Air Force Blue (Phoenix Sprint) any views or opinions on the race ?

The trainer might be in form but it's the horse you want to worry about.

Last season: won three Group Ones.
This season: ran and flopped in three Group Ones.

So while Air Force Blue can run a stone below his best and win this, the trouble is that so far this year he has been running several stone below his best.

6/4 is probably about right, insofar as the price tempts me neither to back nor to lay him.

According to the betting AOB could nearly win the first 5 races today....

He has a couple of lengths in hand on his best form.

Many pundits hold the view that AFB has completely lost his form SINCE the Dewhurst. Imo the Dewhusrt 2015 wasnt up to much:

For a start it was the slowest race on the card (adjusted for class) ie., it was well below the class par for a Group 1 and how many wins have the rest of the field accrued - Massat, Sanus Per Aquam, Tashweeq, Adventurous Twin Sails and Emotionless - ?
The race prior to that (the Group 1 National Stakes) was a similar story (slowest of the day, adjusted) and Herald The dawn, Birchwood, Final Frontier and Painted Cliffs behind.

Prior to that it won the Phoenix in the slowest time og the day, adjusted and Washington DC, Buratino, Painted Cliffs, Rockaway Vally Zebstar, and Sixth sense behind.

It was a below average Group 1 winner as a 2 y.o.

Everyone assumed AFB was a flying machine and didnt bother to check minor details like time and form.

Vitavox, you're wrong about the Dewhurst form. Massaat upheld that form in the Guineas. On a line through him, AFB is still the best colt of his generation - he just hasn't trained on (or is a sprinter etc).

after the race supporters will be singing ooh ooh ooh cant u feel the force
never got ant sort of run last time

He is trained/owned by the untouchables so bound to improve a stone passed anything he has done this year at some stage, without any questions asked.

You could argue the trip / ground were wrong first two starts this year, then when he had his conditions in the July Cup he didn't a clear run and finished on the bridle.

The visual evidence of the July Cup suggested imo that he wasn't gone at the game just yet and disappointing if he can't take care of this mob.

I agree with George's summation.

Assume he's trained on (and that is not a given) then he is possibly the best 11/8 chance for some time. Down in grade, a poor Group 3, course, ground and trip to suit, 8 lbs ahead on ratings and receives 4 lbs from the field. What is there not to like ? (except for the first part of my thread).

Totally agree with Vitavox ... 2-Y-0 form from last season is turning out to be sub standard, that is if you can be bothered to look beyond the usual lazy ' hasn't trained on ' argument  .

You couldn't touch it at 11-8...must be better 11-8 shots around surely?

I am convinced he has not trained on.  As a triple group one winner as a two year old I am really struggling to understand why he is being persevered with in a group three after bombing out in three races including when they dropped him in trip to six furlongs.  Maybe they are desperate to try and get a win as a three year old before retirement.  However his form is up to 10lb below some of his opponents.  He will only win if a few under perform and is no betting proposition.

Wait for the Coomore money.Always a good indicator.If it drifts to 7/4 plus then no.If it's 4/5 yes! If 11/8 ish..hummm..jury still out on chances.

I think some of us are a bit harsh on AFB; there had been instances where the horse should not have run when the ground was wholly unsuitable. His last race was very unfortunate, when going extremely well, but faced with a wall of horses, and that was against Limato and company. However, I do agree that AFB beat little of note in his 2yr old career.

Today or bust, for sure!

The untouchables have just had a 3 race maiden come second in a Group One, it will win.

Well the money seems to have come for Air Force One, now 10/11.  I'm having none of it though and prefer a small fun bet on Toscanini @ 7/1.

Got to decipher now whether it'd coolmore money or "running on" money from AOB's earlier winners.

will be retired after that.

WD STORM ALERT.

2017 Triumph Hurdle

NEXT

Will not race again. Clearly has a problem or simply not trained on

Looks ideal material for a Laytown claimer in about 4 years time...completely gone..runs with choke out every time

what a shame  totally gone

godawful, Heffernan of course before the race gave nothing away.

Well done layers / Toscanini backers

Best lay I have seen in years, laid it for all I had. OI OI easy money. Reality, as much as I could
see what was going to happen, and just worried they may get 1 good run out of him, so left it alone.
Shame to see the horse struggle like this.

Well that did surprise me considering how extraordinarily well the rest of the stables horses are performing. Has to be one of the biggest turn arounds in ability from 2-3 that I have seen, at least the likes of Alhaarth and Xaar should something.

That should be the last we see of this disappointment.  Trainer MUST know the horse is gone.  Can he be that stupid or is it showing something on the gallop???

only toscanini backers were the bookies bog reps on track, happy to back it at 11/2 to force it into 5's when it was available here for plenty at 7/1

going to have the same hype until the 2000 guineas next year with caravaggio, i wonder if he will go the same way?

i often feel they go mentally rather than physically, hence he might be okay at home but cant hack races anymore. a shame but not something new, many a good horse wasted at two by being not given enough time to develop.

all about winning group ones and stud value

wd storm alert! AFB made your winner a nice price.

Aidan on Caravaggio: "In his last piece of work he hit a top speed of 45 mph - no horse in Ballydoyle has ever been able to do that."

fast! does this mean sprinter rather than miler?

Off to stud for Air Force Blue now surely....before his value and reputation takes an even bigger dive.

Stick him in a claimer.

Who would want to send a decent mare to him?

Stud fee

A MONKEY

didn't bet in the race myself but thought he would run better than that

Can't believe it would run that bad. Are these War Front's all 2 year olds

Finished stone last  .. The major firms knew .. Retire the horse and do us all a favour.

What's the argument for saying the major firms knew? He had barely beaten a horse all season and was strong in the market.

o.brien ,currah group1 2 3 ,40w off260 runs =-70.08.

Presumably Air Force Blue must be showing something on the Ballydoyle gallops or he'd have been retired before or after the English Guineas. Is he just a morning glory?

But now Caravaggio is the new fastest horse they've ever had. Has this ever happened before?

the Gurkha 124, carracachio 116.

Obviously in the coming days the Coolmore vets will find some previously undiagnosed problem which he clearly developed over the winter and Aiden will be able to tell us that he was the greatest 2yo he ever trained and that his 3yo career can now be explained by this injury and he retires to stud as an outstanding stallion prospect because he had so much speed pace class etc etc blah blah blah

make there money on prize money £4,million 800,000 this season,2 yr olds =+17 to £1 level stake.

I don't understand some of the comments on here.If a good 2-year old runs first time out as a 3-year old and finishes stone last,the first thought is that he hasn't trained on.He ain't trained on!!!
He follows the long list of good 2-year olds that hadn't trained on.Xaar,etc.The list goes back years.The winter fav for the Classics used to oblige normally 40 odd years ago,but the policy of packing a horse off to stud early to cash in has lead to immature horses to be born.So what you have is later maturing horses at three,beating the smaller 2 year old  wonder horses.
Look at Arazi,so small that he had no scope to grow from 2 to 3,and fell by the wayside.Any good 2 year old that posts a poor run on it's first run as a 3 year old,has to put in at least a good run afterwards to ever be considered as a considered future punt.
Even the classics are considered to be won by "the best early season horses",with some trainers saying that the classics are now effectively run too early!!!.Look at the 2000 guineas Winner, beaten today,the second beat the other day.Anybody seen U S Army Ranger?.The sorry state of affairs goes on and on.

Clearly hasn't trained on as stated by most on here. As you say above ^ the list is endless.  I've been betting 30yrs+ and very rarely do you see a top 2yr flop 1st time out as a 3yr and comeback. I guess at least Arazi won as a 3yr backend of the season if I remember Arc meeting. I backed Air Force Blue at Newmarket and no longer take notice of the Irish lads spouting off all the verbal (next superstar). The 2yr who won at Ascot and then landed a g1 they now saying fastest they've trained.

It's not fair on punters the cr&p they tell people because we as race fans get caught up in the hype. Then we are left scratching our heads afterwards. They reckon L@dbrokes have a insider there. Boll+ks comes to mind.

Ladblokes can be shorter about AOB's horses,and it speaks volumes.I remember hearing that J F Kennedy was their number one Derby Horse,and there he was in the parade looking no bigger than a pit pony to my mind,[he was small wasn't he? my eyes didn't deceive me?].I just could not believe it!!.

As for Carravagio,remember what i have said on here in the past regarding winning Royal Ascot two year olds.