Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
15 Jun 16
16:00
Joined:
Date Joined:
04 Jun 12
WESLEY WARD'S historic sortie from the US to Royal Ascot was almost grounded after his licence was suspended for the latest in a collection of medication violations that would provoke astonishment in Britain but is regarded much less seriously in the US.
The day after Cannonball was narrowly beaten in the Group 1 Golden Jubilee Stakes on the final day of the Royal meeting, the American trainer began a 15-day suspension for breaching a threshold limit for clenbuterol, a bronchodilator used to improve breathing.
All of Ward's Royal Ascot runners were drug tested and the results were negative, but the appearance of US-trained horses in Britain raises questions about the BHA's regulatory response to the long-term use of clenbuterol in other jurisdictions, while the catalogue of drug infringements racked up by Ward, and the penalties imposed for them, provide striking evidence of the contrasting attitudes to equine medication in the US and UK.
Ward made history when Strike The Tiger won the Windsor Castle Stakes and Jealous Again, subsequently bought by Sheikh Mohammed, won the Queen Mary Stakes, but a positive test returned after Notonthesamepage's victory in the $100,000 Spectacular Bid Stakes at Gulfstream Park in January almost scuppered Ward's Ascot plans.
Connections requested a second test, which confirmed the presence of clenbuterol above the permitted threshold. In Britain, clenbuterol is a prohibited substance and Notonthesamepage would have been automatically disqualified.
The Gulfstream Park stewards did not disqualify Notonthesamepage nor redistribute the purse, but fined Ward $1,000 and, against a background of multiple previous infringements, suspended him for 15 days. It was decided that the suspension would not start until after Royal Ascot.
In the US, clenbuterol is categorised as a class 3 substance, one less likely to affect a horse's performance than class 1 or 2 drugs but in the same category as anabolic steroids"
Widely used in training - it has been suggested that 95 per cent of racehorses in California are trained on it - clenbuterol's presence on raceday in the US, above a threshold limit, is an offence.
Dr Tim Morris, the BHA's director of equine science and welfare, said: "We don't know how widely used clenbuterol is in Britain but our testing programme suggests that it is not a big feature of training here.
"Clenbuterol dilates the airways and is likely to give a horse an advantage on raceday, so we wouldn't want it present then. If it is used on a long-term basis it can also have an anabolic effect, indirectly building muscle, a positive test result would trigger automatic disqualification of the horse and a penalty for the trainer."
The penalty depends on the circumstances of the drug's administration but Morris indicated that, if it was one of a series of offences or there was evidence of long-term administration with a view to improving a horse's performance, a major penalty could be expected.
This raises the question of whether or not horses trained abroad, legally and routinely given clenbuterol, should be allowed to race in Britain, given that the long-term anabolic effect of the drug may give such horses an advantage.
Lets not insult Frankel by comparing him with illegal 2yo freaks please.
The day after Cannonball was narrowly beaten in the Group 1 Golden Jubilee Stakes on the final day of the Royal meeting, the American trainer began a 15-day suspension for breaching a threshold limit for clenbuterol, a bronchodilator used to improve breathing.
All of Ward's Royal Ascot runners were drug tested and the results were negative, but the appearance of US-trained horses in Britain raises questions about the BHA's regulatory response to the long-term use of clenbuterol in other jurisdictions, while the catalogue of drug infringements racked up by Ward, and the penalties imposed for them, provide striking evidence of the contrasting attitudes to equine medication in the US and UK.
Ward made history when Strike The Tiger won the Windsor Castle Stakes and Jealous Again, subsequently bought by Sheikh Mohammed, won the Queen Mary Stakes, but a positive test returned after Notonthesamepage's victory in the $100,000 Spectacular Bid Stakes at Gulfstream Park in January almost scuppered Ward's Ascot plans.
Connections requested a second test, which confirmed the presence of clenbuterol above the permitted threshold. In Britain, clenbuterol is a prohibited substance and Notonthesamepage would have been automatically disqualified.
The Gulfstream Park stewards did not disqualify Notonthesamepage nor redistribute the purse, but fined Ward $1,000 and, against a background of multiple previous infringements, suspended him for 15 days. It was decided that the suspension would not start until after Royal Ascot.
In the US, clenbuterol is categorised as a class 3 substance, one less likely to affect a horse's performance than class 1 or 2 drugs but in the same category as anabolic steroids"
Widely used in training - it has been suggested that 95 per cent of racehorses in California are trained on it - clenbuterol's presence on raceday in the US, above a threshold limit, is an offence.
Dr Tim Morris, the BHA's director of equine science and welfare, said: "We don't know how widely used clenbuterol is in Britain but our testing programme suggests that it is not a big feature of training here.
"Clenbuterol dilates the airways and is likely to give a horse an advantage on raceday, so we wouldn't want it present then. If it is used on a long-term basis it can also have an anabolic effect, indirectly building muscle, a positive test result would trigger automatic disqualification of the horse and a penalty for the trainer."
The penalty depends on the circumstances of the drug's administration but Morris indicated that, if it was one of a series of offences or there was evidence of long-term administration with a view to improving a horse's performance, a major penalty could be expected.
This raises the question of whether or not horses trained abroad, legally and routinely given clenbuterol, should be allowed to race in Britain, given that the long-term anabolic effect of the drug may give such horses an advantage.
Lets not insult Frankel by comparing him with illegal 2yo freaks please.
Show More
US racing is rife with drug problems........coolmore and godolphin should not be supporting US racing
Trainers Bruce Levine and Wesley Ward each have been suspended by the New York State Gaming Commission for medication violations, but the two men are reacting differently to their cases.
Bruce Levine has been suspended 21 days and fined $5,000, Ward will serve a 30-day suspension from Nov. 3-Dec. 2 as a result of a positive test for the bronchodilator clenbuterol in Sunset Time, third-place finisher in the second race at Belmont Park on June 20, 2012. He was also fined $5,000.
In an unrelated drug-testing matter, Ward said he is impressed by the British Horseracing Authority's testing during his annual forays to Royal Ascot in England. “They take hair samples,” Ward said. “That's what they've done over the last three years and it's been wonderful.” He also said the BHA's strict new policy banning anabolic steroids will have no impact on his future plans to compete at Ascot.
maybe they know how to beat the hair test?
Bruce Levine has been suspended 21 days and fined $5,000, Ward will serve a 30-day suspension from Nov. 3-Dec. 2 as a result of a positive test for the bronchodilator clenbuterol in Sunset Time, third-place finisher in the second race at Belmont Park on June 20, 2012. He was also fined $5,000.
In an unrelated drug-testing matter, Ward said he is impressed by the British Horseracing Authority's testing during his annual forays to Royal Ascot in England. “They take hair samples,” Ward said. “That's what they've done over the last three years and it's been wonderful.” He also said the BHA's strict new policy banning anabolic steroids will have no impact on his future plans to compete at Ascot.
maybe they know how to beat the hair test?
they aint testing those hair samples yet , that was a pr nonsense.
Ward knows he gets away with more here
Ward knows he gets away with more here
The closing paragraph - is the most relevant - and simply cannot be dismissed...
'This raises the question of whether or not horses trained abroad, legally and routinely given clenbuterol, should be allowed to race in Britain, given that the long-term ANABOLIC EFFECT of the drug may give such horses an advantage.'
'This raises the question of whether or not horses trained abroad, legally and routinely given clenbuterol, should be allowed to race in Britain, given that the long-term ANABOLIC EFFECT of the drug may give such horses an advantage.'
Hair detoxification shampoo was originally designed as a medical contaminant removal product to eliminate toxins and toxin metabolites from prescription medications and medications administered during surgeries. It has an acidic base that destroys toxin metabolites but does not damage your hair. It is not toxin specific meaning that it eliminates metabolites from all toxin sources including marijuana.
Change the record and be thankful they come over and make the meeting even more exciting.
Like Lance Armstrong made the Tour de France more exciting you mean ?
Even if as you suggest she was on drugs, that was still something else.
Tour de France in the 90s was far more exciting than it is now
Humans 2.0 flying up mountains rewriting all records
Humans 2.0 flying up mountains rewriting all records
gay kelleway gave a good speech about drugs on the sunday forum and she has gone up on my estimation..........we are their masters and we need to be good to them
It would be interesting to see how the trainer would do if training in the UK.
maybe the filly had a couple of aspirins
very grey area where there shouldn't be one
why do they run on all this sh1t in the States and why is it allowed?
it's not done here or in europe
not sure what the sp is in Australasia and Japan
you know what they say..if smth appears too good to be true...it's too good to be true
it's unfortunately the era of drugs in many sports now such that even those who would not ordinarily countenance taking drugs are obliged to so do to be competetive
great shame as everything you watch now that is egregiously brilliant gets you to wondering
very grey area where there shouldn't be one
why do they run on all this sh1t in the States and why is it allowed?
it's not done here or in europe
not sure what the sp is in Australasia and Japan
you know what they say..if smth appears too good to be true...it's too good to be true
it's unfortunately the era of drugs in many sports now such that even those who would not ordinarily countenance taking drugs are obliged to so do to be competetive
great shame as everything you watch now that is egregiously brilliant gets you to wondering
If you really love horse racing you should have been thrilled to see such a 2yo running at speed to win in such exhilarating fashion to take ones breath away. A magnificent spectacle.
So why spoil it by being so bloody negative and rake up the same old conspiracy theories.
Why be so bitter, to immediately cry ' fowl' if a beautiful horse achieves something extraordinary.
So why spoil it by being so bloody negative and rake up the same old conspiracy theories.
Why be so bitter, to immediately cry ' fowl' if a beautiful horse achieves something extraordinary.
facts...........american racing is different to ours regarding drugs.....
I know.
But I'm assuming the filly won fair and square today. Post race tests will confirm she was clean. If not, the Trainer is a fool. I'm confident he's not.
But I'm assuming the filly won fair and square today. Post race tests will confirm she was clean. If not, the Trainer is a fool. I'm confident he's not.
she might have had drugs in america that would be well out of her system now
of course nothing will show afterwards but that performance was definitely too good to be true, reminds me of Michelle Smith winning our second olympic gold had the same feeling then. If and I say if it was without drugs for me it was the best 5F performance ever.
The widespread use of drugs in US racing combined with numerous scandals in sport generally mean that people are within their rights to be just a little bit sceptical. At face value it was stunning.
that was the best sprint perfomance ever on a british racecourse
american racing is filthy........what sharapova did with that stuff is what 95% of american trainers do with horses.........the diff is sharapova has a choice...........the horse doesnt.
Facts 15 Jun 16 19:38
If you really love horse racing you should have been thrilled to see such a 2yo running at speed to win in such exhilarating fashion to take ones breath away. A magnificent spectacle.
So why spoil it by being so bloody negative and rake up the same old conspiracy theories.
Why be so bitter, to immediately cry ' fowl' if a beautiful horse achieves something extraordinary.
----------------
Presumably - You would have said the same to people who, 'really love athletics' - after a Ben Johnson performance.
EXACTLY the SAME mindset.
If you really love horse racing you should have been thrilled to see such a 2yo running at speed to win in such exhilarating fashion to take ones breath away. A magnificent spectacle.
So why spoil it by being so bloody negative and rake up the same old conspiracy theories.
Why be so bitter, to immediately cry ' fowl' if a beautiful horse achieves something extraordinary.
----------------
Presumably - You would have said the same to people who, 'really love athletics' - after a Ben Johnson performance.
EXACTLY the SAME mindset.
Speaking from Saratoga, where he has recently trained three winners, Ward said: "I train every horse on clenbuterol and the majority of trainers, all the top trainers, train all their horses on it. It is not an illegal drug and it is wonderful for keeping horses' airways clean."
Justin Gatlin quicker at 33 clean than he was juiced up. Long term effects of PEDS need to be looked into.
Its been the same was all his winners here, they come over as 2yos in June looking like 4yo's, obviously decent animals but they clearly have a physical advantage over our 2yos, his 3 or 4 good winners have literally looked and run like monsters
at a time when horses are developing physically, they are taking performance enhancing drugs, who knows how early theyve got them on them, doesnt matter if they go a month or two clean before running here
notice how its only the 2yo races where they destroy the fields here, you would think he think he would have cleaned up the older sprints with all those 2yo machines well ahead but only 1 older sprint winner I think last year with Undrafted
notice how its only the 2yo races where they destroy the fields here, you would think he think he would have cleaned up the older sprints with all those 2yo machines well ahead but only 1 older sprint winner I think last year with Undrafted
Jealous Again (USA) 13/2 2 8-12 tb Wesley A Ward — * *
John R Velazquez
Made all, easily sprinted 4 lengths clear inside final 2f, pushed out, impressive
sold to Godolphin and never seen again after that
“There are certain 2-year-olds of mine, from the time we start breaking them that I try to separate from the others,” Ward said. “The ones who are early developers and speed-oriented, we want to focus on getting the most out of them early, and possibly sell them so you can keep playing the game. She was one of those. She always had good early speed, but she made a little noise. When we switched to a figure-8 bridle it made all the difference in the world, and we were confident bringing her to Ascot because we knew she’d be getting more air.”
John R Velazquez
Made all, easily sprinted 4 lengths clear inside final 2f, pushed out, impressive
sold to Godolphin and never seen again after that
“There are certain 2-year-olds of mine, from the time we start breaking them that I try to separate from the others,” Ward said. “The ones who are early developers and speed-oriented, we want to focus on getting the most out of them early, and possibly sell them so you can keep playing the game. She was one of those. She always had good early speed, but she made a little noise. When we switched to a figure-8 bridle it made all the difference in the world, and we were confident bringing her to Ascot because we knew she’d be getting more air.”
Not sure I want to get involved in this debate, but re size and precocity. This is a January foal. The vast majority of the field were April/May foals and the Queen Mary is notoriously birth month dependant. 2nd and 3rd were Feb/March foals. Do with this what you will.
nice racket, find early speed horses, drug them up to the eyeballs young, 1 or 2 runs then go to ascot, blitz the field and sell them for a lot more than they are actually worth
its no wonder they barely see the track after their 2yo campaigns
its no wonder they barely see the track after their 2yo campaigns
he won 10 stakes races in america between 1994 and 2009
then 7 major 2yo races in Britain between 2009 and 2016 travelling half way across the world for inferior prize money
doesnt add up, obviously he seen a good opportunity and the money must be in selling them after ascot, can only imagine the offers for that thing today
then 7 major 2yo races in Britain between 2009 and 2016 travelling half way across the world for inferior prize money
doesnt add up, obviously he seen a good opportunity and the money must be in selling them after ascot, can only imagine the offers for that thing today
Interesting thread intriguing if those in the game know his M O yet STILL give him vast sums for his horses
"he won 10 stakes races in america between 1994 and 2009".............that is an amazing stat
Queen Of Sicily (USA) 3-y-o (27Apr13 b f) Cape Cross (IRE) (9.1f) — Jealous Again (USA) (Trippi (USA) - the cheeky bastards bought Jealous Again and bred with her. The nerve of some people.
And the yank owners that drugged Lady Aurelia up to the eyeballs before sending her to Europe owned a horse called Curlin (among other supserstars), you may have heard of him?
They're on twitter. Tweet them and share your concerns: https://twitter.com/stonestreetfarm
And the yank owners that drugged Lady Aurelia up to the eyeballs before sending her to Europe owned a horse called Curlin (among other supserstars), you may have heard of him?
They're on twitter. Tweet them and share your concerns: https://twitter.com/stonestreetfarm
onlooker
No, I don't have the same mindset regarding human athletes.
No, I don't have the same mindset regarding human athletes.
oneyallbeenwaiting4. Why do you cut and paste stuff and pass it off as your own? (like the original Ashworth article from 2009 in your op). Apologies for the use of bold text but you started it
I thought that it was blindingly obvious that it was cut and pasted, so much so that it went without saying seen as I am not a journalist who writes about stuff 2 years after it happens
only an absolute retard would think I was trying to pass this off as my own articles, that is stupidity on a scale bordering on the incomprehensible
only an absolute retard would think I was trying to pass this off as my own articles, that is stupidity on a scale bordering on the incomprehensible
Nice non-denial. What indication is there that these are not your words??, well apart from the last sentence which probably is! Where is the attribution?, or any mention that this article was written SEVEN years ago.
Howay lads it's effing obvious what he's done
I'm grateful as this is a good thread and hadn't read the original article
I'm grateful as this is a good thread and hadn't read the original article
you just answered your own question
the one sentence of mine after the article
I would bet 1.01 there isnt another person on the planet who would think I am trying to pass this article off as my own, i literally cant fathom the process in your head that would lead you to even consider that possibility, it just wouldnt even enter my head when I see an article posted on here, I dont recall anyone on here ever having to put a disclaimer saying they didnt write the article and I never once thought it was them who wrote it, you can clearly see the difference between a forum post and an article from a news site
the one sentence of mine after the article
I would bet 1.01 there isnt another person on the planet who would think I am trying to pass this article off as my own, i literally cant fathom the process in your head that would lead you to even consider that possibility, it just wouldnt even enter my head when I see an article posted on here, I dont recall anyone on here ever having to put a disclaimer saying they didnt write the article and I never once thought it was them who wrote it, you can clearly see the difference between a forum post and an article from a news site
they tend to be followed by a short comment at the bottom by the op, eluding to why the article was worth posting in their opinion
obvious to anyone who can read a computer screen that it was copied and pasted
It's just me then. Everyone knows it's a cut and paste job from 7 years ago.
.
Forgot to add, is the bold in the original article or is it yours? On my screen, the font of your rider is exactly the same as the rest of the post.
I think it's quite naive to suggest that purely because a horse tests clean after a race that it hasn't benefited from any previous use of drugs.
If a boxer were to go up in weight but had trouble putting on that weight and so used drugs to help bulk up and/or aid in faster recovery from his workouts, if he then gets to a heavier weight and has had a good training camp partly due to the use of drugs so then comes off of them in the lead up time to his fight, testing clean after it doesn't mean he still hasn't benefited from any use of illegal drugs.
By the same token, if a horse has been administered certain drugs that help it muscle up and/or increase the intensity of its training routine and then is weaned off them in the run up to its race, it could still well retain some of the conditioning, as well as having benefited via reaching a level of fitness that it might not have achieved without the use of any drugs.
If a boxer were to go up in weight but had trouble putting on that weight and so used drugs to help bulk up and/or aid in faster recovery from his workouts, if he then gets to a heavier weight and has had a good training camp partly due to the use of drugs so then comes off of them in the lead up time to his fight, testing clean after it doesn't mean he still hasn't benefited from any use of illegal drugs.
By the same token, if a horse has been administered certain drugs that help it muscle up and/or increase the intensity of its training routine and then is weaned off them in the run up to its race, it could still well retain some of the conditioning, as well as having benefited via reaching a level of fitness that it might not have achieved without the use of any drugs.
∽ In her debut, Lady Aurelia broke the track record at Keeneland going 4 1/2 Furlongs in 50.85 seconds!
Homebred Lady Aurelia provided a special moment for us when she put on a performance fit for a queen, quite literally, by dominating the Group 2 Queen Mary Stakes during Royal Ascot in England. Ridden by the legendary Frankie Dettori, the 2-year-old Scat Daddy filly defeated her 16 rivals by a stunning seven lengths as the appreciative crowd cheered her home. Earlier this year, Lady Aurelia broke a track record at Keeneland while winning her career debut by 7 1/2 lengths. We race the undefeated filly in partnership with George Bolton and Peter Leidel. She is trained by Wesley Ward.
http://www.stonestreetfarms.com/racing-stable/
From a drug administration point of view then having horses train in the US and Bulk up, is that the term then run them in the UK by which time the bulking up additives are undetectable. It's not rocket science and Ward is onto a good thing, sell on the horses who by the time they are 4year old are useless. Who buys them I feel sorry or as they won't train on only go backwards. simples.
Name one of these horses that are useless by the time they are 4 years old.
And you're feeling sorry for the likes of Godolphin, Coolmore and Stonestreet Farms.
And you're feeling sorry for the likes of Godolphin, Coolmore and Stonestreet Farms.
I expect everyone will be backing every horse he now sends over here now we know that they are all on drugs.
A horse with a drug problem ridden by a jockey with a drug problem. Quite a combination.
ffs people are very begrudging.wasnt it great to see the fastest 2 yr old sprinter we ever seen yesterday..and well done also to frankie..hes not breaking any rules as they are set out and as such fair play to him.
and hes playing to the rules.if he wasnt the horse and him would be banned .simple.the way of the world
if it was a british trainer who had the filly would there be a question? i say no. do u think that the game is clean over here?the bigger nh and flat trainers in gb and ireland dont use whatever is available to them legally to achieve the best possible for their horses?!?
OK then, lets all use drugs. Athletes, horses, everyone. That sounds ok does it?
well im sure you heard of ben johnson? and russia? and darlings of denial linford and carl?..if a trainers/athlete rival is using undetectable stuff then the temptation is to use. as long as the authoritys arnt serious about detection it will continue. maria sharapova was caught using stuff that she was on for 10 years.she got a derisory 2 years from the time she was detected.most of her sponsors stayed with her..shes still one of the most pictured athletes in the world.the money is still rolling in..shes on billboards all over the world...as you say That sounds ok does it?
Linford is the most obvious drug user of all time and I'd bet if his tests throughout his career (which they'll still have) were taken out of the fridge and tested now he'd be positive for allsorts
It was Michelle Smith for me who ruined the olympics and don't bother watching it now. What the should do is just have the lanes sponsored by the various drug companies i.e lane number 1 EPO num 2 Clenbeuterol etc same for horses
Drugs are a massive issue and we should be doing whatever we can to discourage it. Channel 4 and others fawning all over previous drug cheats is not the way forward. But then they do the same with jockeys such as Lynch so it's no surprise.
I agree with Facts for the first time. The performance was stunning and we should be glad that we witnessed it. I would hope that there was no skullduggery and I'm pretty sure that everything was on the level.
Jun 16, 2016 -- 1:17PM, Try My Best wrote:
I agree with Facts for the first time. The performance was stunning and we should be glad that we witnessed it. I would hope that there was no skullduggery and I'm pretty sure that everything was on the level.
I would suggest that the performance, albeit stunning, left more questions than answers in my head.
Pretty sure that everything was on the level? Mmmm.
5f races at Royal Ascot aren't won in this manner. End of story. The time was startling given the ground conditions and compared to the other races on the card and it's not like it's a one off for the trainer either.
Frankel comes along great, but this is becoming an annual event with 2yos that are built like 3m chasers.
kevin blake spoke at length about this issue today on sunday forum.......it sounds complicated.
It might be worth looking at Australian horses here, they have changed the system so use of steroids when not racing is also banned and pre racing.
There results at Royal Ascot are now not as good as say 10 years ago. A coincidence or are the two related?
There results at Royal Ascot are now not as good as say 10 years ago. A coincidence or are the two related?
Fatlad 1981 • June 16, 2016 11:16 AM BST
Linford is the most obvious drug user of all time and I'd bet if his tests throughout his career (which they'll still have) were taken out of the fridge and tested now he'd be positive for allsorts
ffs a bit harsh
I know liquorice is a laxitive - but surely this would be a disadvantage if you shat your pants during the 100m
Linford is the most obvious drug user of all time and I'd bet if his tests throughout his career (which they'll still have) were taken out of the fridge and tested now he'd be positive for allsorts
ffs a bit harsh
I know liquorice is a laxitive - but surely this would be a disadvantage if you shat your pants during the 100m
Drugs are rife in American racing but even without that, their horses tend to be more precocious than ours (which explains a lot of the Coolmore success in Vincent's days, but I digress).
To that point, we should look at Scat Daddy who sired not only Lady Aurelia but also Caravaggio. I'd not want too short a price on Caravaggio training on.
To that point, we should look at Scat Daddy who sired not only Lady Aurelia but also Caravaggio. I'd not want too short a price on Caravaggio training on.
Coolmore are clearly excited by the Scat Daddy bloodline and so they should be. No Nay Never (stands at Coolmore) first 5 sires are all Gr.1 winning 2yo’s: Scat Daddy, Johannesburg, Hennessy, Storm Cat & Storm Bird. Plenty have trained on.
I saw a recording of the kevin blake piece the gist of which was English trainers (who stretch the rules every bit as much as their foreign counterparts) maybe could learn something from how Americans develop their 2yos [which applies equally to Australians and their sprinters].
I saw a recording of the kevin blake piece the gist of which was English trainers (who stretch the rules every bit as much as their foreign counterparts) maybe could learn something from how Americans develop their 2yos [which applies equally to Australians and their sprinters].
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539