dear mr elliott

The Apples Jade entry for the Fighting Fifth would've been made in early November around the time of the Down Royal race. I think Gordon will want a win into AP next time out..so not sure if it'all travel to the North East.

The entry would have been made after Down Royal.

Clearly she should go to Newcastle and on the basis of that result a plan made. She would be second favourite behind that other rubbish 4 year-old, Sceau Royal. What actually happens
depends on whether Gigginstown put the interests of the horse first or support the rubbish Elliott spouted after he sent the horse out unfit.

Apples Jade was only 8/1 for the Champion Hurdle behind Faugheen and Annie Power but after just one run resulting in a defeat with her new trainer an up-in-trip was suggested. Could she just not have been as fit as her new probably thought? One more run before a definitive decision is made please, Mr Elliot?

if she runs within 10 lbs of aintree/punchestown then she wins - the O'Leary horses now with de bromhead seem to have settled in better with de bromhead so far (a toi phil being a notable exception) so I'm hopeful that Gordon will find the key to this one and if so then 7/1 or 8/1 will look like the price of the year

Something very fishy about this. You can only imagine the bookmakers have been given a little steer?

Apples Jade beat Petit Mouchoir despite being unfit and would be 5lbs better off yet she is as long as 8/1 and the other horse as short as 9/4. Makes about as much sense as Elliott's post-race comments.

movements on oddschecker would suggest its going to run as only ****/ladbrokes are 7s, although they historically both have good view on irish stables, - top notch will only run if sceau royal doesn't, so one less to consider whichever way it goes

now down to 4s across the board and with the rain falling (heavily) in the area and the market suggesting she's going to run, will probably be second fav ahead of irving/petit mouchoir , have had a small bet at 7s but anticipating the decs on friday

I'm sure all will become perfectly clear when the Racing media grill Gordon! Won't it? Some unkind cynics might suggest the PPS (Punter Protection Squad) may get a few quid on first before informing the Great Unwashed! Must email Gary!

Apple's Jade murdered Ivanovich Gorbatov in the soft at Aintree having finished 2nd to the same horse at Cheltenham earlier. the present going at Newcastle is now soft, heavy in places with standing water. The weather forecast is good with little or no rain to saturday.

Still not totally convinced about this. Paddy Power have just pushed her out to 5/1. The biggest concern would be the Champion Hurdle market where she hasn't moved and PP appear quite happy to maintain their 33/1. If she won the Fighting Fifth you would think that she would back to something like the price she was before the defeat.

I wouldn't be using Ivanovich as a yardstick to devalue the juvenile form as with most of these ex-Flat horses it is only a question of time before they fall out of love with the game. It is probably going to be the same story with this year's crop of O'Brien juveniles. 

And on the idea to abandon a Champion Hurdle campaign wouldn't you want to consult with your own jockey before making a decision? Walsh is effectively the enemy camp and it surprises me that Gigginstown are so willing to give him a first hand indication of what he might be facing in the spring.

well the move is on now it seems - 4s with joes and billies but as low as 3s in some places and money waiting at 4.8 on here, shorter than irving and the fav out to 2s in places..if it doesn't run now then questions will be asked!!

Start preparing the questions. Sadly, the market move for Apple's Jade doesn't make any sense.

According to the Racing Post site Cooper is jocked up to ride Petit Mouchoir. Cooper wouldn't have willingly got off Apple's Jade. Gigginstown are not going to run both.

Barring a mess-up by Jacob (always a possibility) it should be another comfortable win for Sceau Royal.

I would say it's quite likely Cooper just prefers Petit Mouchoir. Generally speaking the amounts that are willing to back Apple's Jade on here are as good as a guarantee of running. The vibes about Petit Mouchoir are extremely positive, I was very skeptical about the supposed promise of his last run but they seem confident of significant improvement.

I'd say her winning the Fighting Fifth won't mean much either way re her chances in a Champion Hurdle.

Last years juveniles are terrible, the winner looks like he is being prepped for the county and Elliot has said she is slow as fck.

The decline of the Fighting Fifth as a race is really sad. Once a great race, it has been diminished terribly by recent fields and that awful yoke of Nicholls' winning it. Wouldn't be surprised if Hidden Cyclone bagged it.

I think it's a bit stupid running the same NH race in England you ran 1 week earlier in Ireland. There aren't enough good NH horses to essentially have 2 divisions of the same Grade 1 race and then when you throw the Price Rush hurdle into the mix it's just terrible, the chances of 2 good horses facing each other in any of the races are minimal.

Absolutely Custom Cut. Far too many Grade 1s, but these **** little conditions races that have popped up at Haydock and Sandown are exacerbating the situation. We used to just about get away with the Morgiana and the Fighting Fifth.

These are races stuck in because of petitioning by the likes of Henderson.

a few festival winners below (as well as notable CH runners up) so don't agree that the quality is declining although it's always had small fields and the haydock race hasn't helped. 

Gigginstown are not averse to running two in the same race, and as far as PM vs AJ, I would have thought form stood for more than tentative jockey bookings and BC has got it wrong many times in the past, however as I said below, de Bromhead runners for Gigginstown have been running extremely well



2000    Barton            7    Tony Dobbin    Tim Easterby
2001    Landing Light    6    John Kavanagh    Nicky Henderson
2002    Intersky Falcon    5    Liam Cooper    Jonjo O'Neill
2003    The French Furze    9    Brian Harding    Nicky Richards
2004    Harchibald    5    Paul Carberry    Noel Meade
2005    Arcalis            5    Tony Dobbin    Howard Johnson
2006    Straw Bear    5    Tony McCoy    Nick Gifford
2007    Harchibald    8    Paul Carberry    Noel Meade
2008    Punjabi     5    Barry Geraghty    Nicky Henderson
2009    Go Native    6    Davy Condon    Noel Meade
2010    Peddlers Cross  5    Jason Maguire    Donald McCain, Jr.
2011    Overturn    7    Jason Maguire    Donald McCain, Jr.
2012    Countrywide Flame    4    Denis O'Regan    John Quinn
2013    My Tent Or Yours    6    Tony McCoy    Nicky Henderson
2014    Irving            6    Nick Scholfield    Paul Nicholls
2015    Identity Thief    5    Bryan Cooper    Henry De Bromhead

You honestly believe Cooper would get off a horse who on last year's evidence would have 20lbs (including the allowance) in hand to ride a horse he has only ridden once in his life? He hasn't had any choice.

Sceau Royal, I believe is one of those terrible juveniles and he hasn't looked too shabby this season. If you believe Elliott's line about her being slow why has she gone from looking exceptional to mediocre since he took over the training? Could that slowness just have been a measure of the level of fitness he thought he could get away with? Is it not possible that he just made a complete hash of things and it was easier to blame the horse rather than himself?

I'd say Apple's Jade has either regressed for the move to Elliott or hasn't trained on whatsoever. Either way Elliott could hardly have made it more clear in the post race interviews that he doesn't think the horse is up to much.

mind you below is representative of the golden era of hurdlers (Istabraq excepted) and shows that the best horses ran more often against each other, probably because as below there were less 'similar' races

1972    Comedy of Errors    5    Bill Smith    Fred Rimell
1973    Comedy of Errors    6    Bill Smith    Fred Rimell
1974    Comedy of Errors    7    Ken White    Fred Rimell
1975    Night Nurse            4    Paddy Broderick    Peter Easterby
1976    Birds Nest            6    Steve Knight    Bob Turnell
1977    Birds Nest            7    Andrew Turnell    Bob Turnell
1978    Sea Pigeon            8    Ian Watkinson    Peter Easterby
1979    Birds Nest            9    Andrew Turnell    Bob Turnell
1980    Sea Pigeon [1]           10    Alan Brown    Peter Easterby
1981    Ekbalco              5    David Goulding    Roger Fisher
1982    Donegal Prince            6    Phil Tuck    Paul Kelleway
1983    Gaye Brief            6    Sam Morshead    Mercy Rimell
1984    Browne's Gazette    6    Dermot Browne    Monica Dickinson

I think the juvenile form is nothing special. Apple's Jade had only beaten Ivanovich Gorbatov solely on ground (soft) that she liked and the latter hatedat Aintree; if good/fast ground the result would be different. But on saturday Apple's Jade would probably finish infront of Petit Mouchoir, I believe, on last season's form more so if Cooper is not onboard.

It is on record that Apple's Jade's preparation into the Triumph hadn't gone smoothly. She actually quickened clear of Ivanovich before being clawed back on the run in. Had she been held up a bit longer she might well have won the Triumph. As it was she hammered the winner at Aintree and beat him very comfortably at Punchestown. I don't see Ivanovich as a very reliable yardstick for juvenile form as he probably had a very short shelf life.

Cooper has gone with Petit Mouchoir over Apples Jade...

Impossible is correct. Last year's juveniles were one of the most average crops we have seen for some time. This year's juveniles have been mopping up a few handicaps already and on paper, we probably haven't even seen the potential superstars yet although Landofhopeandglory looks very good. Can't wait to see this Bhutan though.

6 declared
hidden cyclone
mirasale
irving
petit mouchair
sceau royale
apples jade

dear mr elliott - thanks!

fingers crossed back to form now - really should be beating these at level weights nevermind getting 7 lbs

The ground is described as soft / heavy in places. There is no rain forecast between now an Saturday so every chance the ground will be 'sticky', it will take some getting.

We are still undecided.!!!

Mr Elliott, lets hope you confirm soon and even better if DJ Mullins is the jockey, repeat aintree form and job done!

On soft ground Apple's Jade would be the horse to be on but on the other hand Sceau Royal has improved beyond recognition - he toyed with his competitors in the last couple of races this season.

jack kennedy booked according to RP - hope he's not afraid to kick on if she's going well as most of the rides i've seen from him come from behind and ridden for finishing kick

lets hope the market has got this one right! best price now 9/4 but may drift on track - I'm leaving home at 6.15, arriving newcastle nice and early (hopefully!), now all she has to do is win!

a bleeding nose!

A bloody nose for his backers that's for sure !