.....That Was A Disgrace And Make No Mistake .....

on a serious note breeding that family line seam to thrive on heavy going


Sire comment 1m3f German Group 2 winner as 3yo; sires high-class NH horses; sire of Sprinter Sacre

Anabale fly the 6/4 fav beat 124 len Try 48 1/2 lemgths

a let me explain i had calculated its race times and in my opinion it ran 124 len below form
slowest time of the day lets be honest looked like a few where in on this scam

So if it had run to form it would have won by 75 1/2 lengths

am messing if u look at form it is about on a par with the winner on a line through bellshill
but jockey made zero attempt on the fav you get a dour stayer put it to the front and just sit back and do nothing easy money that about sums up what happend here today

no wander work rider was angry if they are getting away with this in grade 2 races, god help   the rest of irish racing this horse was not just afforded an easy lead it looked arranged to me as the rest sat motionless

If you look at the time of previous races in the same race on heavy it was pretty fast faster than anything in 10 years.

Where in it's previous form does it confirm this horse is a 'dour stayer'? As far as I can see it had run once over 3 miles, weakening slightly on the run in.  We see front runners like this all the time and the majority of them come back. Yes, we found this horses optimum conditions today and it may turn out we've got a grand national winner on our hands, but there was no guarantee he was staying there today. The only horse to remotely go after it finished legless and the second pretty much confirmed their hurdles form.

and why is it over 50 sec slower than standard even accounting for heavy ground that's not graded class times , i personally think given soft of heavy ground it cd be a grand national type but the h. capper will murder it now

Everton is spot on here. Haymount, the first horse to come under a ride, was legless from some way out yet still held on for third having looked like being completely swallowed up by the pack. If they had gone after the winner from the outset then most of them would have pulled up and we'd have the same runaway winner.

i never said anything wd have beat the winner its a not got a turn of foot it jumps well and gallops beat mostly not staying types today form is nothing special

7.94 secs faster on todays going.

but they seam to have found the key to it ,front running and plenty cut suits just gallops and gallops
but not a grade 1 horse imo

cloone river 19 Feb 17 23:51 Joined: 23 Dec 04 | Topic/replies: 198 | Blogger: cloone river's blog
7.94 secs faster on todays going. faster than what ?

horse has not peaked give it another year it might but long way to go cant take anything away from its win but most horses never stayed and the fav did not lift a leg  , ran of a mark of 157  it cd well progress but its not a fast horse deffo much better when mud is flying

I'm confused now.  Were they non triers or doubtful stayers? Did the favourite run on its merits or just not 'lift a leg'?

no way the fav ran too its merits everton but on this ground don't think the fav wd have beat it on form lines from last year not much between the fav and the winner , clearly the winner exels in bog like ground , the rest dont stay imo still it was a good performance by the winner , but how their was no inquiry into the riding of the fav  beggars belief barry thinks he is untouchable now , punters are loosing confidence in the authorities , at no point did barry make an effort to close until the race was over at that point not even shergar wd have made up the ground people will start to think twice about betting over their how can anyone have confidence after seeing this debacle unfold it has to go
down as one of the most blatant none jiggers of all time , be nice if you new what was going down , nice lay on the win and  place market on the fav 

If the ride on Anibale Fly was that bad can anyone answer the following 2 questions..

Why could be not pass the rest of the runners to finish a staying on second?

Why did he not close on the leader when he was ridden along from 4 out?

The winner won well nobody is saying otherwise,the fact of the matter is NONE of the jockeys let their horses get involved till it was too late, I said they'd let him get too far ahead after 3 fences.Fly had won a G3 the last day ffs.The winner had won a beginners lto,Fly in its last race was never far behind , and finished 30 yes thats right 30lts ahead of the third that day ,so there was no fear of him not staying.It was simply shambolic,as everyone on here knows I'd defend Irish racing to the death, but that was rancid.

watching race with me mrs, she knows nowt about horse racing( same as me ) and she said' why have they let it get so far in front they will never catch it in that ground'. now if my mrs can see it..........

irrespective of the time of the race, the going and that the winner is the next don cossack, none of the riders in behind gave their horses any chance whatsoever of winning the race and that anibale fly couldn't even finish second doesn't change a thing - the stewards, as part of the irish racing establishment, have no interest in investigating and adding credence to the opinion of many that irish racing is run for the benefit of a very select few, and ATR are never going to rock the boat over there as they're losing course by course in UK. 

as punters we have the choice on where to place our money, IMO irish racing is about one level up from FOBT and Frankel Park, best to watch, don't bet and wait until they arrive at cheltenham/aintree when they finally have to race on their merits if they're going to pay for the travel expenses..

whilst there are races in UK which merit much more scrutiny than they get in the media, press, the lack of consisten form and riding tactics in ireland just make it too much of a minefield

Correct Gordon, the lack of effort was the damning feature .

It was a complete joke, just imagine the other world wide racing establishments watching that, what do you think their opinion would be?
Complete lack of integrity after that farce, Irish racing would have been laughed at yesterday after that.
Imagine that happening in Hong Kong for example, not a chance, cause they'd all be banned for life if it did

They had it right off Wonks.  A huge gamble into 7/2 and they laid the boll ix out of the fav... blah blah blah.
The winner would have won if he had given them a 10L start.  He is very like Un De Seaux(obviously nowhere near as good)in that he handles desperate ground better than most, high cruising speed and he pinged everything.  The fav was fooked from the start because he needed something to chase the winner which never happened.  Those in behind finished legless!!!!

The trouble with Irish racing is that it's 'incestuous'.Everybody knows everybody and everybody's dog!

I was in a betting shop some years ago just outside Dublin.At first there was no-one else but all of a sudden about a dozen punters came in and

it was clear they were betting  the same horse,running in a handicap that had shown zero to date but was only 3-1.More and more people came in,

the horse duly dotted up and a good time was had by all in the pub next door!

Just watched the race and imo well done to Roger Loughran. This beast has went off at 6/1 or less in it's last ten races. Took the bull by the horns and it paid off. Well done I say.

That was probably an action reply if Coneygree had been in the race at 1/8

Don't thin the winner ever got out of a canter which made it worse!

4,5 out the other jocks new they,d foooked up,after that you dont really think b g for one was going to compound the fook up by finishing a closing 2nd,had 2 poor jumps once bg new the bird had flown,

stewarty b -  its got nothing to do with the price of the winner or a good winning ride, its the blatant lack of integrity in the other riders and in particular the stewards (whose job it is on the day to investigate but on this occasion deemed it not necessary)..I guess the 'establishment' are now hoping for the winner to go unbeaten in next 18 months and for those in behind never to win again to rubber stamp their 'wisdom'...of course they'll have ready made excuse when AB gets beat, different going blah blah

You could re-run that race 100 times and Anibale Fly would not get within 12lb of the winner over that c&d.

A tragic example of nobody doing a tap.

stewarty b -  its got nothing to do with the price of the winner or a good winning ride, its the blatant lack of integrity in the other riders and in particular the stewards (whose job it is on the day to investigate but on this occasion deemed it not necessary)..I guess the 'establishment' are now hoping for the winner to go unbeaten in next 18 months and for those in behind never to win again to rubber stamp their 'wisdom'...of course they'll have ready made excuse when AB gets beat, different going blah blah


Gordon63, ZenMaster answers for me in this particular scenario.

Feb 20, 2017 -- 11:29AM, roggrain wrote:

The trouble with Irish racing is that it's 'incestuous'.Everybody knows everybody and everybody's dog!I was in a betting shop some years ago just outside Dublin.At first there was no-one else but all of a sudden about a dozen punters came in andit was clear they were betting  the same horse,running in a handicap that had shown zero to date but was only 3-1.More and more people came in,the horse duly dotted up and a good time was had by all in the pub next door!

Yeah and horses in the UK are never given an easy lead of course

Perhaps BG was under orders to protect the stamina tank on his mount. Not a proven 3 miler on that ground. In the end that seemed to be the case, a non stayer in the bog.
No point rowing away early doors to catch a horse ploughing through the bog only to see your horse legless and tailed off and pulled up.

The winner was a different class to the others over hurdles and has extended that class gulf over fences now he has his trip and ground.

In hindsight, the market had it very wrong. Nothing to see here.

Feb 20, 2017 -- 1:59PM, MJK wrote:

Feb 20, 2017 -- 11:29AM, roggrain wrote:The trouble with Irish racing is that it's 'incestuous'.Everybody knows everybody and everybody's dog!I was in a betting shop some years ago just outside Dublin.At first there was no-one else but all of a sudden about a dozen punters came in andit was clear they were betting  the same horse,running in a handicap that had shown zero to date but was only 3-1.More and more people came in,the horse duly dotted up and a good time was had by all in the pub next door!Yeah and horses in the UK are never given an easy lead of course

There are easy leads and easy 20 length leads. If that happened in England I have no doubt there'd have been at least one ban. You just don't see races like that there unless the horse genuinely has 30 pounds in hand.

Yeah but it gets tiresome that anytime anything looks dodgy it can only happen in Ireland, according to the same people on here.

If all Jockets riding never let the horse in front ever get too far in front there would
be some real strange results

That's a challenging sentence that you there did there just post there BM

I had to read it twice but say it fast it sounds right

The fact remains , nobody tried to put their horse into the race, MJK you know I'm a stout defender of Irish racing,but that just beggered belief .

gotta be honest i much prefer the irish racing from a punting view as you get 25 runner nov hurdles but no more than 4/5 have any kind of a chance, the sheer uncompetitiveness of it makes it such value to play hoarsest the front of the market each way. ireland= each way heaven

The fact remains , nobody tried to put their horse into the race, MJK you know I'm a stout defender of Irish racing,but that just beggered belief .


Ruby tried more than most and he paid the price, perhaps?

The winner is in a different league to these class wise on deep ground over 3 miles. Time will tell but this horse is a beast on deep ground.

The handicapper was impressed.Up to a mark of 158.

Funnily enough I saw Sandra and Noel share a joke in the stands just before the race started, I wonder will she find that funny now.

Feb 20, 2017 -- 4:43PM, workrider wrote:

The fact remains , nobody tried to put their horse into the race, MJK you know I'm a stout defender of Irish racing,but that just beggered belief .

I agree. Didn't have a bet in the race but wouldn't have been happy if I had one of the others. It seems though that only Geraghty is being singled out which is also wrong imop.

158 puts him in with the place horses in the Betfair Ascot Chase behind Cue Card.

He was simply in a different league.

Feb 20, 2017 -- 7:47PM, ZenMaster wrote:

The fact remains , nobody tried to put their horse into the race, MJK you know I'm a stout defender of Irish racing,but that just beggered belief .Ruby tried more than most and he paid the price, perhaps?The winner is in a different league to these class wise on deep ground over 3 miles. Time will tell but this horse is a beast on deep ground.

Or when its allowed to show its best.

so what mark does it give graded winner aminable fly on yesterdays run,which is the real question aint it,

martin will be getting the euro,s ready for anyone thinking yesterdays winner will beat the fly next time they meet,if your convinced yesterdays race was right ,they were 6to 4, 7 to 2 ,you must have the fly at a huge price if they meet again,i,m sure mr martin will accomodate you

Or when its allowed to show its best.


First time over 3 miles on deep ground. This is his game.

so what mark does it give graded winner aminable fly on yesterdays run,which is the real question aint it, Wink


Never run over 3 miles on deep ground. This is not his game.

you,ve missed the most important piece out
3 miles,deep ground and a 50lgth start,

Is that classed as 'fake news' 1st time poster?

ran the RSA 2nd fav close on soft ground,and hosed up on bad ground at naas

Feb 20, 2017 -- 8:29PM, ZenMaster wrote:

Or when its allowed to show its best.First time over 3 miles on deep ground. This is his game.

Previous experience with this trainer, wouldn't believe her if she said night followed day

ran the RSA 2nd fav close on soft ground,and hosed up on bad ground at naas


Not true.

Anibale Fly finished 2nd to Coney Island on Good/ Yielding - ( this is not soft ground ) ran to his mark of around 148
Anibale Fly beat a horse rated 142 all out by just under a length over on yielding/soft ( was this bad ground?)

Yesterday he ran on soft/heavy over 3 miles - he was paddling in the end.

so ran to about a 100 yesterday if you think the winner ran to 158

158 is what the OR has rated that run, he is airing on the side of caution as well.

He is up there with a Smad Place just about on that rating, so if Smad Place beat them by 30+ L would you think that AF ran to a a mark of 100.

You have to recognize the class of the winner, but also that AF was all at sea on that ground over 3 miles.

Brian Sheerin in the RP on Sunday made a good case for the winner, " The step up to 3m is what he wants and he his likely to try and make a bold bid from the front on ground he loves. He should make his presense felt at least"

I backed Acapella Bourgeois on that basis but still could not believe the amount of rope he was given. The world and his wife knew what the tactics would be so dip your bread in seems to have been the order of the day and he certainly made his presense felt!

ran 4 stone below form because of the ground, your talking as though if they met again under the same conditions the fav would be a 250 to 1  shot

Connections must be looking long term now for the winner,  a soft ground National somewhere off 158, that's 3lb higher mark than Native River in the Hennessy and Welsh National.

A Lexus contender for next season?

The others were simply fluffing about watching it go clear, never at any stage did they take any interest, the winner would have to be Arkle re-incarnated to beat those horses without breaking sweat.

so easily that is.

ran 4 stone below form because of the ground, your talking as though if they met again under the same conditions the fav would be a 250 to 1  shot


I think you need to look at how conditions can create wide margin winners.

kevin blake said he was going faster the further he went,so how slow were the rest going early on to be 40 lth behind a winner that was crawling in front

Kevin Blake said he was steadily building up his advantage from the first fence to the line. That is not a question of speed but pointing out the gap continued to grow. He could have done this at a constant speed.

That horse never got such a big lead in ANY of his previous races, a good hurdler who won a couple from the front,I was in Thurles the day he nearly came down at the last under Ruby,only to rally and get back up.Fact is they allowed him too much rope, simple as that, and never gave their horses a chance.

Did they sense the leader was going too fast in those conditions over 3 miles though?

In the end, he kept up his gallop better than those 20L behind did.

Many on here will remember the mistake Roger Loughran made in a big race in Ireland a good few years back when he mistook the winning post. His career seemed to go downhill after that. A pity really because he could easily get the top job with Henderson or Nicholls. (IMHO)

Connections did keep faith with him though stewarty, he kept the ride on Central House in the main for a few years after.
I hope Acapella Burgeois carries on improving for him,  there could be a huge win coming up somewhere with this horse if conditions are right.

Feb 21, 2017 -- 12:15PM, stewarty b wrote:

Many on here will remember the mistake Roger Loughran made in a big race in Ireland a good few years back when he mistook the winning post. His career seemed to go downhill after that. A pity really because he could easily get the top job with Henderson or Nicholls. (IMHO)

He's happy to school them for this stable. Job suits him well.

Stewartb,His career did go downhill after that, I think he even went a few months without riding a winner.Tom Foley, he of Danoli  fame, did his best for him,gave him as many rides as possible,a friend of mine also put him up on one of his from that stable.I personally am delighted for the chap.

Interesting to read Donn Mcclean's piece on this race in today's Irish Field.In it he gives the actual time gap at each fence which totally disproves much of the hysteria on this thread.For those who can't read the piece it basically says that the winner extended his advantage gradually through the race and was further in front at the line than any other point of the race.

I still ask a question that I asked earlier...Why did the field not close on the winner from the end of the back straight when they were being much more vigorously ridden than the horse in front?

It will be fascinating to see how many (if any) reply.

According to Simon Rowlands in today's Irish Field .
The winner was gifted a sizable early lead_at which stage he was running up to ten lengths SLOWER than par for the conditions_and continued to increase the advantage,even when the jockeys on his rivals finally got serious in pursuing him.

It took Acapella Bourgeois 155 seconds to go from the 1st fence down the back to the last fence in the home straight on the first circuit. On the second circuit it took him 144 seconds to cover that same ground. He was cantering when building up his lead on the first circuit. The lengths ahead of the second is totally misleading here because the 2 horses who occupied second place at a point in the race ran extremely different races.

Custom Cut...While the same horse was not in second all the time he still extended his advantage over every horse in the race throughout the last mile especially.While pace is obviously a factor it still remains a fact that he went faster than the rest for the first 2 miles.Despite expecting more energy over that part of the race he was able to extend his lead over rivals who were harder ridden.I am asking the question why they did not close?

Workrider you had a losing bet on the race which seemed to trigger your post.You claimed the leader was at least 12 seconds in front which was a huge exaggeration.I am asking the same question of you as Custom Cut.

I am not saying the the rest of the runners got very good rides.I am just wondering how the result could have been different?

Agreed Tolmi I had a losing bet on the race,a not unusual occurrence I might add,in fact I have had MANY a losing bet,and likely as not will have a few more @ Naas today.But rarely do I rush home full of anger as I did last Sunday.What happened was shambolic and i make no apologies for what I said,it simply brought Irish racing into disrepute imo .If you read Rowlands comments below,it begs the question,how was he allowed build up such an advantage while going so SLOWLY.

Workrider, you need to only look at the way the others finished the race - legless - to see that they went a proper gallop in the conditions.Had they gone any faster earlier they couldn't have finished. The winner was simply in a different league. The stewards were dead right not to hold an enquiry.There was nothing to see apart from a superb performance from AB. Brought Irish racing into disrepute my hole.Do yourself a favour and just let it go.

Firstimevisor,well how then do you account for the fact they went so SLOWLY at the start that NONE were asked to stay will him. Now if he was BOMBING along early doors then I could understand your argument, fact is the clock shows otherwise.

Well if they went too slowly early on then why were they going up and down on the spot at the finish? They should have been closing on the winner and finishing their race off well. These are experienced jockeys, their job is to go off at a pace they can maintain to the line,which they just about managed to do.

As an example there was a bumper in Leopardstown a few years back where the rest of the jockeys allowed a rag a huge lead. They ignored the leader and crawled in behind. The pack were mowing the leader down and practically sprinting at the end. All the beaten amateur jocks got a holiday.What happened last Sunday was completely different.They just couldn't live with the winner.

The early clock tells a different story mate.

The late clock tells me all I need to know

Well if that's the case it blows you case out of the water!.You seem to think that he was bombing it the whole way round,when in fact he was going so slow he was way BEHIND average.Great logic mate...

My argument is simple workrider, if they got the fractions wrong and went too slow early they would have been accelerating and closing late.

What actually happened is that the winner went a faster pace  than the others all through the race right to the line despite never having to come under pressure.

Not sure what your argument is cos its not making much sense

Sectionals show both Haymount and Road To Respect ran way faster on the second circuit than the first, some early gallop that. My opinion is most in the race ran a shocker but were still ridden so poorly as to warrant a ban. Road To Respect was by far the least efficiently ridden and should've got way closer as he ran perfectly well. Here's the full sectional analysis from Declan Meagher:

http://www.cheltenhamtips.ie/acapella-bourgeois-performance-tells-us-stewards-right-not-hold-inquiry/

Feb 26, 2017 -- 8:35AM, Tolmi wrote:

Custom Cut...While the same horse was not in second all the time he still extended his advantage over every horse in the race throughout the last mile especially.While pace is obviously a factor it still remains a fact that he went faster than the rest for the first 2 miles.Despite expecting more energy over that part of the race he was able to extend his lead over rivals who were harder ridden.I am asking the question why they did not close?Workrider you had a losing bet on the race which seemed to trigger your post.You claimed the leader was at least 12 seconds in front which was a huge exaggeration.I am asking the same question of you as Custom Cut.I am not saying the the rest of the runners got very good rides.I am just wondering how the result could have been different?

He didn't extend over every horse throughout the last mile. At 7 out Road To Respect was 8.2 seconds behind, he was only 6.05 seconds behind 2 out.

The allegation that this is simply pocket talking is too easy. In fact I backed the winner having decided that the torrent of money for it pre race was simply too smelly to ignore. The subsequent race was laughable, if they are going to steal people's money at least don't make it so obvious next time eh?

Getting ready to leave for Naas shortly, lets hope there no repeat of last week.

imo  you can forget anything that happened in the later stages the jocks behind new by then they dropped a clanger and wernt going to compound it by giving their horse a hard finish and still get beat and prove they,d run  an injudicious race, imo

the favs performed on the ground before,the trainer was happy to run it ,but in a race you claim to  be run on its merits its ran 40 lb below its best

My sincere apologies.One horse closed up by a massive almost 2 seconds at 1 point in the last  mile.This obviously blows all my theories out of the water.

Strange however that you never mention an eased down AB extending this advantage from the second last to the line despite the second being much harder ridden.

cant wait to see how these horses are priced up next time they run,theres little chance of anyone backing with real money their opinions on here
any race besides a grade 1 you can have your life on the winner
unless its dropped stones you couldnt touch the fav
but we no it wont play out like that if the winner gets beat trainer jockey etc wil say it got an easy lead in a funny race last time,if the fav runs back to its mark the connections will say the same

and f course if you believe what you read on here under similar conditions its always going to get an easy lead because anyone trying to lay up closer will be finished by halfway,

Well said 1st,Custom and Captain also seem to see the race for what it really was ,a shambles..Naas here we come!

Form already franked by edwulf today
Won't be long until AB will be surpassing sprinter sacre' peak rating

You're taking the mickey Cheltenham, he fell after the 3nd in that race if I remember correctly . He had the Price wise curse on him at Navan....

best horse won

No doubt of that Duncan,its the manner it was ALLOWED win that annoys me.

AB was gifted the race, and the stewards turned a blind eye to it; it will be proven in his next race, whichever that might be.