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Notice he has a NR today and a fancied maiden tomorrow. In the late 80's early 90's he was right up there with the very best trainers in Europe. Is it simply down to losing big owners ?
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don't know how many horses he has, think of him around 11% strike rate usually last season was poor.
quite a bright start to this season with 4 winners from 17 including brighton winner yesterday.
quite a bright start to this season with 4 winners from 17 including brighton winner yesterday.
Anyone know when he took out a flat licence - held one for the 1967 season but not sure for earlier. Not many around since those days. I know he had/has a bit of a reputation, but I have always found him most courteous.
His website says he first held a licence in 1968, so if you've found a record of him holding one in 1967, maybe you'd better give him a ring and tell him to update it!
*Tell him you're from the Rabbit Conservation Group, and that it's just a courtesy call.
ged
Actually he may be right
- my row of 1960's "Racehorses of......" are very faded from overuse and I was looking at 68 not 67 as the first one where he appears. The only trainer I can find training at that time, and still training apart from Cole is Mick Easterby, unless I missed one.
Actually he may be right - my row of 1960's "Racehorses of......" are very faded from overuse and I was looking at 68 not 67 as the first one where he appears. The only trainer I can find training at that time, and still training apart from Cole is Mick Easterby, unless I missed one.
he was probably at his peak in 91 pretty sure he won 3 two year old races at royal ascot magic ring beat paris house in the norfolk stakes,dilum beat dr devious in the coventry and i am pretty sure there was a 3rd winner ged or onlooker might be able to confirm this,i do think his interest in playing tennis become more important to him than training horses.
Not sure if the Saturday was still Ascot Heath but he also won another 2yo race that day too with Paradise Way.
thats the one blackbarn
re ascot heath it was changed to royal ascot much later than 1991 not sure exactly when.
re ascot heath it was changed to royal ascot much later than 1991 not sure exactly when.
in 1991 he also had Culture Vulture who was 2nd to Marling in the Queen Mary.
good call fidway she went on to win that seasons hoover fillies mile.
Blackbarn
You know, I have backed it every race, thought it might of been taken out of training,so will have a decent bet for old times sake if it runs. be lucky
You know, I have backed it every race, thought it might of been taken out of training,so will have a decent bet for old times sake if it runs. be lucky
As always it's about the horses and also owners and he and Henry Cecil lost a big patron in Fahd Salman, as well as Cecil losing Ahmed bin Salman too whose Thoroughbred Corporation he used to train for, where at one stage Cecil was down to 26 winners for the season. Fahd Salman owned a whole host of decent horses too, including those 3 Royal Ascot 2YO winners.
Even when you have a certain type of owners, if they have a decent sized string they tend to have them spread around several trainers and so it depends on which ones you get and if other trainers have better success for the owner, then they might get first choice of future horses, with maybe a touch of sentiment involved where a trainer might get the progeny of a sire/mare because they used to train them too.
Paul Cole had quite a bit of success with Pass the Peace until Michael Bell set up in training and he took her over being that it was his dad's horse. Ruby Tiger was another he did well with, but other owners like Chris Wright who had Culture Vulture used/uses other trainers, as does Martyn Arbib who had Snurge and Strategic Choice, as does Ahmad Shah who had Sri Pekan, Strategic Prince and Tioman Island.
He also had a lot of success abroad with his better horses in Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy and the US but you have to have a good one with a chance to make it worthwhile in some of the places if you are going to travel that far and he just doesn't seem to have the same firepower now, considering I'm sure there was one time when he trained the two horses to have earned the most prize money in racing due to their global success.
Even when you have a certain type of owners, if they have a decent sized string they tend to have them spread around several trainers and so it depends on which ones you get and if other trainers have better success for the owner, then they might get first choice of future horses, with maybe a touch of sentiment involved where a trainer might get the progeny of a sire/mare because they used to train them too.
Paul Cole had quite a bit of success with Pass the Peace until Michael Bell set up in training and he took her over being that it was his dad's horse. Ruby Tiger was another he did well with, but other owners like Chris Wright who had Culture Vulture used/uses other trainers, as does Martyn Arbib who had Snurge and Strategic Choice, as does Ahmad Shah who had Sri Pekan, Strategic Prince and Tioman Island.
He also had a lot of success abroad with his better horses in Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy and the US but you have to have a good one with a chance to make it worthwhile in some of the places if you are going to travel that far and he just doesn't seem to have the same firepower now, considering I'm sure there was one time when he trained the two horses to have earned the most prize money in racing due to their global success.
Re Milton Bradley - I think his first season with a flat licence was 1972, but he was definitely training PTP'ers (and probably rules jumpers) well before that.
Age he's 74 now, he might not have the commitment ha once had.
Ray Peacock? Is he still going? Had a runner in January. Took out a licence in 1965.
ged he's got 6 horses according to horses in training the youngest being 11 years old
The guy was a reliable trainer many moons ago, especially with his 2 - y- o which were always very sharp. I think he just got old and stopped training them properly, when that happens the owners drift away, and Bobs Your Uncle the decline is inevitable. Cole does come across as a bit of an arrogant ponce, as do many others in the horse racing fraternity who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
AS has already been posted - Only two trainers still training, on the Flat, who held a licence in 1968 - Mick Easterby and Ray Peacock.
Last year would have also included Peter Makin.
Last year would have also included Peter Makin.
The age thing or playing tennis or whatever is a bit of a red herring really if you think about it, as there are times when the trainers are abroad/away at the sales, abroad/away travelling with their horses, go on holiday themselves and so on and the yard doesn't just fall apart because they aren't personally there to oversee everything and that's what a good assistant and staff are for.
Often as trainers get older too, they might have children who take over a lot of the workload anyway, despite the licence still being in the parent's name and I think it's sometimes quite telling too when you see quotes either post-race about a horse or in the lead up to a future engagement and those quotes might be from the assistant or "stable representative" rather than the trainers themselves.
A mate of mine used to work for a Gr1 winning trainer whose son is now training and that ex-trainer made his money outside of racing, where my mate reckons he was hardly ever in the yard due to his outside interests. Yet if he was having Gr1 success and group race winners both here and abroad, as well as Royal Ascot winners and regular Derby runners when he held the licence when his son and other assistant were seemingly hands on and doing the work, now that the stable seems to have gone downhill since the son took over the change has been suggested as the reason for that.
Yet although the father died, probably very little in the set up has changed bar maybe not getting the horses now, with the ex-trainer himself or mates from his generation having owned many of them and obviously no longer getting the trainer's ones and some of his mates not really carrying on for whatever reason.
That's what I suspect is the case with Paul Cole too, not a lot has changed bar the quality of the horses and certain owners no longer sending him horses for various reasons.
Often as trainers get older too, they might have children who take over a lot of the workload anyway, despite the licence still being in the parent's name and I think it's sometimes quite telling too when you see quotes either post-race about a horse or in the lead up to a future engagement and those quotes might be from the assistant or "stable representative" rather than the trainers themselves.
A mate of mine used to work for a Gr1 winning trainer whose son is now training and that ex-trainer made his money outside of racing, where my mate reckons he was hardly ever in the yard due to his outside interests. Yet if he was having Gr1 success and group race winners both here and abroad, as well as Royal Ascot winners and regular Derby runners when he held the licence when his son and other assistant were seemingly hands on and doing the work, now that the stable seems to have gone downhill since the son took over the change has been suggested as the reason for that.
Yet although the father died, probably very little in the set up has changed bar maybe not getting the horses now, with the ex-trainer himself or mates from his generation having owned many of them and obviously no longer getting the trainer's ones and some of his mates not really carrying on for whatever reason.
That's what I suspect is the case with Paul Cole too, not a lot has changed bar the quality of the horses and certain owners no longer sending him horses for various reasons.
Onlooker
ima - I do agree with you, but you could have saved yourself, and us, a lot of time and just posted the last line
I may have said this before, but you do remind me of myself - an early boss said my written style tended toward the verbose and tendentious.
ima - I do agree with you, but you could have saved yourself, and us, a lot of time and just posted the last line
I may have said this before, but you do remind me of myself - an early boss said my written style tended toward the verbose and tendentious.
It can be if you like onlooker, any names spring to mind?
I was just being thorough blackbarn.
Joking aside, you often see it said on here once someone else takes over a stable that as soon as they have a loser you get comments of inexperience and so on, yet do people making these comments think new trainers have never seen a horse before getting their licence?
The same with older trainers too not matching past success and do people really think Paul Cole after all of the success he has had in the game, woke up one day and decided that he was going to change everything that he previously did to gain that success and instead was going to start training horses in a completely different way.
Reminds me a bit of a certain jockey who hit a purple patch despite doing nothing different to before and when asked had he changed the way he was riding them, replied.
"No still the same, one leg either side."
Have I ever mentioned that it's far more about the horses than the humans?
I was just being thorough blackbarn.
Joking aside, you often see it said on here once someone else takes over a stable that as soon as they have a loser you get comments of inexperience and so on, yet do people making these comments think new trainers have never seen a horse before getting their licence?
The same with older trainers too not matching past success and do people really think Paul Cole after all of the success he has had in the game, woke up one day and decided that he was going to change everything that he previously did to gain that success and instead was going to start training horses in a completely different way.
Reminds me a bit of a certain jockey who hit a purple patch despite doing nothing different to before and when asked had he changed the way he was riding them, replied.
"No still the same, one leg either side."
Have I ever mentioned that it's far more about the horses than the humans?
ima - I did say "I agree with you" but you just can't resist "over-egging the pudding" can you Is it drink?
Is it drink?
Sorry blackbarn, but I wasn't aware that my posts had to have yours or anyone else's approval.
It's called elaborating by the way, as well as I offered an explanation as to what I was responding to regarding some general or typical comments under certain circumstances, but no it's not drink, although I which I could type as well as that if I was drunk.
It's called elaborating by the way, as well as I offered an explanation as to what I was responding to regarding some general or typical comments under certain circumstances, but no it's not drink, although I which I could type as well as that if I was drunk.
ima - people just won't read it if you go on and on, no matter how important. just a fact of life.
You're probably right about that doantwin2easy and I'm absolutely fine with it considering everyone has the right to read something if they choose to or move on if they don't. I also regularly quote or bold someone's user name so that anyone knows who I am addressing or responding to, so others can move on.
Although I do suspect some do and some don't read posts that stretch beyond 2 lines or so, I know I do when it's others posting like that, but then again I'm of a certain age and/or don't have a limited attention span.
What never ceases to amuse me though is when some people feel the need to tell others that they didn't read their post instead of just moving on, but then that's another issue entirely.
Although I do suspect some do and some don't read posts that stretch beyond 2 lines or so, I know I do when it's others posting like that, but then again I'm of a certain age and/or don't have a limited attention span.
What never ceases to amuse me though is when some people feel the need to tell others that they didn't read their post instead of just moving on, but then that's another issue entirely.
I'm a little surprised by an earlier post possibly suggesting arrogance ? He comes a cross pretty confident may be there's a thin line between the two.
He's has a few running today.
Medi...Newbury 13:30)
Sweet Dragon Fly (Newbury 15:45)
Against the Odds (Newbury 16:50)
(Newmarket 14:10) Pacofilha
(Newmarker 17:00) Rotherwick
He's has a few running today.
Medi...Newbury 13:30)
Sweet Dragon Fly (Newbury 15:45)
Against the Odds (Newbury 16:50)
(Newmarket 14:10) Pacofilha
(Newmarker 17:00) Rotherwick
Medieval ,
looks like one of his best 2 yr olds this season
looks like one of his best 2 yr olds this season
Paul Cole's son is involved now I think so there may be a new impetus from him.
I think two points highlighted come to mind change of regime. His son seems to being groomed (doomed) to take over if the Dad is arrogant he is beyond the boundaries of acceptable.
The second is not changing what worked. The issue is he did not adapt especially in his approach to buying stock what worked in 1980 i.e. going to Keeneland is now a way to almost guarantee failure.
The second is not changing what worked. The issue is he did not adapt especially in his approach to buying stock what worked in 1980 i.e. going to Keeneland is now a way to almost guarantee failure.
sageform 13 May 16 13:47
Paul Cole's son is involved now I think so there may be a new impetus from him.
------------
As his Son - has been 'Racing Manager' to, the mostly failed, Fitri and Jim Hay ownership - who must have got through more money than sense, chasing the horse racing dream.... I would not be holding my breath.
Paul Cole's son is involved now I think so there may be a new impetus from him.
------------
As his Son - has been 'Racing Manager' to, the mostly failed, Fitri and Jim Hay ownership - who must have got through more money than sense, chasing the horse racing dream.... I would not be holding my breath.
i was hoping for bigger on that, fav got withdrawn at the gate and 2 other non runners, went off fav
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