who was the better jockey??

Cauthen at his peak for Sir Henry

Piggott for V O'Brien.

Eddery for cecil.

Fallon>Moore>Dettori

The Horse.

Ima mazed will be along shortly with a 10 page essay on why Fallon is the best.

r moore

when fallon was at his peak he was amazing (papal bull)

Extremely tough call - You would have to imagine Fallon was the strongest of the three. Having said that, Frankie is probably the better horseman. Ryan is a fantastic jockey. Sit on the fence - triple dead heat.

It's like trying to separate Piggot, Eddery and Cauthen.

MJ Kinane for DK Weld and occasionally M Stoute....

These debates tend to descend into 'who would you want in a finish' and that is clearly (imo) Fallon.

I hope there is no aftertiming on here.

Positionally Dettori was different class from the other two.

Fallon's legacy is vastly underrated due to the controversy he became embroiled in.

Moore has been the best since and one of the best ever - but his best rides haven't been for O'Brien.

Dettori has been brilliant, but the lack of consistency and sheer will to win for your average Jo punter, means the other two take precedence.

These questions pop up constantly and the only factual thing to be said is that it is a matter of conjecture, there is no definitive answer because hopefully everyone has their own opinion on the subject and will be guided by the era they remember as the best, which means comparisons or debate are futile.

What you find is that most people remember those gone by as the best. It's very much the same with music. They largely get stuck in an era - generally the one where they were at the peak of their powers.

Bollox. Lester would have been great in any era and Bore Moore wouldn't..

To Gandalf

ok

The 60s was deffo the best decade for music!

As for the opening question, I make it a dead heat between Fallon & Dettori.

"These questions pop up constantly and the only factual thing to be said is that it is a matter of conjecture, there is no definitive answer because hopefully everyone has their own opinion on the subject and will be guided by the era they remember as the best, which means comparisons or debate are futile".

I couldn't agree more with the thrust of this argument, but the insurmountable problem with taking this position is LESTER.   night-night

I followed Fallon's career since his days in the North and he was the best in that that golden time riding for Cecil , Stoute then O Brien, shame about the last few years riding lesser horses I felt he gave up too soon in races. Dettori has been doing the business for so long now, great jockey, and Moore is so good in a finish calls a spade a spade !

Nash Rawiller is the best jockey I have ever seen.
I have been all over the world but that man is a class above the rest of everyone.
Just fkn brilliant is what he is and if you have a chance he will find it.

Frankie.By a long way.

Dettori out of that lot , but Johnny Murtagh was very good.

Theonlywayforward - Nash Rawiller ? Says on Wikipedia he rode in GB. I am guessing he rode in the Shergar Cup. Cannot recall him standing out.

To the original question Fallon. Also bear in mind that he had to make his own way as he was not from a racing family.
Shame that I am one of the few to have seen Sir Gordon ride.
In this era with so many more meetings,helicopters and international travel how many winners would he have ridden ?

Dettori by the proverbial country mile, different class to Fellon.

Dettori.

Well the lack of experience clearly shows what most know.
Nash is the best you or I will ever see.

Dettori on the classy, speedy types. Fallon on the lazy, strong-staying types.

I deal with them day in day out .
Every fkn day and if I dont know give up FFs.
Nash is the most professional and superior to all.
Furthermore one will win backing him as his stats state.

End of.

Tread will probably pulled now .

kentucky kid was the best judge of pace i ever seen rarely got boxed in and was fantastic in a finish
almost the complete professional Cauthen dif class !

Bigmart did you bet banned again ? as for sure that is you.!!!!!!!

Mick Kinane all day long. The ultimate big-race jockey with an unflappable temperament and one who certainly made less mistakes than the aforementioned trio.

Murtagh and Kinane are the best two I've seen since the days of Cauthen and Eddery, with Dettori an honourable third.

mj kinane was the best there ever has been.

Moore couldn't lace their boots.

You can't all be right.

Lester, Eddery,Kinane, Murtagh, Cauthen, St.Martin are all better than the OP's three. And thats just from the top of my head.

SOME JOCKS WERE GOOD ON SOME COURSES AND NOT SO GOOD O N  OTHERS ..   
Need to learn up and coming young Jocks better .. As some get some stick ON  here ..   ...
Think   the game  ...????     .......makes jocks  ...... BAD ..  .. as is required .. ??   .. ALL HAVE RIDDEN SOME CRAP IN THE SADDLE ..  .. also agree some had a sort of  .... ? ..... BRAIN ..?   .......but  not  too many ..   //?? .
far too much poor quality racing now .. 7 day week and on it goes ..

jamilla14
15 May 17 19:31
Joined: 07 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 414 | Blogger: jamilla14's blog
Theonlywayforward - Nash Rawiller ? Says on Wikipedia he rode in GB. I am guessing he rode in the Shergar Cup. Cannot recall him standing out.


His record is there for all to see.


But more important is when your stake is down and you need a winner you can rely on NASH to deliver.

He is the best by a long way.

''He gave it a brilliant ride'' is a comment we often hear.

Yet what did the jockey do if not simply time his run, keep the horse balanced and encourage it to do it's best by whipping it?

Which is exactly what the other jockeys in the race had done.
That's apart from the ones who were simply out for the gallop or to specifically bring back some place money. They're likely to get labelled with giving the horse a poor ride.

Have the horse in the right place at the right time is your answer.
Easier said than done for sure.

Look the jock cannot improve the horse but he can give it its best possible chance by being astute.

And often is the case where its poor position leaves one reeling .
Not the case with nash .Yes he does fk up but rarely.

Nash Rawiller in the same sentence as Kinane, Lester, Murtagh et al.?

You sound like a right mug.

Idiot of the highest order.
Get your stats You total balloon.

Probably too difficult for an idiot to actually do that.

But we're not talking about stats, that's not the point of the thread. We're discussing grace, style, temperament and raw ability and you laughably try to justify Nash Rawiller's inclusion into this elite group.

The game's not for you son.

The litmus test of course would be to sample one hundred European racegoers and ask each who they would like jocked up (present or past) in a big race if it was their horse. Family Fortunes style.

Very clearly nobody would want Nash Rawiller anywhere near their beast and he'd draw a big fat zero (insert Family Fortunes' buzzing noise at this stage).

Well if stats dont account well the game is surly over .
You are taking rubbish as its all about who wins.
Thus the stats.

Can't see ANY Aussie jockey being in the the top half a dozen or so let alone Rawiler. Surely he wouldn't be of the class of Scobie, Pat Glennon, George Moore or Ron Hutchinson?

Moore will go down as the best of those 3. Been the best jockey riding in Europe for the last 10-12 years and still only 33. Dettori absolutely brilliant when at the top of his game so 2nd for him.

Well you experience is noted As fkn useless.

Have the horse in the right place at the right time is your answer.
Easier said than done for sure.

Especially if the horse lacks the pace to do that, or you're drawn badly and other horses are there first.
Which comes back to being on the best horse.

Look not spending time arguing a simple point .
If you want to win Back the best .And that is for sure Rawiller.

Agree, he can be guaranteed to Nash then all to bits 


(whoever he is)

George Moore was brilliant aboard Royal Palace. Scobie Breasley was Piggot's biggest adversary in the sixties. Hutchinson was an international star whilst Pat Glennon succeeded in Australia before riding for Vincent O'Brien in Ireland and getting the leg up on Sea Bird.
As for this Nash Rawiller, sorry, never heard of him.

After Lester(in this country).R.Cochrane,R.Hughes.

Cockrane had lovely hands but better than Terwilliger? i'm not so sure

Stats can be very useful if used in the right way. Take Celtic stats this season, not lost a game and chelsea have lost 5. Does this mean Celtic are five times a better team than Chelsea?

in my time i would say the following - 70s piggot - 80s cauthan - 90s kinane - 20s dettori - last decade  no one sticks out like the others did when at top pf their game

frankie out of those three, excellent from the front and great hands

but i agree with those who say that murtagh and kinane were the best of recent times

Piggot 60s,  Eddery 70s,  Cauthen 80s,  Fallon 90s,  Dettori 00s,  Moore 10s

Next bests ; Breasley 60s, Carson 70s,Peslier 80s, Kinane 90s, Murtagh 00s, Hughes 10s.

Hutchingson 60s, Eve St Marten 70s, Steve Caution 80s, Dettori 90s, Mutragh 00s, Nash Terwilliger 10s

jamilla14 has it about right with both his first and second choices.