Books

Put this up this morning looking forward to coming back tonight to read the responses. No interest at all! (As much as I admire what MM is doing, you know that's not what I meant King). Mis-read the market on this one!

I do like Micks appraial of Simon Cl@re of Joke Orals....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Mz28makQA   17:45   in

Steerforth - re the lack of response, your problem is that almost everyone believes that anything that is written as "punter" related is generally unreliable at best, and c rap at worst. Don't worry though, just be reassured that they are right.

how anybody can say anything written by Andy Beyer is c rap just beggars belief. I won't worry though.

I'm surprised ratpack hasn't been on, or maybe he's saving them all for his weekly columns!

Apologies steerforth. I misunderstood your original post. It's just that your opening sentence kidded me into thinking you were posting a question  If you let me know what answer you want, I'll try to help.

Richard Baerlein's racing reports in The Guardian came first, but the most important book for me was Nick Mordin's Betting For A Living. Ironically, he subsequently backtracked on almost everything in it, but in that book, and in his Weekender columns, Mordin showed that racing was something you could reason about. Given an observation X or a theory Y, what ought to be the consequences on the racecourse, and are they?

That paragraph leads to two regrets: that Mordin has stopped writing, and that the Guardian never published an anthology of Baerlein's articles.

i have my own book about gambling on horses

"if you think you can make money long term by gambling on horseracing, please go and talk to you local GP.........ask for a referral to an expert on delusion if necessary"

Betting For A Living Mordin and his cards.
Both The Anorak's books are very good
Coton's 100 Hints I sometimes go back to
I wish I could find my Odds On magazines

george - You chose a good thread to post about Ratpack.  This is a perfect example of why he no longer posts on here. He likes the forum and reads it regularly, but stopped posting because of personal abuse and ridiculously ignorant posts.

blackbarn, don't be such an @rse lick, no offence was intended whatsoever. As you may or may not know, he has his 'Reading List' in his weekly column, that's all I was referring to. No drama.

george - Re Ratpack - please read your post and then read mine. You will see that I was merely providing background info.....
and accurate, first hand info at that. You can ask him if you want to verify my post.

steerforth starts an excellent thread, with a lovely opening post, and not surprisingly is disheartened by the lack of responses.

I share and feel his disappointment, so I ask myself, which forumites could have made an interesting and valid contribution to the thread, and because I read ratpack's column each week, I know this is a subject that may appeal to him. That is all.

George - I got that bit easily, but to repeat, read your post and then read mine. You can regard my post as a possible reason as to why Ratpack may not respond.  I AM still responding despite being referred to as an 'rse lick (whatever that is) but is sounds like the kind of vague abuse that may have stopped ratpack posting on here.

blackbarn, your post was bang out of order, you stated "personal abuse" and "ridiculously ignorant posts", neither of which were applicable to my post.

The @rse lick comment referred to your sycophantic post and you seemingly thinking you can post on his behalf. If he has an issue with my post, then if, as you say, "he likes and reads the forum", then he tell me himself, he doesn't need you as some sort of mouthpiece for him.

George - FFS Read the posts. I did not accuse you of "personal abuse" or "ridiculously ignorant posts"  BUT these are reasons given by him to me for no longer posting on the forum. I have not thus far professed to speak for him, but you can speak to him yourself he is easily available and approachable at the races.

I have never read a decent gambling book. In fact I don't think there is one. Most are written by braggards and are basically all the same. I bet this, then that and I am the greatest gambler in history.

mac - this is getting complicated enough without your confusing it with commonsense.

blackbarn, I accept your apology.

Mind, btw, I'm surprised seaside hasn't been on to recommend Nevo's book!

Sorry blackbarn, I've never been the same since reading Alex Bird's biography or collection of betting slips

...VDW.....

Go to bed - MOGAMBO  - Van der Wheil was a convoluted con job ....

- for people who DO NOT UNDERSTAND the game - and, mistakenly, think that there is a holy grail.

...but...but...it  was  all  sooooo  logical....had  to be  true..

I despair! I'm outa here!

Get back to David Copperfield imo.

I enjoyed reading Dave Nevison's book - not because it helps you to gamble better, just a good (not overly serious) book about a punter.

Anything not by Patrick veitch.

Veitch's book started out very well and looked really promising, then after Chapter 2 or 3 it became boring like the rest of them, with him merely recounting his bets.

The Late Julian Wilson Book Called Some You Win Was Worth The Read

Addicted to Horse Racing: Anatomy of a Small Time Gambler. Apologies but it is good.

In my honeymoon period as a punter I bought lots of books on racing, from Winning Formulae crap to memoirs. I wanted to know all I could about it. I quickly realised that new books about racing are almost all rubbish, and even when they have some interesting points they are badly written, edited, unattractive and littered with typos. Old racing books are generally better presented.

One thing I noticed was that all the ‘how to’ manuals did not really give any guidance on form study. They tended to take it all as read. Thus the Punter’s Friend told you where to find form, what it looked like, what its symbols meant – but not how to use it. So I pressed on with my own experiments. Nevison’s first book was great, I think because it was basically a giant masturbatory fantasy for gamblers who know in their hearts they will never have the mental arithmetic skills and balls to make it pay like Nevison does. Having said that, I have had good long winning spells – and I used to hoot at some of the crap Nevison tipped.
Another book I enjoyed was The Tail End System by Ross Newton. It was a system of finding big-priced jump winners. That book was a good guide to practical form study even though, in its essence, the system was flawed and rather dated. Fun Was My Living by Quinton Gilbey is an interesting read if you want to know about the pre-war racing scene. Alan Potts’s Against the Crowd was a dreary, nerdish work in my opinion. Nick Mordin’s Betting For a Living similar. I notice he was quite artful about the title, and as Nevison pointed out, it was a pretty thin living. Mark Coton’s golden rules was good because it taught me a bit of discipline ie never bet in claimers, sellers etc and always study the form of EVERY horse in the race. Patrick Veitch’s book was smug and boring, a vainglorious recapitulation of his gambling or as someone else on here said, bragging. By the time Secrets of Pricewise came out I’d had enough of the game, and Pricewise is a poor tipster.


Sadly back then, I felt that ‘cracking the game’ was just around the corner. I did not realise that thinking such a thought is about as good as it gets where racing is concerned, and is the place where many punters live before they move to the next stage: ingrained bitterness at the endless pain and fleeting pleasures of following the Turf. I had five winners at Goodwood and turned a profit – after a DISASTROUS Royal Ascot – but the old magic just isn’t there anymore. You cannot unlearn the fact that this tricksy little game is far, far, too labour intensive for the rewards it so stubbornly gives up. When people I know tell me they are getting interested in racing I tell them to forget it unless they enjoy losing money and being irritated, unless they want to experience the most viciously efficient delivery system of the Law of Sod ever devised by man.

Nice cheerful read there colonel lol ^^^

Must be the weather, everyone's grumpy today...

Colonel - "the most viciously efficient delivery system of the Law of Sod ever devised by man".

Colonel - you should write a book ......

You've hit the nail on the head. They all detail the good times and not the bad, (Mordin's book and Holt's are particularly bad for this - they give the impression that the game is easy.) The horrendous losing runs that go on and on and on and on..................... how you get through and overcome these losing streaks is what it's all about and yet it's a subject that is never covered. In Fineform Holt states that he expects to better 30% winners at an average price of 3/1 and yet elsewhere he admits he wrote the book and sold tips because he never bettered a 10% ROI. That book has got a lot to answer for.

Surely the learning is worth it , for many years now I've trod the turf,many as a loser .The frustration, the anger , the jubilation ,all part and parcel on this great game of ours . If you go to the paddock on a regular basis and have a reasonably idea of what you're looking for , patience of a saint ,a huge bankroll , a new set of clothes for those rainy days etc. All will be well and you can read as many books as you like ,I doubt you'll make a fortune, but by heck it sure beats sitting in a office day after day. I have read most of the books mentioned and have got great enjoyment out of some ,but for me the best book ever written on racing ,pure and simply for enjoyment re racing has to be the Faber book of racing ...

Great post workrider. I meant to say to you, there is a great looking book about Lord Glanely on Ebay for £100. Got his racing colours embossed on the cover. Probably the only one still available anywhere. If interested, get it before Blackbarn nabs it, lol.

Trading In The Zone was probably the best read I had early on when getting stuck into the exchanges. The majority of material I've read on racing hasn't had a lot of value... I'll check out some of those mentioned as I haven't read them all.

http://goo.gl/lIjdyk

As usual themightymac adds to a thread , thanks for that insight re Lord Glanely , I'd say Blackbarn has enough books !.

Hi chaps.  I did see this book, and I do have too many books. If you buy every privately printed tome by racehorse owners you be on your way to the poor house. Fascinating chap Lord Glanely and not many owners win all five classics.  As you will know his colours (Black with Red White and Blue sash and hooped cap) are still around.

I don't know if the book about Lord Glanely that you're talking about is the one by Alfred Watson, but if it is, you can read it online, here..


https://archive.org/stream/greatyearlordgla00wats#page/n7/mode/2up

Cheers, Crepello.

I wouldn't say I was grumpy. I just take an unsparing view of the game. It isn't really a sport, it's a slightly unseemly industry formulated on the basis that almost every punter must lose almost all the time. Only insiders, bookmakers and a few hard-headed obsessives really win. I have had many good wins, good runs and I believe I am quite a canny student of the form book, but my god it's bloody hard work to stay ahead.

Well said Colonel.

I agree with those seniments Cononelflay, damn hard work...

ged - re the Glanely booK.  Correct and it is easily available in book form too.  Just that this one is signed by the man and has its original cover.  I think he had the first hundred produced with a special cover and signed them for friends. Not sure though as I have never handled one.

Nevison's best insight is that gambling is an emotional test, and one that too many of us fail to handle.

Another pathetic Raceform publication is Secrets of Professional Punters. Very few secrets in it but an awful lot of pro punter smugness. Raceform's guide to betting on sprint handicaps is the most utterly tedious book I have ever held in my hands. I thoroughly enjoyed Gary Wiltshire's Winning It Back. Notwithstanding his disastrous Dettori pasting, it made me wish I'd been a bookmaker (though I don't have the mental arithmetic skills to run a whelk stall). David Ashforth's punting memoirs - I forget the name - is an interesting read, though suffers from the Racing Post ethos that a) you must never take the piss out of the game and b)pretend losing is fun. I speak with authority on that as I used to work there. The best racing book for ages must be Jamie Reid's Doped, about a 60s doping gang that even drugged the Queen Mother's horse. His punting memoir Days Like These is worth a read. It contains a funny chapter about him and his pal TV comic Mel Smith trying to pull off a coup at a course.

It`s a lovely book Blackbarn and to be signed by the great man is something special. I would have bought it right away 30 years ago but I`ve been down scaling recently.

I`ve got a signed copy of Sir Gordon`s book My Story. I would think it could be worth a few quid. £50 - £100.

Mind you, I recently got £350 for a copy of Ernst Kaltenbrunner - An Idealogical Soldier Of The Third Reich and that wasn`t signed When I saw it going for £400 I thought they can have my copy for £350 and it went in a day. Not bad a return for a book which cost £15 in the 1980s.

I`ve got many others that are worth a lot more.

After 30 years at the game, would still say by far and away the best book is the most obvious one.  Raceform paper form book.  You'll find a LOT of winners in that f ckr !