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Sportsadvisor
09 Jan 17 07:41
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Date Joined: 30 Oct 04
| Topic/replies: 710 | Blogger: Sportsadvisor's blog
http://wp.me/p3WtYX-xw
Have your say on racing post's front page headline inferring ring culpable in rule 4 rigging
Pause Switch to Standard View Geoff Banks 'roast' of Bruce Millington
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Report blunder January 9, 2017 2:15 PM GMT
If bookmakers are shortening prices ,in case of "late uncontrollable action "  it  is something that I never did when I was a bookmaker,
and is not something I have ever seen since.To be fair ,I operate in the Midlands ,so can't speak for the southern markets.
Report WFT January 9, 2017 2:19 PM GMT
You can imagine him at school saying "Look at me, look at me".....

Perhaps, he should have paid more attention to his English teacher, at the very least, and his piece may have been legible.
Report The Headmaster January 9, 2017 2:25 PM GMT
It's quite something when an OP manages to get the forum rooting for Bruce in a match.  Quite an astonishing effort here, Geoffrey - keep posting.
Report Johnny_Mustang January 9, 2017 2:30 PM GMT
^ Only mid-January and already a contender for 'post of the year'.
Report oneyallbeenwaiting4 January 9, 2017 2:49 PM GMT
the OP believes man walked on the moon Laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmoiwjXepHM
Report foxy January 9, 2017 3:02 PM GMT
why would you want that metro john ?
Report Big Boss January 9, 2017 3:13 PM GMT
Thanks Geoff, look forward to your next blog post "I didn't take brown envelopes off the oncourse reps to shorten up a fav one minute prior to the off, honestly guv"
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:11 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 3:02PM, foxy wrote:


why would you want that metro john ?


Hello foxy, If the big three start their own terminals in the offices based on the exchange mode(tote), then perhaps we can have competitive prices?, the oncours gang offer nothing, every punter with a mind is on their phone. (have I missed something foxy?)

Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:13 PM GMT
How often do on-course bookmakers better Betfair prices? any special offers?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:16 PM GMT
Currently, on-course punters(those that can afford to go, are fleeced on transport charges, fleeced on race-course entrance and then fleeced by non competitive on-course market(their choice)
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:17 PM GMT
Let alone food and beverages?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:18 PM GMT
Will stick with me cup of tea in my warm chair, without the extra costs that only the wealthy can afford tar!
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:18 PM GMT
they often offer better e/w prices and on many occasions you will beat the betfair price on the shorter ones even not taking comm into account .

but why would you wont to foooked the bookie rabble off ?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:19 PM GMT
Explained above, with the chains now merging the tote would have been a better option. (The mob rule)
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:20 PM GMT
you sound a bundle of fun does that go for holidays,restaurants,and any other leisure time ?
Report dambuster January 9, 2017 4:20 PM GMT
GB, How many, photos of bank cards,photos of individuals holding their passports and  photos of statements, do you now require to withdraw money from your firm ?, and how many weeks does it now take , once you've sent it to your legal team to check that everything is in order .?
Is it still around 4/5 weeks or less now ?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:20 PM GMT
Place Market on it's own would help, but alas,,,,,,,
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:21 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:20PM, foxy wrote:


you sound a bundle of fun does that go for holidays,restaurants,and any other leisure time ?


yes, I am just poor foxy, I wish you happiness , but I will say it like it is from my view!

Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:22 PM GMT
many on course books will lay you place only but as you never leave the house you would not know that enjoy your cup of tea.
Report aberdonia January 9, 2017 4:23 PM GMT
i have a GB account.

you dont have to provide any ID to open/withdraw money.

tbf, i have only placed 2 bets in 18 months with Geoff.

I agree with most of what he has written.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:23 PM GMT
Drop in TV figures probably down to the envy by the poor of a sport they can no longer afford?
Report aberdonia January 9, 2017 4:23 PM GMT
Facts and John must be related.

I bet they moan about service when they are eating out too. Happy
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:24 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:22PM, foxy wrote:


many on course books will lay you place only but as you never leave the house you would not know that enjoy your cup of tea.


?? not when i visit.

Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:24 PM GMT
you are perfectly entitled to your view metro john and i accept the recent publicity the on course books are getting is not good but believe me there are plenty of decent ones out there who just wont to play a fair game.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:24 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:23PM, aberdonia wrote:


Facts and John must be related.I bet they moan about service when they are eating out too.


Oh you are awful, but I like you!

Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:26 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:24PM, foxy wrote:


you are perfectly entitled to your view metro john and i accept the recent publicity the on course books are getting is not good but believe me there are plenty of decent ones out there who just wont to play a fair game.


Punter costs are killing the game. Nothing personal, it is not just a bookmaker problem, it involves the economy.

Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:26 PM GMT
i must admit very few display place only bets taken it is something i will address as your not the first to mention it.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:26 PM GMT
They never will!
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:26 PM GMT
and if they do they will be shorter than Betfair.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:27 PM GMT
cost are ridiculous in this country hotels and bang average hotels are my biggest bug bearer.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:27 PM GMT
they never will what ?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:29 PM GMT
I was looking at going to the Greyhound Derby next year(I don't drive), Towcester 10mile from nearest train station, £25 taxi+, Hotels at towcester are few, and £90 + per night, you gotta travel to get cheap by the train station, what a nightmare, I will not be going!
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:31 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:27PM, foxy wrote:


they never will what ?


They are not allowed to on many courses?

Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:31 PM GMT
you have lost me here 1626 post ?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:32 PM GMT
Christ they are charging £18 in Worcester.
Report equine flew January 9, 2017 4:32 PM GMT
Often heard on track..  Ladbr0kes rep to bookie...

"What price is Dancing Music?"

"5/2 sir"

"Great, can I have £500 at 7/4 please".

"With pleasure!".

Horse cut to 7/4.. Still 3.8 on here.  Everyones a winner.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:33 PM GMT
^ that sounds about correct. If they even take any cash?
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:33 PM GMT
equine very few books were ever involved in that.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 4:34 PM GMT
Still goes on.Corporate power.
Report equine flew January 9, 2017 4:43 PM GMT
Wolves management seem to think it happens..

SUSPICIONS that starting prices at British race meetings are being fixed in order to save the betting industry thousands of pounds per race emerged on Friday in an extraordinary warning letter to on-course bookmakers written by management at Wolverhampton.

The shock claim was made in a letter to all Wolverhampton pitch holders from David Roberts, managing director at the all-weather venue, amid concerns they may have been in breach of a rule which resulted in "distorting artificially the betting market or starting price".

In his letter, Roberts said: "The racecourse has recently become aware that some bookmakers may be in danger of contravening [the] requirement by laying off-course hedging money at starting price rather than the prevailing fixed odds price at the time the bet was struck."

If an on-course bookmaker was to lay a big firm hedging into the ring at starting price as opposed to the show at the time, this would result in the layer saving money should the horse win. More importantly, in betting markets with few bookmakers, the firm hedging are aware that the starting price is very likely to be notably lower than the show at the time.

Roberts refused to confirm or deny whether he or any of his staff had witnessed the process happening, but revealingly his letter said: "We have observed the impact of the this practice in the betting ring and it is the racecourse's view that such behaviour invites accusations of price fixing and collusion which, consequently, may jeopardise the racecourse's premises licence and compromise the integrity of the betting ring."

There were 1,170 bookmakers in attendance at 97 meetings at Wolverhampton last year, an average of 12 per meeting, and at Friday's meeting as is often the case throughout the winter they bet from a position inside the grandstand standing shoulder to shoulder.

Wolverhampton is one of a number of all-weather tracks, with a weak on-course market, where on occasions over the last few months starting prices of certain runners have been returned notably shorter than the final show and, in some circumstances, in contrast to a drift of the betting exchanges.

Such instances give rise to accusations of manipulation of starting prices but the organisation which monitors returns, the Starting Price Regulatory Commission has so far opted not to take action.

Robin Grossmith of the Federation of Racecourse Bookmakers on Friday night said he was unaware of any accusations against individual bookmakers.

"It has always been the case that you mustn't conduct yourself in a manner against the rules," he said. "It is now in the racecourse terms and conditions of entry and it appears all they are doing is flagging up the rules.

"Perhaps, I don't know, somebody has observed something up there."

Wolverhampton's shot across the bows of bookmakers was welcomed by the Racecourse Association. Caroline Davies, the RCA's services director, was pleased that Roberts' letter raised concerns not only in respect of the track's legal requirements but also for punters betting on British horseracing.

"We endorse the actions of Wolverhampton racecourse and believe it to be the correct action to take in terms of both the licencing requirements and in protecting the integrity of the SP," she said.
Report Magic__Daps January 9, 2017 4:47 PM GMT
Foxy I think some will agree that there are some decent books out there, BUT the last few times I have been to Taunton, Chepstow, Cheltenham I just bet on my phone at the course or beforehand. It is only because you look across all the boards and all are generally flashing exactly the same prices, and when there is nobody taking a price they still get changed as it seems all are linked to this place.

Years ago you would search out a price for yourself and that was part of the buzz, getting into the ring and taking on the books etc. Now you hear some geezer behind the book on his laptop shouting to change a price when you are waiting to back it and they haven't even taken a bet on it. This may not be everyone but it seems to be the case whenever I go racing.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:48 PM GMT
equine

as i said only a few were ever involved.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:52 PM GMT
so metro john you want the race courses to foooked all the bookies of who pay them fortunes a year to bet and pay for numerous staff to enter the race course you want betfair to provide terminals {giving the likes of mr best and his like even more outlets }yet your not prepared to support either as you prefer to sit in a warm chair with a cup of tea.
Report McCoy Carp January 9, 2017 4:56 PM GMT
^^^ Offer something that is worth coming to the races for.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:58 PM GMT
in fact why dont you see if the greyhound association will move the greyhound derby to your local track ?
Report foxy January 9, 2017 4:59 PM GMT
cash
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:00 PM GMT
2.96 ON HERE, 2/1 ON EVERY RACE COURSE I STAND NO COMMISSION,NO PREMIUM CHARGE,STANDARD EWAY TERMS EVERY RACE WHICH BEATS ALL EXCHANGE PLACE MARKETS WHERE YOU CANT GET A TENNER ON,COME RACING!
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:05 PM GMT
FACT,PUNTERS HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD AS THEY HAVE ON THE RACECOURSES I ATTEND FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS,THE ALTERNATIVES DONT EVEN COME CLOSE!
Report McCoy Carp January 9, 2017 5:05 PM GMT
You're dinosaurs, last of a dying breed, you have failed to face up to competition and deserve all you get. You are in a similar situation to what the pub game is/was now. The smoking ban, cheap supermarket booze, the pubs that have survived have had to adapt, put on entertainment, get Sky in, do food, make them family friendly. There's so much more vying for peoples money now than say 10-20 years ago. What do on course bookies do to get punters back that use to come to the races looking for a bet? Absolutely feck all.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:06 PM GMT
12 pubs/bars opened in hereford in 2016
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:07 PM GMT
how are you factmachine ?
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:07 PM GMT
THE BENT SP SYSTEM BEARS LITTLE OR NO RESEMBLNCE TO PRICES BEING OFFERED IN THE BETTING RING!
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:08 PM GMT
OK FOXY BUT IT WILL BE ALONG WAY BACK!
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:09 PM GMT
PLUS THESE LUNATICS THAT HAVE NEVER SET FOOT ON A RACECOURSE THAT POST ON HERE ARE SENDING MY BLOOD PRESSURE THROUGH THE ROOFLaughLaughLaugh
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:11 PM GMT
hopefully not to long factmachine its always good fun to listen to the bol.ox you talk live Whoops
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:14 PM GMT
WHAT LIKE WHY ARE YOU BETTING 1/5Whoops
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:16 PM GMT
did you see chapman running around the betting ring on saturday at sandown ?
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:18 PM GMT
YES I DID,SUMS IT UP WHEN HE COULDNT FIND A BOOK IN TATTS BETTING 1/4Cry
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:19 PM GMT
YOU EXPECT THE FRONT LINE TO BE 1/5 BUT NOT THE WHOLE RING!
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:21 PM GMT
probably our biggest own goal.
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:21 PM GMT
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:22 PM GMT
pick 51 bets 1/4 but i would think he was at wincanton.
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:22 PM GMT
STANDARD PLACE TERMS EVERY RACE WITH ME ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, OH AND YOU CAN BE ON!
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:23 PM GMT
i mean the vote
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:24 PM GMT
SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS WHEN YOU HAVE MILLIONAIRES BETTING IN PICK NUMBER ONE IN TATTS AND TO A MAN THEY WOULD ALMOST ALL BET TO 1/5 THROUGH OUT THE COUNTRY!
Report factmachine January 9, 2017 5:25 PM GMT
AS YOUR EARLIER POSTS STATE FOXY,THE GREED OF SOME PEOPLE HAS TO BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED!
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:28 PM GMT
its not going to go away it needs sorting out there should be no option.if books choose to bet win only then fine.
Report mincer11 January 9, 2017 5:47 PM GMT
I agree with you foxy, it should be the standard terms or win only, no other option should be even considered.
In fairness to the on course books, it is hard to price a handicap at 1/4 odds when the place book is showing 93%.
Punters do not understand that its not viable to bet to those terms, but it makes the bookies look bad when they are betting 1/5 odds when the place terms should be 1/4.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 5:52 PM GMT
its as simple as that mincer there are many races where the place terms are very kind to us.
Report mincer11 January 9, 2017 5:59 PM GMT
Yes of course there are. An option for the bookies are to bet win only and still allow the smaller punters on who are oblivious to the fact that its win only. I think what the bookies want ideally to be able to do is to bet win only and each way to small stakes.
The type of bet that they certainly wont want to lay is 800/100 ew something thats tight enough on the win and about 2.6 on the place.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
you tend to get a few regulars each time you bet and even if you are betting win only most would always let them bet each way.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:31 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:52PM, foxy wrote:


so metro john you want the race courses to foooked all the bookies of who pay them fortunes a year to bet and pay for numerous staff to enter the race course you want betfair to provide terminals {giving the likes of mr best and his like even more outlets }yet your not prepared to support either as you prefer to sit in a warm chair with a cup of tea.


Only bet what you can afford, and go where you can afford to go(that means group1 racing ruled out for me) must feed the kids and pay the bills first , not a lot of change left out of £300 a week. Sad but true.Cry

Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:34 PM GMT
it costs me £60 to get to bath from brum (just 98mile) £18 + to get in and the bus is probably in the £5-£6 region now, not having any food or drinks on course and having to sneak food and drink through the gates, not allowed at Worcester food and drink, £4.50 a pint in most places, good job I dried up years ago hey?
Report foxy January 9, 2017 6:35 PM GMT
Devil
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:36 PM GMT
Yes that leaves me £200 to pay the bills and feed, you must try it sometime!
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:37 PM GMT
No entertainment for rest of month? and Vigin media subscription and phone must be taken into account.
Report foxy January 9, 2017 6:38 PM GMT
i wish i had that much in the winter.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:39 PM GMT
Hotels? I use hostels, no holidays if I go racing. RACING NEEDS TO WAKE UP!
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:42 PM GMT
Minimum bets foxy?
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:43 PM GMT
Still got out the habit of using bookmakers years ago, I must be close to a reformed small time recreational gambling addict(I do love it)
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:46 PM GMT
Foxy remember that working hours and patterns deters most potential racegoers, the 24 hour society(greed) as all but killed most pastimes.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:47 PM GMT
Stopped going to football 20 years ago(it is not our game anymore)
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:50 PM GMT
Bookmakers who stick signs up saying mo bet higher than £10 may do better business, as silly as it may seem,. The opposite(general practice) i can assure you scares the poor away.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 6:56 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:58PM, foxy wrote:


in fact why dont you see if the greyhound association will move the greyhound derby to your local track ?


Rumour not fact as it that badblokes did not want the event????????

Report SlippyBlue January 9, 2017 7:31 PM GMT
Monmore didn't want it, to me that would have been the perfect running surface. Towcester have got the greyhound Derby, what a joke of a track.
Report metro john January 9, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
Take ya binoculars!
Report metro john January 9, 2017 7:34 PM GMT
Yes slippyBlue, I agree, Hotels , Train station 5mins from track, Birmingham just 25 minutes away also, the farmers win again.
Report IanP January 9, 2017 7:43 PM GMT
I thought the Gambling Commission had stopped on course books offering place only ?

Couldn't have the Derby at Monmore .. the going is too inconsistant.
Report wondersobright January 9, 2017 7:51 PM GMT
SlippyBlue • January 9, 2017 7:31 PM GMT
Monmore didn't want it, to me that would have been the perfect running surface


slippy, its been hideously slow for months and needs completely re-laying

the surface at towcester is much better but the actual shape of the circuit is laughable
Report mincer11 January 9, 2017 7:58 PM GMT
I know of a couple of lads who were interested in sourcing a dog for the greyhound derby in England next year. Two guys who wouldnt have minded ponying up 50k for the right model. The intention was to get a run in the derby and have a few weekends in and around London, with the possibility of going deep into the competition.
I know for certain that if they got the dog for nothing they wouldnt  to go Towcester, just absolutely no interest in going to some place out in the middle of nowhere.
The English Derby was a fantastic competition when it was held in London, but whoever thought of having it in Towcester was off their rocker.
Report wondersobright January 9, 2017 8:03 PM GMT
sadly the chances of the greyhound derby being held in london again this century are between slim and none
Report mincer11 January 9, 2017 8:07 PM GMT
Well they can forget about greyhound racing in Britain then, because for most Irish people the big attraction was coming to London, the dogs were only part of the experience. And without the Irish, then the same as Cheltenham would be, the English greyhound derby is a dead rubber.
Report wondersobright January 9, 2017 8:09 PM GMT
agree 100%
Report metro john January 9, 2017 8:28 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2017 -- 8:03PM, wondersobright wrote:


sadly the chances of the greyhound derby being held in london again this century are between slim and none


Will give the rest of the Nation a chance. So sick to death of this London must hold every great sporting spectacle!

Report metro john January 9, 2017 8:29 PM GMT
Most northern lads would agree!
Report wondersobright January 9, 2017 8:43 PM GMT
I'm a yorkshireman MJ so I understand exactly what you mean but the sport needs a presence in london as that is where the strongest concentration of wealth is

its the natural home of the sport's flagship event but its all gone now so got to move on and get behind towcester
Report Facts January 9, 2017 8:52 PM GMT

metro john    09 Jan 17 16:24 
Jan 9, 2017 -- 4:23PM, aberdonia wrote:

Facts and John must be related.I bet they moan about service when they are eating out too.

Oh you are awful, but I like you!



I don't
Report boingingbaggie January 9, 2017 11:11 PM GMT
Easy to see why Banks isn't a writer.

The**** was all that ramble?
Report dunlaying January 10, 2017 11:14 AM GMT
He used to be an articulate fellow.
Report dunlaying January 10, 2017 11:16 AM GMT
As an aside.
Happy New Year Mr Banks. Any chance of opening a Deposit Account?Happy
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