Donald McCain is completely gone now.

Pauling???

Feck me what kind of a business plan is that - having 50 horses from the same owner..

Who was his mentor at the Newmarket business school...

Luca Cumani..

Wow , just read this , a hammer blow to any stable . He'll find it hard to recover from that..

Surprised Tim Leslie hasn't gone as well - he owned McCains better horses for me

Never mind I may buy a car from the dealership in Southport....

Do they sell beach buggies...

kim bailey will get some

Who are the horses going to?

Most of them are fit for the abbatoir, he can thank Tom Malone for alot of them shrewd purchases.

Anything decent (and thats not many) will be on the ferry to Carlow.  100 x av.50k purchases and you dont get a sniff at a big festival - amazed it took this long.

Really sad how this yard has gone downhill so quickly but he has spent a ton of money in the past few years - mostly from the Rooneys - on a very average bunch of horses. Consistently poor judgement looks like it will cost him dear.

Tom Malone bought plenty for Rooney

Whose the grade 1 hurdler and the great grand national prospect he thinks he's got in the stable.

His association with two massively underperforming (by purchasing budget) yards in Russell and Mccain tells you all you need to know.  Master of spinning the odd good one mind you.

I wouldnt send Malone to the shop for milk.

is he still a so called betfair ambassador ?

Oct 12, 2015 -- 9:24PM, mincer11 wrote:

I wouldnt send Malone to the shop for milk.

yes

I know it doesn't work like this but can't really be many other "Grade 1" horses in the collection

I was assuming it was Konig Dax who finished 5L ahead of Douvan in France. But like I said, doesn't really work like that

There is another split looming - whether he makes a comeback or not, Jason Maguire is the Rooneys' racing manager.

i dont think jason will be back

posy

it could be betfair has got him in this situation he was doing quite well without them.

i have just been told pipe and richards may be getting some

good grief who in there right mind would send a horse to nicky richards ?

good grief who in there right mind would send a horse to nicky richards ?

Not Nicky but Keith.

Didnt Mr Rooney remove all his horses from Mr Ewarts yard in the last six months? I think you'll find Donald did a lot better with the Rooney horses than Ewart ever did. Now there's a trainer who has it all to prove with the facilities he's got{arguably the best in Scotland} relative to Donald who i might add always turned his horses out immaculately unlike Mr Ewarts who seem to have more bandages than your local hospital

Horses going to Gordon Elliott, Ben Pauling, Kim Bailey, David Pipe and Philip Hobbs apparently.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/racing/article-3269821/Donald-McCain-stunned-Paul-Claire-Rooney-remove-entire-string-horses-Cheshire-yard.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Would be interesting to know what part Jason Maguire has played in all this but given he's quoted as Rooney's spokesperson in the Mail piece, you have to assume he wasn't vehemently opposed to the move.

i believe Jason is or has become Mr Rooney's Racing Manager, General Custer might be able to confirm this

Ignorance cost him here. He was told by numerous jockeys and vets that his horses were sick but ran them regardless. Once they looked well, they must be well type attitude. The stable was also rife with drugs for an long period of time. Not suggesting Donald was into drugs himself but it would explain why he kept running them even when his horses were dropping out like stones ..............

FANTASTIC NEWS
BEEN WAITING FOR THIS DAY TO COME AND IT FINALLY HAS...MCCAIN ON HIS FKIN KNEES NOW, CAN FKIN GROVEL

WD MR ROONEY

i am surprised hobbs wants them.

Oct 12, 2015 -- 9:12PM, Try My Best wrote:

Whose the grade 1 hurdler and the great grand national prospect he thinks he's got in the stable.

THERE ISN'T 1 ONLY IN DONALDS DREAMS
SAD AND FKIN DELUDED INDIVIDUAL IN NEED OF A MAJOR REALITY CHECK BOOM BOOM SURE HAS GOT 1 NOW PMSL

at least they will be well handicapped.

Good point Ib , then everyone will say I told you so. Happened to a trainer over here a few years ago . His horses ran like drains due to a virus ,became very well handicapped , you know the rest ...

THERE ISN'T A VIRUS, HORSES ARE COMING STRAIGHT OUT OF THERE AND RUNNING AND WINNING FOR NEW TRAINERS WITHIN LESS THAN A MONTH OF LEAVING

You can't blame them, can you? I've not had a bet on a McCain horse for almost a year. Backed one of his at what used to be his favourite stomping ground - Bangor. The horse was running in a NH flat race and went from travelling really nicely to emptying in a matter of strides. It made me think that there was/is some kind of virus in the yard or the horses are being over-trained or a combination of both and I've seen nothing since then to make me change this long held opinion.

There had to be some sort of virus. How else to you explain them stopping as if shot turning for home. Every second runner was just falling in a hole. That wasn't the case 4,5,6 7 years ago.

He trains them too hard, he had help 4,5,6,7 years ago.

VIRUS MIGHT BE AN EXCUSE FOR A SEASON OR HALF A SEASON
OVER THE LAST 2/3 YEARS MOST OF THE HORSES THAT HAVE BEEN MOVED FROM HIS YARD HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR THEIR NEW YARD FAIRLY QUICKLY, IE THEY ARE HEALTHY HORSES

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES FOR THIS FAILING TRAINER OTHER THAN HIS OWN LACK OF ABILITY TO TRAIN RACEHORSES
THAT IS THE TRUTH

Oct 12, 2015 -- 10:43PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:

He trains them too hard, he had help 4,5,6,7 years ago.

CORRECT

The horse was running in a NH flat race and went from travelling really nicely to emptying in a matter of strides.

Yep. Pretty much standard for his horses over the last couple of years.

Oct 12, 2015 -- 10:07PM, Topbrand wrote:

i believe Jason is or has become Mr Rooney's Racing Manager, General Custer might be able to confirm this

yes he is rooneys racing manager

Oct 12, 2015 -- 10:08PM, wondersobright wrote:

FANTASTIC NEWS BEEN WAITING FOR THIS DAY TO COME AND IT FINALLY HAS...MCCAIN ON HIS FKIN KNEES NOW, CAN FKIN GROVELWD MR ROONEY

wondersobright 12 Oct 15 22:49 

    Oct 12, 2015 -- 10:43PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:


    He trains them too hard, he had help 4,5,6,7 years ago.


CORRECT
-------

Who was the, "help"?

- or are you intimating that the question should be - What was the, "help"?

Wonder why do you dislike him so much?

Steamship 12 Oct 15 23:21 
Wonder why do you dislike him so much?

I can't be the only one 'wonder'ing that. Starts a new thread on him every other day, but none on the other awful/underwhelming/average (take your pick)trainers out there.

What's your personal grievance with McCain?

onlooker    12 Oct 15 23:21 
wondersobright 12 Oct 15 22:49 

    Oct 12, 2015 -- 10:43PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:


    He trains them too hard, he had help 4,5,6,7 years ago.


CORRECT
-------

Who was the, "help"?

- or are you intimating that the question should be - What was the, "help"?




His father, Ginger, obviously

Saw himself and that agent in action when selling a horse at the sales at a famous racecourse.The rags that were supposedly bought through the ring for x.What a laugh,bought outside for twenty,through the ring for 42.not saying he did anything wrong but he paid high for some rags.

You absolutely MUST be joking !

Ginger was NOTHING but a 'one-trick pony ' - who had a forte for, and could only train, Grand National horses.

A fact he would often acknowledge himself.

How many horses did he ever train to win 2 mile Hurdle races - let alone competitive 2 mile Handicap Hurdles?

He only started having a few more winners - other than out and out staying Chasers - in his latter years ... when, coincidentally - Young Donald had joined him as Assistant Trainer - and, ironically, almost everyone was saying that those winners were ....'Because, we all know, DONALD is REALLY training them'. 

I'm rubbing the red rum £1.99 statue,for his luck to change

Currently sidelined rider Jason Maguire is stable jockey to McCain and also retained by the Rooneys.

Asked if his relationship with McCain would be affected, Maguire was quoted as saying: "It is obviously very disappointing the ways things have happened.

"I honestly don't know what will happen."

Maguire said the owners wanted to "spread the risk" and the horses are expected to join existing Rooney trainers such as Gordon Elliott and Ben Pauling, as well as Kim Bailey, David Pipe and Philip Hobbs.

Serious, do people on here just type the first thing that pops into their head or make sweeping assumptions just for the sake of it?

gutfeeling     12 Oct 15 20:36 
Might have done better had he learnt from his old man instead of courting media attention for every winner that his dad got ready for him.

I thought it was common knowledge that Donald Jr was effectively training them towards the end of the Ginger's career and that includes the National win whilst the licence was still in his dad's name. He was also more of a PR type and did what was needed to bring owners to the yard too and did his dad "get ready for him" the 500 or so winners he's had in the past 5 seasons, or the National winner Donald Jr had after his dad retired, or what about the Supreme Novice winner at the Cheltenham Festival or the Galway Hurdle winner?

Presumably his dad also "got ready for him" the 2 Chester Cup winners with a 1-2 in one of those seasons and the Northumberland Plate winner too, as his dad was well known for his prowess on the Flat, wasn't he?

homefortea     12 Oct 15 20:49 
Feck me what kind of a business plan is that - having 50 horses from the same owner..

Who was his mentor at the Newmarket business school...

Luca Cumani..

So what exactly was he supposed to do, turn horses and owners away and have empty boxes?

Presumably using your (lack of) logic, Roger Varian should have refused all of the horses from Cumani's yard too?

And what must Aidan O'Brien be thinking of, having all of those horses owned by Coolmore?

The problem McCain has now is that he's gonna look a right numpty if the horses suddenly start winning for their new trainers

daniel kubler may get some horses

The question surely is why now when the season about to start.

looks like its going to be bad for north and scottish NH racing if all the rooney horse are heading south

Might be a bit easier to make a few quid though without having to try guess whether one of Donalds are going to stop as if shot or not.

Might be a bit easier to make a few quid though without having to try guess whether one of Donalds are going to stop as if shot or not.

Not that long ago he trained Bourne for the Betfair Racing Club and won a couple of biggish handicaps.In a way quite ironic if some horses go to Kim Bailey who himself was very much out in the cold for a number of years.

For any business to lose that level of support is crippling and I'm staggered at some of the comments on here. I don't know McCain at all. Is he a good person? Who knows. Is he a bad person? Almost certainly not, but if you've lost money punting on his horses then there's a very simple solution - don't.

Idiots.

There certainly seems to be some personal animosity about.
Anybody like to say why ?

Been a long time coming.  Many people have posted on this forum in the last couple of years with their observations regarding the marked decline in fortunes of the McCain yard. Am amazed the Rooneys kept faith with McCain (and Ewart) for as long as they did.

Can't think of a decent horse in the McCain stable. That's a considerable shift from the position four or five years ago.  Was surprised to see McCain retain his position as one of the Talking Trainers in Mark Howard's excellent "One Jump Ahead" for 2015/16 and can only guess that Howard included him out of a misguided sense of loyalty.

Oct 13, 2015 -- 11:55AM, salmon spray wrote:

There certainly seems to be some personal animosity about.Anybody like to say why ?

some owners weren't happy with him 2-3 years ago and pulled the plug because of it, mr rooney is just the icing on the mccain/owners cake

no personal animosity, GL to him he will need all of it as getting to 50 winners will be like shovelling sh1t uphill this ssn with what he's got

and yep spot on cash is king

could well be the best thing to happen to donald, get back to basics and stop trying to find a star at the sales

He should dissacoiate himself from Malone, thats the root of the problem.

elise,mincer agree completely

You would think that people like the Rooney,s that were astute enough to amass a fortune would after a short time think "wait a mo" this doesn,t look too good and call a halt,or would you.

racing is a bit like the emperors new cloths barney

people spend 80k on a 2 / 3 year old and dream for a while that it's a champion hurdler

once it hits the track they hold on to that hope even though it won't win a bumper the usual - needs more time - a bit slow and needs further - will be better over fences - has had a few setbacks etc come into play, the fact is plenty of horses never make the track, few win and very few are top motch

having 40 or 50 animals just increases the chance of having another bad one

I have that impression too Salmon Spray.
I hope Donald gets back on track soon. I wish him well.

I certainly wish him well. Ive no problem with him at all. Actually have felt sorry for him for years now.

To many good horses lost there form for some reason or another

His yard reminds me a bit of how Len Lungo's used to be in the north or is similar to John Ferguson's now where they can either be fairly dominant in the north until coming up against some of the the more powerful yards in the south at the big meetings, as was the case with Lungo or start off winning easily with little competition in their first few runs until they are upped in class against better opposition.

I still can't really think of too many big name owners with McCain though bar Trevor Hemmings and maybe Tim Leslie and he's done fairly well for both of them with horses like Ballabriggs, Cloudy Lane, Overturn and Peddler's Cross.

alistar whillans,ian jardine and keith dalgleish are the scottish trainers the rooneys are using

got to mention this he said quote the horse has got bigger and seems quicker  ran 2 in champion behind a legend beaten 1 1/2 lenghts so decides to put over fences having said its got quicker over the summer , its pulling steptoe around now

If you mean Peddler's Cross black bush, if it stayed hurdling and at 2 miles then wouldn't it always be up against that same legend in the big races anyway? Presumably they went chasing due to the size of the horse and also wanting to avoid Hurricane Fly.

On the other matter, I still think it's a bit of an odds decision by the Rooney's though considering since the 2011-12 season McCain has apparently trained 83 winners for them with 40 of those coming last season, so numerically things were going the right way anyway.

I know sometimes a fresh start and new scenery can help horses and rekindle attitudes if need be or keep them stimulated, plus if you have the bulk of your horses in one yard and that yard has a problem then your whole string might be affected by that, so moving some can make sense but why move all of them?

^^^^^^ I assume this tool is saying McCain was hard done by ^^^^
Looking for an argument for an hour i suppose, the usual nonsense.

Was on holiday and saw Many Clouds Ballabriggs and Hedgehunter in a field recently...

Happy Days...

Says the d1ckhead mincer11 who seemingly doesn't know what the word odd means.

The fact that they were gonna move some then after a plea by McCain moved them all suggests to me that things may have got heated and they told McCain to go **** himself.

agree with above,maguire stated in post last week he had no idea of when/If he would return,he has to think of future without riding and this is/will be a great job.To me the inclusion of kim bailey/Gordon Elliott(not so much) as trainers to benefit from split and Jason riding for them will obviously not help previous arrangements.

It's almost like MJK was there in the room

I'm not disputing what you are saying MJK because I don't know either way but do you have a source regarding they were originally only going to remove some?

I was under the impression seaside dreamer that Jason Maguire was retained by the Rooney's as their first choice jockey and if that's the case, would it really matter where their horses were trained?

its jason that is placing the rooney horses with there trainers

One positive about McCain is that he could place bad horses to win. That's how hes done so well, particularly early season before the real big guns get going. But you have to feel sorry for him too!!!!

Remember someone else may have been buying horses he had to train and when they are expensive purchases the trainer gets the blame if they are mediocre. As we all know many of the young horses have won Irish point to points which are rag races but you win one and the horse is sold for a packet. So its not all down to Donald im sure he has had to try to train a few pigs in lipstick too.  Try and tell that to owners who have shelled out a fortune, not an easy job!!!!!

Again though general custer, do you have a source for that claim? Or do you mean he's doing it after the decision has already been made to move them?

I wish him well and hope he bounces back

Ginger bounced back a few times.

It could be Jason did not fancy all the trips up and down the Motorway.

Kim Bailey's yard is 10 minutes from his home.

Though it does make sense to split horses around.

mccain still has a string of over 70 ? he has 2 big owners tim leslie, and the whatleys, HE DID HAVE A VIRUS, I don't know how long its affected the yard, but you cannot blame the rooneys..even big owners look at the bills ...
CASH IS KING
the excellent MARK HOWARD book? im sorry its a poor excuse for a n.h. book imo, he let the cat out the bag when the Henderson string was not included because he admitted he went off the trainers booklet? he also only ever talks about the big owners (who we'll never get a price for on debut)his tipping is poor also imo.

The large number of winners that McCain trained for the Rooneys is something of a red herring. They were nearly all class 4-6 races. Given the amounts the Rooneys were spending on their purchases, they were expecting to win graded races and big handicaps with some if not all of the horses.

If McCain was involved in purchasing decisions in addition to his training responsibilities then little wonder the Rooneys have decided the expensive experiment has run its course.

Oct 13, 2015 -- 9:06PM, ima_mazed66 wrote:

I'm not disputing what you are saying MJK because I don't know either way but do you have a source regarding they were originally only going to remove some?I was under the impression seaside dreamer that Jason Maguire was retained by the Rooney's as their first choice jockey and if that's the case, would it really matter where their horses were trained?

Just reading between the lines. Majority(I actually thought it was all until second reading) of horses being taken out until McCain made a plea to keep certain ones according to the article. Then all of a sudden they're all been taken out. Not hard to imagine an argument ensuing resulting in either the owner getting fed up and saying right they're all coming out or indeed McCain saying right if you're not leavng me x,y,z then you're better off taking them all.

Was the new Golden Boy when he first started Training i cant believe how his fortunes have taken a dive these past couple of years.His confidence must be rock bottom right now.

i've commented several times about the lack of success (relative to the money spent on buying horses) that the rooneys have had with mccain so not at all surprised however i'm not sure they'll do any better with other trainers, although a few may benefit from being ridden in a non-mccain non-maguire way, although again i personally prefer horses to be ridden from the front, it's not for all of them

the rooneys have spent fortunes on purchases from ireland when perhaps if they'd spent some in france the results would have been better, my current sire of preference, saint des saints has a runner today dolores delightful in worc 2.20...

as for mccain he said himself he probably shouldn't have had so many from the same owner but had always wanted to be in position to buy that 'type of horse at the sales' - maybe now he can lower his sights and get back to what he did best...

what a shame from being a yard you could bet on with confidence to one that you seriously avoid, they have been struggling to win this last few years just running out of gas for whatever reason.
Losing that many horses means losing jobs and the like I hope he turns it around as I used to like the stable a lot and found the horses ran straight
but virus or whatever something just wasn't right.
shame.

It's tough on all concerned. As mentioned above its a real shame

McCain was a winners man.ie hexham and Sedgefield were as good as haydock and Cheltenham etc. If you are spending Rooney type money that was definitely not the plan.

Maybe just maybe, the Rooneys don't have a clue what they are doing and bought the wrong horses.
The horses they have had outside of the McCain yard have exactly been staggeringly succesful, have they?
Just a thought, folks.

If you presumably meant haven't been staggeringly successful Barton Bank and that was just a typo then I entirely agree.

Plus it's not just enough to say the Rooney's have spent a lot of money on horses for very little return unless you do the breakdown of the money spent and not just the final figure. If for example they have spend £1m but that totals say 100 horses, then the average price isn't going to be anything too spectacular is it?

Yes, I meant haven't been staggeringly successful. It's late!
If they had 100 horses for that money, it would be worse than having 50 given they all require training costs and upkeep to be paid.

its a bit like a personal trainer in a gym send him 20 clients to train , then suddenly , another 40 join , you start getting a poor service and not the same personal touch !
horses are exactly the same as athletes ! you start to bring in extra staff who don't really have the midus touch ! my own view is for all the money they have spent , they don't seam to know as much as they should , more money than sense !  horses are vastly over priced here ! imo !
whats the point of payed 50k for a horse that runs in 2k races ?  times that by 50
never going to make a profit , better to buy qaulity not quantity !
not nice to see this as ordinary people who have familys to feed will loose their jobs !