Three NH meetings today and all

good afternoon paris i thought the same i had planned to go to rasen,still they cant all have cards as good as ludlow.

The problem remains that there are simply too many fixtures to service the population of NH horses. With another three cards tomorrow and four on Saturday (for the second week in a row) it is hardly surprising we can't get competitive meetings today.

I don't mind the rubbish racing as you can normally put a line through more horses.

Heavy going always reduces fields as does Good to firm. I could have gone to Wincanton today (only 35 minute drive) using a RUK badge but the poor card and the weather persuaded me to stay at home.

Aren't the current ground conditions contributing to the modest turnout?

Wincanton having heavy ground is as rare as Chavski beating The Mighty Spurs at White Hart Lane.

I would agree loper.  Most people understand ground conditions are the key driver to field sizes.

regardless of the ground rasen seldom get many runners midweek.

Agree ground conditions a significant factor but suspect 2 meetings today would always have been adequate and provided better fare.

As to the loaded question from loper I would remind him that it's not THAT long ago when CFC fans referred to it as "Three Point Lane".

I suppose age dulls the memory.......

Ground conditions are indeed a major factor, but anyone who doesn't think there are too many fixtures is deluded.

There are too many fixtures at certain times of the year but the other problem is race planning. Too many races have restrictive conditions. Mares only, 3yo's only (when 90% of young flat horses are still racing on the AW or abroad), NH novice hurdles, rated handicaps etc etc. Make more races open to more horses and you would get more runners.

"Mares only, 3yo's only (when 90% of young flat horses are still racing on the AW or abroad), NH novice hurdles, rated handicaps etc etc. Make more races open to more horses and you would get more runners."

That, with respect, couldn't be more wrong (more's the pity).

Australia has a population a third of that of the UK and yet they seemingly have no trouble filling fields for 4 meetings a day and as many as 8 on saturdays and sundays. And those are 8 and 9 race cards. The 'too many racing fixtures' doesn't hold up for me.

I was referring to the racehorse population, not the number of peoople in the UK. I don't think they have a lot of racing in Bangladesh per head of population, for example.

just looking at the tingle creek card of 1994 ran on good/soft

3 run
9 run
4 run
7 run
6 run
4 run

prime saturday card 33 runners good prize money

Suprising. Wonder why that was?
Though that card never seems to attact big fields and probably won't this year either.

long walk card two weeks later ascot ran on good ground

8 run
5 run
8 run
8 run
4 run
4 run

out of the 33 runners you did have horses like cab on target,viking flagship,nakir,travado,deep sensation,relkeel.oh so risky,sybillin,and king credo.

12 months later on the same tingle creek card on good ground the william hill h/cap hurdle which had 7 runners in 1994 got 22 runners in 1995

Weird fixture list this week, been looking play up some winnings all week on some novice hurdle/chase races on a decent track. Been all gaff tracks since saturday apart from Wincanton who put up a poor card.

And one of these 'unattractive races' was named after the legendary Silver Buck , as good a jumper of a fence as you will see, and a winner of a staggering number of races.

thats harsh on ludlow ibrahima a very well run track with decent prize money,

what a bunch of horses foxy, remember them well.

Ludlow is a well-run track, just not one I particualry like for punting. Rather have Catterick or Hexham even though the quality is worse.

i noticed that sixtwosix amazing days in national hunt racing the sport was totally dominated by the north in those days i am pretty sure silver buck once ran at folkestone on a monday.

Fair point foxy, i like ludlow, but they had a handicap novice races x2(should be max of 1 with one novice race), a claimer, a mares race and nh flat race.

if ged or onlooker are around perhaps they could check up on that.

yesterday wasnt one of there better cards ibrahima,i remember what was probably the best ever novice hurdle ran at the shropeshire venue.

sublime fellow
go ballistic
certainly strong

more recently of course my tent or your made his debut at ludlow.

A bit like Uttoxeter, often see a smart novice appear at uttox.

coneygree started at uttoxeter.

amazing where some of them start pridwell started of winning 2 all weather hurdles at southwell then in his 3rd race won a grade 2 at the trials meeting {wasnt called that back then }then ran 2nd in the supreme novice hurdle,and ended up beating istabraaq at liverpool.


which by the way was mccoys best ever ride never mind wachita lineman, which wasnt even the best ride of that years festival

i was on another thread earlier talking about the unsinkable boxer he made his chase debut at uttoxeter.

Was very disappointed with Unsinkable Boxer as a chaser.

me to barton even his warwick win over fences was unimpressive after his win in the sefton i thought he could be anything,his racing life went full circle starting of with miss m t condon at tralee and finishing of with the same trainer at naas.


still he will always be remembered as the easiest winner of a festival handicap anybody will ever see.

he won of 128 at cheltenham 3 runs earlier at plumpton he won of 94 at 11/10 seems quite generous now.

foxy did u and ryan wee note used to post on the same thread ?

dont know who you mean bigmart

sorry foxy must be someone with similar name sorry to have intruded

not seen ryne post for a bit he has his own thread

its no trouble bigmart

I thought at the time when he won the Gold Card that he wuld have gone very close in the Stayers Hurdle. Not sure why he never made the transition to chasing. He was definitely built for the job.

quite possibly derrymoyle won in 98 he was no world beater

sorry it was princeful be same as no world beater

Princeful, trained by jenny P ?

Foxy,

Silver Buck won a conditions chase at Folkestone in November 1980 according to Chasers and Hurdlers, and the only meeting there that month was on a Monday, Nov 17th.

The Headmaster, you don't specify why you disagree with my post. I hear trainers interviewed every day who say they can't find a race for a horse that they are desperate to run. Too many races limited to novices, conditional riders, age groups, rating limits etc. Have a look at the races in the next week and find an opportunity for a 8yo handicap hurdler or chaser rated 130.

good morning the anorak

thanks for confirming that,

i had in fact got it in my head the horse was entered and as at that stage i had never been to folkestone i thought i would make the long journey,i didnt go which made me think the meeting might have been called off.back in those days the dickensonns sent there horses all over the place pretty sure bregawn won at hereford to course which are now sadly and shamefully no longer with us ,instead we have chelmsford.

Hi Sageform,
Multiple points to make, but let's tackle the idea that the more you restrict a race the smaller the field size.

Take a late October Chepstow card.  On it, there is a 5K 2m "NH" Mares' Maiden Hurdle for 5yo and up and a 25K C2 Conditions Hurdle for 4yo and up, also over 2m.  The first race won't allow horses to enter that are colts, horses or geldings, that have run on the Flat, that are 4yo or that have won a Hurdle race or a Steeple Chase.  We're probably talking about 8% of the available horse population.  The second race is eligible to every single horse in training that is 4 or older.  100% of the available horse population.

Given that the first race has multiple restrictions on it and the second has none, bar age, and is worth 20K more, which race do you think will have a bigger field?

(and re the 8yo H'capper rated 130 I have no idea what trip, part of the country or profile this horse is but, in the next week, I stopped counting when I got to 20 races....)

No late chepstow fixture on my calendar

I'm sure you can find some but look at Uttoxeter on Tuesday. Only 2 chases and noth novice. First today was hands and heels NH novice hurdle. Who wants to run a green novice under an inexperienced jockey with no whip?

"No late chepstow fixture on my calendar" - thanks for that.

It was a hypothetical question.  For the pedants, please use an early-mid October Chepstow fixture as an example  

It would be a little more enlightening, though, if you offered a view on which race would have the bigger field.  I have quite a strong opinion fwiw.

Re Uttoxeter on Tuesday, the media rights deals some courses are on pay less for Novice Hurdles and less for CJ's races, but both types of race courses are, under Rule, obliged to run a certain amount of.  One particular group has a regular habit of bundling both 'commercially unattractive' racetypes together and getting the bad news out the way in one go. So you will see a lot of CJ's Nov Hdles at Uttoxeter and Sedgefield...for example.  I agree with you sageform, it's not particularly appealing race-planning.

As to your question re Chepstow, it would depend on the 5 day decs. If a Nicholls or Henderson 130 rated bumper was jocked up in either race, there would not be many runners. Ditto if a 140 rated hurdler was an intended runner in a novice chase.

With respect entries or decs would not make any difference at all.  Hundreds of Maiden Hdles at a number of tracks have proved that already.

Don't agree. You might get a few low rated horses running for experience but few trainers would risk running second with a decent horse to a likely odds on shot. The other thing about trainers of course is that they will find plenty of excuses not to run an unpromising horse until later in the season when they feel obliged to reveal the weak hand and risk losing the horse to a point to point sale. Hence the divided 2yo maidens in October/November on the flat and plenty of bumper/novice hurdle runners in April if the going is OK.

Sageform, if what you're saying is true you'll be able to pick out the highest placed British runner in the Champion Bumper over the last 10 years, look at where the horses made their hurdling debut the following season and list a string of novice hurdles that cut up to 4 or 5 runners......good luck.

Today's Wetherby card is another prime example of the results of a bloated fixture list. Every field single figures, 5 in the opening novice hurdle and 2 runners in the Nov Hcp Chase.
And yes the ground is testing, but probably no more than you would expect of most meetings in December.