COURSE BOOKMAKERS HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD

Its all very well in the short term to take the money-but can I ask who will pay for Lawyers/advocates when the need arises?
Seems a bit short sighted to me,unless someone can advise otherwise.

ADGE TURF TV HAVE TRIED TO SCREW YOU ONCE,THEY WONT FAIL IN 3 YEARS TIME,DONT EXPECT THE FRB TO FIGHT YOUR CORNER OR YOUR COURTYARD BUDDIES,AS THE ABOVE POST STATES "SEEMS A BIT SHORT SIGHTED"

the turf tv contracts have a clause within them which allows the BRBA 10% of payments for such eventualities , kevin. I haven't seen the new ARC one but I would expect it to be the same.
at the same time the BRBA have a board of directors who give up their time for free to gain good working relationships with all racecourses and groups which include Jockey Club Racecourses . situations like the courtyard at Cheltenham , I am confident , would not arise now.
confrontation is not the BRBA way of doing things.

I dont remember seeing a 10% clause in the turf tv contract?  Was it in special conditions Z?

So the racecourses have allowed the BRBA to fight them on issues, as long as they only spend 10% of the fund.....
'the BRBA guarantee of full payments to bookmakers without ANY deductions'  - that doesn't sound strictly true now does it?

I trust you did receive your FULL payment without ANY deductions last Monday , dsfibber , invest it wisely.

you should be a politician..... that or a BRBA director.

incidentally , by coincidence , it is the BRBA annual general meeting this coming sunday afternoon at Pontefract racecourse.
if you are a member and have any questions or concerns about any racecourse subject do try to attend. there should be a good attendance especially with these important contracts just being finalized.

Now stop it you two or I'll take your ball away !

Thought course bookies just followed Betfair prices and copied each other these days - hardly proper bookmakers

I've heard that story too , DOUBLED

Doubled, 90% of on-course agents don't use betfair

Think he used 'betfair' generically Barry.

but it shows his lack of course knowledge

how are you , sinfin , haven't seen you in a while

alan im fine I packed up last year fed up of all the form filling the few pitches I had left didn't warrent me continuing my wife has sat work now so that was going to be a issue I can lay what I want on ere with no comebacks I do miss the odd days racing hope u ok

have a healthy retirement , sinfin.
for me I've cut down on some of the longer drives and become more part time which gives me more time for helping all bookmakers get a much better deal out of life. this data contract being a great example for the future.

Soon there'll be no one left who knows what 7/2 each of 2 coupled, represents!

Mind you, half of them betting now wouldn't know either!

Only half ?

thanks alan same to u, staying local sounds gud to me as for trying to help others good luck with that it seems theres always somebody questioning every decision made

yes, , it's that it sounds too good to be true syndrome.
6 months hard work gone into this deal though.

You'll soon be telling s you are for the leadership of UKIP adge !! Missed you today at deserted Newmarket - you knew !!

had a good day at York , democrat , won 2k plus

don't forget the BRBA annual general meeting at Pontefract today at 2.30 pm

all and every question you might have answered

Unfortunatly Adge I will not be able to make it today will recovering.Hopefully will finally catch up with you at Wetherby Charlie Hall day.Sean(the Claret)

Anything to report adge re meeting ?

just got home after just one pint [ john smiths crap ].open forum kept going back to the courtyard and how much funds we will have or need for future legal actions.
time has moved on and we will bring full unity within the same umbrella back in under two years., just need a different approach to the future.
get your forms signed and sent in.

beatherder12 ,
I've followed your posts and good progress. keep fighting as it sounds that you are getting there. looking forward to speaking at the Charlie Hall

Thanks adge sorry about the John Smiths. Lets hope more inclusive arrangements are the way forward.

"KEPT GOING BACK TO THE COURTYARD" YOU COULDNT MAKE IT UP!

SPOT ON DAVE! LOVELY PEOPLE!

CANT BELIEVE ADGE HASNT BEEN ON DEFENDING THE IM ALRIGHT JACK BRIGADE!

Dominoes night !

yes , I won but the team lost.
no one to defend factmachine , I'm sure that all can fight their own battles.... all this is before a judge who is rumoured to give a ruling in January.....but then , of course , the appeal process begins........................

just realized that dave's post has been removed by betfair [ presumably for naming names ]
thanks betfair police for not removing the thread .

CANT UNDERSTAND WHY DAVES POST HAS BEEN REMOVED,AFTER ALL"THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG" THEY MUSNT LIKE BEING NAMED AND SHAMED!

anybody not signed up yet.
waiting for something better maybe ?

ADGE,I JUST CANT UNDERSTAND WHY THE MAJORITY OF YOUR MEMBERS WENT AGAINST YOU AND YOUR ASSOCIATIONS ADVICE? ON A DIFFERENT SUBJECT ARE THE NORTHERN STILL ALLOWING PITCH RENTING ON THE POINT TO POINT CIRCUITS ?????

I know some that are signing adge - the trickle could become a flood !

yes, factmachine , I think the main reason was because of all the paperwork that we were all swamped with . the ploy being to confuse. the outcome being that many missed the deadline and by default were all put back into the old antiquated way of payments. now that cheques are being received quarterly on time as promised the penny seems to be dropping.
with this new contract there are only three choices on the table...1/ the BRBA claiming the data money with attendance assistance from AGT and making payments  promptly every three months ..2/ claiming your own data money , supplying your own attendance records annually to be checked and confirmed with AGT [ there could be an administration fee ]and receiving an annual cheque..3/ not returning the forms which would be taken as opting out of all payments and receiving nothing. there is no fallback to previous contracts.

as regards the "pitch renting " at point to points. we now have pitch sales up and running at Yorkshire points [ other areas will follow ] which will clear this situation. if you had attended the AGM you could have dealt with this in depth

Not knowing anything about Northern points adge but surely 'pitch renting' and 'pitch sales' are not mutually exclusive ?

what a complete f..k up these tv rights are .

no foxy , they are simple and straightforward.
for those that took the very clear advice from the BRBA and signed up for the turf tv deal they received their first quarterly cheques last month , the second cheque will be received by all just before Christmas [ which is always handy ]
now , over six months of careful negotiating the BRBA have agreed an even better deal with ARC who are representing all other racecourses except for , at present , three small independent tracks. it works just the same way with cheques for 50% and bigger sums than previously paid the same way but with ABSOLUTELY NO DEDUCTIONS for wages and expenses as in previous years.

surely , what doubts can anyone have.

I've signed up and I'm not even a bookmaker!

clearly more intelligent than the impression you give , mafia , enjoy Yarmouth today

He never was a bookmaker !! Tell a lie he did lay a 60 to 40 at Aintree once !!

Adge they have not been simple and straightforward there must have been 30 plus different letters land on my door step there has not been any unity in advice given .

You must stop 'TRUMPing' everything adge says ds ! He is only trying to look after you.

foxy , speak to any BRBA director and he will explain everything in great detail.
you would expect that when one organization have directors who are totally voluntary and give up their time for free , attending full day meetings once every six weeks in leeds , regularly meeting with racecourse managers and racecourse groups throughout the country and receiving zero salary whatever any other body that claims high annual salaries for each director and hefty meeting allowances only has the divide and confuse route to take [ I'm sure another one is now overdue ]

on the other side adge some are saying its a short sighted route.

we are working towards longer contracts once these have proved to be a success.
once the two year turf tv contracts end to then have all courses under the one umbrella as regards the media rights system for the future

thanks adge

ADGE ARE THESE THE SAME BRBA DIRECTORS THAT HAVE ANYTHING THEY DONT LIKE BUT TRUE REMOVED FROM THE BRBA FORUM AND OTHER FORUMS???? WHOS FORMER CHAIRMAN ALLEGEDLY RENTS HIS PITCHES ON POINT TO POINTS DESPITE THE BRBA OWN RULE 7 FOR ONCOURSE CONDUCT STATING "THE POINT TO POINT COMMITTEE IS OPPOSED TO PITCH RENTING" ???????? YOU COULDNT MAKE IT UP!

just had a look at the NBPA [ BRBA ] forum. I see that three comments have been deleted and an explanation as to why.
I didn't see the offending comments so not able to give a view.
have you contacted the point to point committee which I'm not a part of with a grievance .
the new potential to sell pitches and retire from betting at points should in itself solve the " pitch renting " you suggest

SO SOMEONE WHO IS ABOUT TO RETIRE THAT WAS RENTING HIS PITCHES OUT AT THE POINTS,(AGAINST NBPA RULES) CAN NOW POSSIBLY BUY UP AND KEEP GOING ON BEHALF OF HIS BACKER!

seems a valid question for the point to point committee , have you asked them ?

ADGE ITS A BIT LIKE THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS ASSOCIATIONS,THE LUNATICS ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM! "HAVE YOU ASKED THEM"

you know , fact machine , as you have paid your fees to be a member of the BRBA you are quite entitled to write and ask any question you wish . even better to attend the AGM when all directors are there to again answer any question you wish to ask.
for some reason you fail to do either but prefer to shout on an open forum to anyone who will listen.

you also ignore all advice the association give to you in great detail which is already costing you a steady income stream .
I suppose it takes all sorts  , just as long as you enjoy it.

ADGE,WHY DO YOU THINK THE MAJORITY OF BRBA MEMBERS "IGNORE ALL ADVICE THE ASSOCIATION GIVE" ?????????????

if that was indeed true ..totally baffling

FOR EXAMPLE MEDIA RIGHTS,AS YOU ARE FULLY AWARE!

DID THE MAJORITY OF THE BRBA MEMBERS GO AGAINST THE ASSOCIATIONS MEDIA RIGHTS ADVICE,YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE????????

ADGE,JUST LIKE AT THE AGM,YOUVE GONE VERY QUIET?????????????

no..and at least , though , you now know not to make the same mistake twice

I personally pulled the plug and removed three postings on the PTP section of the BRBA forum [two by the gentleman you mention and one by the Chairman of the BRBA, who responded]. No one told me to. I try to maintain a civilised standard of debate on the forum as well as  try and pass information to members, be it about on- course, Point to Points, AGT, Gambling Commission. The relevant section on the BRBA forum is about the Yorkshire Area PTP Pitch Transfer scheme, so at best the posting was irrelevant.

The crux, as far as I am concerned, was that the posting was defamatory and libellous. And since I run the forum on behalf of the BRBA, then off it came. My decision. No one else's. Your posting on here says: "ARE THESE THE SAME BRBA DIRECTORS THAT HAVE ANYTHING THEY DONT LIKE BUT TRUE REMOVED FROM THE BRBA FORUM AND OTHER FORUMS????" No other Director was involved and the other BRBA Directors have no involvement with what does and does not go on or stay on the forum. I take sole responsibility. And until this storm in a teacup nothing contentious had been posted, because posters have been self responsible. You seem to be insinuating that the BRBA Directors are deliberately manipulating what goes on, or doesn't go on, the forum, which is not the case. How you can imply that the BRBA can influence what goes on other forums is puerile.

There is a note on the access page to the BRBA forum- Members' Home Page, which I wrote and it says: "Please be aware that you are posting under your real name. As forum moderator, I respectfully remind you that what you say will be read by members of the BRBA. You are responsible for your own actions, which put simply means that I ask you to respect your colleagues and I ask you to remember that there are laws about libel and defamation."

The person who posted on the BRBA forum, was in my personal opinion lucky not to get a lawsuit filed against him. He has since posted on the forum that he 'says it as it is' and that 'everyone knows what is going on'.

I don't know what is going on. If someone shows me clear evidence then I can make a judgement.

Saying it as it is- can be admirable, but where it involves defamation [the action of damaging the good reputation of someone] or libel [a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation], then it clearly isn't telling it as it is, but rather the opposite- it is telling lies, which is what a false statement means- isn't it ?

If people make accusations publicly then they should back them up publicly, with evidence.

Good advice and well argued quix. Out of pure curiosity 'Does the PTP administration that is being questioned incorporate the equivalent of the much maligned schedule 'Y' operated by AGT ?'. There is a significant difference between 'suspicion' and 'evidence but there will always be 'no smoke without fire'theorists !

any point to point bookmaker can apply for a representative card which has been the way since before I first became a bookmaker in the year dot.
the AGT and gambling commission system regarding schedule y is a modern copy of historic point to point rules.
the BRBA after a lot of work in conjunction with each local hunt in the Yorkshire area have just announced a buying and selling of seniority system which both parties are pleased with. the north west area and Cheshire area are likely to come on board shortly.
the thread in question is an open discussion of their members forum on that subject. Of the 14 bookmakers on each of the 10 Yorkshire hunts seniority list , a total of 25 or so positions are offered for sale in the first sale window, which shows it is likely to prove successful.

Thanks Adge. I trust there is something in it for the Hunt in respect of this innovation.

it's a tariff scheme and NOT an auction. e.g. pick 1 has a paper value of £1250 , number 14 at £100 ..the hunts are well rewarded with 25% of sales

That seems fair adge. I expect the AP pitches are of the more valuable type !

QUIXHALL,"I DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON,IF SOMEONE SHOWS ME CLEAR EVIDENCE THEN I CAN MAKE A JUDGEMENT"

QUIXALL.ITS GOOD TO SEE THOUGH THAT YOU ALSO REMOVED THE POTENTIALLY LIBELOUS REPLY FROM ONE OF YOUR COMMITTEE MEMBERS!

that would be the correct procedure for a forum moderator , surely.
however , it is good of you to publicize the existence of the BRBA members forum where postings on all topics are welcome and directors replies and additional information is readily available..why don't all associations have this facility ?

Think it's something to do with being 'active' or 'passive' adge !

as I go on holiday very soon maybe I should remind everyone of these contracts.
you have three clear choices
1/ sign up and let the BRBA pay you quarterly
2/ sign up and let the ARC management pay you annually
3/ don't do anything and forfeit all payments.

there is no fallback to any previous contract [ as with the turf tv deal ] so whatever you do don't make the mistake of number 3..time is running out

has anybody sorted out pitch renting/sharing yet ?

three BRBA directors met with Jockey Club Racecourses last week at haydock park , foxy . this was one important issue discussed.

additionally , for those attending wetherby this Saturday , following meetings with wetherby management ,the BRBA and AGT [ mark ryan ] it is agreed that the only pitches not in use are numbers 1 to 6 directly in front of the building work. the second row is fully open with two extra pitches added at the members end

How does it work if the first letter received was returned to FRB with agreement to accept payments but letter from TRP re ARC courses returned signing  up with BRBA adge? I know some who have acted as described. Where is the adge hol. destination this time ?  Will I be required to step in for dominoes duties ?  You described 'pitch renting/sharing' as an 'important issue' I trust you are practising and preaching with some consistency

thanks adge thats good to hear.

I have this week personally contacted the management at SIS for clarification on what their situation with FRB now is [ or isn't ] but am so far still awaiting a reply , democrat. the USA welcome me in a couple of weeks or so.

Have a good one. A new stetson might be purchased perhaps ? Pastures new or a path trodden before ?

flying to seattle and then drifting

ALSO REMEMBER THAT IF YOU SIGN WITH BRBA QUARTERLY PAYMENT SYSTEM YOU ARE IN EFFECT NOT CONTRIBUTING TO ANY FIGHTING FUND TO WARD OFF THE INEVITABLE BATTLES AHEAD WITH THE RUTHLESS RACECOURSES AND MEDIA RIGHTS ISSUES,AROUND 2 YEARS TIME THE SCREAMS WILL BE UNMERCIFUL WHEN THE IM ALLRIGHT JACK BRIGADE FIND OUT THAT THEIR NOT,THOU SHALL REAP WHAT THY SOW!

is confrontation the only way you know , factmachine. ?

TELL ME IM WRONG,ADGE??????????

In the belief that those ( or some of those ) involved in the negotiation process have the foresight and IQ to recognise the possibility that you describe FACT I would hope that that they might consider contingency arrangenents that would fund such an occurrence. They would not be able to plead ignorance after the many reminders/warnings  that you have supplied. !

Has there been any discussions regarding the situation we now have where some bookmakers set there systems to change prices automatically therefore many punters are walking away with tickets that say a different price than they thought they were getting,I am aware that the price can go either way however it's only those who get the shorter price that go of a tell all there friends what a cheating lot those racecourse bookmakers are thous taring us all with the same brush.now that obviously doesn't bother some who are very short sited but it certainly bothers those who care about getting punters on the racecourse.

DEMOCRAT, DO YOU NOT REMEMBER ADGES QUOTE OVER THE DISASTROUS CONTRACTS WE WERE FORCED TO SIGN AS BEING"A GREAT DEAL" THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DEALING WITH RACECOURSES AND BOTH YOURS AND MY BEHALF!

Technology gone mad foxy. For bookmakers read robots.

I am not sure about your 'personal issue' with adge FACT but would have thought youu could have found far more appropriate targets for your criticism whose actions have proved altruism is anathema to them !

as I had no connection with the drawing up of the contracts you speak of , factmachine ,on what basis would I be able to say that they were a great deal. actually NONE of the directors of the BRBA had any involvement with the bookmaker contracts.
the BRBA are the one's now picking up the pieces.
there is a provision to withhold 10% within the turf tv contract before distribution for unforeseen events.

p.s. I will say though that the current media rights contract with TRP is clearly a great deal

DEMOCRAT,I HAVE NO "PERSONAL ISSUE" WITH ADGE WHATSOEVER,HOW EVER IT IS WELL DOCUMENTED ON THIS SITE ADGES SUPPORT FOR THE ILLUMINATI AND HIS"GREAT DEAL" QUOTE REGARDING THE DISASTROUS RACECOURSE CONTRACTS,NO DOUBT IN JUST OVER 2 YEARS TIME HE WILL DENY SAYING THE MEDIA RIGHTS CONTRACTS WERE"CLEARLY A GREAT DEAL"

I sort of understand what you are saying - he once told me Doncaster Rovers were a very good football team - I rest my case !

Did we ever know what the previous deals were ? All we got was what the FRB decided to pass on ?  These new deals may actually be worse for all I know but I have already been paid for last quarter rather than in two years time. 

Foxy, I don't know whether RDT has copied Elite's system of automatically changing odds but you can set a timer so that the customer gets the previous odds if the odds change whilst he is placing the bets.  I have it set for 8 seconds.  If the price goes bigger they get the bigger odds.

good grief if some of the books ive seen using it were asked to lay bigger than was available they would die in your arms.



not sure how the system works ian but i doubt the books i have seen have that system if they do they dont use it as i often see the punter pointing out it was bigger when he backed it.

QUIXHALL,YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST ABOUT LIBELOUS COMMENTS MADE ON BRBA FORUM INVOLVING A SENIOR COMMITTEE MEMBER AND A POINT TO POINT BOOKMAKER,IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE BOOKMAKERS CONCERNS HAVE NOW COME TO FRUITION.DOES IT NOT APPEAR STRANGE TO YOU THAT THE COMMITTEE MEMBER THE FINGER HAD BEEN POINTED AT HAS BOUGHT UP THE LIST ON NUMEROUS POINT TO POINTS WHEN ONLY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO HE WAS ALLEGEDLY LOOKING FORWARD TO SELLING HIS PITCHES AND RETIRING?? HOWEVER I DO AGREE IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE THAT A BOOKMAKER IS "PITCH RENTING" ALTHOUGH IS IT TRUE THAT ONE OF YOUR MEMBERS PROUDLY DISPLAYS ON HIS JOINT "PITCH RENTS ON EVERY RACECOURSE COURSE IN  THE LAND"