Account closures

Take away their FOBTS, that'll push them into a corner. All of the staff will have to be retrained, and then they'll have to decide
whether to play the game that has made them billions over the years, or sell bread and milk.

i think the effect of these account closures/restrictions on the levy has slowly begun to dawn on those tasked with running racing...remains to be seen what can or will be done about it

20 years ago, you could get a decent bet on in the shops, the prize money was good,
today you cant get a decent bet on, and the prize money is shocking.
wheres Einstein ?

Were the horses you backed significantly beating SP though?

they only priced up 2/3 races a day.

TheFear    06 Nov 15 11:01 
Were the horses you backed significantly beating SP though?

Who f****** cares whether they beat SP or not?
If their traders/ odds compilers were doing their job it is irrelevant

I don't think magic daps is giving the full story. If you're backing horses at say 10/1 and they keep going off at 3s, it doesn't matter if they win or lose you're going to be marked.

How many horses a week, open at 10 into 3 each week.,.
Agree IDKW, if a trader thinks its a 10/1 chance and hes wrong, thats all part of the game, what happens when it go's the other way

The trader's 10/1 opinion might be correct on all known form. Except he doesn't know Barney Curley's the trainer not joe bloggs and it's not been off in it's last 6 runs?

I'm not defending the bookmakers im just making the point that beating the odds is JUST as important as the winner/loser ratio it seems.

I hope the newly created bettors forum can have some influence on the BHA position but if not by the time the BHA wake up to the position it will be too late. Personally I can only get on to any meaningful amount with Hills , 365 , Lads and PP take out £30/£50. Corals £0. Fred £0. I'm a medium stakes punter who loves the game and wants to exercise skill and judgement.in pursuit of my hobby. Isn't that the whole point of the game ffs - that's it deuced difficult to win but that it's POSSIBLE? Take the possibility away and what's the point?

Trawling round the shops trying to get the odd £50 on and being regarded akin to a criminal because you are betting on horses rather than the ceaselessly promoted machines is not much fun either. And that's before the shops start barring/restricting you.

The ONLY solution is for the right to bet on racing to be subject to a minimum liability guarantee per punter, amount dependant on quality of race.

Unless the BHA grasp this nettle , the levy will inevitably decline and racing suffer....

Should be a full stop after Hills.

Yes I have generally been beating SP, but if they advertise a price surely they are happy to take money on said bet aren't they, and then what they do is adjust prices and make a book - that term is called bookmaking. I am not asking for a thousand per bet, if I want to get 300 on I will try and bet it over 8 accounts and some even taking a shorter price elsewhere.

I can tell you now that the 5 bets with boils were not standout industry biggest at all, and yes I do and try and get best price (who don't), but if the firms actually took a view on a race they may go back to actually winning on an event rather than playing everyone individually.

I have been betting for over 20 years and when I started I used to go in my local lads, one person who I speak to now regularly used to win money year on year. He could easily have a few hundred on anything over the counter back then and there wouldn't be a phonecall to traders etc. They would take it and that was that, he never got banned or restricted. Back then they used to make plenty being bookmakers, now the reliance on the machines and online casinos is certainly telling on racing. The game is seriously doomed.

Imagine supermarkets started banning people just because you only bought products when they were on offer or bygof there would be an outcry.

The ONLY solution is for the right to bet on racing to be subject to a minimum liability guarantee per punter, amount dependant on quality of race

I don't think you can make it part of a right to bet on just racing, but it should be a condition of licence across ALL sports, because I don't think racing is in a strong enough position to hold a gun to the bookmaker's heads in this way. They would likely be happy to stop taking bets on UK racing all together, and increase the number of cartoon races they show in shops.

Ted, They know they are getting away with murder regarding horseracing, and even they know that if it carries on like it is,
then something drastic will have to be done. theyre just milking it until someone has the b0llox to step in

The off course firms need racing to the extent that it provides a smoke screen and justification for shops remaining open so that the machines can produce their guaranteed profit.  They don't want racing bets from anyone who is not a proven mug. In enforcing this policy they are prepared to exclude/limit people who may be long term losers but have either hit a short term lucky streak or don't lose at the required rate.

Until the BHA grasp this betting on racing is in terminal decline. How could it be otherwise?

if they stop offering bog, then maybe they wouldnt restrict so many accounts. i just dont see how the books offering bog on small field races can win.

If the Gambling Connission actually decided to follow their licensing objectives, then maybe we'd get somewhere

The licensing objectives

1.3 The licensing objectives are set out in the Act2 and are:
• preventing gambling from being a source of crime or disorder, being associated with
crime or disorder or being used to support crime

• ensuring that gambling is conducted in a fair and open way

• protecting children and other vulnerable persons from being harmed or exploited by
gambling

This argument about beating sp is quite ridiculous. Given that bookmakers fiddle the sp price, it's almost impossible not to beat sp, if you bet early.

The fact is they only want you to back at sp where, like FOBT's, their profit is guaranteed.

If the Starting Price Regulatory commission did their job properly, many punters wouldn't be beating sp. Of course, this will never happen, because the bookmaker has influence in every racing regulatory body.

In the meantime, the bookmakers have filled racing. 

I've just been banned today from ****. First time in 30years been banned by a Bookmaker, chuffed to bits!! :-) LOL!!

What is your query about? Sportsbook
How can we help today? Bet Refusal



    Louise    Fri, 11/06/15 11:24:02 am Europe/London   

Hello Pete. How may I help you?




    Pete    11:24:47 am   

Please can you tell me why you've refused a bet of £25 at 9/4 and again at 15/8. HArdly going to bankrupt anybody




    Louise    11:25:01 am   

Let me check that for you. Would you mind waiting for a few moments?




    Pete    11:25:18 am   

OK




    Louise    11:28:41 am   

Thank you for waiting, Pete. Having checked your recent attempts, it appears that the bets are being rejected by automatic risk controls that have been put in place by our Trading Department. We are sorry; however, on review of your details, it would appear very unlikely that any bet restrictions will be lifted.




    Pete    11:30:32 am   

What a joke! If you dont want my business just tell me, i'll close the account and happy to go elsewhere. I'm hardly a big punter, or is it because i don't do the slots or casinos




    Louise    11:31:08 am   

Please be advised that we operate an automatic bet acceptance process through a series of internal risk management processes which have been developed around our pricing and product offering.




    Pete    11:33:01 am   

what kind of gobblygook is that. I'll withdraw my whole £25 whilst i still can before you go bust, and then i#ll close the account. I look forward to forwarding a copy of the transcript to various websites, good for the ego and all that. First time in 30 years ive been banned by a bookie for winning, YAY!




    Louise    11:33:42 am   

Whilst we understand your position, this is a comprehensive and robust process and it is highly unlikely that any account parameters would be reversed.
However, you still can play on other platforms we offer such as Boylecasino, Boylegames and Boylebingo. You can place your bets on the above platform without any restriction.




    Pete    11:34:43 am   

LOL! Brilliant, love it!!!!!!




    Louise    11:35:21 am   

Will there be anything else I may assist you with?




    Pete    11:36:25 am   

NO,. ive just withdrawn my £25, when it has been processed please close my account and remove all of my details from your databases, including emails and marketing communications. Thankyou




    Louise    11:38:27 am   

I understand that you wish to close the account due to the restriction.
In order for me to assist you, would you mind confirming a few details for your own security? What is your full address, date of birth and the answer to your secret question - What is your mother's maiden name?




    Pete    11:39:37 am   






    Louise    11:40:53 am   

Thank you. I have now closed your account as requested.




    Pete    11:41:19 am   

Thankyou



Duration: 17m 24s

Some good posts on this thread, none better than parispike's:


The off course firms need racing to the extent that it provides a smoke screen and justification for shops remaining open so that the machines can produce their guaranteed profit.  They don't want racing bets from anyone who is not a proven mug. In enforcing this policy they are prepared to exclude/limit people who may be long term losers but have either hit a short term lucky streak or don't lose at the required rate.

Until the BHA grasp this betting on racing is in terminal decline. How could it be otherwise?

can't believe that you've closed your account thus giving up the opportunity of playing boylebingo.....

Soon wont be a job for these so called traders and odds compilers. . .Great work boys trading decesioning yourself out of a job /s in the very near future.

Quite posy, Coral made a similar "gesture" to me. I told them to Pheck Off

Quite posy, Coral made a similar "gesture" to me. I told them to Pheck Off

Betfair Sportsbook are one of the worst at refusing bets and are an absolute disgrace.

"can't believe that you've closed your account thus giving up the opportunity of playing boylebingo....."

Yeah, might have been a bit rash there!  :-)

As someone has suggested, take away these stupid pathetic FOBTs for the stupid pathetic people that play them - save their sad lives first and let's get back to betting how it should be.

Going into a bookies now is like visiting a circus. Can hardly hear the racing commentary for the nonsense tunes coming off these bloody machines.

While we are on a rant, I would absolutely love Ladbrokes to go bust.

Eddie Fremantle Retweeted
John Lindsay ‏@Gastrofund 2h2 hours ago

Complimentary Buffet on Counter at local Bookies.. 'Machine Players Only'.. I kid You not

thought having b o g taken away might mean i could get more reasonable amounts on but it made no difference whatsoever , same restrictions , seems they want it every way

I couldn't care less if they get rid of BOG, as mentioned all they do is fiddle it to suit themselves anyway or come out afterwards with the line "it doesn't apply to your account". When it's got to the point you cannot get a 100 quid on a horse that is around 6/7-1 with 6 or 7 accounts there is something seriously wrong with the whole setup.


That comment regarding the buffet is not that much of a surprise though is it - that's where their priorities lie now, it is blatantly obvious.

it is a surprise that they are so blatant about it for the sake of a few butties

It's a mighty shame we don't have a Racing paper with journalists who can report a few things to their paying customers.....

Tweet Millington. And get blocked.

Agree sad situation i myself given up with tradional bookies 'so called' - ain't worth agro bhb should realize situation is disgrace....btw Dillian Whyte will stop AJ 9's for win

Paris - I don't do any of that social media stuff, if I did I would be exposing them all on a daily basis and it would take over!! I would post up their live chats, emails, screenshots of 17p maximum allowed etc etc....

Daps the only reason you're betting with these bookmakers and not here is surely because of odds ? so a mistake by them ,so you just look an arber to them and myself whatever you say.

lol - arbing on horses early - can anyone explain how anyone can do that on bf? with pennies on here?

Truth is bookies are inept, their odds compilers, risk managers, management ...the lot of them. So their default is to shut people down. There should be a rule take a bet to lose 1k from anyone or you can't take bets on that product. Should be part of their bookmaking licence terms.

Big 5 bookmakers  don't want to take bets on horses ,they won't stop until they run racing into the ground

Maybe they should stop bookmakers taking bets on horse racing full stop and have a 5% tote (no rounding, all pools) and pump so money back into the sport. Govt gets a cut, racecourses get a cut and punters get a fair deal.

racingguru
racingguru 06 Nov 15 21:56 Joined: 06 Jan 01 | Topic/replies: 1,822 | Blogger: racingguru's blog
Maybe they should stop bookmakers taking bets on horse racing full stop and have a 5% tote (no rounding, all pools) and pump so money back into the sport. Govt gets a cut, racecourses get a cut and punters get a fair deal.

Never happen.





















Too sensible.

racingguru
racingguru 06 Nov 15 21:56 Joined: 06 Jan 01 | Topic/replies: 1,822 | Blogger: racingguru's blog
Maybe they should stop bookmakers taking bets on horse racing full stop and have a 5% tote (no rounding, all pools) and pump so money back into the sport. Govt gets a cut, racecourses get a cut and punters get a fair deal.

Never happen.





















Too sensible.

13 accounts opened since August. 11 restricted. Made a loss on 9 of them but only bet best price majority of the time. My bets are 50 ew or 100 win. This takes out 500 if they win on average. I now bet completely differently to what I have for the last 18 months.
It's a disgrace that you can get banned from 200 online bookmaker accounts and then made sp only in all the shops in your area.
Basically stopping me betting even though I am actually down at least 25000 since I started.

so siralex...not the point i agree but aint they actually done you a favour long term?

Only way forward with new accounts now IMO is to bet only in multiples right from the start. L15s as has been shown on a few other threads if poss at triple odds.   Hope to hit a big one and get out.

Don't be tempted to wreck your account status just to get 1 or 2 pips better than Betfair.

"better than Betfair on singles"  I should have said

No roida because I lost 75000 over a 15 year period when I was a 'mug punter' and between Jan 2014 and April 15 I managed to get 44500 of that back. I spent 3 years trying to turn my losses into a profit and then once u actually start to turn things around u get banned.

but if you're winning plenty nowadays why dont you just use an exchange even if the odds may be slightly reduced?

Because that's where my profit margin was and also I have a full time job, I was putting on 20 bets a day of £100 and making 5% per day. I can't wait till there is plenty of liquidity on bet fair not knowing if I have been matched or just backing them all at bet fair sp.

there cant be enuff hrs in a day if you're studying to place 20 bets and working full time..

There isn't which is why I spent 3 years trying to find tipsters who could produce the goods on a long term basis. That's why I get dogs abuse on here. As if it matters how or why u bet on certain horses, all that matters is the profit at the end of the day.

so there are actual tipsters who produce good profits?

If we had access to early price roida making a profit would be easy and we wouldn't have to resort to laying fallers at 999 to secure an edge.....

its just a pity you aint in a position to lay fallers to get by then innit.

It is now totally clear that firms maintain a "restrict or take no bets" list and that they share their lists with one another. That's why losing accounts are shut.

Do the bookmakers share private details between each other on a reciprocal basis about account closures and restrictions? Surely is somebody on the inisde who posts on here who knows. You do wonder if more than coincidence.

i wouldnt have thought they did but several of them have been in mergers recently (C0ral & L@ddies, PP & Betfair) and they will obv share account info

TIME TO PROTEST PEOPLE: Shame the industry..we need 100 000 sigs to take up in parliament..
Paul Haigh step forward and help us organise.
Sick of these society leechers taking from the vulnerable and gambling addicts via the crack cocaine gaming machines
AND not playing ball with real punters..They are a complete disgrace...lets form a pressure group..take it to your politicians.
Lets get the ball rolling

how many people get closed for sp betting ? yes we all know they close accounts if you're proving sharper then their market makers and pouncing on mistakes

This just isnt about horses , i mainly bet on other sports footbal NFL Golf Darts
a good 80% of my accts have been restricted /closed , im not a massive punter , had a few decent winners but a fair few losers
The annoying thing is when you ring and ask why , you get the box standard response ' its a traders decision' and nothing more you can do
running out of friends,  family & extra bank accounts now

Would urge everyone to tweet @HbfBritain and raise account restrictions / closures with them.  Their next meeting is 23rd November so let's highlight this issue and make it the Number 1 priority for them.

Without punters the game will die.  Where's the fun in getting 50 pence on with likes of Laddies on one of the big betting races of the weekend? 

@HbfBritain

Complimentary Buffet on Counter at local Bookies.. 'Machine Players Only'.. I kid You not

How can you eat in a room with a load of sweaty old men, farting everywhere??

My missus does it every day

I am actually scared of winning a really large amount with any off course bookie. I would not bet on being paid out in full.

With apologies to anyone tired of my contributions on these threads, some of the things posted, while I agree entirely with the sentiments, are forgetting some really fundamental truths about this industry:


The BHA generate revenue from bookmaker profits, not turnover, so if the bookmaker restrictions work, they benefit racing - another reason why the gross profits deal is an obscene blight on this sport.

Even if you put aside the bookmaker advertising, and the probability in my view, that William Hill are shareholders in the RP's parent company centurycom, The Racing Post have a profit sharing betting app with William Hill and Ladbrokes - they are a bookmaker in all but name.

The rest of the media platforms rely on the patronage of the bookmaking industry for revenue, and with a few honourable exceptions, most of the people working in the media are also working for the bookmaking industry on the side.


So no one, repeat no one, is ever going to make a stand for punters on this issue. We either bend over and accept the shameless misrepresentation of the bookmaking industry's commercial policies by a corrupt and complicit media in what is little short of institutionalised collusive fraud, or punters, as a group, have to do something about it ourselves - as everyone is bored of me saying, businesses built on lies are not difficult to expose, and the notion that, if you bet with bookmakers and win you won't be able to bet any more, getting in to the mainstream, is kryptonite to them, imho.

No one in this industry is going to make a stand against bookmaker profitability - quite brilliantly, they have leveraged themselves into a position where every last sector relies on their continued success in removing our money...

Hi millhouse your above a good post and explains much does our collective apathy enable these poor practices and what is the self help solution.Yesturday I had a look at the twitter page for the BHA group and there did not appear to be much reference to restricted accounts so I used the e mail given. Within an hour I received a reply which included the below.

"I anticipate the subject being revisited at our second meeting, on November 23: it will come under “matters arising” from our first meeting but may well also have a slot of its own.Account restrictions and closures constitute the majority of correspondence received by HBF from the betting public to date, and we are in no doubt as to its significance to many".

Many of us will have experienced the examples given in the OP on this thread its prob still a minority of the many who use bookmakers but an ever increasing one and I would ask those not affected today to consider what might happen tomorrow. If we worked collectively then changes would be made but guidance is needed.

The most disturbing theme that emerges from many is the belief that traders are sharing information about non-profitable customers.
If you use the exchanges then any idiot could see through betting habits those who should be avoided.
If you show that you keep to ground rules like betting to a staking plan resisting many handicaps and looking for value/beating SP EVEN IF YOU ARE IN THE RED then you would be considered not suitable. The traders cant include so called Arbers as the liquidity is just not there.

Millhouse - I understand what you are saying and how they don't want winners as it affects the bottom line BUT how many mugs are getting restricted who have opened an account and had a couple of winners?


I have now just had Totesport account gone as offered a maximum £1, previously had 6 bets with one winner at 11/2 - to a huge profit of £77.50.


The trouble with HBF is the members imo, I will give them a chance to try and do something but most of them are getting paid by Bookmakers and we all know how the gravy train works in this industry. The poster who came on here and is a member at least seems to want to try and make a difference but I really cannot see anyone else helping too much.

hi I have been shut down by spoilsports c  ls and others and I understand my selective bets are not economic and the post were not sympathetic at all .Also tom segal is no longer very good and I hear he has a job with lads is this true?.Very  few pundits seem independent Hugh taylor atr is the best tipster in poor racing only one problem cant get the odds

If there were no fobts in the shops ,there would be more railway stations than betting shops.

be interesting to see a table of bookmakers accounts showing the percentage restricted, spoils and one not too far away from here must be comfortably over 90%.

troytown, sure way to get shut down is to keep trying to back Hugh Taylor's tips..they presume everyone's arbing those

thanks Duncan Idaho I now understand a lot they just monitor the source of sel .What beats me tom segal  tips lost £900 to a tenner and they restrict bets surely they would want to lay?

doesn't matter if they win or lose troytown, the fact that you have shown yourself to have the nous to follow someone shows them you are not a completely gormless muppet, and your account is therefore restricted.  traders decision.

Has there ever been a trainer or well known owner restricted presumably they will bet armed with info that the majority won't have,or are we to believe they do it all for fun and enjoy giving money away.