FOBT Parliament Discussion Live Stream Link:

Thanks for the link PHTR, have just watched it.  Just to let everyone know the debate is still available to watch via this link.

£2 max a spin
1 machine per shop
Slower rate of play

What are the chances?  The bookmaker lobbyists will have their work cut out to fend off legislative changes as more MPs back the need for amendments, plenty of brown envelopes will be required imo...

Never watched it, I presume Davies is leading the charge to retain the 'status quo'?

paul - any update on the smarkets case for pete ?

Watching where I can now.

Very good point about having signs up on the machines explaining how much they made the betting shop last week.  In a similar way that **** packets have warning signs on these days.

Joined: 21 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 143 | Blogger: Wildcat Army.'s blog
Watching where I can now.

Very good point about having signs up on the machines explaining how much they made the betting shop last week.  In a similar way that **** packets have warning signs on these days.

In theory this idea sounds good, but in practise I doubt that this would protect the very people whose lives are being ruined by these machines.

These machines are highly addictive...


re:- the right persona !   

Great idea - need to close the 10 x £2 per spin loop hole also.

Irony is that anyone with a phone can play the same roulette game on their device in or out of a betting shop!

There is one question that I'd love to see the "Betting Shop PR People" answer.

1) What is the viable need for 4 or 5 of your shops in a one mile radius opening from 8:30am to 10:00pm ?

As a bookmakers, the main "supposed" form of business is to take bets.  If one shop is queuing out of the door waiting to get a bet on then the next answer would be to increase staff in that shop.  If the queue is still at a level that means customer satisfaction is decreasing or at an unacceptable level and there is no more room in the shop to add a till so you can add another member of staff to take these bets then the next viable alternative is to open another shop in the area to meet demand.  Now I'll take Leeds city centre as a prime example as I know the area.  Billies have 5 shops (at least) in the city centre "shopping areas" all within 5 minutes walk of the other one.  Every shop I have been in, even at peak times on weekends don't have the customer footfall waiting to get bets on that means my customer satisfaction or experience is to a level that means I should ring head office and complain.  If that level of 5 shops were reduced to say 2 then it would be perfectly reasonable and I wouldn't have any problems with walking 5 minutes if I wanted to bet on one of their prices.  Grand National day and maybe Derby day is a different matter, but that's 1 or 2 days per year out of 365.  At 8:30am, there is either Australian racing or Virtual Racing.  In an evening (when night racing has ended) there is either US Racing or more Virtual Racing.  How many people are lining up on the streets rushing to a betting shop at either 9am or 9pm to back either Wonky Donky at 4/1 at Portman Park or Julies Delight at 20/1 at Tampa Bay Downs.

Now we all know the answer to this question and that is because each shop is only allowed a maximum of 4 machines per shop and because of how profitable they are to each firm then the only reason they open all these shops is to maximise the number of FOBT's in a certain area.  If they were allowed 10 per shop then they would put 10 in and take down the Racing Post displays from the walls and just leave a copy of the racecards in the corner of the shops next to the football coupons.  FOBT's are big business and have lead to the demise of slip numbers over the counter.  Ten years ago or so each shop manager would report their slip numbers to their area manager as a priority, now it is how much have we taken in the FOBT's that is the first discussion with the area rep or the first box to fill in on the shop figure recording book.  How many people are restricted to a certain level when betting in shop ?  And in retrospect, how many are restricted on the FOBT's.  I know if I wanted £100+ on a football match then it's very rare the shop would accept it and they don't want my business, but if I wanted £500 putting on a FOBT, there would be no call to my client manager to ask for permission, instead it would be credited instantly and I would be offered a cup of coffee.  I don't think I know of one single person who is limited to say £25 on the FOBT's.  Why is that ?... again we all know the "true" answer.

I perfectly understand that if 3 shops close in the area then that's 10 people out of work but for every 10 members of staff there must be a much higher figure than that of members of the public who are losing a lot of money to counter act this.  That money if not lost on the machines would be spent elsewhere on the high street and contributing to the economy.  Look on Gamcare, go to a GA meeting, listen to the stories.  8 out of 10 people attend these meetings now because of what has happened due to roulette machines.  That says a hell of a lot about them and what they do.

If I want to play roulette / blackjack then I go to a casino.  If I want to have a bet on horses / football / tennis / greyhounds then I will go to a betting shop.  For me, that's how it should be but sadly it's nothing but further from the reality of life today. 

I will end with this, and I'll be quite truthful on the matter.  5 or 6 years ago, I lost thousands on the machines they were an active part of my day and I look back on those days with deep regret.  I would chase 23 red till it landed, some days I would cop a few quid but others and many others I'd lose the lot.  Stakes would increase and never once was I questioned about my betting activity.  I could have £100 on a football match at 8pm with no questions asked as they knew that even if it won, it would be in the machine the very next day.  I almost lost my family and maybe my life.  A few years ago, I sorted things out, got my life in order and now bet with my brain.  I'm winning money and doing really well, still nowhere near what I've lost in my lifetime but life is so much easier and I don't go to bed thinking of the "next spin".  6 years ago, I was good business for the bookies and was offered all sorts when playing the machines.  Now whilst using my brain, I'm red flagged, restricted to next to nothing and generally watched by big brother wherever I go.  I've offered to take my client manager out for lunch to have a discussion with them, but as of yet, I've got nowhere with it.  I asked for £100 on a football match last night (knowing I would be offered £25), I was told I couldn't have anything on them, not a single pound.  I've turned my betting life around and now I'm hated by the big 3 or 4 but it would be so easy to go back to my old ways with the opportunities and number of machines on offer.  Thankfully, that won't be happening and hopefully others will follow suit as well.

Great post Wildcat - they are a blight on the community. Hardly any football or racing banter in the shops anymore only the constant hum of artificial music coming from the machines in constant use. Paranoid machine players who get annoyed if anyone looks over their shoulder as their money is eaten up at high speed. Desperate looking people who are so entrenched in the patterns of the machines that they know within the first second whether they have won or lost.

British high street.

Bookies / Pub / Pawn Shop / Charity Shop / Charity Shop / Bookies / Cash Converters /Etc / Fried Chicken Shop / Bookies

One bloke in the debate seemed to think that a money launderer would have to risk all his ill gotten gains in the machine and only be able to collect what he won on the money

Strong views advocating radical measures being taken to regulate FOBT's - wonder if anything will come of this debate ?

Great post wildcat.....similar story here and chased 23 aswell!!!!

Seaside - Only reason I chased it was it Robbie Fowler's first squad number at Liverpool and I had it on the back of my shirt.  Think it must have stuck as it was one of my lottery numbers as well, back in the day when I did the lottery.

Crystalhunt, some machine players thrive on the audience that they have in a shop... when they are winning.  It's like a macho ego aura that comes about staking big and winning big, people are jealous of them.  But when the money runs out, and they storm out of the shop with nothing left, the same viewing audience forget about them and move onto the next person to watch.

We had one one ''track bottomed player'' who did his conkers in only, to kick phuck out of the top screen in anger...then exposed his ''gonads'' ( when afore mentioned descended like his cash ) much to the amusement of the female staff ! 

Think his ''moniker'' was b ollack brain !   

Debate on LBC now for the next hour

A guy just came on to say he makes an extra income from the machines and wins 3 out of 4 times. Surely someone representing the bookies, nothing is beneath them in their attempts to keep these machines from being restricted.
Even O'Brien said he didn't believe him.

If that was the case, his photo would have been sent round all the shops in the area and would have been either barred or restricted to a certain level.  A non-profitable customer is not appreciated anywhere is the bookmaking society these days.

Utter tosh !

LBC owned by a former  Bookie