Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Todays big day for Fontwell still keeps two race names that bring back great memories for me. The Salmon Spray hurdle commemorates the first CH winner that I witnessed in person. It was a very wet murky day and I can still remember two white faced chestnuts emerging from the mist. It was easy to tell them apart as SS was small and John Haine rode with a flat racing seat. In contrast Flyingbolt was 17 hands plus and Pat Taaffe rode bolt upright in the saddle. SS prevailed.
The Sir John Rogerson Memorial may not be so familiar to racing fans but SS belonged to Mrs John Rogerson, a sister of Solly and Jim Joel. Sir John owned Pas Seul who won the Gold Cup and a Whitbread and Charter Party who was a very good but unlucky horse. They were all trained by Bob Turnell along with many other good horses at the time. Bill Rees, John Haine, Jeff King and later Andy Turnell all rode for the Joels and Rogersons in a golden age of chasing.
The Sir John Rogerson Memorial may not be so familiar to racing fans but SS belonged to Mrs John Rogerson, a sister of Solly and Jim Joel. Sir John owned Pas Seul who won the Gold Cup and a Whitbread and Charter Party who was a very good but unlucky horse. They were all trained by Bob Turnell along with many other good horses at the time. Bill Rees, John Haine, Jeff King and later Andy Turnell all rode for the Joels and Rogersons in a golden age of chasing.
Show More
Mr Turnell had Rondetto,Flash Bulb,The Laird,Beau Normand and Meon Valley arouund my time. A little later the eccentric Bird's Nest,Beacon Light and Tree Tangle
The best chaser he had imo was the ill-fated Buona Notte,the only horse to pass Arkle on the bit,but I'm afraid Haine rather messed up.
I remember backing Flash Bulb one day when winning a rare race on the flat.
Flash Bulb was a specialist 2 miler over fences who normally came from behind with a good turn of foot. Unusually he took on Flyingbolt in the Champion Chase and was of course well beten. MAY have been softening up for me the following day
Thanks for the opening post sageform, brings back some great memories of a great trainer in Bob Turnell, what on earth has happened to Andy who appeared to have everything laid on a plate for him?
I will never forget Birds Nest. For several weeks leading up to the CH I was telling all the world and his brother that Night Nurse was a certainty for the race. On the day, the heavens opened, and although BN was a little temperamental he liked soft going. NN drifted in the betting, in fact I think BN ended up fav (?) and stupidly I went off my original choice and backed BN. The rest is history 
John Haine named his house after Buona Notte who won the equivalent races to the Supreme Novice and the RSA chase at the Festival. The time he beat Arkle was in the Massey Ferguson GC at the December meeting when Flying Wild beat both of them on the run in. BN did miss the last and John was really upset about losing that one. Arkle was giving them 35lb mind you! John always believed he would have won the Grand National on Rondetto but he was one of the first to be baulked by the loose horses in Foinavons year. I was at school when Pas Seul won the GC but managed to get an invite to a friends house (which was much closer to school than mine) and was able to watch it. Bill Rees rode him then but when he won the Whitbread under top weight it was Dave Dick who had the ride.
The Turnell horse that probably gave me my best win was Mayfair Bill ridden by Andy in the County hurdle. Trotted up at 100/8.
Hmmm. yes I had forgotten Mayfair Bill.
In the Massey Ferguson Arkle actually had 12-10 ( He had a 3lb penalty for winning the Hennessy a week before.) I'm pretty certain Flying Wild had 10-0 but I think Buona Notte had a fair bit more though under 11-0. Might have the Form Book somewhere but far too idle to look for it.
In the Massey Ferguson Arkle actually had 12-10 ( He had a 3lb penalty for winning the Hennessy a week before.) I'm pretty certain Flying Wild had 10-0 but I think Buona Notte had a fair bit more though under 11-0. Might have the Form Book somewhere but far too idle to look for it.
Salmon - Correct re Arkle's weight. Flying Wild (Carberry) 10-6 and Buona Notte 10-12.
1. Flying Wild 8-10-6 T Carberry. Jumped well; With leaders from 11th; led approaching last; headed; soon led; just led on.
2. Buona Notte 7-10-12 J Haine. looked and jumped well; headway from 10th; slight lead last; blundered on landing; ran on well flat.
3. Arkle 7-12-10 (3ex) P Taaffe. Jumped well; always prominent; led approaching 6th; led 13th until approaching last; rallied near finish
4. Scottish Memories 10-10-5 C Finnegan Headway from 10th; ran on well from 3 out; never near to challenge
5. Wilmington
F Happy Spring (no chance when fell last)
PU The O'Malley
Dist: sh hd; 1; 2; 15
SP: 8/11 Arkle; 4 Buona Notte; 8 Scottish Memories; 100/8 Flying Wild; 100/7 Wilmington; 33 Happy Spring, The O'Malley
2. Buona Notte 7-10-12 J Haine. looked and jumped well; headway from 10th; slight lead last; blundered on landing; ran on well flat.
3. Arkle 7-12-10 (3ex) P Taaffe. Jumped well; always prominent; led approaching 6th; led 13th until approaching last; rallied near finish
4. Scottish Memories 10-10-5 C Finnegan Headway from 10th; ran on well from 3 out; never near to challenge
5. Wilmington
F Happy Spring (no chance when fell last)
PU The O'Malley
Dist: sh hd; 1; 2; 15
SP: 8/11 Arkle; 4 Buona Notte; 8 Scottish Memories; 100/8 Flying Wild; 100/7 Wilmington; 33 Happy Spring, The O'Malley
ged - I like the "looked (and jumped) well" quote re Buona Notte. He always looked well, but most of the time he looked much better than that
.
.
Dont forget Turnells Tree Tangle,couldnt believe how short he rode over fences.
Interesting the memory can play tricks. I didn't think Flying Wild could beat Arkle at those weights.
Buona Notte really should have won,the commentary doesn't tell the whole story. Haine could have pushed on before the last but he was trying to win cleverly. Looked good when it worked. I remember my namesake beating Magic Court about half a length without coming off the bit at Aintree in 1965 but the Massey-Ferguson wasn't Johnny's finest hour. Unfortunately BN fell in his next two races,the 2nd time fatally.
Incidentally I first remember Bill Rees riding as stable jockey to Cazalet along with David Mould. (Pas Seul's peak was just before my time ) He suffered a badly broken leg when another great but ill-fated chaser Dunkirk fell at Kempton. When he eventually came back Cazalet seemed to have dropped him. He got some rides off Turnell ( I think he was his son-in-law ) but didn't go on very long.
Buona Notte really should have won,the commentary doesn't tell the whole story. Haine could have pushed on before the last but he was trying to win cleverly. Looked good when it worked. I remember my namesake beating Magic Court about half a length without coming off the bit at Aintree in 1965 but the Massey-Ferguson wasn't Johnny's finest hour. Unfortunately BN fell in his next two races,the 2nd time fatally.
Incidentally I first remember Bill Rees riding as stable jockey to Cazalet along with David Mould. (Pas Seul's peak was just before my time ) He suffered a badly broken leg when another great but ill-fated chaser Dunkirk fell at Kempton. When he eventually came back Cazalet seemed to have dropped him. He got some rides off Turnell ( I think he was his son-in-law ) but didn't go on very long.
re todays racing : having just walked across the track from the denmnans lane side the going is real soft for today gl all playing , great thread before my time these horses, my oldest memory is beech road just a whippersnapper.
Buona Notte beat Fort Leney when he won the 3 mile novice chase at Cheltenham. Fort Leney was another Tom Dreaper chaser, who won a Gold up once Arkle and Mill House were out of the way - and that was after he'd had time off to recover from straining a heart valve trying to give weight to Rondetto in a battle for the 3m hcap chase at the festival. Fort Leney had 12-7, Rondetto 11-10; 3rd top weight in the 20-runner race was 11-2, and lower-weighted runners included Kapeno and Honey End.
Another couple of old timers could lead to a few bets on Lough Derg island and Tenant Farmer, very tenous links to old Fontwell favourites lough Derg and Brantridge Farmer!
Rondetto himself was better than some GC winners,but in what was I think Arkle's best ever performance,at Sandown in 1965,he finished 20ls behind getting just under 2st. He passed an exhausted Mill House on the run-in ( if my memory is correct this time ).
Flying Wild was probably at her best distance at around 2.5 miles. She won the Cathcart by 20 lengths to end the card on the day Arkle won his 3rd Gold Cup.
She did actually beat Arkle twice, as she finished 3rd in the bumper in which he finished 4th.
She did actually beat Arkle twice, as she finished 3rd in the bumper in which he finished 4th.
salmon - yes, correct this time...
1. Arkle 8-12-7 led 9th to 15th; led 20th
2. Rondetto 9-10-9 headway 19th; never nearer
3. Mill House 9-11-5 led 5th to 8th; led 16th to 19th; tired from 20th
4. The Rip 10-10-0
Dist: 20; 4; 15; 10
4/9 Arke; 7/2 Mill House; 9 Rondetto; 20+ others
1. Arkle 8-12-7 led 9th to 15th; led 20th
2. Rondetto 9-10-9 headway 19th; never nearer
3. Mill House 9-11-5 led 5th to 8th; led 16th to 19th; tired from 20th
4. The Rip 10-10-0
Dist: 20; 4; 15; 10
4/9 Arke; 7/2 Mill House; 9 Rondetto; 20+ others
Buona Notte died of a heart attack at Newbury 2 strides before a fence which is why some remember him as a faller.
Are you sure sage? It was in the Great Yorkshire at Doncaster that he met his end, and in John Lawrence's book, he says that (having fallen in his previous race at Newbury when made fav to beat Mill House), this time, 'his injuries were fatal', and Lawrence was close to the Turnell stable, having basically been taught to race ride there.
Here's a bit of film of the 1925 Newmarket Town Plate, featuring close-ups of the winning jockey, the first woman to ride the winner of the race...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv8QY2ehF3c
The woman is Eileen Joel, who became Mrs Rogerson, wife of John.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv8QY2ehF3c
The woman is Eileen Joel, who became Mrs Rogerson, wife of John.
I always thought BN FELL fatally but I wouldn't contradict sageform,whom I gather knew Haine.
Another good horse died in that race. Was it Red Thorn ?
Another good horse died in that race. Was it Red Thorn ?
great research ged, you are right about the Great Yorkshire but John Haine was a childhood friend and I went racing with him 2 or 3 times a week after he retired. He was adamant that he was dead before he hit the fence.
I can remember Mighty Marine won a few round font used to go off Like the clappers Cracking Jumper 
Seeing the greasy Simon Clare being interviewed at Fontwell reminds me of the day Peter Hedger's Al Asoof, under Mark Richards, pounced after the last and caught Beech Road, under the disgusting Richard Guest, in the 1991 'National Spirit' Hurdle.
Had been walking down St James St, Brighton, on the way to the station to get the rattler to Fontwell, when I popped into the Coral shop, on account of not being able to walk directly past a betting shop. They were going an astonishing 25/1 Al Asoof (SP 15/2), and laid £100 at the price without a phone call or anything. Imagine trying to get a bet like that on now, if you're not a racing journalist.
Had been walking down St James St, Brighton, on the way to the station to get the rattler to Fontwell, when I popped into the Coral shop, on account of not being able to walk directly past a betting shop. They were going an astonishing 25/1 Al Asoof (SP 15/2), and laid £100 at the price without a phone call or anything. Imagine trying to get a bet like that on now, if you're not a racing journalist.
indeed.The best part of that race was the way Guest assumed that the MC Pipe front runner Sondrio would give him the usual lead to the last, where he would pounce sitting motionless on Beech Road. Typically he didn't have a plan B when Sondrio folded down the far side, and he was left in the lead 3 out. That made him a sitting duck on the big chestnut, Guest having turned the horse into a dog through persistently riding it like one.
Nov 13, 2016 -- 2:14PM, sageform wrote:
were you presenting the Trophy at Fontwell SS?
I am waiting to be asked
To complete the nostalgia fest, A Hare Breath ran in the colours of Mrs Embiricos who was previously Mrs Thompson Jones. She was also a daughter of Solly Joel (if my memory is right) Her daughter Diana Thompson Jones (Di Haine) was a trainer for several years and was John Haine's second wife.
Not quite right sage. Different line, but all decending from Joels.
Alex is the daughter of Nick and Valda Embiricos (nee Rogerson), the latter being the daughter of Eileen Rogerson (nee Joel), daughter of Solly Joel.
Di Haine is the daughter of Harry Thompson-Jones and Solna T-J (nee Joel), the latter being the daughter of Stanhope Joel. Stanhope was the brother of Eileen.
Alex is the daughter of Nick and Valda Embiricos (nee Rogerson), the latter being the daughter of Eileen Rogerson (nee Joel), daughter of Solly Joel.
Di Haine is the daughter of Harry Thompson-Jones and Solna T-J (nee Joel), the latter being the daughter of Stanhope Joel. Stanhope was the brother of Eileen.
*descending.
Lots of winners of the Newmarket Town Plate there...
Eileen 1925
Solna 1948
Valda 1955 (Eileen's daughter)
Di 1964 (aged 13 - still the youngest winning rider)
Alex 1984
The Plate was, for many years, the only race in which women could compete against men.
Lots of winners of the Newmarket Town Plate there...
Eileen 1925
Solna 1948
Valda 1955 (Eileen's daughter)
Di 1964 (aged 13 - still the youngest winning rider)
Alex 1984
The Plate was, for many years, the only race in which women could compete against men.
No I'm wrong there, I'm talking Alex Embiricos, so I have the wrong person. Apologies.
Didn't she marry and divorce commentator Mark Johnston.
Thanks Ged. I made the mistake of thinking Solly and Stanhope were one and the same. I knew that Jim, Stanhope and Eileen were siblings. Jim never married.
Cuckolder, Sweet September, Early Spring and April Seventh just a few more of the Bob and Andy Turnell chasers in the 70's.
Sir John owned Pas Seul who won the Gold Cup and a Whitbread and Charter Party who was a very good but unlucky horse.
Were there 2 Charter Partys?
The one I remember was owned by the Moulds and trained by the Duke.
Were there 2 Charter Partys?
The one I remember was owned by the Moulds and trained by the Duke.
I must have had aa senior moment. The Turnell one was a similar name, Charter Flight. Cuckolder was bred by great friends of mine, Arthur and Betty Smith who bred a huge number of good horses from a foundation mare called Wayward Lass. The line still continues with Parsnip Pete and his half brother Arthurs Pass the latest to win races.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539