ANYONE ELSE ON HERE HAD A LOSING YEAR -apart from me ?

Losing year ffs how about a losing decade !

Sorry mate just you all too shrewd on here to lose unless telling surely not

Me but mostly on football doesn't matter wot i do bet or lay got it wrong most of the year so glad to see the back of it.If i have the same year as this next year im quitting too stressful.

Signing in.

yep first since 2008

another £200 down

Signed in

I Blame

Global WARMING

Been on Betfair a long time - about 12 years .
Reckon have had FOUR winning years and EIGHT losing ones . Overall I am down since joining .
Suddenly ,to me ,it seems harder to win on here .
Got to think of a new stratedgy for 2017 .

lost...........again

a honest thread..........a collectors item

They used to reckon that circa 98% of punters lost on here after taking commission into account .
I wonder if anyone has up to date figures of WINNING punters on here -over the average year .
I reckon 98% LOSERS is about right .
So many "names" on here have vanished over the past ten years - presumably because they went skint ?
After all its hard to stop when you are winning .
I have lost count of the number of punters who joined Betfair  ,then had a few winning weeks and decided to pack their job in and go full time on here . !!
What tales of woe they would have to tell ?? !!

I would say I have kust about lost 5 figures (10k) this year.   Have had a few excellent months and treated myself with those months, Vegas and Dubai trips.   Overall a lot of fun though

about 2 % make a Profit of 20 k or more
that doesnt mean there are 98 % losers

Done a Grand this year done about the same last Year,

because I once played with marked cards am still overall

in front in the fifteen odd years I have been on here. good luck.

Down about the same amount as usual. Only expect to win in one year in 4.

Signing in -

I, also, have found it tougher this year - I have been looking for excuses - eventually settled for the fact that I have been distracted by a couple of family issues .....

But, I am not convinced as I have still worked hard in 2016 - the markets are probably really tight these days - oh, for the early days of Betfair ....

Nevertheless, I am looking forward to 2017 - my report card says "Must do better".

Second consecutive losing year on the Flat/AW, including a double figure run of 2nd places which was enough to make me consider completely give up betting on the Flat game. Recently checked back over my selections on the flat and if I'd given each loser another couple of chances I would have recorded the best profit figure I've ever achieved, which included the St Leger winner which I backed at Royal Ascot but got touched off by an AP O'Brien 6th string rag...that one hurt! And numerous other decent priced winners. Thankfully the NH profits (which are well down on last year) have helped keep the wolves from door and a crusty loaf on the table.

Happy New Year!

Winnings from Betfair are my only income.  I'm looking for a job in the new year, the first time for 16 years.

Thanks to Brexit and President Trump I'm up for the first time in years

As only approx 2% win in the long term,I'm not surprised. imo if you've broken level or lost a relatively small amount you've done well. lets be honest, its a waste of time in realty.
If you are lucky to win in 2017 Dik you will only  be getting a fraction of your losses back.
Maybe it's time to accept defeat. I did 2yrs ago.not worth the stress and aggro.Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Since the merger with pp it has become much harder on here. Bots are running amok, liquidity has deteriorated, mistakes are being made with settling of bets and sportsbook won't take 1 banana to lose 5. Other than that, it's all good

Since the merger with pp it has become much harder on here. Bots are running amok, liquidity has deteriorated, mistakes are being made with settling of bets and sportsbook won't take 1 banana to lose 5. Other than that, it's all good

Well done to all fellow 2%ers and better luck to the 98%ers!

Something happened about August time on the horse racing markets.  A new player/s entered the market.  Possibly PP traders? certainly things changed enough to take money off me.

Dec 31, 2016 -- 4:11PM, MadVlad wrote:

Losing year ffs how about a losing decade !

I've been playing for 9 years and 2017 will hopefully be my last .... if I can't break even

It started as a bit of fun .....soon it occupied most of my waking hours

Overall in 9 years 6 losing 3 break even and 1 winning which has been absorbed by the previous losses ... if that makes sense

Expensive hobby Good Luck all 2017 ....

Least profitable year since 2004, up approx £12,000.

If you are disciplined and not greedy then yes you can win money on here but not life changing money, unless of course you have a edge such as privy to inside info or fast pics like a phew on ere

Making upwards of £1K per month is easily obtainable but that would just be like a top up to your existing income.

I think for most on here its just a bit of fun

just looked at my account since started with new payment about 3 years ago and I'm up about 220 pounds not a lot but really enjoying this month  winning between here and books.

Accounts checked its been a good year so tomorrow starts another campaign

I've won - but not on here. Not sure what I'm going to do if my betting ever becomes exchange only

+ 299 points

Down on here; up with the books thanks to a good Cheltenham and December. For some reason this place lulls me into too many impulse bets at big prices.

had 11 winning yrs..this yr the worst.

Won 300 bags. Thanks for asking

doing my pieces, Im just lucky I know which corner to stand on in Kings Cross so I can reload my BF account

Dec 31, 2016 -- 11:19PM, roida wrote:

had 11 winning yrs..this yr the worst.

F#ck me it's Pinocchio!

On here full time and had worst ever year ,but family in good health ,and that is more important. Must not repeat the errors
of last year,easier said than done !

been a dreadful year, worst I can ever remember, glad to see the back of it.

all square so far

Thanks for all the replies . Some interesting posts .
Its amazing how  long many who responded to the question have been on here. Many for 10 years or more .
At the end of the day Betfair is a pretty good entertaining vehicle -and we have to pay for it .
It would appear that most agree that its NOW HARDER TO WIN ON HERE than in previous years . Is it somehow connected to the PP merger ? How have the various markets been affected ?
Those that pay normal commission PLUS the dreaded Premium Charge must be finding it harder than ever to make a living ?
A living wage these days is a minimum of £25,000 a year so you need to make at least £500 every week to survive .
Interesting that even old war horse ROIDA (legend WARWICK HUNT TO MANY OLD TIMERS !?)has found it much harder to turn a decent profit .
The basic fact remains this - the great majority of us on Betfair are destined to lose over time ! A lot of posters seem in denial about this simple fact .
Once you accept it -this is a much more enjoyable experience . We are simply paying for our hours of entertaintment and amusement .

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE A CRACK AT MAKING A PROFIT IN  2017 !
We all need a good year every now and again to keep us interested in the game .
Most gamblers are eternal optimists -with the life changing "big win" just around the corner .
For the odd one it does happen .
LETS HOPE ITS ME !!

Is definitely harder than it was. My view is that there are far fewer recreational punters and a higher proportion of shrewd money plus you are now taking on increasingly sophisticated robots and computerised betting systems. That and a lack of liquidity which means it is effectively SP bets only unless you play in very small stakes or exclusively at the head of the market makes it a lot harder to get an edge.

in total agreement Barton...been full time for 12 odd years now...last year worst ever and barely a wage made when compared to hours spent.

I am wining this year.Backed first winner.Think i will pack up now.

There must be a lot of truth in what you say Barton Bank .I have never got round to using all the available technical wizardry .That probably puts me at an immediate disadvantage ?
Am a bit old in the tooth to start now perhaps .

Talking of available technology I remember being astounded when I was actually given a receipt for the bet I had just placed in a local Betting Office . Prior to that you had to make a rough copy of your own bet before you placed it - which obviously lead to many punter disputes -plus "winning" bets placed AFTER TIME !

My best years on here were between 2005-2010. 2015 was excellent, last year was much harder. The way I see it liquidity can only decline further because Betfair will continue to push all new customers on to the Sportsbook. This will probably be my last season playing to my current stakes (just can't get on anything without moving the price against myself, either everyone wants to back the same horses or it is the robots/momentum traders polarising the markets).

Aye, DD. I just can't be arsed learning to play the techies at their own game. Would rather retire than do that tbh.

nope. everyone wins on the forum ;)

In 2015 I decided to have a go at doing things properly after 20 odd years of trying and losing. I subscribed to Proform, Racing Post online edition, started keeping a record of all my bets and at the end of August I was £12k up from average stakes of around £80. By middle of October, I had lost the lot, nearly lost my mind and had to break into a cash ISA to keep me in the game. I finished the year £3.2K up.

2016 I set out to win £10k, reduced my average stake to £50 and beginning of June I had won over £5k and was going along nicely towards my target. Then exactly the same thing happened, towards the end of July I had lost the lot again, and  although dispirited, it forced me to have a long hard look at my records to try & figure where I was going wrong? Looking back I could see, big field h'caps where i was backing 2 or 3 in a race trying to try a big price one were my undoing, leading to losses and big losing runs (think Pricewise) along with laying and ew betting. More than anything, I'd had enough of the horrendous losing runs, sometimes 50+ or more, that even though I didn't chase, affected me.

From then on I decided to ignore any race where the Proform tissue was 9/2 bar the field, ceased ew betting, laying, backing more than one in a race, and to make it worthwhile and cover Proform and Racing Post I upped my minimum/average stakes to £100. Since making the change I have had 116 winners from 524, approx 22% strike rate bets, finished the year £6675 up and as importantly (so far, I know it will happen) haven't as yet had a serious losing run.

I'm trying to prepare myself for the move to the exchange if it has to happen, and after looking back at the results I don't think I could of had the same amount of bets and showed a profit. The only angle I can come up with is putting the early price I obtain in @ SP with a limit. For example, if I get 4-1 early about a horse, I put it in @ 5.2 on the exchange to cover commission. looking back and doing this, I would of given me 35 winners from 188 bets for a 30 points profit or approx 19% strike rate for roughly 16% roi.

It's a small sample size, but an angle I intend to explore as from today with £50 satkes as well as more normal early morning bets with the bookies. Good luck all in 2017.

A complex reply McCoy . Not certain I understand it all .
But if it works for you -then carry on .
You obviously put a lot of thought into what you do .

Basically, I don't back any horse on the Proform racecard that has a tissue price above 4-1, even though I am looking to get better than the tissue price - I think we all can relate to that. This has reduced my number of bets, reduced my time spent studying in the morning, reduced my losing runs (so far) and increased my ROI. Hope that helps - lol.

I ended the year £2,100 in front average horse bet £40 this profit is due to the last 3 months. I have learned that better class chases is where I am profitable and I would have lost more during the flat season but I was working a lot.

managed to fritter away a profit of £2200 to a loss of £968 since end of october.

Can you get a £25 bet on the Sportsbook on here regularly Dik?

2017 hasn't started well for me that's for sure.

I've been on here eight years and have shovelled the same grand or so back and forth for most of it. Some seasons a big double and some big prices will push me into small profit. The first two years were ridiculous. Eventually I got to some rules. No serious bets in anything but handicaps - but not three year old handicaps. They are licence for the bookie to print money, as indeed it all is. No claimers, no sellers, no Group races, no Classics, no bumpers, no juveniles, no 2-year-olds, no level weight stuff. I've had good Flat seasons and bad Flat seasons, ditto jumps.

I reckon two or three seasons in each code have been nicely profitable, the rest have been just up or just under. This year on the Flat was my worst ever. I think a very wet and cold spring and disease-ridden yards made for that. I am a fairly shrewd form student in my field I think.
In Flat and NH I never back a horse that's on a mark higher than its last winning mark, unless it's a young improving sort but then I tend to not bet. You see how often that is an incredibly fast way of disposing of a field, and 8 times out of 10 you will be right. The only real inside information you have is the the Handicapper is licensed to stop horses, so observe his work. Most people don't. Look at Racing Post tippers, time and time again they pick some crappy favourite and justify it with 'he's only up x lb from his win at Nottingham'. Yeah, but that was on firm and now he's going uphill at Brighton in the rain. Etc.

I used to do well at Royal Ascot but more by luck than judgement. This year I realised how much it's about unknown quantities. As a bettor, you simply don't want that. The jumps go wrong for me almost from Jan as so many races are skewed by tactics for Cheltenham in March. I've had some great touches in both codes but here's the thing you forget when you're on a winning run, how quickly this game just wears you out. It is an absurdly complicated business anyway without all the extra trickery brought in to make sure you lose. Sod's Law is at its most vicious in this game, the most esoteric form of sports gambling ever devised.

Where the exchange can be good is placing horses. The mainstream bookies' e/w terms and margins are an insult. But you can make some money with place markets. One thing I believe that causes losing runs even with successful horseplayers is changing conditions ie mid season, early season, back end and weather. I have had brilliant jumps seasons and then from March to July lose the lot on the Flat. What the punter needs is a stable and fairly unchanging race calendar that he can specialise in. For this reason I am doing no Turf betting at all in 2017. Just all-weather. Of course it's hard on a day of 'good' racing on Turf to concentrate on donkey races on sand, but guess what? That is where I have been most consistently profitable.

9 good years of punting..mainly bookies
Then 2016  worst year in 10 bookies & exchange

2017 : a good start tho

mind u..1 swallow...

My last losing day was in July 2014.

Had a good year for a change and came close to having a decent multiple up on a few occasions, best win just over 6k in 2016.

I will be well pleased if this year is half as good. That said I enjoy having a dabble every day and whilst I have pretty much stopped going racing still enjoy watching the sport on the box. My one wish for 2017 is that we will get more competive races, not hpeful though tbh.

Still good luck to you all in the coming months. Have fun.

basically gambling is very tough and most people lose.

if someone said to you, you can play this game against a more skillful opponent for money and not only that but you have to give them a handicap, let's say 45 percent to their 55 percent, you'd tell them to take a running jump.

and yet that's what we do everyday when we take on the bookies.

you still doing them 9/1 lays rollo

punting wise for me cos of my troubles healthwise ive been on here just about 24/7 and managed to spunk 6700 over the year - mind you it was over 11k on 1st Oct so feels like a win

and im still here

Not as good as previous three years but still cleared 30k in profit. Exclusively in running on horses.

in-running not a skill,just faster pics

I do it from home. RUK and Betfair live video. Same pics as everyone else. So, maybe some skill involved?

apologise

No sweat. I'd be interested to hear how other in running traders have fared. Harder than previous years (especially flat) but still money to be made.

do you make your call 3/4 of race,rather than late

Depends. I can't rely on picture speed because obviously there's loads of people ahead of me so try and anticipate. Flat races (especially sprints) you may only get one bite of the cherry but jumps you can be in and out the whole race. I suppose taking profits and not getting greedy is the key. Still think there's money out there if you're patient and wait for good opportunities to present themselves. I try not to back odds on so favs dominating and winning usually means a non or losing race for me.

thx

imo laying horses is defo finished.too easy for anyone to source information about horses and get information from yards trainers etc. the betfair horse racing market is the most accurate information you can get. i won money for years laying. since june 2014 i have made nothing laying.backing bsp favs each way is as close as you can get to making money regularly depending on your staking plan. look at todays results, 16 out of 18 favs won or placed

Yeah, there seems to have been quite a few spells this year when favs have dominated over a few days or a weeks racing. I think when the ground is fast and the fields are small it's often very hard to find any value. Bigger yards often target smaller races and meetings as well now.

Finished just shy of £9,000 up, 90% from I/R on the flat April- Oct, £10-£15 stakes. November through to March I'm treading water and will break about even thanks to Chelmsford Newcastle and Wolverhampton that I think are good I/R tracks, they subsidise the College football and NFL that I'll lose on but absolutely think is the most enjoyable sport to have a bet on and watch.

I'm going to try and make more of what I know works for me this coming summer as I'll win between 5 and 10 year in year out for relatively small stakes and can easily up it a bit without any fundamental affect to getting on.

Duffy, why don't you try your hand at NH racing?

I do but I find it harder, you can't catch much in a 5 runner 3 mile novice chase where everything is elongated and there's time for all to see what's happening although the bigger fields at the festivals are good.

Far better though the flat where everything is happening quicker and there's bigger fields for winners to be more "camouflaged" in with better chances to catch better prices if you're quick...even playing at home.

In 2016 I was £337 down..... and it was worth every penny!

Good thread this. One thing that everyone should come away from it with, is that its imperative to record all of ones bets. Its absolutely vital for a bettor to be able to take a look back over the bets you've placed to see what races you do best in and those that you don't, the type of bets that are providing you with the most profits and the ones that you shouldn't be placing. For a losing punter to have any chance of becoming a winning one, the recording of ones bets is a must do first step.

Darts: -€81.00 | Football: €93.74 | Horse Racing: €2,785.79  Total P&L:  €2,798.53


11 years of guessing, better off doing a shift at McDonnells,  ffs

Interesting year here - almost exclusively IR from home - with, on one hand a result in the top 5 of my 12 years full time, but on the other the toughest prolonged spell (August-November) for a good while. Always difficult to be certain of exactly why, but my top two suspects are that the falling liquidity which the rest of the world has been telling me about for all of my 12 years (IR FINNISH!) may have started to affect some of what I do, and, perhaps more significantly, the crazily dry autumn. The end of the flat/beginning of the jumps is historically a great time for me but neither code played as it usually does on such unseasonably fast ground.

Gerard, Aug-Nov was terrible for me as well. Dry weather, small fields, anxiety caused by the fact that I wasn't doing as well in previous years? Who knows?

2016 was only my second losing year in fourteen and I put it down to two factors ; backed too many losers and laid too many winners.
For the more serious, a lot of favourites have obliged since May and being more of a layer myself, this did not help.
Perhaps more important though was the use of the sharing application Team Viewer on course. This enables groups of people to leapfrog everybody in the in running queue. Skyped pictures sent by one to many is the final nail in the in play coffin.

Gerard ccentral Aug - Nov awful for me as well. I think it must be the lack of liquidity and also possibly bots seeding the markest on API's with pennies to destroy greening function.

cant wait for this years update

insert excited emoji

Far too early to contemplate with St Stephens Day and the festival meetings still to commence

01 minute after  the last on the 31st, DIK will be here = napped


2015 was a spectacular effort ..

Winning Loads..........