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FelipeMassa
07 Apr 16 17:12
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Date Joined: 12 Nov 08
| Topic/replies: 75 | Blogger: FelipeMassa's blog
I was betting the 15:55 race at Taunton where one of the favourites Billy Merriott did not start the race. I was under the impression that the bets i was placing during the race would get a reduction factor applied to them, as the horse had not been taken out of the market by betfair yet and no reduction factor had been applied. A few minutes after the race a 25% reduction factor was applied but not on my in-play bets.
Is this how betfair always handles horses that are withdrawn immediately before the start of the race? I was pretty sure that all bets that had been placed before the horse is withdrawn would get a reduction factor applied, in play or not, if someone could confirm this please, thank you.
Pause Switch to Standard View No reduction factor on in-play bets ?
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Report Deltâ April 7, 2016 5:13 PM BST
no ir reduction
Report pablo-fanque April 7, 2016 5:14 PM BST
no reduction on in-play bets as far as I know FM
Report ian merseyside April 7, 2016 5:16 PM BST
I have also had this problem previously.  I queried it at the time and was told no reduction factor would be applied.
Report lmfao April 7, 2016 5:24 PM BST
The IR market might still show a w/d horse - but any bets matched IR on that horse are just voided without adjustment

........imo Happy
Report onlooker April 7, 2016 5:24 PM BST
If there is enough time (from the horse's Withdrawal) then it will be REMOVED from the Market - a Reduction Factor applied - and the Market will RE-Form itself (to new prices, similar to a Reduction Factor applied  market)

However - When there is insufficient time to REMOVE the horse from the Market - and, apply the apply the Reduction Factor - THEN the WITHDRAWN horse REMAINS in the Market (Frame) - even when the race goes 'In-Play'.

Any Backs or Lays THEN placed on the WITHDRAWN horse are VOID - settled as a NON-Runner, and Stakes RETURNED.

It then becomes Caveat Emptor (let the Buyer Beware) for Backers and Layers of the remaining runners (In-Running) - as some people try to INFLATE the prices of those other runners by 'spoofing' the Market with rogue 'cannot lose' false Back bets and Lays on the WITHDRAWN horse.
Report Wesdag April 7, 2016 5:29 PM BST
Shocked
Report lmfao April 7, 2016 5:32 PM BST
does that mean / suggest that when a horse is about to be withdrawn- e.g. its bolted twice round the track prior to the off- naughty  people are backing/laying the horse to push ut the price- or bring the price in - thus affecting the BSP?
Report lmfao April 7, 2016 5:33 PM BST
the BSP deduction.... % ......er....thingy???
Report freddiewilliams April 7, 2016 5:35 PM BST
onlooker knows his eggs...............
Report Keefter April 7, 2016 5:48 PM BST

Apr 7, 2016 -- 11:32AM, lmfao wrote:


does that mean / suggest that when a horse is about to be withdrawn- e.g. its bolted twice round the track prior to the off- naughty

Report Keefter April 7, 2016 5:49 PM BST
no
Report ian merseyside April 7, 2016 7:34 PM BST
It's grossly unfair for the layer.  Let's say there is a race with just 3 runners and the decimal prices are 2, 7 and 50.  A punter wants to lay the outsider at 40 so places the bet to go "in-running" if not matched before the off.  Just prior to the off the short-price favourite is withdrawn so there are now only 2 runners and it's too late for Betfair to re-form the market.  As the race starts the "true" prices are now 1.5 and 8 and some lucky client is now able to back the horse in question at 40 rather than 8.  Surely there is something wrong here?
Report Northofperth April 7, 2016 8:29 PM BST
This clears up my question , I was about to say that I can't ever remember the bookies making a book that was overbroke on a 4 runner race . Fact is they didn't !
Report longbridge April 8, 2016 10:07 AM BST
From Betfair's R&Rs (section 13.6):

"In the event of a late withdrawal, Betfair reserves the right to remove the runner after completion of the race. In this case only those bets matched prior to the off will be affected by a reduction factor."
Report dave1357 April 8, 2016 10:34 AM BST

Apr 7, 2016 -- 1:34PM, ian merseyside wrote:


It's grossly unfair for the layer.

Report dave1357 April 8, 2016 10:37 AM BST
ian merseyside • April 7, 2016 7:34 PM BST
It's grossly unfair for the layer.  Let's say there is a race with just 3 runners and the decimal prices are 2, 7 and 50.  A punter wants to lay the outsider at 40 so places the bet to go "in-running" if not matched before the off.  Just prior to the off the short-price favourite is withdrawn so there are now only 2 runners and it's too late for Betfair to re-form the market.  As the race starts the "true" prices are now 1.5 and 8 and some lucky client is now able to back the horse in question at 40 rather than 8.  Surely there is something wrong here?


And if the fav falls in the race he gets scooped as well?

Anyone who just leaves money on because he hasn't got matched is a mug who is going to lose all his money anyway, so no point in trying to protect him imo.
Report onlooker April 8, 2016 3:24 PM BST
ian merseyside 07 Apr 16 19:34 

It's grossly unfair for the layer.  Let's say there is a race with just 3 runners and the decimal prices are 2, 7 and 50.  A punter wants to lay the outsider at 40 so places the bet to go "in-running" if not matched before the off.  Just prior to the off the short-price favourite is withdrawn so there are now only 2 runners and it's too late for Betfair to re-form the market.  As the race starts the "true" prices are now 1.5 and 8 and some lucky client is now able to back the horse in question at 40 rather than 8.  Surely there is something wrong here?
------------------

Let me put your - and others  - mind at rest - ian merseyside

In such a scenario ....

Outstanding 'KEEP LAYS' - that is - a PRE-race bet placed to, "bet to go "in-running" if not matched before the off. ... are automatically CANCELLED  by Betfair at the OFF..... In order to PROTECT Layers from LAYing at 'over the odds'(in the now reduced odds market).

So the, "40," offer does NOT become available to ANY Backer whilst the race is 'In-Running' - and - IF, I repeat IF, somebody was matched at, 40." in the seconds BETWEEN the horse being Withdrawn and the OFF - then that, "40," Bet WOULD be subject to the REDUCTION FACTOR - as it was matched PRE-race.
-------------

Also - If there was a Withdrawal for the 3:00pm race, at say 1:30pm - meaning that there WAS time to apply a Reduction Factor, and for a market to Re-form - and you had left a 'Keep Lay' in the system, because you would not be around at race time -
- Then THAT 'Keep Lay' WOULD have the REDUCTION Factor applied to it - and the price made SHORTER, accordingly (in order to Protect you from Laying at over the odds.

The slight downside to that situation, though, is that - you may have backed the horse Pre-race at 10.0, and left a stake saving, or All Green, 'Keep Lay' in at 2.0 (Evens) in case it got beaten after going close  inside the final furlong.

BUT - Your 'Keep Lay' would have been REDUCED to, say, 1.7, by the REDUCTION Factor - and, although the horse was eventually matched at 2.0 'in-running', but it did NOT touch 1.7 - your Stake saving 'Keep Lay' then goes UNmatched.
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