Why did my 2 to place bets & lays get voided in the 3.15 race?

yes

Ta

Same for me. Called BF and they admitted it was an error on their part to void the 2P market. I then had an email at 15:49 saying they were in the process of reopening the market and settling as normal.

Its now 17:59 and its still not settled.

Useless outfit.

obv brag post

I had same bet scenario TK - rang them they said technical issue and race would remain void.

Told me the bets weren't matched

So how come my total stake which said "matched" was in two seperate transactions with two seperate bet ID's

Basically, from what I can see with other comments they need to be singing from the same hymn sheet imo

they don't know how to be honest with their customers.

Now this is wrong.

How come the bets showed as matched before the withdrawal?

What they mean is that they don't have the balls to go to the accounts of customers who had losing lays and now take money from them after first voiding.

This is not acceptable behaviour.

3 ran so they don't have a leg to stand on

For the two posters who were told 'technical issues and void market', what time were you told this?

I have an email from them at 15:49, then another at 18:09, telling me market would be settled.

There were 3 runners, my 2P bet matched 6 minutes to the off, so I can't see how they can now let a market remain void after saying on the phone to me at around 16:00hrs it was an error on their part.

With the two emails and recording of the phone call (if there is one) they will struggle to get out of this - unless, of course, their rules allow them to void markets at will!!!

The Knight you have mail

Not yet...!

Sent 9.29 - check your new messages above (next to contact requests)

Seen it now, just replied...

Replied again. I should have added, I will email you if I hear anything else from BF, as I have just emailed them again for further clarification.

OK thanks. I'd like to know what time they voided the "win" & "3 places" markets, I might email & ask them that.

Yup, good point. I have emailed you again.

We'll have to stop meeting like this!

Let me know how it goes. Off to bed now in the hope when I get up in the morning my account will be £412 healthier!!!

Not holding out much hope!

Nighty night....

keep fighting lads cos they may well come round - i bet in the fc market before the late withdrawal and waited for the funds to be re credited after wd only to see they had settled as a loser - impossible bearing in mind one of my selections was the horse withdrawn.

Clear when i spoke to "helpdesk" that guy didnt have a clue as to what their rules were - spouting me sportsbook rules etc re nr goes onto other selection blah blah blah - told em what "their" rules were totally different to what he was telling me and was asked cud i ring back later cos they were "busy wiv the footy" - my bet was exchange by the way cos im one of lucky ones that is limited to £2.50 on sportsbook  on their specials and less for a normal bet so please Barry come on and enlighten me  - mistake was rectified quite quickly after flagging it up by way of a "fix" on my account and yet im still waiting for the phone call back as promised to tell me the outcome 

Surely BF could post a explanation outlining the rules and subsequent resolve to this issue, or is that far too much to expect.

seems very dodgy.  I did notice that there was a lot of (pointless) bot activity in the 3 to be placed market.  I wonder if the cross matcher could have made a costly error in the two places market?

Guys...I think this might be the answer.

As we all probably know, it is only the standard place market where a BFSP is returned.

In this case, the standard place market was 3 places because of the number of runners when the market opened the night before. They also put up a 4 place market the night before.

When the field reduced to 4 runners in the morning, the 4 place market disappeared - as you would expect - and they also introduced a 2 place market.

When the dodgy withdrawal took place just before the race, the 3 place market should obviously have been made void.

But it could not have been because, on their results page, there is a BFSP for the place market on the race. As BFSP is only returned for the standard place market (in this case 3 places) where does it come from? There should not have been a place market SP for the race.

I think they made the 2 place market void instead of the 3 place market.

Now they are in big trouble because to correct all of this means reversing any winning transactions on the 3 place market and then reinstating the 2 place market. Either through sheer ignorance or sheer fear of the consequences, they are choosing to leave as is and simply p*ss off the smallest group affected - which is the backers in the 2 place market of the outsider of the field.

BF are without doubt the worst big company I have ever dealt with. They operate on a mixture of ignorance, conceit and greed.

I loved the line they came back to me with - we reserve the right to void a market.

Surely it's an exchange we're using, all you are there for is to provide a service & charge a commission for doing it! I didn't bet with you, you are only the middle man.

Just had a reply to my email from this morning.

They have apologised for 'the hassle and inconvenience' and are 'chasing it up with their traders and management'. They will get back to me.

We shall see. If that is true, at least someone other than the poor old service desk are looking at it.

If they continue to trot out the line that 'they reserve the right to void any market' my reply will be as follows.

'Yes, I am aware you reserve this right. But what confidence will punters have in using you as an exchange if they see markets made void AFTER the event for no given reason. Especially so when it looks so obvious you allowed a market to stand (the 3 place market) which should have been void, but cancelled one (2 place market) which should not. Remember, if punters believe they might lose valid winnings after an event they will soon go elsewhere'.

I would not like to call this one now. If management are involved, I am hoping they will see they have done wrong because they SHOULD understand their own rules. But, on the other hand, BF do have a reputation for being pig-headed!

Finally had a reply from bf customer services on my questioning why the '2 to be placed market' was voided.

.....'Your bets placed on the 15:15 race at Nottingham Yesterday have unfortunately all been voided. This is
because there were 5 non runners in this race , therefore only having 3 horses running, all reverse forecast
and to be placed markets were voided due to this. As stated in our terms and conditions :If the number of winners
stated in the market information is equal or greater than the number of runners, all bets on this market will be void. '

Im sure Im not alone in despairing at the quality of betfair cs replies...I have over the last few months refrained
from contacting them with perfectly legitimate points because I know I am just going to be '
fobbed off' with inaccurate, inane replies. On this occasion I have told them their reply is not satisfactory and
their conduct will be referred initially to the Racing Post and maybe the Gambling Commission. I await their reply !!

Devil,

That's rubbish, there are numerous examples of 4 runner races (that were originally 8+ runners, massive withdrawals due to heavy rain etc) in which the main place market is 3 places, as demonstrated by the fact that book shown in the Timeform results data base is circa 300% , and which were not voided :

26 March 2015 16.55 Ffos Las
14 June 2015  16.00 Salisbury
18 July 2015  19.25 Haydock
18 July 2015  19.55 Haydock     
18 July 2015  202.5 Haydock 
26 Dec 2015   15.30 Sedgefield

As stated in our terms and conditions :If the number of winners
stated in the market information is equal or greater than the number of runners, all bets on this market will be void. '

Just to spell it out then, "2 to be placed market" when there are 3 runners is neither equal to or greater than the number of runners.

^ Ignore that Devil, just seen that yesterdays race went from 8+ to 3 (not 8+ to 4) so my data is not relevant. My mistake.

Your data is most definitely relevant Andriy

Surely they must have voided the 3 place market otherwise the layers would be kicking off, wouldn't they  ?

May 8, 2016 -- 6:45PM, deano1961 wrote:

Surely they must have voided the 3 place market otherwise the layers would be kicking off, wouldn't they

No probs them voiding the 3 place market...this thread is bout the 2 place market.

This was the 2 place market here Deano, the point that Andriy made that was relevant was about an 8 runner race where there were 4 withdrawals.

I think deano was replying to TheKnight's post ....

I think they made the 2 place market void instead of the 3 place market.

Wrong account, Deano?

devilsadvocate • May 8, 2016 6:10 PM BST

..... and maybe the Gambling Commission. I await their reply !!

def don't do that, I can't imagine anything that would be a bigger waste of time.

Sorted, many thanks for your help one & all.

I still await the same satisfactory outcome as Lee but they have set the precedent now so will struggle not to pay me out.

What I still want to know, though, is if they made the 3 place market void as well, why does a BFSP show for the place prices on their results page? A void market would not generate a BFSP!

Thinking about it even more. If the 3 place market did stay live after the withdrawal, once the race was off did it go in play? If it did, what an opportunity presented itself for any backers quick thinking enough. 3 places in a 3 runner race and a market still live!

Over 1m 6f, plenty of time for any sharp backers to mop up money at ANY prices which less quick thinking layers may have put up without appreciating they were going to be taken out. Worse case scenario for backers would have been a void market afterwards but if you moved any winnings out of the account a bit sharpish, well, happy days!!

What a mess, almost because some young, poorly paid kid hit the wrong button.

Also, clear that long-term users on here know more than the help desk people. Very unusual situation. If I call my bank, or my mobile phone company, chances are they will know more about the mechanics of how things work than I do. But that doesn't apply here.

PP need to wise up and train their exchange staff a bit better because someone, somewhere will pretty soon take full advantage.

May 9, 2016 -- 12:41AM, The Knight wrote:

I still await the same satisfactory outcome as Lee but they have set the precedent now so will struggle not to pay me out.What I still want to know, though, is if they made the 3 place market void as well, why does a BFSP show for the place prices on their results page? A void market would not generate a BFSP! Thinking about it even more. If the 3 place market did stay live after the withdrawal, once the race was off did it go in play? If it did, what an opportunity presented itself for any backers quick thinking enough. 3 places in a 3 runner race and a market still live!Over 1m 6f, plenty of time for any sharp backers to mop up money at ANY prices which less quick thinking layers may have put up without appreciating they were going to be taken out. Worse case scenario for backers would have been a void market afterwards but if you moved any winnings out of the account a bit sharpish, well, happy days!!What a mess, almost because some young, poorly paid kid hit the wrong button.Also, clear that long-term users on here know more than the help desk people. Very unusual situation. If I call my bank, or my mobile phone company, chances are they will know more about the mechanics of how things work than I do. But that doesn't apply here.PP need to wise up and train their exchange staff a bit better because someone, somewhere will pretty soon take full advantage.

Yes dave 1357.....quite agree that the G/C will probably be a waste of time. Just hoping to generate some publicity
that might make bf more responsible in their administration of OUR money.

Like Knight says, long term users on here seem to know more than the help desk people. As stated previously I have refrained
from contacting them over some issues because I expect the reply would just leave me feeling angry and frustrated.  Just
yesterday I was charged 7.44% Commission on nett football winnings of £44.08 and when I questioned this was told that an overall
comm. of 4% of nett winnings £44.08 was £3.28 !! I dont know if the help desk people are poorly paid but they seem incredibly
poorly trained. But they do 'Love to tweet' so thats OK !!

@The Knight the 3 places market was in play and very active with bots presumably making and losing fortunes.

Just off the phone to Betfair about this issue having been contacted by people affected by the incorrect voiding of the 2TBP market.

I've been told it's currently being investigated by Betfair and they will make an announcement once the investigation has been completed.

Not a great deal of money is involved here, but an important principle is.

An error has been made by Betfair which should be acknowledged and rectified.

have just seen I was paid out as winner on forcast bet only to taken back around 4.15pm with the word FIX next to it!! the stake has not been returned either.....am I right in thinking the forcast market was void due to late withdrawal?

Thank you Paul and keep up the good work !

My account is now reduced by the amount I staked on the 2 place market!

I am presuming they are in the process of reversing what they did and it will soon be credited with the stake and the legitimate 2 place winnings they deprived me off for no reason.

BUT, you would think they would tell me (and others) first before 'raiding' the account.

They are a shambles and do not operate with any logic.

Presumably as soon as BF un-void the market you have active bets and they cost you exposure?  Not a great surprise and I don't imagine they'll be in the state for long before they're settled?

Only really an issue for those who use most/all of their betting bank at any one time?

Yes, only an issue for those relying upon a bank with no leeway in it.

Happily that is not me but their continued incompetence is annoying me all the more now.

Instead of publicly owning up and telling us what they intended to do, through which they could have bought time, they have jumped in with a knee jerk reaction and now, given the latest email I have had from them, have hit an issue with the 'reduction factor' they intend to apply to the race.

Hence, more delay.

Also, it appears some users last night (and good luck to them) have been paid out with NO reduction factor. Regardless of stake size, all users must be treated the same. Hence, either a reduction factor for all or for none.

You would think the latter would be easier, and cheaper, given the time and resource they are now having to put into this.

Like I say, they work with very little logic and common sense. After 14 years and a turnover of hundreds of thousands, this has left me with no confidence in them at all.

In fact, the more I think about this the bigger mess they have made.

Last time I looked, on the results page, the BFSP for, as I have already explained, must be 3 places, was 1.54 for Hallstatt - the horse I backed in the 2 place market.

Hence, if this reduction factor takes my returns to beneath 1.54 and they fail to void the 3 place market, then I would have been better off having a bet which I could not lose (on the 3 place market)!

That will be even more stupid.

Just taken a call from Betfair to say they have finally reinstated the market and settled it in accordance with their T&Cs.

Much as I'm pleased they have done so, it still doesn't excuse the fact that their Customer Service staff were insistent that the market had been correctly voided in line with their T&Cs when the issue was brought to their attention. This was compounded by them having the decision confirmed by their Market Operations team.

My issue was, and still is, that much as errors can be made by any of us, once your error has been pointed out to you it doesn't seem too much to ask that you make sure you get your facts right when talking to your customers.

So stating that the market was correctly voided because the number of winners was greater or equal to the number of outcomes, when there were 3 runners and the market was for 2 places, doesn't exactly do much for your credibility, in my opinion.

Oh well, time to move on and focus on Betfred and their appearance in court next Wednesday.

Paul, don't forget that when I called them from Beverley Races forty minutes after the race in question, they openly admitted they had made an error at their end. I then had an email from them confirming this. So, they then started changing their tune.

But thing which astounds me, aside from the above is how they have had the sheer bl**dy neck to take their commission from the re-instated winning bets!!!

Also, and this is more difficult because I would not want others to lose out, is that they paid out a handful of others last night WITHOUT the reduction factor being taken into account. Today, though, in comes the reduction factor.

The real problem here, though, is we as users continue to keep on using this outfit. Only if we walked away en masse and told them it is because of their rank bad service would they change.

After 14 years and hundreds of thousands in turnover, probably more, I am now at a crossroads with Betfair. I am mightily tempted to go elsewhere, or even abandon exchange betting, over this.

If I do move away, the final straw will have been them having the sheer front to deduct commission on my winning bet!!! I just cannot get over that and will be chasing them down some more over it. Certainly not the money now, just sheer principle and lack of ANY customer service.

On the other hand, I might buy shares in them and then attend the next AGM just to stand up and enlighten the audience about how incompetent they can be and how little regard they then have for their users.