Whatever Happened To Daniel Prenn`s Famous Colours ....

John Dunlop trained for him as well,I think

I was about to say "Seymour Hicks" but he wasn't

I can only remember John Winter training for him lead on, can u remember any horses?

Memory can play

it sure can

Memory can play tricks but seem to remember Beau Reef(Dunlop) and Vincent(Jeremy Hindley) for a start

laptop can play tricks too

Vincent, I remember him well, now you have reminded me. Very decent horse.

Did he have any hurdlers? I think he did but not sure.

Did Riboreen run in the Oaks (71 or 72) and if so, where did it finish? Brian Taylor was John Winter`s jockey at the time.

I started getting interested in racing/betting around 1978..the year Shirley Heights won the Derby...so always kept a eye on J Dunlop's horses and associated owners and stables associated with them too.I also used to regularly get Timeform's "50 to follow" which always had a fair smattering of aforementioned stables.Off topic but I think Seymour Hicks was owned by Peter Brandt...even more off topic John Dunlop won the November Handicap in 1979(or possibly 1980) with Morse Code..backed from 14/1 to 11/2 minutes before the off...salmon pink colours but can't remember the owner...going to rummage through some old boxes to see if I've still got some of those old 50 to follow...used to give the owners and I'm sure Beau Reef was in there owned by D. Prenn

Lord Halifax owned both Shirley Heights and Morse Code

You mentioned hurdlers,Mac...I think Fred Winter trained for him...unless I'm getting mixed up with John....horse called Jasper rings a bell somewhere

Ogden Phipps was another big owner with Dunlop around that time. Posse was his, the horse that Nureyef interfered with and was disqualified for in 2000 Guineas 1980. And of course Quick As Lightning which won the 1000 Guineas, Brian Rouse rode her. I bet her ante post @ 33/1

Fred and John were brothers I think and it certainly rings a bell.

Duke and Duchess of Norfolk were other big owners for Dunlop, with Ragstone (bit before your time) and Moon Madness of course. JD and Ron Hutchinson were a great team early 70s.

Castle Keep one my great favourites...typical JD horse ..kept on steadily improving and you could rely on them to do that

Sir Robin McAlpine was another big Dunlop patron. Circus Plume.

Castle Keep was a star. Dunlop was a great trainer and a great ambassador for racing.

I`m sure that Bedtime was owned by Lord Halifax too, but he was trained by Dick Hern. I remember seeing Bedtime and Teleprompter (Lord Derby) in the paddock at Ayr and they were 2 massive horses.

Billion, owned by Nelson Bunker Hunt who was also a patron of John Dunlop.

Trusted, Word of Honour, Red Ruby, Pillar Box, (one eyed) Belper, Northleach Palmerston.  Who was the owner of Sea Chimes, who I think won a Coronation Cup for John Dunlop?

Nelson Bunker Hunt owned some brilliant horses over the years, with Dahlia, Exceller and Empery springing to mind. I remember Billion. Nelson Bunker Hunt was a billionaire until he and his brother William Herbert Hunt tried but failed to corner the Silver market. His father made his fortune with Placid Oil Company and his brother Lamar Hunt owned the Kansas City Chiefs and founded the American Football League. The winners of the AFL are awarded the Lamar Hunt Trophy, named in his honour and go forward to the Super Bowl.

Mr J Thursby owned Sea Chimes which won Coronation Cup

Mr J Thursby owned Sea Chimes which won Coronation Cup

Belper loved Brighton

Thanks again TMM.  Do you think that John Dunlop was an earlier Luca Cumani in that he could win a maiden and handicaps before winning Group races with a horse;  in my time, a trainer of a "Group horse in a handicap".  He knew what he had.

Yes, definitely ali. He was a master trainer. He also trained Dione to win a Group 1 in France which was incidentally owned by Daniel Prenn. Early 80s, I think. Prix de l`Opera at Longchamp?

I`m almost certain that Daniel Prenn owned a very smart hurdler at one time but name and trainer escapes me. Probably Fred Winter as lead on earlier said.

Funny enough, I backed Dione to win the 7f fillies maiden at HQ, and I think she went on to finish 3rd in the 1000 Guineas 2 weeks later.

John Dunlop must have took over his horses when John Winter retired, I think. Another good sprinter he owned was Balliol which won the Cork & Orrery at Royal Ascot.

..... trained by John Winter and ridden by Brian Taylor, of course.

goodnight ali and lead on

.... thanks for the memories.

Off to watch the NFL on sky 1.30 start

Hi Mac,  Only just seen this.  Can anyone recall whether the green was Dark (al la Fahd Salman) or Emerald  Green. If the latter it is currently available.  If the former it is still registered, but I have yet to find out who to.

Themightymac, in one of your posts last night you said Lord Halifax owned Morse Code who won the 1979 November H'cap but am pretty sure it was actually Arthur Budgett.

It was me who mentioned Morse Code to Themighymac,forgotmyusername ..the salmon pink bit had stuck in my mind...the Halifax colours had light blue and chocolate,I think.I suppose that John Gosden is the nearest modern day equivalent to John Dunlop,although the handicapping structure etc. has moved on...Ed Dunlop's not too bad either,of course

I have a black and white picture of the finish of the 79 November Handicap and the colours look very much like Budgett's and do not have the hooped cap of his Lordship. Morse Code by Morston, trained by John Dunlop.

Seymour Hicks raced in similar colours,hence my confusion...I think he might have won the race named after Dan Prenn at the York charity day

similar to Dan Prenn colours ,that is

I am pretty sure that Seymour Hicks was owned by one of the Mcalpines.  The race you are thinking of was the Dan Prenn Great Yorkshire Stakes but he also won the Great Voltigeur that season as well.

Forget that Mcalpine rubbish.  The owner was a Peter M Brant.  Still looking for his colours.

Think onlooker's wanting you on the Jim Joel thread,blackbarn

Blackbarn, have a feeling that the colours for Peter Brant were something along the lines of Dark green, light green hoop and armlets. Seem to recall Seymour Hicks running in the Mecca Scottish Classic at Ayr in July of that year (not totally sure if I got the race title spot on).

forgotmyusername - Well remembered and you are almost certainly correct.  I cannot find a listing for his colours but the photo's I have found all (black and white) show a dark jacket with a lighter hoop and armlets.

All the photo's of his US bred and owned horses seem to be running in Tabors colours

Oh forgot, that race at Ayr was the Mecca Bookmakers Scottish Derby, where he was an unlucky and fast finishing second to Dazari.

Good shout Blackbarn, seem to recall he was a bit unlucky and/or given a poor ride by Eddie Hide perhaps? Have no form books but that at least is my era!

Remember being all over Jalmood for the Derby...went down to Epsom...when I saw Golden Fleece in the parade ring I knew I was beat...shocked that he finished only 13th though,I think....However he made no mistake in the Scottish Derby...

Did Seymour Hicks run in the Arc that year?1984?

Don't recall him doing so Lead On but that is only from memory, no form book to hand.

lead on - He did run in the Arc in 1983. He was 11th out of 14 to All Along.  Apart from that, his last run that season, and his first run (When Timeform says he wasn't fit) of the season. He won Five races and finished second in the other. Timeform rated him 125 for the season.

blackbarn - Prenn`s colours were light green hoops and cap.

Regards Morse Code, correct it was the Budgett colours and not Halifax, although I think it was owned by Arthur Budgett`s brother whose name escapes me.

How much would the colours cost if buying now? Fixed price or auction?

Thanks mac.  I will check the light green and black combo.  Re cost, probably not a lot, particularly as Emerald Green and Black in the precise Prenn format is currently available for registration.

mac - the black/light green combo is not available and neither is black/dark green.  Black and Emerald Green in the Prenn format is currently available and can be yours for a one year Registration Fee of £62.90.

Nice thread,i remember the 79 November hcp as though it was yesterday,a real gut wrencher at the time.The horse in question was Deep River trained by Ian walker,a horse I followed and knew well,basically a poor mans Sea Pigeon but a very decent handicapper in his own right,he like Sea Pigeon needed holding up for a late run but it was pretty devastating in his right grade.
Anyhow as a young carefree punter there were loads of ups and downs in those days and I was well behind the 8 ball at the time but saw Deep River was entered in the nov hcp and decided to go for it to get out of trouble,cadged a 2000/240 off Leslie Steele the night before in a Leeds night club! and had £50 on in cash on the dayin an office as didn't go to Donny and watched it with a mate on telly,very heavy ground that day but Deep River under Pat Eddery(who knew the horse well)absolutely sauntered to the front over 2 out and effortlessly went 2or 3 lengths clear,my mate was saying "well done you've done it etc" but I was screaming no he's come too soon,the last 2 furlongs seemed like an eternity and sure enough Morse Code came out of the clouds under Paul Cook and nailed him in the last 50 yards.
Seem to remember Cook getting loads of praise for his ride but it was Eddery who rarely made a mistake who absolutely fecked up that day,we all have those days but along with Jonjo doing exactly the same on Sea Pigeon 6 months before this day will go down as just about my frustrating ever!

"my most".

Ribero1,am I correct in remembering that Morse Code was bet heavily before the off?Maybe I'm wrong 'cos I'd assumed it was Willie Carson up..forgot about Paul Cook.That season's Coronation Stakes is my abiding memory of Paul Cook..I'd backed Harry Wragg's Buz Kashi @33/1...won the race beating the 1000G winner...can't remember exactly what she did wrong but stewards threw her out in favour of One in a Million...result would have probably stood these days.Always liked Paul Cook as a jockey.

Yes I think it was Lead on,i think we all kept an eye on Dunlop's middle distance handicappers in those days so I seem to recall I thought it was one of the dangers,i think I might be right in thinking it was fairly unexposed before the race?
Memory can play tricks but pretty sure it was Paul Cook.

lead on - It was deemed careless riding by Paul Cook through interference with a beaten horse at the 2 furlong marker. Under the old Rule 153, this meant that Buz Kashi had to be disqualified and placed last.  Buzz Kashi of course beat One in a Million entirely on merit and the latter had a clear run through the race. Correct decision under the rules at that time but you wuz robbed

Lead on, you were spot on re a big punt on Morse Code that day. Was working for a big bookmaker in the head office then and it was a Pricewise type gamble (from many years before that started). Think if memory serves it was doubled up in the Mackeson the same day with Man Alive and the pair were shocking results with running up money involved.

Re Morse Code - doesn't look as though he was particularly laid out for the Nov. Hcap. as he had won his two previous starts before the race; He just seemed to improve significantly as his 4 year old season progressed (J Dunlop).  He did not run at 2, won just a maiden and a poor handicap at 3, then went politely bananas at 4 winning four of his last six runs culminating in the November Handicap.

So he was fairly exposed,thanks Blackbarn,seem to recall there weren't that many runners by November handicap standards?

Thanks blackbarn

Freight Forwarder was a favourite hurdler of mine. If memory is correct I think he was trained by Arthur Pitt but I may be wrong. Arthur Pitt was a good trainer. Did he not train a few on the Flat for Jim Joel or am I getting mixed up?

themightymac - I have brought up a thread on this subject from 2011.  Haven't read through it all but he definitely trained flat horses as well.  His Ocean King won the 74 Cesarewich.

Thanks,in those days you always feared(or hoped for)stewards enquiries.Worst one ever for me was Knockando in the Magnet Cup..mid 1980's...took ages if I remember...as usual in those days the winnings would have meant a lot...not a lot of money but meaningful money.To return to Morse Code and Buz Kashi,I was just getting into racing and betting at the time and one of my "weapons" was the "Timeform 50 to Follow"...these two were in it along with some other cracking winners that year...Buttress,Expansive,Pipedreamer,Le Moss-all winning at Royal Ascot that year amongst other wins....lesser lights too like Bold Shot(beaten, I think by Steve Cauthen on his first winner in Britain) and a particular favourite of mine,Lucky Man,trained by P Taylor(I think).Thought I'd found the Holy Grail

I think Ballyhot who ran Brigadier Gerard to 1/2 length might have been one of his better ones.

Differentdrum - Do you know which race that was?  I assume it was at two?  Cheers

Westbury Stakes. I think it was the Brigadier's seasonal debut as a 4yo.

Got it. Thanks dd, didn't occur to me that it would have been at 4  No idea why

What other trainers had horses for Jim Joel apart from Murless and Cecil? Same time zone 1970s. Turnell over the jumps obviously, but I can`t remember the others. There was one in particular whose name is on the tip of my tongue but just can`t recall his name from my fading memory banks. He trained some useful stayers bit I can`t mind the horses names.

Just seen the Arthur Pitt thread. He did train Freight Forwarder. Thanks blackbarn.

Did Ryan Jarvis train any for Joel? or possibly Thompson Jones who at one time was Joels brother inlaw.

Joel's private trainer from 1942 to 1952 was J E Watts, father of J F Watts and grandfather of J W (Jack) Watts; all classic winning trainers.   Not sure if Ryan Jarvis trained for him but William certainly did in HJJ's latter years.   On the jumps front, Josh Gifford needs adding to the list.

This is where it gets tricky. Harry Thompson Jones was married to Solna, daughter of Stanhope Joel who was Jim Joel`s brother. So I think HTJ was Jim Joel`s niece by marriage and son in law of Stanhope Joel whom he definitely trained horses for. Alverton was owned by the Snailwell Stud which was owned by Stanhope Joel`s wife, I think.

Was it one of the Leader`s I`m thinking about or someone else

We might be getting somewhere mac.....

From Picture Play, Mr Joel developed a family which churned out high-class winners for him generation by generation. Mr Joel owned Sefton Lodge in Newmarket’s Bury Road and owned many, many winners sent out from that lovely property, trained by the former champion National Hunt jockey Ted Leader (whose numerous stars for Joel included Picture Play’s terrific grand-daughter WEST SIDE STORY, winner of the Yorkshire Oaks in 1962 after having been placed in both the 1,000 Guineas and Oaks) and subsequently Tom Waugh. However, in the 1960s he also began to patronise the Warren Place stable then under the control of Sir Noel Murless. Among the first batch of horses which Murless received was ROYAL PALACE, a great-grandson of Picture Play. He proved a true star, winning the 2,000 Guineas and Derby in 1967 under the great Australian rider George Moore who spent that one season in England as Murless’ jockey. The following year Royal Palace proved himself a champion four-year-old, ridden by the young Scottish rider Sandy Barclay (who had been appointed to the position of stable jockey after Moore’s departure and who partnered Mr Joel’s CONNAUGHT into second place behind SIR IVOR in that year’s Derby). Royal Palace’s dam CRYSTAL PALACE subsequently bred for Mr Joel the Royal Ascot winners PRINCE CONSORT and SELHURST.

Great post blackbarn and very informative. And you`ve pulled the rabbit out of the hat! Tom Waugh, that`s the trainer I was trying to remember, lol. Now the six million dollar question, what was the real good staying handicapper he trained for Jim Joel whose name escapes me?

Another question I meant to ask you blackbarn. I noticed a book for sale, which I`m sure you know about and probably have, the B & H book of owners colours. The sample pages shows the colours but I can`t see the relevant owners names next to them. I was going to buy it but no use if it doesn`t list owners names next to the colours. Can you help clear up the matter and confirm if this is so? Thanks

blackbarn has the B&H book - as do I.

The Owners names are underneath the Colours shown.
It was published in the mid-1970s

Thanks onlooker. I thought so, Must just be a bad scan of the book.

mac - Onlooker correct as usual.   There are two main "Colours" books.  The B & H published in 1973 and the Cartier Book of Racing Colours of 2004.  The hole in the middle is partially filled by the Racing Post but you are still a bit stuck if you get a set of colours registered after 73 which lapsed before the start of the RP; Then you are reliant on other publications, racecards, videos, and of course the "large pile of notebooks"

mightymac - was it Knighthood you're thinking of?

On the subject of Peter Brant does anyone know what happened to a horse called Merce Cunningham? He really looked the part and was related to Caerleon, Vision and Good Thyne so he had the pedigree to make a stallion.

Merce Cunningham ...

Was trained by Major Hern - and was one of the Winter Favourites for the Classics - based more on his breeding, being a full-brother to Vincent O'Brien's Caerleon, both sired by Nijinsky - than any spectacular 2-yr-old results.

He was 3rd, in a Maiden, on his debut - then second to Bellotto in the Acomb at York - finishing his juvenile career with at 'one-paced' 3rd to Thameen in the Haynes, Hanson & Clark Stakes at Neewbury - when sent off 4/6 Fav.

Did not make his 3-yr-old debut until June 8th - when 3rd at Goodwood - and had his only other 3-yr-old outing at the end of that month when again a disappointing Fav for another Maiden - having been tried in first-time blinkers, presumably in desperation.

He wwas the hobdayed (breathing operation) during the winter - and that 'did the trick'.

Came back as a 4-yr-old - and won on his seasonal reappearance, when beating Son Of Sixpence by 3 lengths in the Empire Handicap at Bath... of an Official rating of just 79!

He then won another Handicap at New market, under a mere 4lb penalty,  from Orient Line.

Moved up to Listed class, and won his next two at Newbury and Newmarket - Aston Park Stakes, and Fred Archer, respectively - before winning Group 3 Prix Nieuill at Saint-Cloud.

He then flopped badly on his final outing, when Fav for the Geoffrey Freer.

He had not been gelded - so went to Stud - However, he did not sire anything of significance.

Looks like Merce was sold to stand as a stallion in Argentina, and was there for several years before moving on to (and probably ending up in) Chile.

One of his daughters, Bonaventura, won the Group 1 Gran Premio de Honor in Palermo (Buenos Aires), Argentina, in 1996.

Thanks both.

Thanks blackbarn.

Ged - no mate, not Knighthood, I remember him. He went to Turnell and done well over jumps. I`m hanged if I can remember the horse but would know if someone mentioned it. I think it was a castaway from Murless and it did well in staying handicaps.

mac - Struggling with this one.  Privy Seal?   I thought of Tartar Prince but that was not Joel's   Any other clues.

I think he trained one called Canio who might have stayed well. I remember being at Newbury when that ran as a 2yo, might have been against Master Willie - I think it ran in Joel's colours. Then there was Tartar Prince who was a bit one-paced but stayed very well and won a couple of big handicaps and had plenty of placed efforts.

Tartar Prince, as mentioned, wasn't owned by Joel, but by then Tom Waugh was training at Sefton Lodge, which was owned by Jim Joel, having handed over Heath House to some young upstart called Prescott.

Canio never ran further than 10F as a 3-y-old and was then transferred to Candy as a 4-y-old after Waugh retired, but never won for him.

No luck yet finding the name of that elusive horse but came across a great article on the Waughs and Butters, 2 great racing families. I never knew they were related. Tom Waugh info highlighted in Bold. It was taken from http://www.oldframlinghamian.com/ who I hope don`t mind reproducing it here. Very good read which some posters might find interesting.

WAUGH & BUTTERS FAMILY (years in brackets are time at Framlingham)

In order of attending Framlingham :-

COLONEL “JIM” WAUGH (1881-84)
He was born in March 1866. When 21 (1887) he joined the London Scottish Rifle Volunteers, but in 1891 transferred into the British South African Company Police and
then the Imperial Light Horse, a voluntary cavalry corps with whom he fought in the Boer War. After fierce fighting he was surrounded at Ladysmith and went through
the famous siege, forced to eat rats to stay alive. After the war he joined the Staff of Administration of the South West African Protectorate and eventually became a fruit
farmer, growing mainly oranges. During WW1 he joined the Natal Light Horse and also spent some time in the army in German West Africa. He was the first secretary of the SOF.

CHARLES “Charlie” R W R WAUGH (1882-85)
He trained in Austria and Germany, hence his house and son were called after Carlburg! He assisted his brother Richard, but had few successes in racing, because he
didn’t get many good horses to train. He also trained for Mr Austin, Mr Buston and for Sir Victor Sassoon. In 1903 he won the Lincoln Handicap with Over Norten, in
1908 he won the Cambridgeshire with Marcovil, in 1914 won the Chesterfield Cup with Kiltoi and in 1930 won the Manchester Cup with Mint Master.
He was also Vice Chairman of Newmarket District Council. He died in 1948.
See http://www.horseracinghistory.co.uk/hrho/action/viewDocument?id=913

“HUGO” EDWIN OTHO WAUGH (1884-87)
He was born in October 1871 and took on a grocers shop in Newmarket and became a tradesman rather than a trainer.
He died in January 1933 at the age of 61.

MATTHEW “DAWSON” WAUGH (1885-89)
He was born in 1873 while his father was based in Poland and was the 7th son of a 7th son! He was very well grounded in stable management by his father. He used to
feel all his horses legs each morning saying “Any fool can see when a horse is lame, but it takes an expert to detect the slightest bit of heat, when a leg needs to be rested.”
He was first of all assistant to John Porter at Kingsclere. He then took the place of his ill brother Willie (who did not attend Framlingham) as trainer for Prince Festitics in Hungary. His time in Hungary was very successful, winning every big race for the Prince. In 1908 he returned with his family to Somerville Lodge in Newmarket to become private trainer for Walter Raphael. His racing colours were orange with brown braid and cap. The first winner he actually owned himself was Diagoras, ridden by Otto Madden, brother of Arthur Madden, who was interned at Ruhleben with Percy Waugh (99-00) and Alec Waugh (04-05). Within 4 years of returning to England he had won the 1912 Derby with Tagalie (a filly which was very rare for the Derby) and had twice been a close second with Louviers in 1909 and Louvois in 1913 (the year a suffragette was killed by the King’s horse). During WW1 he joined the local Veterans Training Corps. They guarded the railway tunnels at night. After WW1 he trained for an American, James Corrigan, who was a steel magnate from Ohio. He was sent some horses to train by another American, Strathearn B Thompson. Later he trained for Sir Edward Hulton, winning the Oaks with Straitlace in 1924. After Sir Edward’s death he trained for Lord Howard de Walden, for whom he had many successes, as well as for John Baillie and several other owners. During WW2 he joined a local part time police patrol as a Special Constable. He retired to Bournemouth in the late 1940’s and handed his stable on to his nephew, Jack Waugh (K25-27). He was President of the SOF. He died on 3 November 1955 at the age of 83. In 1913 he gave the altar in the College Chapel and in 1914 was SOF President.
See http://www.horseracinghistory.co.uk/hrho/action/viewDocument?id=1116

ROBERT THOMAS “Tom” WAUGH (1888-90)
He was born in January 1874. Like many in his family, he was a racehorse trainer based in Newmarket, Suffolk. In 1908 he won the Liverpool Aintree Cup with Santeve and in 1920 he trained the winner of the 1000 Guineas – Cinna for Sir Robert Jardine. He owned a plot of land between the Fordham and Snailwell roads, where he kept Red Poll cattle and White Wyandotte hens and eventually built a house called Meynell. He also had a number of racing pigeons. He retired in 1940 and died in Newmarket in May 1946 at the age of 72.

JOSEPH ARTHUR “FRANK” BUTTERS (1888-95)
Frank Butters was Champion Trainer 8 times between 1927 and 1949. In addition to training the winners of 15 Classics in England he also trained Irish Derby winners Turkhan, Nathoo and Hindostan and Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe winner Migoli for the Aga Khan III.
Frank Butters was born in Austria, where his father Joseph rode and trained, and became a successful trainer there himself. During the 1914-18 war he was nominally interned, then trained in Italy before being given a 4 year contract as private trainer to the 17th Earl of Derby at Stanley House, Newmarket, becoming leading trainer inhis first year there, 1927. When Lord Derby withdrew from racing for economic reasons, Butters leased the Fitzroy Stables in Newmarket as a public trainer. Here he trained for Mr A W Gordon and, later, the Aga Khan III and the 5th Earl of Durham. He considered Bahram to be the best horse he ever trained. Important successes:

2000 Guineas
Bahram 1935 (T)

1000 Guineas
Fair Isle 1930 (T)

Derby
Bahram 1935 (T)
Mahmoud 1936 (T)

Oaks
Beam 1927 (T)
Toboggan 1928 (T)
Udaipur 1932 (T)
Light Brocade 1934 (T)
Steady Aim 1946 (T)
Masaka 1948 (T)

St Leger
Fairway 1928 (T)
Firdaussi 1932 (T)
Bahram 1935 (T)
Turkhan 1940 (T)
Tehran 1944 (T)

Other major race(s)
(featuring horses in this database)
Princess of Wales's Stakes Colorado 1927 (T)
Eclipse Stakes Colorado 1927 (T)
Eclipse Stakes Fairway 1928 (T)
Champion Stakes Fairway 1928 (T)
Champion Stakes Fairway 1929 (T)
Champion Stakes Umidwar 1934 (T)
Jockey Club Stakes Umidwar 1934 (T)
Dewhurst Stakes, Newmarket Bala Hissar 1935 (T)
L’Arc De Triomphe Migoli 1948 (T)

Sir Alfred Munnings (1891-92) who was at the College with Frank, painted Mahmoud at the 1936 Derby. This painting was later used on a postage stamp. He was President of the SOF and died in 1958.

FREDERICK “Fred” STANLEY BUTTERS (1898-00)
He was born on 3 December 1887. Unlike his brothers, he did not enjoy his time at the College and left after a couple of years. After finishing school he went to work for
his father at Kremlin House, becoming his travelling headman. Just before WW1 he went out to Austria to join his brother Frank, where he was interned for a short while. By 1915 he had acquired a few horses of his own to train, which he did with some success in Austria and Italy. In 1919 he came back to Newmarket and started training there. In 1924 he leased Beverley House stables from his brother-in-law. He then moved to Heath House where he gradually built up a stable of a dozen or so. When his father Joe died, he took over at Kingsclere. His greatest success was training Midday Sun to win the Coronation Derby of 1937 for his patron Lettice Miller. They had very nearly won the Oaks two years earlier
when the filly Ankaret was beaten only by a short head. She was also the first lady owner to win the Derby at Epsom. This win brought off a hat trick for the Butters brothers in this race. Midday Sun went on to win the Hardwicke Stakes in the same year. In 1939 Kingsclere was shut down and he trained instead at Colana House, Newmarket until his retirement in 1950. He died in August 1967.

“PERCY” RICHARD WAUGH (1899-1900)
He was born on 25 November 1882. He was also a racehorse trainer, but based in Hoppegarten, Germany. I can find no information on winners. During WW1 he was interned in Ruhleben prison camp, along with his brother Alex, from the beginning of November 1914 for 4 years. They were housed in 23 barracks about 200 men in each, with six men in each box and only a sack filled with straw and a thin blanket were provided as bedding. After WW1 he trained again in Germany, before going to Denmark, where he was a leading trainer for many seasons and had numerous Classic winners in Scandinavia. During WW2 he was very involved with the underground during the German occupation, using various boxes in the stable yard for storage and other anti Nazi activities. After the war he was based at Damgarden and exercised
his horses on the racecourse at Klampenborg. In March 2011 we were contacted by Casper Waugh Stjerne Jensen. Percy was his great great grandfather and he lives in Denmark. He had the following additional information on his great great grandfather :- “He is one of the greatest trainers/personalities in Danish Derby History. He trained many horses for the Derby and won the Danish and Spanish Derbys with 20 different horses - 13 triumphs in Denmark and 7 in Sweden. The first triumph came in 1910 on Klampenborg racecourse. He went on to win with KLAMPENBORG (1910), LILLE CLAUS (1911), MARQUETTE (1912), LARCH (1929), HOLGER DANSKE (1932), NILS (1933), SAN FRANCISCO (1935), CAVALLO (1936), LUNDTOFTE (1938), SUNBEAM (1939), ASA THOR (1945), HALLO (1946), VARNA (1947). In Sweden he won with LARCH (1929), NILS (1933), SAN FRANCISCO (1935), CAVALLO (1936), LUNDTOFTE (1938), SKIRNER (1944), HALLO (1946). Percy’s son, Richard Wilhelm Waugh, “Willie” also went on to win 3 Derbys in Denmark with SKYMASTER (1948), FAR WEST (1950), BOLZANO (1961). He was the first trainer to win all Derbys in Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway and Sweden) in 1950 with same horses "Far West".”

LT COLONEL JAMES “Jim” WAUGH BUTTERS OBE (1899-1904)
Like his brothers he was brought up in Germany and after attending the College returned to Germany where he became fluent in German and apart from during WW1 he lived in Germany until 1929. he never wanted to train but begged his father to allow him to become a vet. However, his father found him too valuable as the secretary who dealt with all the correspondence and acted as a popular go between with the owners. When WW1 broke out he joined the Honourable Artillery Company (HAC) and wanted a Cambridge regiment, but was turned down, so travelled to London and enlisted as a private but he acquired a commission and transferred to the Intelligence Corps, no doubt because of his fluent German. During the war he was gassed and for the rest of his life suffered coughs and chest problems. He ended WW1 as a captain and was awarded the OBE. He stayed in the Army until 1929. From 1918 to 1920 he was a member of the staff of the Military Governor at Cologne. Then he was seconded to the Foreign Office,
where he served with the British Department of the Inter Allied Rhineland Commission. In 1921 he got married and settled in Bachstrasse, Germany, at the confluence of the Rhine and Moselle rivers. In 1929 they moved to Esher in Surrey near Sandown racecourse. His friend Eric Rickman, also a racing correspondent , introduced him to the sporting press and he
became racing correspondent for the Evening News. As a result of some back biting in press circles, he resigned. He was unemployed for some time in the 1930’s, until he joined Manby & Garton (importers of raw sugar cane) as their representative to the brewing trade.
As an Army reservist he was immediately called up at the start of WW2 and worked on secret work in Baker Street. He was appointed an Lt Colonel. After WW2 he returned to Manby & Garton. He was President of the SOF. He died in 1964.

JAMES “Jim” W WAUGH (1900-02)
Trainer all his life in Hoppegarten, Germany, until after WW2, when he retired and lived quietly. Never married.

“OLIVER” DAWSON BUTTERS (1902-05)
He was the youngest of the brothers to attend the College. He was also a racehorse trainer in Australia until an accident riding a racehorse affected him mentally at an early age, so his career ended abruptly.

ALEXANDER “Alec” ERNEST WAUGH (1904-05)
He was born on 25 August 1886 at Newmarket. He was a racehorse trainer and prior to WW1 trained with success in Hoppegarten. Like his brother Percy Richard Waugh (1899-00) he was also interned in Ruhleben from the beginning of November 1914 for 4 years (see Percy for more details). On release he joined Tom Waugh(1888-90) at Meynell House, until training a few jumpers at Osborne House from 1925-26. In 1926 he married and returned to Dusseldorf for several seasons and then Cologne. He was private trainer to Baron Alphonse de Rothschild, based in Oberweiden, Vienna. They returned to the UK when Hitler became Nazi Chancellor in 1933. Then became headman for Charlie Peck at Foxhill and Cowie at Tarpoley. He was also assistant to his cousin Frank Butters (1888-95) at Fitzroy. In 1950 he won the Cambridgeshire with Kelling, who also won Esher Cup and Britannia Stakes at Royal Ascot. Kesrullah won Coronation Day Stakes. Also trained numerous other winners.

“FRANK” CHARLES WAUGH (1907-08)
He was born on 26 July 1890. Like many in his family, he was a racehorse trainer and prior to WW1 also trained in Germany. He then went to Sweden and enjoyed plenty of success at Ulricksdal near Stockholm. I can find no information on specific winners. He remained unmarried, but enjoyed the nightclubs!

CHARLES “Carl” JAMES EDWARDS WAUGH (1914-19)
He was born on 22 October 1900. It is believed he was named after the house his father Charlie Waugh (1882-85) owned and built on the Bury Road, Newmarket. It is believed the house was named after Carlburg suggesting that his father trained in Austria. Carl joined the Fire Service.

THOMAS “TOM” FRANK WAUGH (K1914-21)
He was born on 27 May 1904. After leaving Framingham College he joined Barclays Bank in Cambridge. He then moved on to Barclays in Saffron Walden and then to Barclays in Royston Hertfordshire. He was told this last move was just a War move but after he was demobbed he went back to Royston where he stayed until he retired. He was treasurer to numerous local societies, British Legion, the Horticultural society, Guides, Boy Scouts and many others.

“HUGO” JAMES T WAUGH (1915-19)
He was born on 11 April 1902. He became a Bank Manager for Barclays in Stowmarket.

ALFRED WAUGH (1918)
He only spent a year at the College, but was Newmarket Racing Correspondent for Sporting Chronicle for some years, known as “Old Rowley”. In his later years he owned and edited the Racing and Football Outlook. This weekly publication enjoyed a wide circulation and is owned by the Trinity Mirror Group and still in publication.

ROBERT “Bob” THOMAS FRANK WAUGH (1924-27)
He was born on 21 March 1910. During WW2 he went into 4th Regiment (Maritime) Royal Artillery and had an interesting though alarming time manning guns on merchant ships. After the war he was involved in horse racing, but as a Stud Manager rather than Trainer. He was based at the Sallymount Stud in Co Kildare for the Aga Khan.

“JACK” ALFRED JAMES WAUGH (K1925-27)
The following is taken from the Spring 2000 OF Magazine and is based on an obituary that appeared in the “Racing Post”. He was a leading member of a notable racing dynasty and a trainer in Newmarket for nearly 30 years. Among the best horses he trained during a distinguished career were Derby runner-up Arabian Night, Almiranta, Oncidium, top sprinters Matador and Lucasland and fast two year olds Military Law, Amerigo and Queensbury.
He was born on 11 November 1911, the eldest son of trainer R T(Tom) Waugh, who won the 1000 Guineas in 1920 with Cinna and Eleanor, daughter of champion trainer Alfred Hayhoe. He was head lad/assistant to his father from 1927 to 1932 and for the next 7 seasons acted as assistant to Basil Jarvis. After territorial and war service with the Royal Artillery, he was invalided out of the army in 1942 as a result of wounds he received in the raid on Dieppe. He took over the yard of his uncle, Dawson Waugh, at Newmarket in 1943 and his first winner was Response at his home course in April that year. Waugh never won a classic, going closest with Arabian Night who, after running fourth in 2000 Guineas, finished two lengths behind Never Say Die in the 1954 Derby. Waugh also saddled Sanlinea to be third to Scratch in the 1950 St Leger and Star Moss to be a six length second to Ragusa in the 1963 renewal of the Doncaster Classic. Perhaps the most talented horses Waugh trained were Lord Howard de Walden’s pair, Amerigo and Oncidium. The former won the 1957 Coventry Stakes, but became impossible to train and was exported to the US, where he later proved a high-class racehorse and successful sire. Oncidium started second favourite for the Derby after a runaway success in the Lingfield Derby trial, but he faded in the closing stages behind the winner Santa Claus after making much of the running. He later became unenthusiastic and at Waugh’s suggestion, was moved to George Todd’s stable, where he won that year’s Jockey Club Cup and the 1965 Coronation Cup. He became champion sire twice in Australia. In 1956 the three-year-old Matador won the July Cup, the Steward’s Cup and the Stanley Ford Stakes at Birmingham as well as being beaten a short head by Ennis in the Nunthorpe. In 1966, the four-year-old filly Lucasland won the senior Service Gold Cup Handicap, the July Cup and the Diadem Stakes. Waugh also tasted big race success with Military Law, the 1956 National Breeder’s Produce Stakes winner and Queensberry, who took the Molecomb and Cheveley Park Stakes
in 1959. The trainer enjoyed his best season numerically with 43 wins in 1962. When he gave up training Waugh became Manager at the Lordship and Egerton Studs of Sir Reginald and Lady Macdonald-Buchanan, for whom he had trained for many years and he also occasionally stood as a Steward at Newmarket. He was one of the most successful members of a distinguished racing family. He was a man of the old school. Not frightened to hand out criticism if he felt it
necessary, he was also quick to give praise. And although his tongue could be very sharp, the length of the support he received from both owners and stable staff spoke for itself.
He trained over 600 winners in his working life. In 1956 he was the last trainer to win the Vodafone Stewards´ Cup and the Wokingham Handicap in the same season with different horses when Goodwood victor Matador under EPH Smith complemented the Royal Ascot success of the Joe Mercer ridden Light Harvest. The jockey George Duffield, who has recently retired from flat racing, served a seven-year apprenticeship with Jack Waugh and rode his first winner at Yarmouth on a horse called Syllable, trained by Jack, on 15 June 1967.

THOMAS “TOM” ALEXANDER WAUGH (K1927-31)
The following is taken from the Autumn 1999 OF Magazine and is based on an obituary that appeared in the “Racing Post”. He was a leading member of a notable racing dynasty and also handled champion two-year-old filly Rose Dubarry, Heavenly Sound, Photo Flash, Tartar Prince and Silver Birch during his 25 years as a trainer in Newmarket. He was born in Newmarket on 13 April 1915, the younger son of trainer R T(Tom) Waugh, who won the 1000 Guineas in 1920 with Cinna, and Eleanor, daughter of champion trainer Alfred Hayhoe. He was assistant to 4 trainers between 1933 and 1955 – his father, his cousins Fred (1898-1900) and Frank Butters
(1888-95) and Harvey Leader – before setting up on his own at Wroughton House, Newmarket in 1956. His first winner was Thorney Hill at his home course in May that year. He gained his only Classic victory with Privy Councillor, who was more than a stone below top class as a juvenile but won the Free Handicap on his return in 1962. Privy Councillor caused surprised in the 2000 Guineas when, ridden by Bill Rickaby, he led for most of the way and beat Romulus by 3 lengths. He never won again and Romulus went on to become a champion miler.
Gerald Glover, owner of Privy Councillor, also had Pettie Gina, who dead-heated for 3rd place in the 1964 1000 Guineas. He won the Palace House Stakes with Heavenly Sound in 1967 and at the end of that season moved to another Newmarket yard, Jim Joel’s Sefton Lodge.
He saddled that Owner’s Photo Flash to be 2nd to Caergwrle in the 1968 1000 Guineas and he won that year’s Sandown Anniversary Handicap with Privy Seal (later a top hurdler) and the 1971 Great Metropolitan Handicap and Northumberland Plate with Tartar Prince. Also in 1970, Jim Joel’s’ Rose Dubarry proved herself the best horse of Waugh’s career as she beat Waterloo in the Lowther Stakes and Deep Diver in the Norfolk (now Flying Childers) Stakes. Rose Dubarry was the top rated filly in the Free Handicap and the following spring ran 3rd to Waterloo in 1000 Guineas. A year after housing the champion juvenile filly in his yard, he had the joint 2nd best juvenile filly with Silver Birch’s unbeaten 1972 campaign including the Somerville Tattersall Stakes. At three, Silver Birch was runner up to Jacinth in the Coronation Stakes. He also trained the good winners Sweet Reclaim (1976 Swinley Forest Handicap), Brave Lass, Knighthood (runner up 1978 Cesarewitch), Golden Elder (a son of Silver Birch) and Canio, before retiring at the end of 1980. He was a trainer of the old school, never had a large string, preferred instead to give his horses individual attention and he enjoyed his best season numerically with 22 wins in 1962. He was the younger brother of another Newmarket trainer, Jack Waugh (K25-27) He died on 22 February 1999 at the age of 83.

“JOHN” ALEXANDER WAUGH (K1941-48)
He was born on 22 March 1931. He became assistant to George Colling at Stanley House and Hurworth House in 1951. He then worked as an assistant trainer for Reg Day, his own grandfather Richard’s successor as trainer to the Kaiser at Graditz. Next he became private trainer, based at Fitzroy House, Newmarket to owner Sir R.McAlpine, until he became stud manager for the McAlpine family at Wyck Hall Stud. In 1974 he also stud manager at Someries (for Lady Zia Wernher) and (with Lord Derby) at Woodlands. Pardoner was winner of the Newbury Spring Cup and the Blacknest Handicap at Ascot. Also numerous other handicap winners like Apiarian, Too Much, Bigamy, Royalties, Soothing Tandem, Requite Alzara, Hartswell, La Connaisseuse Dejist etc.

RICHARD “DICK” ERNEST WAUGH (K1942-49)
He was born on 27 December 1932 and remained a bachelor who was a member of a notable racing dynasty. His father Alexander “Alec” Ernest Waugh (1904-05) trained Kelling to win the 1950 Cambridgeshire and his uncle Percy Richard Waugh (1899-00) was assistant to Mat Dawson in the days of St Simon. He spent his entire working life in racing. After learning the basics with his father, he spent time as assistant to George Todd at Manton and Jack Colling at West Ilsley before turning to stud work. His first post was at Jack Pegley’s Burningfold Manor Stud in Surrey. He then managed the Hon Jim Philip’s Dalham Hall (now Gazeley) and Derisley (now Dalham Hall) Studs in Newmarket for seven years, before helping put the Aislabie Stud back on its feet. In 1980 he succeeded Philip Mitchell at Marcos Lemos’s Warren Hill Stud, which, along with neighbouring Ashley Heath, was bought by Gerald Carroll in 1988. He remained there until 1992. He also spent some time with the Curragh Bloodstock Agency. His best success as an owner and breeder came with Santa Roseanna, the three half-sisters Zepha, Countless Tully and Park Stakes winner Countess Candy and Zepha’s daughter Zalatia.

FRANK ALEXANDER “Alec” WAUGH (K75-79)
He managed the stallions and mares on Haras d’Etreham near Bayeux in Normandy, France, after a spell in Kentucky, so there are still Waughs in racing! Now manager for Alec Wildenstein at the Haras Au Bois Roussew and in addition owns his Jedburgh Stud near Bayeux.

THOMAS CHARLES SCOTT “Tom” WAUGH (49-50)
After serving an apprenticeship at PYE RADIO as an electronic engineer, he moved to METALS RESEARCH and in the mid Sixties started travelling doing installation & service work all over Europe and other countries and soon became "our man in Moscow" as he travelled to Russia so much. Since then, until he retired a few years ago, he worked in sales & marketing for OMC EASTWAY in East Europe and also set up 2 offices (for different companies) in Moscow. His last company was STARION INTERNATIONAL and as the East Europe Sales Manager he was selling Fragrances & Perfumes to the whole of what was East Europe. His Patch was Albania to Vladivostock.

HARRY DAWSON WAUGH (K77-80)
Served 3 year apprenticeship at Ransomes of Ipswich, during which time he was top  apprentice. Later he became a development engineer with Ford/Fiat Tractors at
Basildon. After 15 years he went into the audio/visual business prior to starting his own company “Think Audio/Visual” with a partner, in 2006. Early results are encouraging, detailed information can be found on their website at www.think-av.com

Canio went on to win the Coral at Cheltenham and Privy Seal went on to be 3rd to Persian War in a Champion Hurdle

It`s a long post but I thought worth listing as I found it very interesting.

blackbarn - the only other thing I remember about the mystery horse is that it had a big white blaize and it paid for a new car, lol.

themightymac

I Think the 'stayer' that are are trying to remember could be - BRIGHTNESS.

If so - then I will post his career record.

thanks onlooker but it wasn`t Brightness.

Another smart horse of Dan Prenn's that has just come to mind is Dione who was placed in the 1982 Guineas and then ran in the Oaks trained by John Dunlop.

Dione got a mention earlier on.  Looks like she went to America at the end of her 3yo season, to be trained by a certain Mr Gosden.
Not sure what happened to her, and she does not seem to have thrown anything of note.  Bit hard to tell though because there are umpteen Dione's.