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xmoneyx
19 Dec 16 09:43
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Date Joined: 12 Jul 11
| Topic/replies: 56,411 | Blogger: xmoneyx's blog
SunRacing‏ @SunRacing
Cue Card v Thistlecrack is ON! Thistlecrack's owner has today confirmed he will take his chance in the King George
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Report foxy December 19, 2016 11:14 AM GMT
Great news for national hunt racing well done Colin tizzard the very best of luck with them both.
Report Lampus December 19, 2016 11:15 AM GMT
Yahoo
Report FATTIEWHITEYSLOVEADRINK December 19, 2016 11:32 AM GMT
They could race each other at home

What sad state this race become this year
Report rogerthebutler December 19, 2016 12:22 PM GMT
Or connections could have done a Mullins / Ricci and led everyone up the garden path half-a-dozen times.

Fair play to connections and it's a far better race now than it was 24 hours ago!
Report Flashy December 19, 2016 12:33 PM GMT
Fair play to Tizzard. How refreshing that a trainer will actually run horses against each other. It has made the race much more exciting. He could have raced Thistlecrack in the novice chase to preserve its '1's...like another trainer I could mention, but instead he will treat the racegoers to a spectacle. This is what racing is all about.
Report mmmalushka December 19, 2016 12:38 PM GMT
A real treat in prospect on Boxing Day, well done the connections.
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:26 PM GMT
Or connections could have done a Mullins / Ricci and led everyone up the garden path half-a-dozen times.


How could that have happened when the horses have different owners?
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:27 PM GMT
Fair play to Tizzard. How refreshing that a trainer will actually run horses against each other. It has made the race much more exciting. He could have raced Thistlecrack in the novice chase to preserve its '1's...like another trainer I could mention, but instead he will treat the racegoers to a spectacle. This is what racing is all about.


(Head in hands)

Fair play to Tizzard? He had no choice once the owners pointed to the KG.
Report xmoneyx December 19, 2016 7:28 PM GMT
lump on cue,late w/d thistle ExcitedWhoops
Report mincer11 December 19, 2016 7:33 PM GMT
Do you think they would have been running against each other if Mullins trained both?
Not a prayer, so fair play to Tizzard is right.
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:36 PM GMT
It was the owners who call the shots you mincer!Laugh
Report mincer11 December 19, 2016 7:38 PM GMT
Not if they are persuaded not to , which would happen in most stables .
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:39 PM GMT
It's the KG you wally.

How could a trainer say "No" ?
Report mincer11 December 19, 2016 7:41 PM GMT
Get into bed you complete moron. Of course the trainer could say no, look at the circumstances you muppet.
Name the last novice to run in the King George?
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:46 PM GMT
Coneygree won the Gold Cup as a novice bird brainLaugh

Thistlecrack is too good for the novice scene, even a bird brain can recognise that.
Report mincer11 December 19, 2016 7:50 PM GMT
Name the last novice to run in the king George please?
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:51 PM GMT
He added (Tizzard): "It's John and Heather's horse and as owners they have the right to say where he is going to run."


This is how it works mincer.Wink
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 7:56 PM GMT
Your question is only relevant to stats men mincer.

When was the last time a horse like Thistlecrack came along? that is the important question.
Report mincer11 December 19, 2016 8:04 PM GMT
Florida Pearl
Denman
Bobs Worth
All top novices who didn't take on seasoned chasers until they had to.
The king George has been won by some brilliant horses including desert orchid , one man , Kauto star, best mate , kicking king etc
None of them even attempted it as a novice.
Report ZenMaster December 19, 2016 8:59 PM GMT
You need to do your homework mincer
All top novices who didn't take on seasoned chasers until they had to.


Kauto only ran in two novice chases and won the Tingle Creek as a 5 year old on only his 4th ever chase. The pitched in the Queen Mother on his 5th race.

Thistlecrack does not need the time to strengthen up like your average novice.

He is an 8 year old. You are comparing him to 5 year olds. Give it up.
Report mouse muldoon December 20, 2016 2:26 AM GMT
vive les tizzards
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 11:11 AM GMT
The owners at WPM stable do not call the shots unless it is Gigginstown eg Shaneshill and Bellshill, both owned by Wylie, near fav in the previous two Neptunes were rerouted at the last minute to the Supreme as sacrificial lambs, the former to Douvan (RR) and Min (RR gain) respectively when they had zero chance of winning.

Thistlecrack running in the KG is not made by Tizzard as he clearly alluded to as he was reported to say "I backed the decision of his owners" - the Snooks who are powerful and important owners to the yard. It is a very sporting decision and I sincerely hope Thistlecrack enjoys himself in the race.
Report equine flew December 20, 2016 11:16 AM GMT
In the interview on ATR, I think he came across as disappointed at the decision but ultimately he knows he must do what the owner wants.

Furthermore, I get the distinct impression he thinks Cue Card will beat Thistlecrack.

Just my perception, reading between the lines.

Time to back Thistlecrack for World Hurdle when he gets before boxing day
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 11:29 AM GMT
Indeed, if he is found out at the fences when the pressure is on the 6/1 on offer for the WH will change to evens in a jiffy.

It is a very sporting decision/gesture by his owners but cannot say the same for the horse; this decision is just not necessary unless relinquishing the WH crown is too painful to bear should unfavourable outcome in the Gold Cup hence this probable early pointer.
Report Can't Catch Me December 20, 2016 11:46 AM GMT
If he gets beat, he will go for the RSA imo. Cant see them switching back to hurdles.
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 11:46 AM GMT
Reading between the lines Tizzard is bothered about Thistlecrack dashing the million bonus hopes.

There is certainly a conflict of interests here and they know Thistlecrack is a freak.
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 11:50 AM GMT
If he gets beat they may put it down to him not liking Kempton as much as Cheltenham ( where he excels )

He will be Gold Cup bound whatever.
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 12:00 PM GMT
CCM
Not according to Tizzard. I think he said WH which made me think the pointer now, and still be able to run in the WH if Thistle's jumping does not merit a run in the GC.

Tizzard is not a trainer whose decision to run a horse or not is wholly geared/swayed by money. To run a novice in the KG is not a natural progression/route similar to that of a hurdler tackling Champion Chase the following season. Nonetheless, each to his/her own.
Report equine flew December 20, 2016 12:01 PM GMT
yes impossible, he definitely said if not gold cup it would be back to the stayers hurdle
Report zipper December 20, 2016 12:08 PM GMT
the owners have the last say ...why ..they pay the training fees .the trainer can suggest his opinion but he knows the horses better than the owner. come march the jock has to pick one of them ..lets see
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 12:09 PM GMT
zipper

Don't waste your time, the lunatics have taken over the asylum on here.
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 12:13 PM GMT
No need, Brennan is CC and Scudamore is Thistle.
Report kavvie December 20, 2016 12:23 PM GMT
zen you are totally wrong as mincer alluded to.wpm and ruby "persuade" owners to go for races that arnt entirely suitable and they have less chance of winning to suit wpm and ruby getting winners..everyone with an intrest in racing knows that and for you to think otherwise shows your not really clued in to whats going on..
Report xmoneyx December 20, 2016 12:23 PM GMT
yep - owners should always have final say
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 12:26 PM GMT
Yes the jockey bookings seem set in stone, neither jock would desert their horse.
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 12:32 PM GMT
kavvie

You may have misunderstood the thread.

You may want to mention that those Mullins horses are in the Rich Ricci camp. They don't like to clash.

This is very different to CC and Thistlecrack - they have different owners who do not have dozens of top notch horses.
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 12:38 PM GMT
By the way, as you mention 'owners' as in plural, who are you referring to? can you give examples ?

Cheers
Report Dr Crippen December 20, 2016 12:49 PM GMT
Here now I'll state the unthinkable:

Running a horse in a race, is not the same as sending a horse to compete in it.

What an excellent prep race for any horse the King George is.

Don't be surprised if Thistle doesn't run its race.

Now I'll wash my mouth out with soap and water.
Report kavvie December 20, 2016 12:50 PM GMT
ricci,wylie ,wicklow bloodstock,gigginstown,supreme racing,potts,mcmahon  please dont tell you you want me to name every owner he trains for?!!? dont tell me you think that all the good horses(for different owners) he trains have been aimed at the optimum races? mares race 5 years in a row?  annie  going for the stayers and others  to dodge a clash with the fly?  i dont blame wp or ruby.they want to get all they can out of it while they can..
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 1:06 PM GMT
Apple's Jade (Gigginstown) and Vroum Vroum Mag (RR) will never have met if still in the WPM fiefdom - that is a fact!
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 1:14 PM GMT
So where will Apples Jade go? they clashed in the Hatton

Regarding Annie, opinion was split on whether the CH or WH was best for her. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. She didn't stay 100% or else she was a penalty kick.
Report kavvie December 20, 2016 1:18 PM GMT
if noel meade or nicky h trained her where would she have ran would you think?
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 1:27 PM GMT
Would that not depend on the owners kavvie?

The WH @ 150k and perhaps the easier race could persuade me as an owner. I would be intrigued to see if she stayed the trip.

If the Snooks had Thistlecrack with Mullins( who also trained CC) i doubt he could persuade them to change their minds. They have a dream.
Report impossible123 December 20, 2016 1:29 PM GMT
Regards Annie, any other trainer 10/10 times Champion Hurdle, and not Stayers.

Apple's Jade will go for the Mares and probably meet VVM again, if the connections of the latter are keened on a revenge.
Report kavvie December 20, 2016 1:32 PM GMT
zen will you stop digging!!  annie was well capable of winning one of the 3  championship races.. the champion hurdle  you Know that..she ran in the stayers to suit ruby and willie..end of..
Report ZenMaster December 20, 2016 1:55 PM GMT
Kavvie the buck stops at the owners to make the decision, like the Snooks they ALL have the power to run their horses.
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