 PM BST
ive just bought a camcorder off ebay..80 quid.
Report TheFear August 25, 2017 7:02 PM BST
haha! Ahead of the game again. I'm selling my drone. Not ingognito enuff
Report Willie Shafter. August 25, 2017 7:12 PM BST
im prepared for them..been clay pigeon shooting.
Report howard August 25, 2017 9:25 PM BST
the new ones work at altitude...SAM needed
Report Willie Shafter. August 25, 2017 9:39 PM BST
easier to shoot the operator.
Report Rueben August 26, 2017 9:46 AM BST
Nothing lasts forever, so let the track boys fight over the scraps for a bit longer.
Report Rueben August 27, 2017 11:37 AM BST
Willie Shafter.
24 Aug 17 15:00
Joined: 15 Jul 04
| Topic/replies: 4,164 | Blogger: Willie Shafter.'s blog
rueben..if betfair closed today i cudnt givaphuck.

so sits poncing tenners on a Saturday nite on ruk Laugh
Report Willie Shafter. August 27, 2017 11:45 AM BST
better hourly rate than rooney..Cool
Report TheFear August 27, 2017 12:47 PM BST
Would help if someone like Nick Rust made some kind of comment on things like this. But of course punters are way, way down the pecking order Sad
Report use2begudear August 28, 2017 1:43 PM BST
BHA headed up by an MD from Ladbrokes so god luck with that project !!
Report TheFear August 28, 2017 1:45 PM BST
Good luck stopping facetime if LIVE pics are available anywhere at the track. Just means the price goes up.
Report dervish August 28, 2017 1:55 PM BST
Is Southwell delayed today?
Report Willie Shafter. August 28, 2017 1:58 PM BST
yes...cant you get matched ?
Report TheFear August 28, 2017 2:19 PM BST
Good news for the facetime crowd really. They will get a better picture now it will be coming from a box with wifi.
Report TheFear August 28, 2017 2:22 PM BST
Mr Roberts trusting the in runners not to send the pictures LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report unbiased August 28, 2017 2:28 PM BST
After 17 years of Betfair,and what a brilliant innovation,there are still posters around,like "used2begudear",who can't grasp the fact that Betfair holds the bookmaking licence for every single bet struck on it's exchange by backers and LAYERS.Yes,it is legal.Plenty of players have lost money,and turned it in,on in running playing oncourse.We ALL know that they have an advantage,so nobody is forced to participate,however,some still make it pay,even with a time disadvantage,which can be done in longer races(NH),if you are a good race reader,and know your horses.
  We all have the choice whether to bet,or not,especially when we don't like the odds.
Report duffy August 28, 2017 2:35 PM BST
I prefer the flat to NH myself for in-running, a 5 runner 3 mile chase is a lot tougher than a race with more runners and things happening quicker, even with a time disadvantage.
Report dustybin August 28, 2017 2:51 PM BST
unbiased

So would the same apply to people investing on the LSE who buy a position where they get info before all others?

All others can either chose to invest or not?
Report unbiased August 28, 2017 3:01 PM BST
Totally different scenario.A position of a horse in a race is factual,markets aren't,and you are in the hands of the brokers.
  Everyone has the option of whether to bet,or not,deal,or not.
Report dustybin August 28, 2017 3:03 PM BST
This is about the sale of use of technology and infrastructure that is limited to those whom are charged a premium for the service who then use the advantage to determine the outcome of events before others.

Its the act that is contrived (in providing an oportunity, and in the slowing of alternative products to create such an artificial position) and therefore those tasked with governing those betting within the markets (to limit cheating or the assisance of cheating) have a responsibility to stop it.

Thos that use said services should have no chargrin about the integrity issue since they know profits are relitive to merit right now.
Report dustybin August 28, 2017 3:05 PM BST
A price of a share within a market is as factual as the event in which an exchange offers a price on an actual race.

If somebody purchases an exclusive privilege then people have the right to ask whether this is right and proper.
Report dustybin August 28, 2017 3:07 PM BST
*profits arnt relative to merit
Report Rueben August 29, 2017 2:07 PM BST
unbiased
28 Aug 17 14:28
Joined: 04 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 5,580 | Blogger: unbiased's blog
After 17 years of Betfair,and what a brilliant innovation,there are still posters around,like "used2begudear",who can't grasp the fact that Betfair holds the bookmaking licence for every single bet struck on it's exchange by backers and LAYERS.Yes,it is legal

Is it ok for track players to monopolise their position and prevent other people having an equal opportunity to play from any racetrack in the country ?
Report use2begudear August 30, 2017 1:46 PM BST
Liquidity in terminal decline but track boys try to stop anyone having a fair chance LOL
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 2:49 PM BST
'a fair chance' ?

facetiming is breaking media rights..it isnt allowed.
Report dustybin August 30, 2017 2:53 PM BST
then they need to use the same actions over all potential infringement for their argument to hold water Mischief
Report pablo-fanque August 30, 2017 3:06 PM BST
it's not the streaming of pics from on course to maybe 30 people around the country that is the issue , no one really cares about that . you can watch a stream online for free, there are loads of them. you can watch it in a betting shop for free, there are loads of them too. you can watch it on here for free with a matched bet .

it is the speed of the pics that are being pirated that's the issue, not the pics themselves. breaking media right is just a poor excuse for why they are doing it .
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 30, 2017 3:31 PM BST
To be fair, pablo, all those methods you mention in your first paragraph involve money being paid to the racecourse, whether from bookmakers or SIS.

The Facetimers don't pay anything to the racecourse.

But if the racecourses were to negotiate a payment from the Facetimers in return for the right to broadcast pictures, then things would start to get interesting.
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 3:34 PM BST
Perfectly summed up, pablo.
Report pablo-fanque August 30, 2017 3:36 PM BST
SFBTW , it's as simple as this imo . if the on course pics had the same delay as what ATR or RUK are shown at home, no one would give a f#ck about people facetiming
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 3:47 PM BST
Frequency: 11174 - Pol: V - SR: 3255 - FEC: NC
Category: Sport - Courses hippiques
Transmitted in: MPEG-2
Comments: At The Races


7 east feed still free to air. But media rights is the issue LOLOLOLOL.
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 4:47 PM BST
How does that "code" compare to the Live Video speeds TheFear......for those privileged enough to have the decoder?
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 4:47 PM BST
How does the speed of that compare to the LiveVideo feeds please TheFear?
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 4:52 PM BST
no code required mate. That's the point it's free to air. Pictures slow of course otherwise they'd stop it.
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 4:53 PM BST
sorry misread that. behind LV
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 4:57 PM BST
By approx how far would you think? Some of these meetings(especially the Irish) seem to be playing "very hard" since the Irish "codes" went AWOL.
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 5:07 PM BST
I can't remember Spartan and not in a position to check. Pretty sure it was less than a second but might have been .2 or .3 .
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 5:20 PM BST
is the 7e feed being pirated to the satellite?
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 5:25 PM BST
Many thanks TheFear. I've been the following the "Irish" problems with interest. Also,with the possibility of investing in a dish(if it was advantageous/quicker). By the sounds of that,it's not,so I shan't bother for the time being. Thanks again.
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 5:30 PM BST
7e bout sec slower than blv..and theres no irish anymore spartan.
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 5:47 PM BST
Cheers Willie. I sort of gathered that with the liquidity,or rather,the distinct lack of it in recent days.
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 5:51 PM BST
track players v callers v blv
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 6:01 PM BST
I would imaging this could be the beginning of the end for the "shops" then Willie? Are a few more English tracks going to the new-SIS jobbie next year...TRP ??
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 6:04 PM BST
yes ours is wobbling as is thornaby which is closed atm..we only have 5-8 max and only 5 this week..
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 6:21 PM BST
Only 5 this week? Is that players,or fast-pic meetings? Looks there was 10 fast-pics,but you've lost 8 Irish ones. Ive had a quick spin through till the big jumps meet at Chelt in November and there's 94 English meets,but you've lost 94 Irish. Hence,only a 50% "product" is left? Not sure how the yearly days work out,but I think theres 26 tracks in Ireland,and 13 left on the pics in England?
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 6:24 PM BST
5 people this week...only english we dont get atm is aw and donc/wind/towc
Report TheFear August 30, 2017 6:31 PM BST
where they all gone, quit or back to the track?
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 6:34 PM BST
few cant make it pay in office so track only..few fell by wayside..only the disciplined survive these days.
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 6:48 PM BST
You speak a lot of sense(as always) Willie. Are the shops having to reduce the "rent" accordingly,as it appears,even though there might be super-fast internet,and an office/job environment,there's only really a 50% product now?
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 6:52 PM BST
yes spartan..ive just reduced ours to an all time low..cut back on everything so our shop exes are now £650 a week.
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 7:11 PM BST
Got ya. So, basically if you're squad of 8, is only 5 this week,you're not getting any "wages" out of it for yourself? You've got to charge £130 each to get level now. I'm assuming this is the same story in the other shops? Obviously,theres some days when you can play "from home" now.
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 7:14 PM BST
its non profit making...i never play from home,never have since 2007 ish and im in middle of moving anyways..never really hear much about other shops bar thornaby.
Report howard August 30, 2017 7:30 PM BST
Craster or Moor House B&B ?
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 7:33 PM BST
bought a camper van from ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Converted-Library-Bus-Camper-van-/152683963078?ha****m238cac62c6:g:bIgAAOSw9LZZpvcB
Report Spartan Missile August 30, 2017 7:33 PM BST
Thanks for your help Willie. Be lucky(or skilful)!!!!!
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 7:34 PM BST
missing letters

s h = i t e

Laugh
Report Willie Shafter. August 30, 2017 7:35 PM BST
ty sm.
Report Rueben September 4, 2017 2:40 PM BST
2017 and people unable to play live in running except at the racetrack - technology frozen in time since the 90's in horse racing LaughLaugh
Report TheFear September 4, 2017 2:54 PM BST
horseracing allowing SIS and ATR to control the situation.

Have Wolves got their trading licence yet? Tick tock
Report Willie Shafter. September 4, 2017 2:59 PM BST
ruebens constant post repeating seems to be also frozen in time.
Report Rider September 4, 2017 4:00 PM BST
has this issue ever been brought to the attention of the Horseracing Bettors Forum?
Report TheFear September 4, 2017 4:05 PM BST
I emailed HBF - no reply
BHA - no reply
ROA - we'll keep an eye on it
RCA - the pics are definitely not being slowed for in runners. No siree.

We have an in runner on the HBF now twitter @boots111
Report Willie Shafter. September 4, 2017 4:20 PM BST
has anyone rang offcom about shopkeepers installing cameras to deter shoplifting?
Report TheFear September 4, 2017 4:30 PM BST
dave wants to install cameras to deter facetime in his boxes Laugh
Report Willie Shafter. September 4, 2017 4:31 PM BST
thats down to a minority fortunately.
Report Rider September 4, 2017 4:38 PM BST
why would they ring ofcom? its the shops who would lose money and become uncompetitive with the shops that do deter thieves through technology, everyone who bets in-running (other than the few who bet on course) loses something from their roi as a consequence of time delays, yes they have a choice and that should be of prime concern to the BHA and HBF, as millennials are not likely to want to bet on horse racing as a result
Report Rider September 4, 2017 4:41 PM BST

Sep 4, 2017 -- 4:05PM, TheFear wrote:


I emailed HBF - no replyBHA - no replyROA - we'll keep an eye on itRCA - the pics are definitely not being slowed for in runners. No siree.We have an in runner on the HBF now twitter @boots111


cheers, not surprised

Report Rider September 4, 2017 4:48 PM BST
The Horseracing Bettors Forum welcomes the initiatives announced by the BHA regarding XXXXXXXXX, and particularly commends the fact that the consequences to the betting public have been properly considered......

HBF raised the issue with the BHA shortly after HBF was created nearly two years ago, since when it has received a steady stream of correspondence on the matter. It is pleased that action will now be taken.

HBF will not hesitate to press for tougher measures if these initiatives fall short of having the desired effect of making British horseracing more appealing to the betting public at the same time as being fair to the sport’s participants.

– HBF, 16th August 2017


now XXXXXXXXX could easily = in-running but does in fact = non-runners, so no reason why this should not be raised with equal importance imo
Report Rider September 4, 2017 4:50 PM BST
*XXXXXXXXX= in-running betting
Report TheFear September 4, 2017 4:59 PM BST
HBF is imo just an opportunity for people who want to raise their own profiles. There should be a PAID punters' rep in the BHA.
Report howard September 5, 2017 2:31 PM BST
wazza ( or anyone ) , is the 7e feed quicker than ATR on sky ? ( I ask from a photo betting angle not IR )
Report TheFear September 5, 2017 2:40 PM BST
yes considerably
Report howard September 5, 2017 2:51 PM BST
thanks. Do  you need a different box or can a skybox be tuned in ?
Report TheFear September 5, 2017 2:58 PM BST
no idea mate sorry
Report TheFear September 5, 2017 3:00 PM BST
There's usually an ITV one too. No good for in running but would be helpful for your photos, as well ahead of SKY ITV.
Report Willie Shafter. September 5, 2017 3:02 PM BST
sky platform is 28.2e...need a motorised system or another dish pointed to 7e
Report howard September 5, 2017 3:15 PM BST
thanks. RUK OK for photos but saving a bit of time on atr would be handy
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