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gona have to edge with thistle...looks a potential superstar and tomorrow think may have to much toe for Cue Card..
of course i error either way could decide everything for us.
of course i error either way could decide everything for us.
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Will Thistlecracks jumping hold up at speed around Kempton. Hopefully enough that he isnt redirected back to hurdles after.
The small field will negate the gap in chase experience i believe. Thistlecrack will not be stretched by the pace, i have confidence in his jumping.
I am trusting my eyes here.
I am trusting my eyes here.
My eyes tell me Thistlecrack is a superstar but prices tell me to go with the proven horse Cue Card, probably going to just watch and enjoy.
I've been attempting to assess in my own mind what Cue Cards rating would be as a staying hurdler and i would guess around 168, so not that far behind Thistlecrack.
But it's been a while since Thistlecrack was properly opened up and i just think that there is so much acceleration there in the tank if needed and it will be too much for CC.
But it's been a while since Thistlecrack was properly opened up and i just think that there is so much acceleration there in the tank if needed and it will be too much for CC.
Cue card willput thistle to the sword and his experience at jumping at pace will force an error. cc all the way for me
Cue Card for me this year with Josses Hill 2nd; next year Thistlecrack.
Cue for me , think it'll come to early for Thistle.
Last three fences in the home straight second time round. Over the years Champion horses Night Nurse, Dessert Orchid, and many more have been caught out with these fences. If Thistlecrack is still there after the last fence in contention, in my opinion will win.
of he 2 i would be with cue card at this stage of the season but i think josses hill could turn em both over , he should go from the front and although stepping up in trip could well improve for it ,cvonnections supplementing him for £10,000 in the absence of coneygree running intrigues me ,and around 12s he is a decent price for me .
MATT raving about thistlecrack
By MATT CHAPMAN
Thistle be the day a star is born
IT’S a pathetically small field for a pot of nearly £120,000, denying punters full each-way betting.
But because of one horse — the tantalising Thistlecrack — Monday’s King George VI Chase is arguably one of the most fascinating races of all time.
Thistlecrack, who takes on major rival and stable companion Cue Card, is an unknown quantity and it is exactly that which encourages fascination.
We’re not trying to understand the Voynich Manuscript, solve the Beale Ciphers or discover the Loch Ness Monster, but it’s as much of a puzzle.
Thistlecrack could be the best chaser we have seen in recent years.
He might just be the most perfect specimen ever. Yes, that’s right, better than Arkle, Desert Orchid or Kauto Star.
And he might be a brilliant King George winner like Wayward Lad, One Man, The Fellow and Silver Buck.
Only Monday’s 32Red-sponsored Grade 1 will answer that question.
I asked jockey Tom Scudamore if he felt, with a clear round, jumping well and on top of his game, there was any chaser in training who could beat Thistlecrack over three miles.
His response: “I have enormous respect for Cue Card, but I don’t think there is.”
Strong words, but understandable.
Thistlecrack has won his last eight starts without breaking sweat, rarely coming off the bridle and landing two Grade 1s in the winning spree by 12 lengths and seven lengths.
In March 2015 he was rated 135. He is now 174, although that is a hurdles mark. He would actually be on only 158 for three novice chase wins.
As is so often the case with the best horses, however, it’s not the sequence or the margins by which he destroys his rivals that is important.
What is important is the visual impact of his performances that gets you more than a bit jiggy.
Thistlecrack tanks through his races and jumps fences — bar a slightly iffy round at Cheltenham last month — with the zest and enthusiasm of children around the world opening their Christmas presents tomorrow morning.
Technically Thistlecrack is not as good as last year’s King George hero Cue Card. And BHA chief handicapper Phil Smith is all over Cue Card for this like a nasty rash.
However, Thistlecrack could be something different, something completely out of this world.
If we believe his hurdle form is as good as it looks, then Colin Tizzard might just be handling a horse who can smash Cue Card out of the ballpark.
Owners John and Heather Snook deserve praise for challenging their novice.
Many would have gone the easier Kauto Star Novices’ Chase route. If anyone criticises their choice should Thistlecrack’s jumping not hold up then they should be immediately reminded of Cue Card’s Gold Cup fall.
Any horse can come a cropper in this game — at any time.
By MATT CHAPMAN
Thistle be the day a star is born
IT’S a pathetically small field for a pot of nearly £120,000, denying punters full each-way betting.
But because of one horse — the tantalising Thistlecrack — Monday’s King George VI Chase is arguably one of the most fascinating races of all time.
Thistlecrack, who takes on major rival and stable companion Cue Card, is an unknown quantity and it is exactly that which encourages fascination.
We’re not trying to understand the Voynich Manuscript, solve the Beale Ciphers or discover the Loch Ness Monster, but it’s as much of a puzzle.
Thistlecrack could be the best chaser we have seen in recent years.
He might just be the most perfect specimen ever. Yes, that’s right, better than Arkle, Desert Orchid or Kauto Star.
And he might be a brilliant King George winner like Wayward Lad, One Man, The Fellow and Silver Buck.
Only Monday’s 32Red-sponsored Grade 1 will answer that question.
I asked jockey Tom Scudamore if he felt, with a clear round, jumping well and on top of his game, there was any chaser in training who could beat Thistlecrack over three miles.
His response: “I have enormous respect for Cue Card, but I don’t think there is.”
Strong words, but understandable.
Thistlecrack has won his last eight starts without breaking sweat, rarely coming off the bridle and landing two Grade 1s in the winning spree by 12 lengths and seven lengths.
In March 2015 he was rated 135. He is now 174, although that is a hurdles mark. He would actually be on only 158 for three novice chase wins.
As is so often the case with the best horses, however, it’s not the sequence or the margins by which he destroys his rivals that is important.
What is important is the visual impact of his performances that gets you more than a bit jiggy.
Thistlecrack tanks through his races and jumps fences — bar a slightly iffy round at Cheltenham last month — with the zest and enthusiasm of children around the world opening their Christmas presents tomorrow morning.
Technically Thistlecrack is not as good as last year’s King George hero Cue Card. And BHA chief handicapper Phil Smith is all over Cue Card for this like a nasty rash.
However, Thistlecrack could be something different, something completely out of this world.
If we believe his hurdle form is as good as it looks, then Colin Tizzard might just be handling a horse who can smash Cue Card out of the ballpark.
Owners John and Heather Snook deserve praise for challenging their novice.
Many would have gone the easier Kauto Star Novices’ Chase route. If anyone criticises their choice should Thistlecrack’s jumping not hold up then they should be immediately reminded of Cue Card’s Gold Cup fall.
Any horse can come a cropper in this game — at any time.
After this Christmas i'm almost skint but i'll find a fiver and put it on Cue Card.
The King George VI Chase is a great race although the prize money has always been way too low for such a prestigious race.
This how the race will pan out:
Josses Hill leads from the start
Cue Card sitting just behind
Thistlecrack sits in 4/5th
Cue Card goes to front with a mile to go forcing pace
Thistlecrack moves up and sits just behind
Thistlecrack powers past Cue Card before two out
Things to bear in mind.
Cue Card is much better going left-handed.
Most of Cue Cards wins are left-handed.
Cue Card makes lots of small jumping errors at Kempton.
Thistlecrack cannot afford to make novice jumping errors like at Chepstow and Cheltenham.
Thistlecrack jumping left-handed is an unknown.
I think Thistlecrack is the most likely winner, but one bad mistake...
Current prices dictate this has to be a swerve from a betting point of view.
From my point of view I would much rather be on Cue Card at Cheltenham a track Cue Card performs brilliantly at (fall in Gold Cup was jockey error).
Couple of questions:
When was the last time a stayers hurdle winner went right to the top in three mile chases?
Don't future Gold Cup winners generally progress by moving up in distance, both hurdles and chases?
This how the race will pan out:
Josses Hill leads from the start
Cue Card sitting just behind
Thistlecrack sits in 4/5th
Cue Card goes to front with a mile to go forcing pace
Thistlecrack moves up and sits just behind
Thistlecrack powers past Cue Card before two out
Things to bear in mind.
Cue Card is much better going left-handed.
Most of Cue Cards wins are left-handed.
Cue Card makes lots of small jumping errors at Kempton.
Thistlecrack cannot afford to make novice jumping errors like at Chepstow and Cheltenham.
Thistlecrack jumping left-handed is an unknown.
I think Thistlecrack is the most likely winner, but one bad mistake...
Current prices dictate this has to be a swerve from a betting point of view.
From my point of view I would much rather be on Cue Card at Cheltenham a track Cue Card performs brilliantly at (fall in Gold Cup was jockey error).
Couple of questions:
When was the last time a stayers hurdle winner went right to the top in three mile chases?
Don't future Gold Cup winners generally progress by moving up in distance, both hurdles and chases?
has someone taken over roidas account -first a wham tribute and now a constructive horseracing discussion 
If Cue Card turns up in good nick, he'll have too much pace round here for Thistlecrack.
Typical roida, he cant see beyond the edge of his nose....Tea For Two to do the pair of em at tasty odds.
"When was the last time a stayers hurdle winner went right to the top in three mile chases?"
Exactly this ^.
Its one to watch for me, of course I'm a huge Cue Card fan and if pressed I would side with him.
Thistle 'could be anything' over fences of course but nobody knows, so to bet on or against is just a guess.
Exactly this ^.
Its one to watch for me, of course I'm a huge Cue Card fan and if pressed I would side with him.
Thistle 'could be anything' over fences of course but nobody knows, so to bet on or against is just a guess.
no, gambling is not guessing but neither is it without risk
I was undecided until I seen this thread. It's now become much clearer. Bamos, Cue Card!
ok gambling is trying to evaluate fair odds...
heads or tails is guessing.
heads or tails is guessing.
Indeed some races are more guessable tho.
I will enjoy the spectacle of proven v potential, as long as they get round safe.
I will enjoy the spectacle of proven v potential, as long as they get round safe.
Hate to go against cue card but have always thought thislecrack was the real deal.
in fairness, whilst cue card is proven jumper here he's been known to hit a fence hard as well.looks a really great race.personally ill side with thistlecrack
WD roidy, you now lead Zodie 1-0 in the pre-race clown tipping competiton..
wd all winners, market making him fav through the afternoon knew
That was so authorative from Thistlecrack , there is just something about that horse
Good performance, really good, Cue Card nowhere near his best though.
I don't think even if Cue Card was at his best,he would not of got any where near Thistlecrack
Well done to King Colin and connections for running both. Great sport.
acey deucy 24 Dec 16 19:10
Joking apart his s.p is laughable......I mean i am a big fan of the horse but he would not have a clue how to get himself out of trouble over a fence......And yes i have layed him for plenty.
Joking apart his s.p is laughable......I mean i am a big fan of the horse but he would not have a clue how to get himself out of trouble over a fence......And yes i have layed him for plenty.
I though Cue Card ran his usual Kempton race. Mixed it with Thistlecrack far too early probably made it touch for him but still hung on for 2nd from dual winner Silviniaco Conti.
Hell of a performance from Thistlecrack who does look the real deal now, jumping has been fantastic at Newbury and Kempton. Has the scope and bravery to jump outside the wings like all the greats.
Cue Car is better suited by Cheltenham but hard to see him get pass Thistlecrack. Hard to see anything beat Thistlecrack if jumps like that in the Gold Cup. Coneygree, Don Cossack, Djakadam, Valseur Lido have it all to do even if they make it to track.
Hell of a performance from Thistlecrack who does look the real deal now, jumping has been fantastic at Newbury and Kempton. Has the scope and bravery to jump outside the wings like all the greats.
Cue Car is better suited by Cheltenham but hard to see him get pass Thistlecrack. Hard to see anything beat Thistlecrack if jumps like that in the Gold Cup. Coneygree, Don Cossack, Djakadam, Valseur Lido have it all to do even if they make it to track.
Dun me Conkers but Big Respect to Thistlecrack...What A Horse.
Cue Card was never going well enough to win.
That wasn't his form. Sadly it looks like he's gone back after last seasons efforts.
That wasn't his form. Sadly it looks like he's gone back after last seasons efforts.
Thistlecrack will always make other horses look inferior. He has the engine and ability of like no other horse.
Never liked Kempton and the ground was too lively today. Testament to his courage he found a way last year, after many dodgy jumps.
Yes Thistle impressive, but what figure are we putting on it?
Yes Thistle impressive, but what figure are we putting on it?
Thistlecrack the real deal no doubt but Cue Card should have been up beside him from the start. Personally thought the horse that got the most aggressive ride won, but then again last year the horse that got the most aggressive got chinned on the line by Cue Card. The latter is almost an 11yo and has been a fair servant. He's lost nothing in defeat and as others have said, probably ran his usual Kempton race.
If I had to pick a Gold Cup winner, it'd be Thistlecrack but I certainly wouldn't back him at a shade above evens. I'll avail of the opportunity to see him again in January. I think there are still doubts, he put in a few terrific leaps but was novicey at others and he got the run of the race bar a brief period when Cue Card moved up. Maybe the Gold Cup field will be small anyway but he'll face stiffer opposition in March.
If I had to pick a Gold Cup winner, it'd be Thistlecrack but I certainly wouldn't back him at a shade above evens. I'll avail of the opportunity to see him again in January. I think there are still doubts, he put in a few terrific leaps but was novicey at others and he got the run of the race bar a brief period when Cue Card moved up. Maybe the Gold Cup field will be small anyway but he'll face stiffer opposition in March.
King George VI Chase time 5m 53.50s (fast by 0.50s), Kauto Star Novices Chase 5m 54.20s (slow by 0.20s). Given Might Bite was lengths clear in the novices when falling at the last it looks like Thistlecrack put up a similar performance to what Might Bite would have achieved (3lb weight difference). Rating around 175 I reckon.
Thistlecrack ..will be 9 on .. 1st of January .. late start at grade ones .. interesting to watch his progress .. now .. goes well for T S. . Main thing was letting the horses challenge each other .. made the sport miles better for a change ..well done to all concerned ..
P.B. might be a contender come CHELTS FOR THE RIDE .. ??
P.B. might be a contender come CHELTS FOR THE RIDE .. ??
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