There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Yesterday on Betfair Sportsbook I placed a £5 each way double on the two Hunter Chases, Ardea in the 4.20 @ Doncaster and Mr Mercurrial in the 4.45 @ Ludlow.
Ardea finished second 3/1 (5 ran) and Mr Mercurrial won 9/2 (only 4 ran as late N/R).
It was settled as a return of £18.59.
I queried this via 'chat'. I was asked which horse won, when I said Mr Mercurrial, I was asked what was my source for this information.
I was then told Ardea's race had only 4 runners so my bet was a loser, they even sent me a link to Sporting Life results.
I explained that the result link showed 4 finishers and one other was PU. I was told that this 'counted as a 4 runner race'.
Unbelievable, so I sent an email complaining.
The response from the 'racing traders' was that I should only have received £8.75 as the second leg(Mr Mercurrial) had only 4 runners, there is no place betting so it is void!! And that the original settlement was wrong.
I've been betting a long time, does anyone else agree it should be return £48.12 or £48.13 if they feel generous.
I accept mistakes are made, I make them on a regular basis, but once a mistake is made and highlighted please get it right.
Ardea finished second 3/1 (5 ran) and Mr Mercurrial won 9/2 (only 4 ran as late N/R).
It was settled as a return of £18.59.
I queried this via 'chat'. I was asked which horse won, when I said Mr Mercurrial, I was asked what was my source for this information.
I was then told Ardea's race had only 4 runners so my bet was a loser, they even sent me a link to Sporting Life results.
I explained that the result link showed 4 finishers and one other was PU. I was told that this 'counted as a 4 runner race'.
Unbelievable, so I sent an email complaining.
The response from the 'racing traders' was that I should only have received £8.75 as the second leg(Mr Mercurrial) had only 4 runners, there is no place betting so it is void!! And that the original settlement was wrong.
I've been betting a long time, does anyone else agree it should be return £48.12 or £48.13 if they feel generous.
I accept mistakes are made, I make them on a regular basis, but once a mistake is made and highlighted please get it right.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 111
|
By:
and yes I appreciate I was lucky to get the bet on in the first place!
|
|
By:
I would have been happy with the £18.59.
The win part of the bet is a loser. The best you can hope for is a place double if the 5th horse was a late NR and there was a rule 4, and £8.75 is about right. If the race is void, you would simply get a single place on Ardea, that again £8.75 is about right |
|
By:
You are absolutely correct You should get £48.12. Place betting for 4 or fewer runners is 'all up', ie full win odds for 1st place, nothing for 2nd place. And Ardera's race had 5 runners so 2 places at 1/4.
|
|
By:
surely the place part goes 'all on to win' in the 4 runner race.
They have just taken the £18.59 from my account and refunded me £10 so it appears they have voided the ENTIRE bet. |
|
By:
Agree with Andrew. You've got a £5 place double only. If they'd settled on 1/5th the odds a place I think it comes out even less..
|
|
By:
Thank you TTP, clearly not everyone shares our view!!
|
|
By:
You and toilet are correct, return should be £48 minus any rule 4.
|
|
By:
48 pounds and twelvepence halfpenny to be exact.
|
|
By:
Apologies GtW I'm no expert, but you have 2 bets running - a £5 win double, and a £5 place double. Both horses didn't win so your win double is a loser. That just leaves the place double which, at a 1/4 odds on a 3/1 shot and a 9/2 shot makes the £18.59 about right..
|
|
By:
I'm not aware of any rule that states a place bet in a 4 runner race is settled as a winner if it does win. Mind you I wouldn't do such a bet anyway.
|
|
By:
Well racing is all about opinions, they've told me if I am not happy about the settlement then contact IBAS. Classy .
|
|
By:
If the winner had finished 2nd (out of 4), you would have received nothing. You need to challenge this. If youd done an e/w single 5 runners and then 1 gets taken out, its all up. Therefore the same for the 'place' part of the each-way double. The place odds are the full win odds cos you have to finish 1st. The betting regulator would consider this a no-brainer.
|
|
By:
Yes, IBAS ... forgot the acronym.
|
|
By:
I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong in this and wish you all the best should you proceed further..Good Luck..
|
|
By:
less than 5 rnrs goes all on to win.
|
|
By:
Apologies to TTP, who according to Koral rules in correct .....
All bets are settled in accordance with our SP place betting terms and not at the time that the bet is placed. For example, if your bet has been placed when there are 5 runners, but only 4 horses come under “Starters Orders” then your whole stake will go on the selected horse to win. |
|
By:
£8.75 on the 9/2 wnr.
Returns £48.12 |
|
By:
escalations@betfair.com
email the above and it will get resolved without having to wait for IBAS |
|
By:
Should have put it on the exchange especially as any non runner was going to cause a problem
|
|
By:
21.7Place Terms
Each-way bets (Win and Place) are offered for the majority of races. For all horse races (at Early Price, Show Price and S.P) the each-way terms are affected by the type of race and the number of runners taking part and these terms are as follows: Race Type No. of Runners Place Odds No. Places All Races 4 or less Win Only Win Only All Races 5-7 1/4 1,2 Non-Handicaps 8+ 1/5 1,2,3 Handicaps* 8-11 1/5 1,2,3 Handicaps* 12-15 1/4 1,2,3 Handicaps* 16+ 1/4 1,2,3,4 [* ‘Handicaps’ include all Handicap and Nursery races] The ‘Win’ and ‘Place’ part of each-way multiple bets are settled separately (that is, win-to-win and place-to-place). Once opened, the number of winners in 'to be placed' markets may be affected by further non-runners. If the number of placed horses is less than the number of potential winners, the winners will only be the placed horse or horses. If any race is reduced to four runners or less, all each-way bets will be taken as ‘all-to-win’ given that there are no places. |
|
By:
Its just wrong that in order to be paid at 1/4 odds his horse has to win, Therefore If any race is reduced to four runners or less, all each-way bets will be taken as ‘all-to-win’ given that there are no places
|
|
By:
So according to the bottom rule above your place bet from the first horse to run should have all gone on the second to win
|
|
By:
As I said earlier, glad to be proved wrong, as that means GtW will get paid more, and I've learnt something as well..For that I thank you..
|
|
By:
Betfair's rules:
If any race is reduced to four runners or less, all each-way bets will be taken as ‘all-to-win’ given that there are no places The problem is that a double is just a double, the order of the events should be irrelevant. If you go with the 4 horse race first, it becomes a win double and loses. Go in the actual order of events, you have a place bet in a race which doesn't have place betting. Def one for IBAS more to see what logic they use to refuse to pay out... |
|
By:
if the wnr would have run 1st,the bet would
be £55/2 £27.50 E/W on the 3/1 still returns £48.12 |
|
By:
dave1357, two bets here win portion lost , place portion £8.75 all on to win.
|
|
By:
Looks like the bet was underpaid, good luck GTW. As Aladdin stated, I also learnt something ref 4 runner field settlement.
|
|
By:
I cant believe I'm reading all this, its like something out of fawlty towers, the worry is no-one in the race room & I repeat no-one can see the return on this bet is over £48 is frankly unbelievable
 |
|
By:
|
|
By:
What was the price of the late N/R ?
|
|
By:
doubles aint order dependant,
it's how many runners go to post. |
|
By:
Thank you for the replies, I will try the escalation route suggested by mmmalushka, thanks.
Pumphol, I did make that point to them, which is when I was advised by them to contact IBAS. Good evening everyone. |
|
By:
dave1357, how would settle the bet if Arbeo had won?
|
|
By:
agree pumphol. just cant believe there are so many who do not understand e/w rules
£48.12 is the return anyone who does not get it should not be betting imo |
|
By:
I know nothing, Mr Fawlty, but would go with the £48.13
|
|
By:
Take your case to IBAS. 100% you win
|
|
By:
price of n/r makes no difference as those are returned sps - what is staggering is that this has not been resolved in op s favour and tells you all you need to know about the knowledge of these guys at betfair towers regarding the rules of settlement in such circumstances
Totally laughable and no way will Betfair allow this to go to Ibas cos they wud laugh them out of "court"  |
|
By:
@penzance in this case they are order dependent, as I said, if the 4 horse race went off first, the first leg of the each way double becomes a win double because it is now 4 runners, but in the actual order of events you can argue that the place bet becomes a win bet.
Imagine if 5 horses had gone to post, he would have been settled place place it wouldn't matter which race went first. @mmmalushka that's just the same question. Because if you settle the bets in reverse the 4 horse race becomes win only, so it's a win double. My only point here is that settling a double in a different order gives a different result, which really shouldn't happen with a double. |
|
By:
smirnoff just beat me to it...as pumpy said hard to believe what i'm reading and surprised their is ANYBODY on this forum that disagrees with the £48.13 return..sharp minds indeed
 |