Ex-Wachman-trained horses

Go that extra yard.... an eye is not enough... cud be too late

I was hoping for at least 25s for Winter, it's not even double-figures, even with the apparent 3rd jock on board

Btw, the one that won for O'Brien was encountering soft ground and a tt for the first time, while the one that won for Harrington, had undergone a wind op.

So they hadn't necessarily improved, just thrived under different circumstances!

A few entered at Leopardstown tomorrow as well Rain Goddess and Winter 2.45 ,, Rekindling 3.45,,

Nice one carrot

Winter was 16/1 last night.

By the time I got round to looking, think it was top price 10s; given what it had to find on the figs, wasn't expecting it to be punted, tbh, particularly given the jockey bookings, but there thar go

Any idea the easiest way to track them George  ?

One running tomorrow at Nottingham George ...... it's 2nd run for trainer mind......was well punted first time but had a valid excuse

whats it called grayhawk

Not sure tbh bobbyjo, list all his runners from last year and stick them in your tracker?

There are 3 running tonight

4.45 Tobacco Road (2nd run for JM - was given a 42 day ban following the first one)
6,45 Tessonia (2nd run for Fozzy Stack)
7.45 Clear Skies


please note: I think Mr Wachman was a superb trainer and I'm not advising you follow these blind!

cheers grayhawk, i'll have a gander

Clear Skies 745 Tipperary.

Sorry. I'd obviously not noticed the other two!

Yikes, looks like the 3 tonight have been smashed in the betting

2nd run tonight for the other two, Mikael

clear skies has  had over a year off, had few problems take a lot for it to bounce back
1st run ! cheers george al have a gander thanks , the forums perfect gent as always !

Think you're being disingenuous George and backing and laying on this thread. Your headline can be easily interpreted negatively on DW yet you take 6 days to tell us you were his biggest fan. I'm also thinking "superb" may be stretching the superlative and suggests you are merely mischief-making.

Time will tell if he gave up after losing his mojo and interest in the game and that usually brings opportunities in this game for others. I would offer in similar fashion that being "to the manor born (or adopted)" saw David O'Brien unable to cope and Charles O'Brien never took the game seriously.

Thanks for the replies chaps

again thank you george, missed the good prices on tobacco but winners a winner

thanks was following with interest. just backed tobaco

craigie, I didn't tip it, and we don't want RoyalAcademy getting any more angry than he already is!

always good to see an angle guys

no but brought to my attention by thread and profit even if other 2 lose so im happy

not angry George, just looking to see a good debate! It's a good topic I'll grant you!

Only winding you up, RA, let's just say confrontational then

In all seriousness, obviously two of them had bolted up which prompted the thread, but I did point out there were possible reasons for the apparent improvement (ground / wind-op), and since Rekindling and Winter have won / gone close, and no doubt posted a career-best in doing so, but both had looked promising last year, so maybe it's just natural improvement with racing!

it helps that he always had a good class of animal to train so the raw material is already there for anyone taking over

agree with timeless best horse in the race but stable form iffy in and out !

ex-Mark Johnston - just gone in -

- on first run for Lady Jane Gillespie - never trained a Flat winner before - and only had 3 Hurdle winners since 2006

won-o-won IR

And I was all set to do a Meatloaf - 2 out of 3 ain't bad

Apr 11, 2017 -- 7:05PM, onlooker wrote:

ex-Mark Johnston - just gone in - - on first run for Lady Jane Gillespie - never trained a Flat winner before - and only had 3 Hurdle winners since 2006

If you interpreted 'training' in its strictest, most literal sense, Mark Johnston has probably never trained a winner since he got the Arab patronage.

can someone explain the last comment to me please?

Johnson has very little to do with any of the horses, wouldn't know one from the other and operates the show from a high-level position. It's paint-by-numbers.

he's a qualified vet,

I think he knows more than you !

Where did I say I was qualified to train horses? I'm well aware he is a qualified vet, that doesn't mean he is a good trainer, which he isn't. He has the backing of a patron with an unlimited budget who still can't get it right; mainly because he gives horses to people like Johnson.

Whether he knows more than me has nothing to do with it.

he's only been training for over 20 years but never mind that

ok, Mark Johnston is not a good trainer

He's not a good trainer no, in my opinion. He has become very wealthy from training, there's a difference.

Mister Baileys
Fruits of Love
Attraction
Double Trigger
Double Blue
Royal Rebel
Jukebox Jury
Bijou D'Inde
The Last Lion
Yavanas Pace

just a few Group 1 winners from yesteryear without Arab patronage

you would certainly question his ability on results. he seems nowhere near the top table given the calibre and numbers he handles. these lads that support him would leave you forever goggle-eyed.

he's rubbish innit

2000 Guineas    Mister Baileys    Group 1
1000 Guineas    Attraction    Group 1
Irish 1000 Guineas    Attraction    Group 1
Coronation Stakes    Attraction    Group 1
Sun Chariot Stakes    Attraction    Group 1
Matron Stakes    Attraction    Group 1
Irish St. Leger    Jukebox Jury    Group 1
Ascot Gold Cup (3 times)   

Double Trigger

Royal Rebel (twice)



Group 1
Falmouth Stakes    Nahood      Group 1
St. James's Palace Stakes    Bijou D'Inde    Group 1
Phoenix Stakes    Princely Heir    Group 1
Gran Criterium (3 times)   
Lend a Hand

Pearl Of Love

Kirklees

Group 1
Credit Suisse Private Banking Pokal    Yavana's Pace    Group 1
Dewhurst Stakes    Shamardal    Group 1
Preis Von Europa    Jukebox Jury    Group 1
Middle Park Stakes   
Awzaan

The Last Lion

Group 1
Grosser Dallmayr-Preis Bayerisches Zuchtrennen    Lady Jane Digby    Group 1
Cheveley Park Stakes    Lumiere    Group 1
   



Goffs Million Mile    Shakespearean    Sales Race
Goodwood Cup (5 times)   
Double Trigger
(3 times)

Royal Rebel

Darasim

Group 2
Flying Childers Stakes    Land of Dreams    Group 2
Prix Vicomtesse Vigier    Double Eclipse    Group 2
Royal Lodge (three times)   

Mister Baileys

Jukebox Jury

Steeler


Group 2
Hardwicke Stakes  (4 times)    Fruits Of Love (twice)

Zindabad

Bandari    Group 2
Dubai Duty Free Mill Reef Stakes (twice)    Bouncing Bowdler


Awzaan
Group 2
Princess of Wales Stakes   
(3 times)    Fruits of Love

Bandari
   
Soapy Danger    Group 2
Richmond Stakes   
Mister Cosmi

Heavy Metal

Group 2
Prix Du Conseil De Paris    Yavana's Pace    Group 2
Yorkshire Cup    Zindabad    Group 2
Bonusprint Henry II Stakes    Akbar    Group 2
Great Voltigeur Stakes    Bandari    Group 2
Betattheraces Mile    Desert Deer    Group 2
Cherry Hinton Stakes    Attraction    Group 2
Vintage Stakes (twice)    Shamardal

Lucky Story
Group 2
Grand Prix de Deauville    Jukebox Jury    Group 2
Champagne Stakes (twice)   
Lucky Story

McCartney

Group 2
Futurity Stakes    Pearl Of Love    Group 2
Gimcrack Stakes   
Shaweel

Group 2
Prix Kergorley   
Darasim

Jukebox Jury

Group 2
Prix Guillaume D'Ornano    Mister Monet    Group 2
King Edward VII Stakes    Boscobel

Monterosso    Group 2
Jockey Club Stakes (twice)    Jukebox Jury

Universal    Group 2
Park Hill Stakes    Eastern Aria    Group 2
Anatolia Trophy (Turkey)    Dordogne    Group 2
Dubai Challenge Stakes    Fulbright    Group 2
Sagaro Stakes (twice)    Double Trigger    Group 2
Clipper Boomerang Mile    Bow Creek    Group 2
Coventry Stakes    Buratino    Group 2
Doncaster Cup (3 times)    Double Trigger    Group 3
Ballyogan stakes    Millstream    Group 3
Princess Margaret Stakes    Marina Park    Group 3
Lanson Champagne Stakes    Mister Baileys    Group 3
Futurity Stakes (twice)    Jural

Bijou D'Inde    Group 3
Cornwallis Stakes    Millstream    Group 3
Curragh Stakes    Millstream    Group 3
Italian St. Leger    Double Trigger    Group 3
Henry II Stakes (twice)    Double Trigger    Group 3
King George Stakes    Land of Dreams    Group 3
Prix De Barbeville    Double Eclipse    Group 3
Darley-Oettingen-Rennen    White Heart    Group 3
Victor Chandler September Stakes    Yavana's Pace    Group 3
John Porter Stakes   
Yavana's Pace

Zindabad

Group 3
Weatherbys Insurance Lonsdale Stakes    Royal Rebel    Group 3
Queen's Vase (6 times)   
And Beyond

Shanty Star

Melrose Avenue

Soapy Danger

Holberg

Namibian

Group 3
Prix Gladiateur (twice)   
Yavana's Place

Darasim

Group 3
Heathorns Classic Trial    Simeon    Group 3
Victor Chandler Chester Vase    Fight Your Corner    Group 3
Attheraces Sky Channel 418 Derby Trial Stakes    Bandari    Group 3
Emirates Airline Minstrel Stakes    Gateman    Group 3
Gordon Stakes   
Bandari

Namibian

Group 3
Jaguar-Meile    Love Regardless    Group 3
Cumberland Lodge Stakes    Systematic    Group 3
Grosser Preis Der Landeshauptsrtadt Dusseldorf    Love Regardless    Group 3
Princess Royal Willmott Dixon Stakes    Love Everlasting    Group 3
Diomed Stakes    Gateman    Group 3
Queen Mary Stakes    Attraction    Group 3
Norfolk Stakes    Russian Valour    Group 3
Weatherbys Earl of Sefton Stakes    Gateman    Group 3
Ormonde Stakes    Systematic    Group 3
Betty Barcley-Rennen    Darasim    Group 3
Brigadier Gerard Stakes    Bandari    Group 3
Deutsches St Leger    Fox Hunt    Group 3
Rose of Lancaster Stakes   
Jukebox Jury

Mister Monet

Group 3
Musidora Stakes    Secret History    Group 3
Sirenia Stakes    Prince Of Light

The Last Lion    Group 3
Solario Stakes (twice)    Drumfire

Shakespearean    Group 3
Curragh Cup    Peppertree Lane    Group 3
Walther J Jacobs Stutenpreis (twice)    Majounes Song

Lady Jane Digby    Group 3
Supreme Stakes    Lovelace    Group 3
Kilternan Stakes    Hearthstead Maison    Group 3
Jersey Stakes    Rainfall    Group 3
Bahrain Trophy    Corsica    Group 3
Sovereign Stakes    Sea Lord     Group 3
Moet Hennessy Fillies Stakes (registered as the Lillie Langtry Stakes)    Eastern Aria    Group 3
Whip Stakes    Maputo     Group 3
Baden-Badener Zukunftsrennen    Maputo     Group 3
Molecomb Stakes    Yalta    Group 3
Prestige Stakes    Kilmah    Group 3
Prix de Conde    Frankuus    Group 3

Apr 12, 2017 -- 1:40PM, RoyalAcademy wrote:

you would certainly question his ability on results. he seems nowhere near the top table given the calibre and numbers he handles. these lads that support him would leave you forever goggle-eyed.

He has so many horses and trained for so long, he is going to have trained some winners. For me, he is not a top trainer.

What someone like Weld would've done with the offspring of those staying mares he has had through his hands from the Arabs, it doesn't bear thinking about.

He seems to be moving back toward 2yos and a more precocious type in the last couple of years and he should stick at that, he won't be training horses to win prestige, blue chip group 1 races, as your list suggests in the main, as it happens.

I don't think he gets the best from what he has. Yalta is a talented horse that would've done a lot more elsewhere, incidently.

so we've gone from he is not a good trainer to he is not a top trainer,

carry on

Lumiere, huge natural talent not made the most off under that regime. Massive underachiever.

Awzaan was another going further back, horses like Shakespearian and

Johnsons is not a place for real ones, its a spot for 3yo geldings who happen to find themselves well-handicapped because of the way they have been campaigned and the odd sharp 2yo. That's it.

You're being pedantic now. He is not a good trainer.

He has over 200 horses, and won't be a factor in any of the top races this summer, is that a good trainer?

ask yourself why he has over 200 horses to train when he is not based in Newmarket or other fashionable centres,

anyway, I am bored of you now, believe what you want !

Not everybody wants to pay the cost of having a horse in Newmarket. There are people futher north in England that want to own racehorses relatively near to where they live. Inertia would be another reason he has maintained his numbers.

Not bothered whether you're "bored" of me or not, seeing as you regard to that level of childishness, you can rest assured that I have no regard for your opinion, either and won't be interacting with you again on this forum.

resort*

LOVE POTION  2.45 Cork

Thank you, carrot. Looks an interesting one on two counts, that they're persevering with her after so long off, and it's Aidan who's taken her on.

And friendless in the market get on

Pocketfullofdreams CORK 3:20

Cheers Malcolm, 2nd run for Aidan

Ouch

Killer. Sums up my day, backed limited reserve at haydock and the two runners at kempton and musselbrugh that fell out of the stalls.

Big plunge on the winner there!

Interesting one tomoz in the Classic Trial at Sandown, Intern making its debut for Raif Beckett. Currently around a 10s poke.

The fav Monarchs Glen looked a monster at Kempton and not surprisingly has been put in at odds on.

That ran an excellent race George, thanks
Another for Beckett in the 6.00 at Donny. No bargain around 3/1 but an interesting runner.

Yes, an interesting one bobbyjo, and seems an odd switch given the owner!

Fwiw, I didn't think the Noseda horse was ever getting a clear shot at it last time at the Craven meeting, so wouldn't want to judge him too harshly on that.

And Stoute's is interestingly persevering with a once-raced 4YO Hamdan horse, so all things considered, may be one just to watch!

Noseda hoss being smashed in the betting

Been tempted in on the drift

I nearly put the Noseda horse on my notebook thread, but the 'unknowns' in the race put me off, plus wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to better over further, though he's obviously capable at 7f.

Strange race but won well.
Murtagh has one at Gowran tomorrow

Ran well

Nice EW price, bobbyjo!

Winter!!

Winter was the first horse named on this thread, but unfortunately today I went with what appeared to be a pacemaker on me notebook fred

I was expecting this thread to come back up much sooner.

Rain Goddess in the French 1000 today.
Ex Wachman/Lordan Classic double.....?